Moving Flagg, DAL & SAS

[pipfan]

Maybe add the #14?
Harper is a good fit in Dallas, and adding Castle and the #14 helps the Mavs for the future
But I doubt Dallas would do it

[ACMFFL]

Zero interest in such a talent downgrade, that package is closer to AD than Flagg.

[One_and_Done]

Zero interest in such a talent downgrade, that package is closer to AD than Flagg.

I hope you are not seriously suggesting the Mavs could get the #2 pick for 32 yr old AD.

[ACMFFL]

Zero interest in such a talent downgrade, that package is closer to AD than Flagg.

I hope you are not seriously suggesting the Mavs could get the #2 pick for 32 yr old AD.

Lol calm down dude.

Flagg >> Harper+Castle > AD.

[One_and_Done]

Zero interest in such a talent downgrade, that package is closer to AD than Flagg.

I hope you are not seriously suggesting the Mavs could get the #2 pick for 32 yr old AD.

Lol calm down dude.

Flagg >> Harper+Castle > AD.

I mean maybe? But maybe not. I'm not sure the Spurs would do this. I don't think the Mavs do it either mind you, just because the PR backlash would be insane, but trading #1 for #2 and another asset isn't crazy.

[ACMFFL]

I hope you are not seriously suggesting the Mavs could get the #2 pick for 32 yr old AD.

Lol calm down dude.

Flagg >> Harper+Castle > AD.

I mean maybe? But maybe not. I'm not sure the Spurs would do this. I don't think the Mavs do it either mind you, just because the PR backlash would be insane, but trading #1 for #2 and another asset isn't crazy.

Yeah but definitely not in this draft and Castle doesn't bridge the gap between Flagg and Harper at all.

[One_and_Done]

Lol calm down dude.

Flagg >> Harper+Castle > AD.

I mean maybe? But maybe not. I'm not sure the Spurs would do this. I don't think the Mavs do it either mind you, just because the PR backlash would be insane, but trading #1 for #2 and another asset isn't crazy.

Yeah but definitely not in this draft and Castle doesn't bridge the gap between Flagg and Harper at all.

That narrative could change quickly.

[ACMFFL]

I mean maybe? But maybe not. I'm not sure the Spurs would do this. I don't think the Mavs do it either mind you, just because the PR backlash would be insane, but trading #1 for #2 and another asset isn't crazy.

Yeah but definitely not in this draft and Castle doesn't bridge the gap between Flagg and Harper at all.

That narrative could change quickly.

Narrative has nothing to do with the gap in talent/value between Flagg and Harper.

[Texas Chuck]

All that matters is their value right now. Yes, Flagg could get hurt or not develop. Harper could have unexpected depth to his game.

But the Spurs don't get to make the switch for cheap because that might happen. Right Wemby might never play another game but you aren't going to trade him for AD and a future pick because the current value gap is the grand canyon.

You want to play what if to justify a bargain price. And it would be cool if we could do that IRL, but we all know we can't so not sure why you keep harping on that.

[wemby]

I have already said I would do this for the Spurs, I'm high on Castle and Harper, but I'm also that high on Flagg. With that said, people acting like this offer is chump change need to get a grip: as good as Flagg is (he is phenomenal), Harper is a consensus 2 that would be 1 in quite a few draft classes, and Castle is the 4th pick coming off ROY. There aren't many precedents of such picks traded or even offered, but I can think of a few (maybe someone else knows of another):
1) In 1997, Celtics offered the Spurs 3 and 6 for 1. Duncan was the consensus top pick and even more hyped and accomplished than Flagg, then 3rd pick wasn't seen in the same light as this year's 2nd pick, and Castle (past 4th pick and ROY) should be valued higher than the 6th pick in a class that wasn't flooded with talent.
2) In 2017, 76ers moved up from 3 to 1 for a protected first (they then fumbled the pick while the Celtics nailed it).
3) In 2018 (highly rated class for good reason), Mavs moved up from 5 to 3 to draft Luka, who was the most accomplished Euro teen ever and many believed should have gone 1. The price was a protected first.
In summary, this offer sounds in line with past offers/trades in similar circumstances, doesn't mean Mavs should take it (I wouldn't) or even Spurs should offer (I would), but it's definitely not unreasonable.

[Slim Charless]

Castle was a better scorer, shooter, playmaker and defender than Carter Williams was at any point in his career. This feels like sour grapes.

No sour grapes. Just an outside assessment from a fan of neither team (though with much more respect for the Spurs than the Sixers). I see MCW as his closest rookie season comparable, with Castle as a slightly worse version. You see it differently, that's fine.

Castle may not pan out, but comparing him to MCW seems ridiculous. Castle is bigger, stronger, more athletic, and shows more promise as a defender, scorer, etc. Even his 3pt shooting looks more hopeful than MCW. If his 3pt shot doesn't come around it's a problem, but he can still find a role as a wing like Iggy. MCW was too small, thin and unathletic to do that.

His comparison is no less ridiculous than you saying you don't see a difference between Flagg and Harper. As Flagg is one of the most touted rookies aside from Wemby to come out since LeBron.

