DAL - NYK - SAC

[mademan]

Super hot take....keon ellis isnt that far off of Bridges value given contracts

I actually like this trade a lot for the Knicks and think theyre better. Getting 3 solid role players, all under contract for multiple seasons, all capable of giving real minutes in the playoffs for Mikal is more than fine, imo. They would never do it because of the price they paid for him, but i really do think theyre better after this trade

[LightTheBeam]

How funny it would be to see the knicks trade for Keon after the clown Mike brown wouldnt play him for 2 years.

Dont think nyk bites on this. But thats fine, if Dallas agrees to their side im fine just dealing directly with them.

[jayjaysee]

I mean without seeing Sac getting Bridges, Dallas should see if Demar is willing to play the sixth man role he should be. But maybe you rotate Klay and him? No idea. But he would help so it’s fine though not exciting.

Dallas needs to just make sure they can dump Hardy as part of the deal so it’s legal.. Doubt the league lets Dallas complete a trade that makes it impossible for them to fill bench considering they are hard capped at second apron thanks to DLo.

But then once Dallas seeing their guys plus a decent expiring guard headed for UFA can get Bridges? I assume Sacramento is no longer involved.

[bpcox05]

Then keep him. You have Mavs paying the majority of the garbage return NY is getting, yet somehow Sacramento ends up with Bridges. The trade is abysmal for NY and bad for Dallas

The Kings have an abundance of ball handlers/playmakers (Schroder, Monk, LaVine, DeRozan, & Sabonis) and we don’t have the defense to hide his deficiencies hence why it’d make sense for the Kings to move him but would be a good fit in DAL. It’s not a matter of just keeping him. It’s a matter of assessing his fit with our team and other teams and DAL is a good fit.

And no, SAC is giving up a lot more value in this trade than DAL. I’m assuming you’re undervaluing Keon Ellis here.

Why can't you accept you posted a bad trade? We all do it more often than not. A NY fan and a Dal fan is telling you the trade is not good, not just for our own team, but each other's as well. Yet you're still arguing it's fair

Well because I’m waiting for an argument that persuades me that it is in fact a bad trade. I mean you’re a DAL fan and you still haven’t recognized how well DeRozan fits with your roster. Why would I take that opinion seriously until you explain why he’d be a poor fit?

DeRozan and Ellis are two positive value players going out. And I’m not saying DeRozan has a ton of value, but Ellis certainly does. He’s 25 years old and not yet in his prime, but despite that, he averages 43% from 3 on 6.0 3PAs per 36 min FOR HIS CAREER. Almost averages a 2:1 AST:TO ratio FOR HIS CAREER. So on top of being one of the best C&S shooters on in the league and a smart passer/decision maker, he’s a menace defensively. He averages 2.1 STLs and 1.1 BLKs per 36 min FOR HIS CAREER. He’s versatile defensively in that he has the athleticism and length to defend 1-3.

He’s also very good when looking at advanced impact stats(better than Bridges, in fact)…

EPM = 140th
VPM = 71st
DPM = 96th
LEBRON = 105th
2Y RAPM = 29th
eRAPTOR = 49th
MAMBA = 83rd

So considering the fact that Bridges is an expiring, Bridges could be an expensive 4th option for the Knicks, the Knicks lack depth, and the Knicks return a high level roleplaying starter to replace Bridges (who is also younger) and forward/wing depth…yeah I think it’s a pretty solid deal for them.

[jayjaysee]

Off topic, but Sac should never have picked up his option. He's the player you decline the option and have a deal that saves a couple million a year off future years for.. like Herb, Wiggins, etc… And don’t let him hit UFA next summer.

Just a really weird decision.

[longfellow44]

I'm not doing this as a kings fan. Mikal isn't the defender you might think he is. He has pretty much been just ok on that end of the floor. I would rather Ellis, especially when we take contracts into the equation.

[nykballa2k4]

Bridges is replaced with a high level role player starter and it very much improves their bench. I think they’re a better team after this.

As for Dallas and defense, should they also trade Irving? Should they also trade Thompson? Should they not have signed Russell? Let’s not pretend like this team said that every single player on the roster needs to be a good defender to win a championship. The Mavs have a lot of defense already and I don’t think a 6th man being a sub par defender is the weak link that you might think it is.

I was being nice the first time, but let me clarify.

