Make an offer for Kyle Kuzma

[HadAnEffectHere]

Easily the most overrated player in the NBA and it's kind of inexplicable how overrated he is.

He cannot draw fouls at all and he's not an above average shooter and that kills his efficiency. Defensively, he's not great.

[brackdan70]

Personally I don’t see Kuzma as having a ton of value. He’s a tweener forward who can score a lot of points on below-average efficiency if you put the ball in his hands a lot and don’t care about winning. He’s not a good defender or 3pt shooter so he’s not a good fit as a complementary player. His best role on an actually good team is probably bench scorer, but he makes too much $ to be a bench player.

Tweener Forward? He is the same size as Siakam, John Collins, and Aaron Gordon. All 4 guys even play moments of small ball 5. They are nowhere NEAR tweener forwards.

Too much money? He makes the same as guys like Grayson Allen, Lu Dort, Duncan Robinson, Norman Powell, Brogdon, Sexton, etc. All Borderline starters/6th men.

All those players are head and shoulders above Kuzma imo. He is ranked near the bottom of the league in impact to winning.

[brackdan70]

He rejected Dallas once.
I think its reductive to say non-Luka players only touch the ball every 4 possessions when Luka hasn't just led the league, but lapped the league for 4 years running now in both quantity and quality of looks created for teammates. Playing with Luka makes for easy and plentiful opportunities to score -- and if Kuzma wants an offense to run through him, he should just stay on a bad team. No team is going to give Washington good value to make him a primary option. But he could still score 15-20 ppg with ease.

All that said, I'd do THJ/Powell, 25 1st(top 4 protected) for him. As long as he was okay with coming and he understood his role was to be a high minute 6th man. And I'd remind him that the Mavs have a long history of great 6th men. Tarpley and Detlef and NVE and Jamison and JET --all all-star or near as talents who played major roles, just didn't start.

Thats my offer.

You’d’ really do that? I guess if he was in that bench scorer role he could possibly thrive there. 25 looks like a really good draft to me. Granted that’s a late pick, but still.
I may be lower on Kuzma than most.

[Texas Chuck]

He rejected Dallas once.
I think its reductive to say non-Luka players only touch the ball every 4 possessions when Luka hasn't just led the league, but lapped the league for 4 years running now in both quantity and quality of looks created for teammates. Playing with Luka makes for easy and plentiful opportunities to score -- and if Kuzma wants an offense to run through him, he should just stay on a bad team. No team is going to give Washington good value to make him a primary option. But he could still score 15-20 ppg with ease.

All that said, I'd do THJ/Powell, 25 1st(top 4 protected) for him. As long as he was okay with coming and he understood his role was to be a high minute 6th man. And I'd remind him that the Mavs have a long history of great 6th men. Tarpley and Detlef and NVE and Jamison and JET --all all-star or near as talents who played major roles, just didn't start.

Thats my offer.

You’d’ really do that? I guess if he was in that bench scorer role he could possibly thrive there. 25 looks like a really good draft to me. Granted that’s a late pick, but still.
I may be lower on Kuzma than most.

I think if we avoid all the silly extreme takes he's still clearly a solid player. And I'd expect his efficiency to be up in Dallas versus him and Poole as your primary options. He's got good size, he will compete when games matter and it gives Dallas another quality player of size who can do a bit more in the 30 games one of Kyrie/Luka isn't playing. A better version of what THJ has been tasked with being.

I'd rather have someone else, but I'm realistic about what Dallas options are with their limited assets and of course Dallas and Washington have a long history of getting deals done with each other. They wouldn't fail to get a deal done over a 2nd round pick or the inclusion of the 2nd small year of Dwight Powell or something like that.

[gswhoops]

Personally I don’t see Kuzma as having a ton of value. He’s a tweener forward who can score a lot of points on below-average efficiency if you put the ball in his hands a lot and don’t care about winning. He’s not a good defender or 3pt shooter so he’s not a good fit as a complementary player. His best role on an actually good team is probably bench scorer, but he makes too much $ to be a bench player.

Tweener Forward? He is the same size as Siakam, John Collins, and Aaron Gordon. All 4 guys even play moments of small ball 5. They are nowhere NEAR tweener forwards.

