Cade + for Wagner

[Snakebites]

Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

You don't speak for the majority.

Plenty of people, myself included would have Cade > Wagner

That was to be the poll. I think interesting.

I have Wagner > Cade. Easily by at least a 1st to close the gap.

Well, the poll results are certainly interesting.

Not in the way you expected though.

[Ducklett]

We could argue Cade vs Franz til we are blue in the face. Cade is a bit better on offense and Franz is wildly better on defense. The Pistons need a 1A guy and Cade is more likely to end up being that. Honestly I think the conversation is a wash.

What blows my mind is the AB vs Ausar part of the conversation. They are basically the same exact player but one shoots the 3 nearly 20% better than the other one and is a full calendar year younger (i think they were born on the same day if i remember right). And that is the one that people think is the worse player...

[JennetteMcCurdy]

If Cade and Wagner are equal, then whoever the HOBO is better not give Cade a max deal. Because I certainly don’t think Orlando is giving Wagner and his 28% 3 point shooting a max deal…..

[Residual-Heat]

If Cade and Wagner are equal, then whoever the HOBO is better not give Cade a max deal. Because I certainly don’t think Orlando is giving Wagner and his 28% 3 point shooting a max deal…..

Even with Franz's miserable year from 3 he still has a slightly higher career 3pt% than Cade.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

If Cade and Wagner are equal, then whoever the HOBO is better not give Cade a max deal. Because I certainly don’t think Orlando is giving Wagner and his 28% 3 point shooting a max deal…..

Even with Franz's miserable year from 3 he still has a slightly higher career 3pt% than Cade.

The human head weighs eight pounds.

[Snakebites]

If Cade and Wagner are equal, then whoever the HOBO is better not give Cade a max deal. Because I certainly don’t think Orlando is giving Wagner and his 28% 3 point shooting a max deal…..

Even with Franz's miserable year from 3 he still has a slightly higher career 3pt% than Cade.

Sure.

And I'm sure Magic fans are hoping that this year was an anomaly.

But you can't expect another team to value him based on the assumption that this is an anomaly.

Cade is more valuable TO THE PISTONS than Franz going forward. We can talk about Ausar and Black but at the end of the day I don't think you're getting enough separation there to make up for the difference in value between those draft picks. It's simply not even close.

The Magic are a better team in a much better situation than the Pistons. This trade would put them in an immensely better position while being a major loss to the Pistons already struggling rebuilding efforts. I think this is pretty straightforward.

[orlando_joe]

I still like my trade…

To Pistons: Franz Wagner + Black + #18

To Magic: Cade + Ausar + Rights to Sarr

Pistons: get proven centerpiece to build around
Duren
Stewart
Wagner
Ivey
Black | Sasser
Plus #18

Magic: complete their lineup with Cade as final piece
WCJ | Sarr (when ready)
Banchero | Isaac
Thompson | Jett | Houstan
Suggs
Cade | Anthony
Plus a ton of assets still.

Wagner > Cade > Thompson > Black

Putting this idea to the board for a vote.

do not pistons have a better shot at pick 5 then #1?

[orlando_joe]

If Cade and Wagner are equal, then whoever the HOBO is better not give Cade a max deal. Because I certainly don’t think Orlando is giving Wagner and his 28% 3 point shooting a max deal…..

Even with Franz's miserable year from 3 he still has a slightly higher career 3pt% than Cade.

Sure.

And I'm sure Magic fans are hoping that this year was an anomaly.

But you can't expect another team to value him based on the assumption that this is an anomaly.

Cade is more valuable TO THE PISTONS than Franz going forward. We can talk about Ausar and Black but at the end of the day I don't think you're getting enough separation there to make up for the difference in value between those draft picks. It's simply not even close.

The Magic are a better team in a much better situation than the Pistons. This trade would put them in an immensely better position while being a major loss to the Pistons already struggling rebuilding efforts. I think this is pretty straightforward.

not to mention how much better franz fg% overall is ...and his defense...and then the position he plays...
there are soooo many guards out there
on top of cade missing 100 games best season missed 25% of his games

[Residual-Heat]

If Cade and Wagner are equal, then whoever the HOBO is better not give Cade a max deal. Because I certainly don’t think Orlando is giving Wagner and his 28% 3 point shooting a max deal…..

Even with Franz's miserable year from 3 he still has a slightly higher career 3pt% than Cade.

Sure.

And I'm sure Magic fans are hoping that this year was an anomaly.

But you can't expect another team to value him based on the assumption that this is an anomaly.

Cade is more valuable TO THE PISTONS than Franz going forward. We can talk about Ausar and Black but at the end of the day I don't think you're getting enough separation there to make up for the difference in value between those draft picks. It's simply not even close.

The Magic are a better team in a much better situation than the Pistons. This trade would put them in an immensely better position while being a major loss to the Pistons already struggling rebuilding efforts. I think this is pretty straightforward.

I am only responding to that comment about their next contract and the reference to Wagner's shooting numbers.

I did not comment on the trade, and did not vote. I have no comment about that because I know nothing about Sarr.