Trade is absolute trash from NY perspective. There is a reason you are giving youself Bridges and dumping off DeRozan. You want to make this trade even a conversation? You need to add 2 unprotected and 1 protected FRP. At that point, just cut Dallas out and just give us one player instead of cluttering our roster with wasted money.

Our GM just traded 5 FRP for Bridges. It was a signature move. We just upended our team by getting a new coach, in part, due to criticism from said player. There is no chance that we are going to take a step back in talent this year, unless we are blown away, because Bridges might get paid. With the new CBA, no one will be giving Bridges a giant contract. No one is looking to give Bridges 50M. 25M, 30M will be a stretch.
There is genuinely nothing close to a good reason to do a deal like this. Why am I trading for Mavs Martin when I can get the one waived from the Suns for free?

Many of your points don’t amount to the trade being “trash.” It amounts to the Knicks overpaying for Bridges and expecting the same return later down the road (and while he’s an expiring of all things).

If you still expect a 5 1st round pick value for an expiring Bridges, that has more to do with your expectations and less about what his actual value is.

You know why you want this trade. You are getting a MUCH better player than you are giving up. Just saw what Bane went for, you hear what people are willing to offer for White out of Boston. Your value is WAY off. That's why it's a trash offer.

[SuperflyKnick]

Well it’s easy to make such a claim when you only focus on his weaknesses. It turns out, his strengths would actually help fill a need for DAL hence why he’s a good fit (especially since the personnel around him help cover for his deficiencies).

Then keep him. You have Mavs paying the majority of the garbage return NY is getting, yet somehow Sacramento ends up with Bridges. The trade is abysmal for NY and bad for Dallas

The Kings have an abundance of ball handlers/playmakers (Schroder, Monk, LaVine, DeRozan, & Sabonis) and we don’t have the defense to hide his deficiencies hence why it’d make sense for the Kings to move him but would be a good fit in DAL. It’s not a matter of just keeping him. It’s a matter of assessing his fit with our team and other teams and DAL is a good fit.

And no, SAC is giving up a lot more value in this trade than DAL. I’m assuming you’re undervaluing Keon Ellis here.

Either way you spin it like everyone is saying, NY says NOOOO....no matter how hard you try to spin Derozen and Eliis as positive values this trade doest make any sense for NY. You dont get the best player in the deal becuz you feel your 2 players are positive value...

[bpcox05]

I was being nice the first time, but let me clarify.

Trade is absolute trash from NY perspective. There is a reason you are giving youself Bridges and dumping off DeRozan. You want to make this trade even a conversation? You need to add 2 unprotected and 1 protected FRP. At that point, just cut Dallas out and just give us one player instead of cluttering our roster with wasted money.

Our GM just traded 5 FRP for Bridges. It was a signature move. We just upended our team by getting a new coach, in part, due to criticism from said player. There is no chance that we are going to take a step back in talent this year, unless we are blown away, because Bridges might get paid. With the new CBA, no one will be giving Bridges a giant contract. No one is looking to give Bridges 50M. 25M, 30M will be a stretch.
There is genuinely nothing close to a good reason to do a deal like this. Why am I trading for Mavs Martin when I can get the one waived from the Suns for free?

Many of your points don’t amount to the trade being “trash.” It amounts to the Knicks overpaying for Bridges and expecting the same return later down the road (and while he’s an expiring of all things).

If you still expect a 5 1st round pick value for an expiring Bridges, that has more to do with your expectations and less about what his actual value is.

You know why you want this trade. You are getting a MUCH better player than you are giving up. Just saw what Bane went for, you hear what people are willing to offer for White out of Boston. Your value is WAY off. That's why it's a trash offer.

I want Bridges because…

1.). We have a glut of guards and we need to rebalance the roster (e.g., sending out Ellis for a wing/forward)
2.). DeRozan needs more size, length, and defense around him and that’s the exact same thing you need around Sabonis (not a good fit putting those 2 next to each other).

It’s funny you point to the Bane trade as evidence considering…

1.). Bane is a superior player to Bridges. Per 36 min, Bane put up 21.7/6.8/6.0 with a .600 TS% meanwhile Bridges put up 17.1/3.1/3.6 with a .585 TS%, and don’t get me started on the difference in their advanced impact stats.
2.) Bane is locked up for the next 4 seasons on a deal less than 25% of the salary cap while Bridges is an expiring.

It’s not even remotely a good comparison.