You saying that as a Spurs fan taints the entire viewpoint of ur posts

[SkyHook]

I have already said I would do this for the Spurs, I'm high on Castle and Harper, but I'm also that high on Flagg. With that said, people acting like this offer is chump change need to get a grip: as good as Flagg is (he is phenomenal), Harper is a consensus 2 that would be 1 in quite a few draft classes, and Castle is the 4th pick coming off ROY. There aren't many precedents of such picks traded or even offered, but I can think of a few (maybe someone else knows of another):
1) In 1997, Celtics offered the Spurs 3 and 6 for 1. Duncan was the consensus top pick and even more hyped and accomplished than Flagg, then 3rd pick wasn't seen in the same light as this year's 2nd pick, and Castle (past 4th pick and ROY) should be valued higher than the 6th pick in a class that wasn't flooded with talent.
2) In 2017, 76ers moved up from 3 to 1 for a protected first (they then fumbled the pick while the Celtics nailed it).
3) In 2018 (highly rated class for good reason), Mavs moved up from 5 to 3 to draft Luka, who was the most accomplished Euro teen ever and many believed should have gone 1. The price was a protected first.
In summary, this offer sounds in line with past offers/trades in similar circumstances, doesn't mean Mavs should take it (I wouldn't) or even Spurs should offer (I would), but it's definitely not unreasonable.

In 1993 the Magic traded the #1 pick (Chris Webber) for the #3 pick (Penny Hardaway) plus three additional FRPs.

There's a wide range of added value necessary depending upon the talent gap. I'd assert that the Webber/Penny gap was far closer than this year's, perceived to be one of the larger ones. Adding the worst ROY in over four decades doesn't come remotely close to getting a deal done.

[wemby]

In 1993 the Magic traded the #1 pick (Chris Webber) for the #3 pick (Penny Hardaway) plus three additional FRPs.

There's a wide range of added value necessary depending upon the talent gap. This year's gap is perceived to be one of the larger ones. Adding the worst ROY in over four decades doesn't come remotely close to getting a deal done.

I'd rather move 3 FRPs than Castle, so that's fine by me. #2 + 3 future FRP. Also I don't know that context (were those picks unprotected?), but Spurs FRPs have multiple swaps attached that make them more valuable, so any Spurs offer is actually better than the one you mention.

[jayjaysee]

Because we are talking about the team that traded Luka and doesn’t seem willing to take the blessing and tank a year?

Taking Castle out of it..

What’s the best player Dallas can get with what SAS would add to get to have Wemby/Flagg/Castle on rookie contracts together?

Say 2026 atl/SAS and 2028 SAS? Throw in the LAL first for the right player? PJ adding some value to the package.. Could include Lively if it’s worth it..

Do you keep two of those firsts and just get KD? If Harper works out to be a star, you can contend a couple years and retool with youth.. if he doesn’t, you at least burned through 3 of the 4 of the pick debt years and can enter a real rebuild at that point.

Or Jaylen? Sabonis? Bam?

[Texas Chuck]

Odd to include a trade offer the Spurs never remotely considered for Duncan to justify paying less.

But agree with all those saying Dallas would never insist on Castle so leave him out and fix the value differently.



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[wemby]

Odd to include a trade offer the Spurs never remotely considered for Duncan to justify paying less.

But agree with all those saying Dallas would never insist on Castle so leave him out and fix the value differently.

It's only odd if you failed to understand it was intended to show it was a plausible offer as an actual FO made it, which is a threshold the majority of the threads on this board wouldn't pass. I thought this excerpt should have been enough to put it into context:
"this offer sounds in line with past offers/trades in similar circumstances, doesn't mean Mavs should take it (I wouldn't) or even Spurs should offer (I would), but it's definitely not unreasonable"
Sounds like it wasn't and I shouldn't assume when someone replies to me they read my previous posts. My bad.

[brackdan70]

The gap between 1 and 2 in this draft is massive. Carter-Williams Castle doesn't come close to bridging that chasm.

Castle was a better scorer, shooter, playmaker and defender than Carter Williams was at any point in his career. This feels like sour grapes.

Their numbers are pretty similar for rookie years actually .
MCW better rebounding and advanced stats. Castle a bit of a better shooter but not much.
MCW kind of peaked as a Rookie though, hopefully Castle doesn’t.

[daoneandonly]

This is what happens when a team is handed three #1 picks when generational bigs are coming out and then given Fox for chump change, some of their fans get a sense of entitlement. That fox trade would have been much more heavily criticized if Nico hadn't made the most moronic trade in sports history a little earlier

[BarbaGrizz]

What would be Lakers´ offer?

[One_and_Done]

No sour grapes. Just an outside assessment from a fan of neither team (though with much more respect for the Spurs than the Sixers). I see MCW as his closest rookie season comparable, with Castle as a slightly worse version. You see it differently, that's fine.

Castle may not pan out, but comparing him to MCW seems ridiculous. Castle is bigger, stronger, more athletic, and shows more promise as a defender, scorer, etc. Even his 3pt shooting looks more hopeful than MCW. If his 3pt shot doesn't come around it's a problem, but he can still find a role as a wing like Iggy. MCW was too small, thin and unathletic to do that.

His comparison is no less ridiculous than you saying you don't see a difference between Flagg and Harper. As Flagg is one of the most touted rookies aside from Wemby to come out since LeBron.

You saying that as a Spurs fan taints the entire viewpoint of ur posts

I never said what team I was a fan of. Nor did I say I rated Flagg and Harper as equal.