Too much money? He makes the same as guys like Grayson Allen, Lu Dort, Duncan Robinson, Norman Powell, Brogdon, Sexton, etc. All Borderline starters/6th men.

Gordon is 6-8 235
Collins is 6-9 235
Siakam is 6-8 230

Kuzma is 6-9 221

An extra 10-15 pounds is a pretty significant difference when you're talking about guys who can bang in the post.

[gswhoops]

He rejected Dallas once.
I think its reductive to say non-Luka players only touch the ball every 4 possessions when Luka hasn't just led the league, but lapped the league for 4 years running now in both quantity and quality of looks created for teammates. Playing with Luka makes for easy and plentiful opportunities to score -- and if Kuzma wants an offense to run through him, he should just stay on a bad team. No team is going to give Washington good value to make him a primary option. But he could still score 15-20 ppg with ease.

All that said, I'd do THJ/Powell, 25 1st(top 4 protected) for him. As long as he was okay with coming and he understood his role was to be a high minute 6th man. And I'd remind him that the Mavs have a long history of great 6th men. Tarpley and Detlef and NVE and Jamison and JET --all all-star or near as talents who played major roles, just didn't start.

Thats my offer.

You’d’ really do that? I guess if he was in that bench scorer role he could possibly thrive there. 25 looks like a really good draft to me. Granted that’s a late pick, but still.
I may be lower on Kuzma than most.

I think if we avoid all the silly extreme takes he's still clearly a solid player. And I'd expect his efficiency to be up in Dallas versus him and Poole as your primary options. He's got good size, he will compete when games matter and it gives Dallas another quality player of size who can do a bit more in the 30 games one of Kyrie/Luka isn't playing. A better version of what THJ has been tasked with being.

I'd rather have someone else, but I'm realistic about what Dallas options are with their limited assets and of course Dallas and Washington have a long history of getting deals done with each other. They wouldn't fail to get a deal done over a 2nd round pick or the inclusion of the 2nd small year of Dwight Powell or something like that.

I think your original offer (matching expirings and a late 1st) is about right for his value. He's a good player, but not a great one, and has limitations that make him not a clean fit with a significant number of teams.

He's not a negative value on that contract by any means, but nor is he returning a lottery pick (even in a weak draft)

[Ell Curry]

I'm not a fan, so maybe Kuzma + #26 for Lonzo + #11? Very Bulls treadmill type move. Washington moves up, which makes sense for their rebuild.

[pcbothwel]

Personally I don’t see Kuzma as having a ton of value. He’s a tweener forward who can score a lot of points on below-average efficiency if you put the ball in his hands a lot and don’t care about winning. He’s not a good defender or 3pt shooter so he’s not a good fit as a complementary player. His best role on an actually good team is probably bench scorer, but he makes too much $ to be a bench player.

Tweener Forward? He is the same size as Siakam, John Collins, and Aaron Gordon. All 4 guys even play moments of small ball 5. They are nowhere NEAR tweener forwards.

Too much money? He makes the same as guys like Grayson Allen, Lu Dort, Duncan Robinson, Norman Powell, Brogdon, Sexton, etc. All Borderline starters/6th men.

Gordon is 6-8 235
Collins is 6-9 235
Siakam is 6-8 230

Kuzma is 6-9 221

An extra 10-15 pounds is a pretty significant difference when you're talking about guys who can bang in the post.

You are really going to stick with this, huh?

Official Combine measurements (Ht / Wt / Reach)
Gordon - 6'7.5 / 220 / 8'9 - Plays PF/C 85%/15% and has a ~11-12% TRB%
Collins - 6'8.25 / 225 / 8'10.5 - Plays PF/C 90%/10% and has a ~12-15% TRB%
Siakam - 6'8.25 / 226 / 8'11.5 - Plays PF/C 85%/15% and has a ~11-12% TRB%
Nance - 6'7.5 / 226 / 9'0 - Plays PF/C 15%/85% and has a ~13-14% TRB%

Kuz - 6'8 / 222 / 8'11.5 - Plays PF/C 80%/20% and has a ~11-12% TRB%

So....
Kuz is the same height/weight/wing as the 4 guys listed above.
Kuz rebounds at the same rate as the 4 guys listed above.
Kuz splits his time ~80/20 between the 4/5....like those listed above.
Yet those guys are 4's/small ball 5's.... and Kuz is a "Tweener Forward"

Got it

[Texas Chuck]

Why are you using combine numbers?