[bpcox05]

Then keep him. You have Mavs paying the majority of the garbage return NY is getting, yet somehow Sacramento ends up with Bridges. The trade is abysmal for NY and bad for Dallas

The Kings have an abundance of ball handlers/playmakers (Schroder, Monk, LaVine, DeRozan, & Sabonis) and we don’t have the defense to hide his deficiencies hence why it’d make sense for the Kings to move him but would be a good fit in DAL. It’s not a matter of just keeping him. It’s a matter of assessing his fit with our team and other teams and DAL is a good fit.

And no, SAC is giving up a lot more value in this trade than DAL. I’m assuming you’re undervaluing Keon Ellis here.

Either way you spin it like everyone is saying, NY says NOOOO....no matter how hard you try to spin Derozen and Eliis as positive values this trade doest make any sense for NY. You dont get the best player in the deal becuz you feel your 2 players are positive value...

There is no spin when I claim that both DeRozan and Ellis have positive value. That’s about as direct as I can be.

And the trade does make sense for NY (we even have others outside of me agreeing it does). There’s either an overvaluing of Bridges going on or an undervaluing of Ellis.

[Michaellam1987]

The Kings have an abundance of ball handlers/playmakers (Schroder, Monk, LaVine, DeRozan, & Sabonis) and we don’t have the defense to hide his deficiencies hence why it’d make sense for the Kings to move him but would be a good fit in DAL. It’s not a matter of just keeping him. It’s a matter of assessing his fit with our team and other teams and DAL is a good fit.

And no, SAC is giving up a lot more value in this trade than DAL. I’m assuming you’re undervaluing Keon Ellis here.

Either way you spin it like everyone is saying, NY says NOOOO....no matter how hard you try to spin Derozen and Eliis as positive values this trade doest make any sense for NY. You dont get the best player in the deal becuz you feel your 2 players are positive value...

There is no spin when I claim that both DeRozan and Ellis have positive value. That’s about as direct as I can be.

And the trade does make sense for NY (we even have others outside of me agreeing it does). There’s either an overvaluing of Bridges going on or an undervaluing of Ellis.

Ellis is obviously a positive value asset, but it is not that positive, given that he is subject to big pay next year, the same argument can apply to Bridge. 5 first round pick is an overpay for him at the very beginning, and everyone will agree that Bridge does not worth that much now. On the other hand, DDR at 25M for 2 more year, and partial guarantee in the 2nd year is not bad contract at all. But it is difficult to argue him as positive value asset, it is more likely a neutral to slightly negative asset, as there is not too many team in this league that DDR can fit in. DAL could be one of the team that can use him.

[SuperflyKnick]

The Kings have an abundance of ball handlers/playmakers (Schroder, Monk, LaVine, DeRozan, & Sabonis) and we don’t have the defense to hide his deficiencies hence why it’d make sense for the Kings to move him but would be a good fit in DAL. It’s not a matter of just keeping him. It’s a matter of assessing his fit with our team and other teams and DAL is a good fit.

And no, SAC is giving up a lot more value in this trade than DAL. I’m assuming you’re undervaluing Keon Ellis here.

Either way you spin it like everyone is saying, NY says NOOOO....no matter how hard you try to spin Derozen and Eliis as positive values this trade doest make any sense for NY. You dont get the best player in the deal becuz you feel your 2 players are positive value...

There is no spin when I claim that both DeRozan and Ellis have positive value. That’s about as direct as I can be.

And the trade does make sense for NY (we even have others outside of me agreeing it does). There’s either an overvaluing of Bridges going on or an undervaluing of Ellis.

Again Trading DD and Ellis for Bridges is bad business all around. You dont trade 5 firsts (Ovrpay) and turn around and ship him for DD and Ellis , talk about asset waste... For that reason alone if it isnt for a star the knicks wont trade bridges

[daoneandonly]

Either way you spin it like everyone is saying, NY says NOOOO....no matter how hard you try to spin Derozen and Eliis as positive values this trade doest make any sense for NY. You dont get the best player in the deal becuz you feel your 2 players are positive value...

There is no spin when I claim that both DeRozan and Ellis have positive value. That’s about as direct as I can be.

And the trade does make sense for NY (we even have others outside of me agreeing it does). There’s either an overvaluing of Bridges going on or an undervaluing of Ellis.

