Help the Raps Find a Young Center?

[gswhoops]

Goga Bitadze is too good for his limited role in ORL (if everyone is healthy)...Carter is the starter and when Moe Wagner comes back, the second unit needs his offense. Isaac is big enough to eat some minutes in the Center rotation (maybe even rookie Penda), so Goga is kind of the odd man out. He filled in very admirably as a starter whenever Carter was (frequently) injured.

I don't know what makes sense coming back for ORL as they are very deep and facing a looming cap situation. Obviously, ORL just sent out lots of picks - so restocking might be the priority...I like Agbaji but it's no longer really a desperate backcourt situation anymore...I suppose a pick and an expiring(s) would be the price as both teams are over the tax line. Maybe a third team comes in to take Agbaji or Dick.

Goga isn't bringing back a 1st round pick

I'd say he's worth a late first...but TOR won't have any of those for a while. He'd be a super-solid backup and spot starter.

Respectfully disagree. Nothing against Goga but he's a backup caliber player. A good backup to be sure, and good enough that he won't get you killed if he has to start a game here or there, but if he's an everyday starter you're absolutely looking to upgrade. As a rule teams don't give up 1st round picks for backups, and it's not like Goga has untapped potential or some incredibly rare skillset that would justify him being an exception to the rule.

[Devilanche]

As a Blazers fan, I agree with the idea that Blazers will eventually move on from 1 of their 2 young centers, but it is too early. I doubt they have concluded which is more expendable, plus trading one would make them extra thin at center for now, so any hopes of prying either away at this time would require a significant overpay.

Earliest at next draft . But more likely in two drafts time. Unless for some reason blazers make a Yang / Clingan front court works for 10mins or so together so 58 mins to split between the 2.

[Devilanche]

I'd say he's worth a late first...but TOR won't have any of those for a while. He'd be a super-solid backup and spot starter.

There’s not a lot of teams with first to trade anymore so it’s more likely multiple second round picks or late first with bad contract coming back.

[Myth]

As a Blazers fan, I agree with the idea that Blazers will eventually move on from 1 of their 2 young centers, but it is too early. I doubt they have concluded which is more expendable, plus trading one would make them extra thin at center for now, so any hopes of prying either away at this time would require a significant overpay.

Earliest at next draft . But more likely in two drafts time. Unless for some reason blazers make a Yang / Clingan front court works for 10mins or so together so 58 mins to split between the 2.

Defensively, I can’t see it. Neither have the foot speed to appropriately rotate to the perimeter. You can survive with 1 such guy on the court, but not 2 these days IMO. They would have worked 20+ years ago. Only ways we keep both is if they both struggle with conditioning long term, or if Yang never reaches starter level.

[tcheco]

Goga is not worth a first unless its a super late pick during the draft. I like him, but there's probably too many free agents every year that can replicate what he brings at the same salary. If he had one extra year of contract and one extra year of play at the same level as last year... maybe a top 25 protected pick

[wegotthabeet]

Three way trade

Raptors get: Kessler

Jazz get: Knecht + 2027 Raptors 1st (unprotected) + 2031 Lakers 1st (unprotected) + 2027 Lakers 1st (1-4)

Lakers get: Walter

Why for Raptors?
They get the requested center.

Why for Jazz?
They get two unprotected 1st round picks and protection is lifted from the 2027 pick owed to them by the Lakers. They have shooters already but Ainge might want Knecht still. He dropped 40 against Utah. Trading Kessler helps their tank, their future payroll, and tehy reload with potentially valuable picks.

Why for Lakers?
Walter is 3 and D. He could start at guard for them next to Luka. He is similar to their former player, KCP. Lakers had interest in him in the draft. Also, he is cost controlled. Bonus, his name is Ja'Kobe Walter. Good use of those picks.

Can’t see Kessler returning 3 practically unprotected FRP.

or even one.

[MessiahUjiri]

Goga Bitadze is too good for his limited role in ORL (if everyone is healthy)...Carter is the starter and when Moe Wagner comes back, the second unit needs his offense. Isaac is big enough to eat some minutes in the Center rotation (maybe even rookie Penda), so Goga is kind of the odd man out. He filled in very admirably as a starter whenever Carter was (frequently) injured.

I don't know what makes sense coming back for ORL as they are very deep and facing a looming cap situation. Obviously, ORL just sent out lots of picks - so restocking might be the priority...I like Agbaji but it's no longer really a desperate backcourt situation anymore...I suppose a pick and an expiring(s) would be the price as both teams are over the tax line. Maybe a third team comes in to take Agbaji or Dick.

Goga isn't bringing back a 1st round pick

I'd say he's worth a late first...but TOR won't have any of those for a while. He'd be a super-solid backup and spot starter.

Raps could make it 2 2nds + Agbaji for Goga.

I think that’s roughly fair for Goga…but it makes no sense for Raps to be sending out draft picks for a backup C.