I mean its a stupid, pointless argument period, but I wouldn't expect all these guys to still automatically be at their combine weight.

[penbeast0]

I could see Kuzma for Giddey straight up or with something minor added by Washington so these deals with OKC adding value make me think that might be a target if the front offices agree. Giddey is still young enough to take a chance on while Kuzma is in his prime and pretty much the player he will be, possibly with improved shot selection in a situation where his team has other stronger scorers.

[BlazersBroncos]

I could see Kuzma for Giddey straight up or with something minor added by Washington so these deals with OKC adding value make me think that might be a target if the front offices agree. Giddey is still young enough to take a chance on while Kuzma is in his prime and pretty much the player he will be, possibly with improved shot selection in a situation where his team has other stronger scorers.

Ya I don’t see why you would rather a future pick in the 20 or lower range over Giddey as a rebuild team but that’s just me.

And I say 20 or lower b/c I don’t think Kuz is worth much more than that. I wouldn’t give up a future pick with much variability in slotting for him.

[jayjaysee]

Kuzma’s Washington contract probably looks a lot better than Kuzma’s Sac or Dallas or OKC contract.

It might not be the biggest impact, but definitely should be one. 3-6 million a year is big for teams trying to skate under tax or apron (Dallas or Chicago)… Think he still returns a first though.

[Scoot McGroot]

Why are you using combine numbers?

I mean its a stupid, pointless argument period, but I wouldn't expect all these guys to still automatically be at their combine weight.

I wish I only weighed what I did coming out of college.

[mcfly1204]

Why are you using combine numbers?

I mean its a stupid, pointless argument period, but I wouldn't expect all these guys to still automatically be at their combine weight.

I wish I only weighed what I did coming out of college.

You could amputate a leg or something?

[Scoot McGroot]

Why are you using combine numbers?

I mean its a stupid, pointless argument period, but I wouldn't expect all these guys to still automatically be at their combine weight.

I wish I only weighed what I did coming out of college.

You could amputate a leg or something?

At which point, I’d still say, “I wish I only weighed what I did coming out of college”

Kidding.

[Devilanche]

Why are you using combine numbers?

I mean its a stupid, pointless argument period, but I wouldn't expect all these guys to still automatically be at their combine weight.

I wish I only weighed what I did coming out of college.

That’s a high percentage wish of this board for sure.

[Texas Chuck]

I'm glad I don't weigh what I did out of college --145 at 6'3". But not thrilled with my current 195 either so eh I'll live with my dad bod.

[pipfan]

I'm not a fan, so maybe Kuzma + #26 for Lonzo + #11? Very Bulls treadmill type move. Washington moves up, which makes sense for their rebuild.

I agree-Bulls type move. Bulls would need to throw JCarter in this deal, to save a bit of $ for their offseason. But, since they won't rebuild I would do this one. Wash adds the #11 to the #2 and Bilal/Deni for their future core

[Dat2U]

I could see Kuzma for Giddey straight up or with something minor added by Washington so these deals with OKC adding value make me think that might be a target if the front offices agree. Giddey is still young enough to take a chance on while Kuzma is in his prime and pretty much the player he will be, possibly with improved shot selection in a situation where his team has other stronger scorers.

I'd rather keep Kuzma or deal him for mid 1st than take Josh Giddey back. He's got negative value on and off the court IMO. Fans certainly wouldn't like that move.

I'm not putting young DC area girls at risk by bringing Josh Giddey to the city.

[Dat2U]

I'm not a fan, so maybe Kuzma + #26 for Lonzo + #11? Very Bulls treadmill type move. Washington moves up, which makes sense for their rebuild.

I agree-Bulls type move. Bulls would need to throw JCarter in this deal, to save a bit of $ for their offseason. But, since they won't rebuild I would do this one. Wash adds the #11 to the #2 and Bilal/Deni for their future core

Yep, this type a deal makes sense. Chicago balances out their roster, saves some $$ & gets better. Wiz add salary but get a late lottery pick to add to the core.