Again Trading DD and Ellis for Bridges is bad business all around. You dont trade 5 firsts (Ovrpay) and turn around and ship him for DD and Ellis , talk about asset waste... For that reason alone if it isnt for a star the knicks wont trade bridges

OP just cant admit this one is a miss, he thinks NY and Dal should help his team. Notice only 1 person in the poll clicked all teams say yes, it was clearly him

[bpcox05]

Either way you spin it like everyone is saying, NY says NOOOO....no matter how hard you try to spin Derozen and Eliis as positive values this trade doest make any sense for NY. You dont get the best player in the deal becuz you feel your 2 players are positive value...

There is no spin when I claim that both DeRozan and Ellis have positive value. That’s about as direct as I can be.

And the trade does make sense for NY (we even have others outside of me agreeing it does). There’s either an overvaluing of Bridges going on or an undervaluing of Ellis.

Again Trading DD and Ellis for Bridges is bad business all around. You dont trade 5 firsts (Ovrpay) and turn around and ship him for DD and Ellis , talk about asset waste... For that reason alone if it isnt for a star the knicks wont trade bridges

The Knicks aren’t getting DeRozan. They’re getting Martin, Marshall, and Ellis.

And I’m glad you at least admit the Bridges trade was an overpay and that Bridges doesn’t hold near that value now considering his declining numbers and contract situation, but if the point is that the FO won’t admit their mistake and make a deal that actually makes them better because of optics…well that’s cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Again, I’m not the only person that has posted in this thread that agrees this trade helps the Knicks. The issue seems to be that the FO would be admitting they made a mistake when trading for Bridges; whereas, if they don’t trade him, they can continue pretending like it was a good trade to make. That doesn’t really suggest that the proposed trade is a bad trade. It suggests that people are worried about optics (which doesn’t impact winning).

[bpcox05]

There is no spin when I claim that both DeRozan and Ellis have positive value. That’s about as direct as I can be.

And the trade does make sense for NY (we even have others outside of me agreeing it does). There’s either an overvaluing of Bridges going on or an undervaluing of Ellis.

Again Trading DD and Ellis for Bridges is bad business all around. You dont trade 5 firsts (Ovrpay) and turn around and ship him for DD and Ellis , talk about asset waste... For that reason alone if it isnt for a star the knicks wont trade bridges

OP just cant admit this one is a miss, he thinks NY and Dal should help his team. Notice only 1 person in the poll clicked all teams say yes, it was clearly him

And you can’t admit that DeRozan would actually help the Mavs (despite other Mav fans on this board agreeing that he does). Your opinion is far from consensus…even within your own fanbase.

And again, I’m not the only one who has posted in this thread that suggests this deal helps the Knicks. If you’re so frustrated by me defending my proposal, how about you actually give a counter with some evidence to backup your claim? More than happy to have that discussion with you.

[daoneandonly]

Again Trading DD and Ellis for Bridges is bad business all around. You dont trade 5 firsts (Ovrpay) and turn around and ship him for DD and Ellis , talk about asset waste... For that reason alone if it isnt for a star the knicks wont trade bridges

OP just cant admit this one is a miss, he thinks NY and Dal should help his team. Notice only 1 person in the poll clicked all teams say yes, it was clearly him

And you can’t admit that DeRozan would actually help the Mavs (despite other Mav fans on this board agreeing that he does). Your opinion is far from consensus…even within your own fanbase.

And again, I’m not the only one who has posted in this thread that suggests this deal helps the Knicks. If you’re so frustrated by me defending my proposal, how about you actually give a counter with some evidence to backup your claim? More than happy to have that discussion with you.

SO how do you reconcile CHicago getting Chris Duarte and two seconds for DDR and now all of a sudden Sacramento gets MIkal in this proposal, or an unprotected Mil pick in your other? DDR is too flawed for what the Mavs need and they need younger guys, not older. That's not even mentionign NY is gettign the worst of this. Keon Ellis isnt some incredible blue-chip young gun. If he were, Sacr wouldn't have gone after Lavine, they'd stick with Keon.

This argument Dallas' teammates will cover DDR's weaknesses is ridiculous when he's paid so much, and he's a terrible fit with the starting lineup because he cant space the floor for a team lacking it.

[bpcox05]

OP just cant admit this one is a miss, he thinks NY and Dal should help his team. Notice only 1 person in the poll clicked all teams say yes, it was clearly him

And you can’t admit that DeRozan would actually help the Mavs (despite other Mav fans on this board agreeing that he does). Your opinion is far from consensus…even within your own fanbase.