[Skybox]

Goga isn't bringing back a 1st round pick

I'd say he's worth a late first...but TOR won't have any of those for a while. He'd be a super-solid backup and spot starter.

Raps could make it 2 2nds + Agbaji for Goga.

I think that’s roughly fair for Goga…but it makes no sense for Raps to be sending out draft picks for a backup C.

I suppose the value is fair but doesn't really benefit ORL more than just maintaining that big man depth. I like Agbaji, but there's not really a clear role (all of a sudden) in ORL. I really don't think ORL would do anything until they have a look at the team and Moe Wagner returns...so, maybe at the TD, when there's a clearer picture of needs.

[gswhoops]

I'd say he's worth a late first...but TOR won't have any of those for a while. He'd be a super-solid backup and spot starter.

Raps could make it 2 2nds + Agbaji for Goga.

I think that’s roughly fair for Goga…but it makes no sense for Raps to be sending out draft picks for a backup C.

I suppose the value is fair but doesn't really benefit ORL more than just maintaining that big man depth. I like Agbaji, but there's not really a clear role (all of a sudden) in ORL. I really don't think ORL would do anything until they have a look at the team and Moe Wagner returns...so, maybe at the TD, when there's a clearer picture of needs.

That's fair. There's a lot of players who fall into that space IMO, guys who are useful and paid fairly but don't deliver enough value to be worth another team giving up a 1st round pick for.

Buddy Hield is a perfect example from my team. Good player, fair contract, absolutely not looking to dump him, but definitely not worth a 1st round pick to someone else.

[mg]

Can Agbaji handle the ball?

No definitely not a ballhandler or creator type.

He's strictly 3&D.

[Texas Chuck]

if you aren't even playable in the playoffs, its hard to imagine another team wants to make you their starter and give up meaningful value in order to do so.

He's a minute eating RS platoon center. These guys are helpful, but also not particularly hard to find. No reason at all to think he returns a first round pick.

[Skybox]

if you aren't even playable in the playoffs, its hard to imagine another team wants to make you their starter and give up meaningful value in order to do so.

He's a minute eating RS platoon center. These guys are helpful, but also not particularly hard to find. No reason at all to think he returns a first round pick.

They've got Poeltl...isn't it a reasonable assumption that they're looking for a solid reserve on a reasonable deal. I'm not pledging Goga and his $8m deal to be the savior...they should have picked the kid from Duke

or, do you think they should just get a better, younger, more well-rounded 2-way guy for less salary?

[Texas Chuck]

if you aren't even playable in the playoffs, its hard to imagine another team wants to make you their starter and give up meaningful value in order to do so.

He's a minute eating RS platoon center. These guys are helpful, but also not particularly hard to find. No reason at all to think he returns a first round pick.

They've got Poeltl...isn't it a reasonable assumption that they're looking for a solid reserve on a reasonable deal. I'm not pledging Goga and his $8m deal to be the savior...they should have picked the kid from Duke

or, do you think they should just get a better, younger, more well-rounded 2-way guy for less salary?

I think with Poeltl you don't invest significant resources into his backup unless you believe that backup is going to grow into an upgrade. Goga isn't that. Now it would be one thing if you viewed yourself a contender and you believed Goga was a perfect playoff fit for you. Dallas paid a first for Gafford because they believed he fit beautifully with Luka and he would allow Lively to go super hard defensively with a competent guy sharing the position and sure enough it worked out beautifully.

But Gafford was a unique fit offensively with the best PNR guard on the planet and while he's not a good defensive center he rebounds, provides some rim protection and has mobility so you don't have to change your defense when he's in the game.

Raptors aren't in that position and so just sign a street guy to a min deal. Don't give up resources for any backup level center until this ill-fitting roster shows that what looks really bad on paper actually works on the court.

[Skybox]

if you aren't even playable in the playoffs, its hard to imagine another team wants to make you their starter and give up meaningful value in order to do so.

He's a minute eating RS platoon center. These guys are helpful, but also not particularly hard to find. No reason at all to think he returns a first round pick.

They've got Poeltl...isn't it a reasonable assumption that they're looking for a solid reserve on a reasonable deal. I'm not pledging Goga and his $8m deal to be the savior...they should have picked the kid from Duke

or, do you think they should just get a better, younger, more well-rounded 2-way guy for less salary?

I think with Poeltl you don't invest significant resources into his backup unless you believe that backup is going to grow into an upgrade. Goga isn't that. Now it would be one thing if you viewed yourself a contender and you believed Goga was a perfect playoff fit for you. Dallas paid a first for Gafford because they believed he fit beautifully with Luka and he would allow Lively to go super hard defensively with a competent guy sharing the position and sure enough it worked out beautifully.

But Gafford was a unique fit offensively with the best PNR guard on the planet and while he's not a good defensive center he rebounds, provides some rim protection and has mobility so you don't have to change your defense when he's in the game.