[Snakebites]

Even with Franz's miserable year from 3 he still has a slightly higher career 3pt% than Cade.

Sure.

And I'm sure Magic fans are hoping that this year was an anomaly.

But you can't expect another team to value him based on the assumption that this is an anomaly.

Cade is more valuable TO THE PISTONS than Franz going forward. We can talk about Ausar and Black but at the end of the day I don't think you're getting enough separation there to make up for the difference in value between those draft picks. It's simply not even close.

The Magic are a better team in a much better situation than the Pistons. This trade would put them in an immensely better position while being a major loss to the Pistons already struggling rebuilding efforts. I think this is pretty straightforward.

not to mention how much better franz fg% overall is ...and his defense...and then the position he plays...
there are soooo many guards out there
on top of cade missing 100 games best season missed 25% of his games

Fine then. Keep Franz and don’t trade for Cade.

Keep in mind Franz doesn’t just have to be more valuable than Cade. He has to be more valuable than Cade to the tune of trading out of the lottery from the number one pick. Pick one doesn’t have the value it normally does, but neither does 18.

Clearly the majority disagrees with the valuation here. This is one of the more one sided polls I’ve seen here.

[BDM22]

I still like my trade…

To Pistons: Franz Wagner + Black + #18

To Magic: Cade + Ausar + Rights to Sarr

Pistons: get proven centerpiece to build around
Duren
Stewart
Wagner
Ivey
Black | Sasser
Plus #18

Magic: complete their lineup with Cade as final piece
WCJ | Sarr (when ready)
Banchero | Isaac
Thompson | Jett | Houstan
Suggs
Cade | Anthony
Plus a ton of assets still.

Wagner > Cade > Thompson > Black

Putting this idea to the board for a vote.

do not pistons have a better shot at pick 5 then #1?

It was a hypothetical for a situation where the Pistons landed Sarr as posed by a poster in another thread. Obviously yes, if you went by likelihood, every team has poor odds at getting #1. Pistons just have the top odds (along with WAS and CHA).

[Slim Charless]

Sure.

And I'm sure Magic fans are hoping that this year was an anomaly.

But you can't expect another team to value him based on the assumption that this is an anomaly.

Cade is more valuable TO THE PISTONS than Franz going forward. We can talk about Ausar and Black but at the end of the day I don't think you're getting enough separation there to make up for the difference in value between those draft picks. It's simply not even close.

The Magic are a better team in a much better situation than the Pistons. This trade would put them in an immensely better position while being a major loss to the Pistons already struggling rebuilding efforts. I think this is pretty straightforward.

not to mention how much better franz fg% overall is ...and his defense...and then the position he plays...
there are soooo many guards out there
on top of cade missing 100 games best season missed 25% of his games

Fine then. Keep Franz and don’t trade for Cade.

Clearly the majority disagrees with the valuation here. This is one of the more one sided polls I’ve seen here.

By far. This was being argued about in another thread where most ppl there told Wolveswin that he's WAY off on this. He disagreed....to say the least.

I personally think the trade is fine...as long as you remove the Sarr portion of it. That's just nuts. Sarr is going 1 most likely so you can't just say the rights to him-its gonna be giving up the #1 overall pick. #2 at worst lol.


Cade+Ausar for Franz+Black+18 seems like a good fit to me. You can even remove the #18 if need be. But you guys adding #1 for a swap is silly.

[Ducklett]

not to mention how much better franz fg% overall is ...and his defense...and then the position he plays...
there are soooo many guards out there
on top of cade missing 100 games best season missed 25% of his games

Fine then. Keep Franz and don’t trade for Cade.

Clearly the majority disagrees with the valuation here. This is one of the more one sided polls I’ve seen here.

By far. This was being argued about in another thread where most ppl there told Wolveswin that he's WAY off on this. He disagreed....to say the least.

I personally think the trade is fine...as long as you remove the Sarr portion of it. That's just nuts. Sarr is going 1 most likely so you can't just say the rights to him-its gonna be giving up the #1 overall pick. #2 at worst lol.


Cade+Ausar for Franz+Black+18 seems like a good fit to me. You can even remove the #18 if need be. But you guys adding #1 for a swap is silly.

I have a feeling that if you posted Cade/Ausar for Franz/Black/18 that this poll would be inverted.

[orlando_joe]

not to mention how much better franz fg% overall is ...and his defense...and then the position he plays...
there are soooo many guards out there
on top of cade missing 100 games best season missed 25% of his games

Fine then. Keep Franz and don’t trade for Cade.

Clearly the majority disagrees with the valuation here. This is one of the more one sided polls I’ve seen here.

By far. This was being argued about in another thread where most ppl there told Wolveswin that he's WAY off on this. He disagreed....to say the least.

I personally think the trade is fine...as long as you remove the Sarr portion of it. That's just nuts. Sarr is going 1 most likely so you can't just say the rights to him-its gonna be giving up the #1 overall pick. #2 at worst lol.