And again, I’m not the only one who has posted in this thread that suggests this deal helps the Knicks. If you’re so frustrated by me defending my proposal, how about you actually give a counter with some evidence to backup your claim? More than happy to have that discussion with you.

SO how do you reconcile CHicago getting Chris Duarte and two seconds for DDR and now all of a sudden Sacramento gets MIkal in this proposal, or an unprotected Mil pick in your other? DDR is too flawed for what the Mavs need and they need younger guys, not older. That's not even mentionign NY is gettign the worst of this. Keon Ellis isnt some incredible blue-chip young gun. If he were, Sacr wouldn't have gone after Lavine, they'd stick with Keon.

This argument Dallas' teammates will cover DDR's weaknesses is ridiculous when he's paid so much, and he's a terrible fit with the starting lineup because he cant space the floor for a team lacking it.

Oh pretty easily. We acquired DeRozan via a S&T. It's pretty well known that the value you have to send out to make a S&T work is less than trading for a player outright, but it seems you disagree with that well known census?

So the Mav's can't cover his weaknesses because DeRozan makes too much? Is that really the stance you're taking? You do realize covering for a player's weaknesses has more to do with the composition of the roster, what skills those players bring, etc...not the dollar amount they make Said another way, if DeRozan was on a minimum deal, does that all of a sudden allow for his teammates to cover his teammates? It's an irrelevant point.

So now you're shifting the goalpost. As you can see from the OP you referenced, DeRozan is listed as coming off the bench. DeRozan as a super 6th man scorer/playmaker makes a lot of sense for the Mavs. The starting unit still has Russell, Thompson, Flagg, & Davis (to some extent) space the floor. When DeRozan comes on the floor, you can push Flagg to PF or sub Washington in at PF (giving the team extra shooting from the PF spot) while also having the option of playing Davis at C for stretches (which gives them some more spacing than when Lively or Gafford are out there). Also, DeRozan has shot 38.7% from the corner threes over the past 2 years. He does have the ability to knock down that shot if left open so he's not a complete "zero" when it comes to spacing.


Looks let's take this even further...let's compare all of these players advanced impact stats for the fun of it...

EPM
Keon Ellis = 140th
DeMar DeRozan = 85th
Naji Marshall = 201st
Mikal Bridges = 153rd
Caleb Martin = 406th

VPM
Keon Ellis = 71st
DeMar DeRozan = 117th
Naji Marshall = 138th
Mikal Bridges = 220th
Caleb Martin = 360th

DPM
Keon Ellis = 96th
DeMar DeRozan = 112th
Naji Marshall = 292nd
Mikal Bridges = 208th
Caleb Martin = 388th

LEBRON
Keon Ellis = 105th
DeMar DeRozan = 111th
Naji Marshall = 404th
Mikal Bridges = 312th
Caleb Martin = 532nd

2Y RAPM
Keon Ellis = 29th
DeMar DeRozan = 154th
Naji Marshall = 51st
Mikal Bridges = 593rd
Caleb Martin = 498th

eRAPTOR
Keon Ellis = 49th
DeMar DeRozan = 57th
Naji Marshall = 161st
Mikal Bridges = 92nd
Caleb Martin = 344th

MAMBA
Keon Ellis = 83rd
DeMar DeRozan = 149th
Naji Marshall = 213th
Mikal Bridges = 147th
Caleb Martin = 308th

...and if I were to average their ranks across all 7 of these metrics, we get the following...

Overall Average
Keon Ellis = 82nd
DeMar DeRozan = 112th
Naji Marshall = 209th
Mikal Bridges = 246th
Caleb Martin = 405th


According to these metrics, the Kings may be giving up the two most impactful players in the deal, but when you factor in things like age, potential, contracts, fit, log jams, the role of the player, etc., the deal makes more sense for all parties involved.

These metrics give us a lot of data points that point to Ellis and DeRozan being impactful players. In Ellis' case, he's a guy that can fit on essentially every team. In DeRozan's case, if you can pair the impact he brings with players who can complement his weaknesses, you're helping your team. Luckily for Dallas, he's a great fit for their current roster.

[daoneandonly]

And you can’t admit that DeRozan would actually help the Mavs (despite other Mav fans on this board agreeing that he does). Your opinion is far from consensus…even within your own fanbase.