Raptors aren't in that position and so just sign a street guy to a min deal. Don't give up resources for any backup level center until this ill-fitting roster shows that what looks really bad on paper actually works on the court.

so, close the thread?

I'll never get why they passed on Maluach

[Texas Chuck]

so, close the thread?

I'll never get why they passed on Maluach

Why are we closing the thread? That's just my opinion. NBA teams do all sorts of things that make zero sense to me. So I certainly can't rule out the Raptors throwing good money after bad and trading more assets for a center that doesn't make sense.

[Tripod]

They've got Poeltl...isn't it a reasonable assumption that they're looking for a solid reserve on a reasonable deal. I'm not pledging Goga and his $8m deal to be the savior...they should have picked the kid from Duke

or, do you think they should just get a better, younger, more well-rounded 2-way guy for less salary?

I think with Poeltl you don't invest significant resources into his backup unless you believe that backup is going to grow into an upgrade. Goga isn't that. Now it would be one thing if you viewed yourself a contender and you believed Goga was a perfect playoff fit for you. Dallas paid a first for Gafford because they believed he fit beautifully with Luka and he would allow Lively to go super hard defensively with a competent guy sharing the position and sure enough it worked out beautifully.

But Gafford was a unique fit offensively with the best PNR guard on the planet and while he's not a good defensive center he rebounds, provides some rim protection and has mobility so you don't have to change your defense when he's in the game.

Raptors aren't in that position and so just sign a street guy to a min deal. Don't give up resources for any backup level center until this ill-fitting roster shows that what looks really bad on paper actually works on the court.

so, close the thread?

I'll never get why they passed on Maluach

Maybe they passed on Maluach because they think CMB is going to be the better player.

[tcheco]

If Raptors trade for a center, It has to be one that can play as a PF, right? Poetl never plays more than 30 minutes a game, but he is signed for the rest of his life. So, young, playable at PF, should have 2 years at least in its contract(considering Raptors money situation).

So basically Filipowski? Not sure you can get him without adding a first

[babyjax13]

If Raptors trade for a center, It has to be one that can play as a PF, right? Poetl never plays more than 30 minutes a game, but he is signed for the rest of his life. So, young, playable at PF, should have 2 years at least in its contract(considering Raptors money situation).

So basically Filipowski? Not sure you can get him without adding a first

Filipowski really doesn't look like a full time center, either. Maybe that's what they want, but I think we value him highly. To me, that descriptions screams Jalen Smith.

[oldncreaky]

I think with Poeltl you don't invest significant resources into his backup unless you believe that backup is going to grow into an upgrade. Goga isn't that. Now it would be one thing if you viewed yourself a contender and you believed Goga was a perfect playoff fit for you. Dallas paid a first for Gafford because they believed he fit beautifully with Luka and he would allow Lively to go super hard defensively with a competent guy sharing the position and sure enough it worked out beautifully.

But Gafford was a unique fit offensively with the best PNR guard on the planet and while he's not a good defensive center he rebounds, provides some rim protection and has mobility so you don't have to change your defense when he's in the game.

Raptors aren't in that position and so just sign a street guy to a min deal. Don't give up resources for any backup level center until this ill-fitting roster shows that what looks really bad on paper actually works on the court.

so, close the thread?

I'll never get why they passed on Maluach

Maybe they passed on Maluach because they think CMB is going to be the better player.

I for one was relieved when the Raptors did not reach for Maluach or Queen in the draft; I don't like Maluach's hands, and I don't like Queen's lack of athleticism. Either way, I never assume a 9th-overall pick will make a dent in the big-man rotation in his rookie season because there's just too much to learn

As for the original question, the Raptors still have a teenager on a 2-way, and if he doesn't work out, I'm sure there will be more prospects in the next year or so. Also, Mamukaleshvilli is on a min salary as the backup C, and while Mamu may or may not be in the league next year, whatever happens to him it won't be because he is too old.

I mostly agree with TC's quote in bold above -- don't invest more in the roster until they've shown something on the court -- although I view the ill-fitting roster as more "mediocre" than "really bad" on paper.

[tcheco]

If Raptors trade for a center, It has to be one that can play as a PF, right? Poetl never plays more than 30 minutes a game, but he is signed for the rest of his life. So, young, playable at PF, should have 2 years at least in its contract(considering Raptors money situation).

So basically Filipowski? Not sure you can get him without adding a first

Filipowski really doesn't look like a full time center, either. Maybe that's what they want, but I think we value him highly. To me, that descriptions screams Jalen Smith.

Jalen Smith has zero upside, no? He is what he is. I thought the idea of the thread was to get someone to take over for Poetl with time. But I could be wrong.

I like Filipowski upside, was a good steal this last draft. I also like Jalen Smith as a 20min center/pf backup