Cade+Ausar for Franz+Black+18 seems like a good fit to me. You can even remove the #18 if need be. But you guys adding #1 for a swap is silly.

no problem but the poll is not franz vs cade or the poll would not look that way

[BDM22]

Fine then. Keep Franz and don’t trade for Cade.

Clearly the majority disagrees with the valuation here. This is one of the more one sided polls I’ve seen here.

By far. This was being argued about in another thread where most ppl there told Wolveswin that he's WAY off on this. He disagreed....to say the least.

I personally think the trade is fine...as long as you remove the Sarr portion of it. That's just nuts. Sarr is going 1 most likely so you can't just say the rights to him-its gonna be giving up the #1 overall pick. #2 at worst lol.


Cade+Ausar for Franz+Black+18 seems like a good fit to me. You can even remove the #18 if need be. But you guys adding #1 for a swap is silly.

I have a feeling that if you posted Cade/Ausar for Franz/Black/18 that this poll would be inverted.

Perhaps, but not as far. The reality is that Cade/Ausar for Franz/Black with no picks is probably the only iteration here that would have a relatively split view of who gets the best deal and would not be offensive in the way it is when you add in a #18 for #1 overall swap lol.

Obviously it's all just a random discussion that will never happen. Teams swapping comparable highly drafted young players in deals after having them on the team for a few years like this is incredibly rare (I'm trying to even think of one instance and failing). Teams have too much invested in their guys.

[orlando_joe]

Sure.

And I'm sure Magic fans are hoping that this year was an anomaly.

But you can't expect another team to value him based on the assumption that this is an anomaly.

Cade is more valuable TO THE PISTONS than Franz going forward. We can talk about Ausar and Black but at the end of the day I don't think you're getting enough separation there to make up for the difference in value between those draft picks. It's simply not even close.

The Magic are a better team in a much better situation than the Pistons. This trade would put them in an immensely better position while being a major loss to the Pistons already struggling rebuilding efforts. I think this is pretty straightforward.

not to mention how much better franz fg% overall is ...and his defense...and then the position he plays...
there are soooo many guards out there
on top of cade missing 100 games best season missed 25% of his games

Fine then. Keep Franz and don’t trade for Cade.

Keep in mind Franz doesn’t just have to be more valuable than Cade. He has to be more valuable than Cade to the tune of trading out of the lottery from the number one pick. Pick one doesn’t have the value it normally does, but neither does 18.

Clearly the majority disagrees with the valuation here. This is one of the more one sided polls I’ve seen here.

no problem ..way to many guards to be had without breaking up paolo,franz and suggs ...way to many..guards are all over the place
trading a great 2 way that was 4th in most ast per game for sf at 22 yrs old ...no problem

[ConSarnit]

Shouldn't the poll be:

Cade for Franz, what does DET need to add? With options of:

top 5 pick
lotto protected pick
late 1st
nothing
ORL owes value

Wouldn't a poll like this do a better job of determining that value gap between Cade and Franz? All of the other stuff (Black, Ausur, the picks) are just convoluting everything.

[Slim Charless]

not to mention how much better franz fg% overall is ...and his defense...and then the position he plays...
there are soooo many guards out there
on top of cade missing 100 games best season missed 25% of his games

Fine then. Keep Franz and don’t trade for Cade.

Keep in mind Franz doesn’t just have to be more valuable than Cade. He has to be more valuable than Cade to the tune of trading out of the lottery from the number one pick. Pick one doesn’t have the value it normally does, but neither does 18.

Clearly the majority disagrees with the valuation here. This is one of the more one sided polls I’ve seen here.

no problem ..way to many guards to be had without breaking up paolo,franz and suggs ...way to many..guards are all over the place
trading a great 2 way that was 4th in most ast per game for sf at 22 yrs old ...no problem

Great 2 way seems strong. He's OK in both fields. I'd argue his defense is helped out by playing with actual elite defenders like Suggs and Issac.

[Snakebites]

Shouldn't the poll be:

Cade for Franz, what does DET need to add? With options of:

top 5 pick
lotto protected pick
late 1st
nothing
ORL owes value

Wouldn't a poll like this do a better job of determining that value gap between Cade and Franz? All of the other stuff (Black, Ausur, the picks) are just convoluting everything.

I’m not all that convinced a swap of the two makes sense conceptually for both teams either.

Value aside I don’t see what such a deal accomplishes for the Pistons. We have other guards but none with the primarily ball handler potential Cade has.

I can’t imagine the Magic are all that eager to break up their own core either, even though I think the value of this particular deal greatly favors them.

[BDM22]

This Wolveswin trade idea reminds me of this classic Wolveswin gem from earlier this season....

Cade for Black makes a lot of sense to me.

I know, Magic will like their guy. Pistons too. But…

Magic only do this if they think Cade on their roster in their situation pulls a “Markkanen.” Magic wouldn’t be trading for Cade of Pistons - rather Cade of Magic (see Markkanen of Jazz).

Plus, if Magic feel any player on Pistons roster is win-now upgrade (exclude Thompson) they too get baked into trade.

Black + least win-now salary ballast + pick (if needed)

FOR

Cade + most win now player Magic like

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