And again, I’m not the only one who has posted in this thread that suggests this deal helps the Knicks. If you’re so frustrated by me defending my proposal, how about you actually give a counter with some evidence to backup your claim? More than happy to have that discussion with you.

SO how do you reconcile CHicago getting Chris Duarte and two seconds for DDR and now all of a sudden Sacramento gets MIkal in this proposal, or an unprotected Mil pick in your other? DDR is too flawed for what the Mavs need and they need younger guys, not older. That's not even mentionign NY is gettign the worst of this. Keon Ellis isnt some incredible blue-chip young gun. If he were, Sacr wouldn't have gone after Lavine, they'd stick with Keon.

This argument Dallas' teammates will cover DDR's weaknesses is ridiculous when he's paid so much, and he's a terrible fit with the starting lineup because he cant space the floor for a team lacking it.

Oh pretty easily. We acquired DeRozan via a S&T. It's pretty well known that the value you have to send out to make a S&T work is less than trading for a player outright, but it seems you disagree with that well known census?

So the Mav's can't cover his weaknesses because DeRozan makes too much? Is that really the stance you're taking? You do realize covering for a player's weaknesses has more to do with the composition of the roster, what skills those players bring, etc...not the dollar amount they make Said another way, if DeRozan was on a minimum deal, does that all of a sudden allow for his teammates to cover his teammates? It's an irrelevant point.

So now you're shifting the goalpost. As you can see from the OP you referenced, DeRozan is listed as coming off the bench. DeRozan as a super 6th man scorer/playmaker makes a lot of sense for the Mavs. The starting unit still has Russell, Thompson, Flagg, & Davis (to some extent) space the floor. When DeRozan comes on the floor, you can push Flagg to PF or sub Washington in at PF (giving the team extra shooting from the PF spot) while also having the option of playing Davis at C for stretches (which gives them some more spacing than when Lively or Gafford are out there). Also, DeRozan has shot 38.7% from the corner threes over the past 2 years. He does have the ability to knock down that shot if left open so he's not a complete "zero" when it comes to spacing.


Looks let's take this even further...let's compare all of these players advanced impact stats for the fun of it...

EPM
Keon Ellis = 140th
DeMar DeRozan = 85th
Naji Marshall = 201st
Mikal Bridges = 153rd
Caleb Martin = 406th

VPM
Keon Ellis = 71st
DeMar DeRozan = 117th
Naji Marshall = 138th
Mikal Bridges = 220th
Caleb Martin = 360th

DPM
Keon Ellis = 96th
DeMar DeRozan = 112th
Naji Marshall = 292nd
Mikal Bridges = 208th
Caleb Martin = 388th

LEBRON
Keon Ellis = 105th
DeMar DeRozan = 111th
Naji Marshall = 404th
Mikal Bridges = 312th
Caleb Martin = 532nd

2Y RAPM
Keon Ellis = 29th
DeMar DeRozan = 154th
Naji Marshall = 51st
Mikal Bridges = 593rd
Caleb Martin = 498th

eRAPTOR
Keon Ellis = 49th
DeMar DeRozan = 57th
Naji Marshall = 161st
Mikal Bridges = 92nd
Caleb Martin = 344th

MAMBA
Keon Ellis = 83rd
DeMar DeRozan = 149th
Naji Marshall = 213th
Mikal Bridges = 147th
Caleb Martin = 308th

...and if I were to average their ranks across all 7 of these metrics, we get the following...

Overall Average
Keon Ellis = 82nd
DeMar DeRozan = 112th
Naji Marshall = 209th
Mikal Bridges = 246th
Caleb Martin = 405th


According to these metrics, the Kings may be giving up the two most impactful players in the deal, but when you factor in things like age, potential, contracts, fit, log jams, the role of the player, etc., the deal makes more sense for all parties involved.

These metrics give us a lot of data points that point to Ellis and DeRozan being impactful players. In Ellis' case, he's a guy that can fit on essentially every team. In DeRozan's case, if you can pair the impact he brings with players who can complement his weaknesses, you're helping your team. Luckily for Dallas, he's a great fit for their current roster.

Im done arguing with you, your poll shows that this favors Sacramento and you won't admit it. Whenever I see a thread created by bpcox i know not to click on it.

[taikibansei]

While I don't think it will happen, I kind of like the trade in the OP for the Knicks. Also, personally, I don't care what we (over)paid to get Bridges. That's sunk cost, and even though an overpay, I'm glad we got him (as he played well for us last season).

However, I would be less happy to have him at a higher salary--why I'm open to a trade such as presented in the OP.

[bpcox05]

SO how do you reconcile CHicago getting Chris Duarte and two seconds for DDR and now all of a sudden Sacramento gets MIkal in this proposal, or an unprotected Mil pick in your other? DDR is too flawed for what the Mavs need and they need younger guys, not older. That's not even mentionign NY is gettign the worst of this. Keon Ellis isnt some incredible blue-chip young gun. If he were, Sacr wouldn't have gone after Lavine, they'd stick with Keon.

This argument Dallas' teammates will cover DDR's weaknesses is ridiculous when he's paid so much, and he's a terrible fit with the starting lineup because he cant space the floor for a team lacking it.

Oh pretty easily. We acquired DeRozan via a S&T. It's pretty well known that the value you have to send out to make a S&T work is less than trading for a player outright, but it seems you disagree with that well known census?

So the Mav's can't cover his weaknesses because DeRozan makes too much? Is that really the stance you're taking? You do realize covering for a player's weaknesses has more to do with the composition of the roster, what skills those players bring, etc...not the dollar amount they make Said another way, if DeRozan was on a minimum deal, does that all of a sudden allow for his teammates to cover his teammates? It's an irrelevant point.

So now you're shifting the goalpost. As you can see from the OP you referenced, DeRozan is listed as coming off the bench. DeRozan as a super 6th man scorer/playmaker makes a lot of sense for the Mavs. The starting unit still has Russell, Thompson, Flagg, & Davis (to some extent) space the floor. When DeRozan comes on the floor, you can push Flagg to PF or sub Washington in at PF (giving the team extra shooting from the PF spot) while also having the option of playing Davis at C for stretches (which gives them some more spacing than when Lively or Gafford are out there). Also, DeRozan has shot 38.7% from the corner threes over the past 2 years. He does have the ability to knock down that shot if left open so he's not a complete "zero" when it comes to spacing.


Looks let's take this even further...let's compare all of these players advanced impact stats for the fun of it...

EPM
Keon Ellis = 140th
DeMar DeRozan = 85th
Naji Marshall = 201st
Mikal Bridges = 153rd
Caleb Martin = 406th

VPM
Keon Ellis = 71st
DeMar DeRozan = 117th
Naji Marshall = 138th
Mikal Bridges = 220th
Caleb Martin = 360th

DPM
Keon Ellis = 96th
DeMar DeRozan = 112th
Naji Marshall = 292nd
Mikal Bridges = 208th
Caleb Martin = 388th

LEBRON
Keon Ellis = 105th
DeMar DeRozan = 111th
Naji Marshall = 404th
Mikal Bridges = 312th
Caleb Martin = 532nd

2Y RAPM
Keon Ellis = 29th
DeMar DeRozan = 154th
Naji Marshall = 51st
Mikal Bridges = 593rd
Caleb Martin = 498th

eRAPTOR
Keon Ellis = 49th
DeMar DeRozan = 57th
Naji Marshall = 161st
Mikal Bridges = 92nd
Caleb Martin = 344th

MAMBA
Keon Ellis = 83rd
DeMar DeRozan = 149th
Naji Marshall = 213th
Mikal Bridges = 147th
Caleb Martin = 308th

...and if I were to average their ranks across all 7 of these metrics, we get the following...

Overall Average
Keon Ellis = 82nd
DeMar DeRozan = 112th
Naji Marshall = 209th
Mikal Bridges = 246th
Caleb Martin = 405th


According to these metrics, the Kings may be giving up the two most impactful players in the deal, but when you factor in things like age, potential, contracts, fit, log jams, the role of the player, etc., the deal makes more sense for all parties involved.

These metrics give us a lot of data points that point to Ellis and DeRozan being impactful players. In Ellis' case, he's a guy that can fit on essentially every team. In DeRozan's case, if you can pair the impact he brings with players who can complement his weaknesses, you're helping your team. Luckily for Dallas, he's a great fit for their current roster.

Im done arguing with you, your poll shows that this favors Sacramento and you won't admit it. Whenever I see a thread created by bpcox i know not to click on it.

Hey look at that! Yet another poster that thinks it’s a good deal for NYK. Perhaps you overreacted a bit?