Fair Giannis to SA Deal?

[One_and_Done]

LeBron in 2003.

That's the type of prospect you don't deal no matter what.

Harper is very definitely not that level.

You're being too binary. There are lots of young prospects you don't deal for a 31 year old Giannis.

[SkyHook]

If you would rather have Jaylen Brown than Giannis then you deserve Jaylen Brown.

There are degrees of value for top players. I'm one of the biggest Jaylen Brown fans around whose team isn't the Celtics. I've coveted him for the Jazz for years and would still give up a significant amount to acquire him. Considering all factors, Giannis's value is FAR in excess of Jaylen's, so much so that comparing the two is a laughable discussion even for Bostonians.

There are no precedents for trading a (still young) 30-year-old 2x MVP, 1x DPOY who is has been in the top-10 in MVP AND DPOY voting every single one of the past seven seasons and top-10 in MVP alone the prior two. The worst ROY in 4+ decades + filler + picks isn't even a conversation starter here. Garnett, Allen, and George all got better returns at 30+ years of age and Giannis is FAR better than all three were at the time.

Did they? Harper alone is worth more than everything the Wolves got for KG, and the Nets trade for KG was a disaster. So was the George trade. Noticing a pattern? The Ray Allen trade netted the Sonics the #5 pick, in a year where that pick was not getting you a prospect remotely as good as Harper.

You're vastly overrating Harper, who may never be as good as Al Jefferson who delivered 20+ pts and 10+ boards for years, just as you're vastly overrating Castle. The George trade may not look great in retrospect six years later, but neither side felt shortchanged; I don't know that the Clips regret it even today.

[redslastlaugh]

First, I've already said I don't think San Antonio will be a Giannis destination. That said, OF COURSE, you would trade Harper for Giannis if the opportunity presents itself

Giannis (plus one or two little moves) and you're immediately in the mix for the title. of course you did that, especially since Victor has already had one blood clot issue and repeated DVTs are career-enders. Of course you do that, Harper is not going to stand in the way of that

I just don't think Giannis will have interest in the Spurs

LeBron in 2003.

That's the type of prospect you don't deal no matter what.

Harper is very definitely not that level.

You're being too binary. There are lots of young prospects you don't deal for a 31 year old Giannis.

[One_and_Done]

There are degrees of value for top players. I'm one of the biggest Jaylen Brown fans around whose team isn't the Celtics. I've coveted him for the Jazz for years and would still give up a significant amount to acquire him. Considering all factors, Giannis's value is FAR in excess of Jaylen's, so much so that comparing the two is a laughable discussion even for Bostonians.

There are no precedents for trading a (still young) 30-year-old 2x MVP, 1x DPOY who is has been in the top-10 in MVP AND DPOY voting every single one of the past seven seasons and top-10 in MVP alone the prior two. The worst ROY in 4+ decades + filler + picks isn't even a conversation starter here. Garnett, Allen, and George all got better returns at 30+ years of age and Giannis is FAR better than all three were at the time.

Did they? Harper alone is worth more than everything the Wolves got for KG, and the Nets trade for KG was a disaster. So was the George trade. Noticing a pattern? The Ray Allen trade netted the Sonics the #5 pick, in a year where that pick was not getting you a prospect remotely as good as Harper.

You're vastly overrating Harper, who may never be as good as Al Jefferson who delivered 20+ pts and 10+ boards for years, just as you're vastly overrating Castle. The George trade may not look great in retrospect six years later, but neither side felt shortchanged; I don't know that the Clips regret it even today.

That’s like saying we don’t know if Cooper Flagg will ever be as good as Al Jefferson. Like, it’s technically possible, but that’s not a sensible approach to rating players.

Al Jefferson was a pretty overrated player. He had a lot of low post moves, which people focussed too much on, but was a poor defender bad passer, and a bit of a black hole, making him an awkward fit on a winning team. That’s probably why he only started for 3 playoff teams, all bad 1st round exit teams. He’s not a guy you want on a winning team. Comparing him to Harper is pretty insulting to be honest. At no point in Jefferson’s career did he have the value Harper had coming into the draft.

Harper was the #2 pick in a good draft, and would have gone #1 a bunch of years. He has the skillset of a guy who can become the #1 option on a contender, a player in the mold of a Harden/Cade type. Will he reach that potential? Who knows. But at this point nothing has happened to lower his stock from where he was drafted. You just don’t trade players like that unless it makes sense, and moving a 19 year old with that skillset for a 31 year old star (on a non-contending team) is pretty much insane. That is why there’s really no parallel for a move like this ever working out.

The latest spin is that the Clippers “might not regret the PG13 trade to this day”. Firstly, I think that’s clearly false. They’d definitely undo it if they could. Secondly, to the extent that they don’t regret it, it is because by doing it they got Kawhi to agree to sign also. It was a 2 for one deal. Are the Spurs also adding another top 5 player in this deal? If not, the analogy doesn’t work.

I also want to pivot back to an earlier comment someone made that I don’t think got enough criticism. I was told “well, the Spurs might not need to trade Harper to get Giannis, but that they’d be foolish to say no” or words to that effect. That makes no sense to me at all. If you can get Giannis without trading Harper, why on earth would you include him? It seems like the “foolish” thing would be to trade Harper if you don’t need to.

I don’t even think Castle is that great. If his develops a 3pt shot he’ll be a great starter. If he doesn’t, he’s more like an Iggy type off the bench. His future value is unclear, which is why the Spurs would be willing to include him. He’s a swing for the fences player, who might work out, or might not. If he was a sure thing, the Spurs wouldn’t be including 3-5 more 1sts in the trade.

[meekrab]

Is it fiscally possible to keep Giannis, Fox, and Wemby on his inevitable max extension together?

Depends what your owner's pain tolerance is.

[SkyHook]

Did they? Harper alone is worth more than everything the Wolves got for KG, and the Nets trade for KG was a disaster. So was the George trade. Noticing a pattern? The Ray Allen trade netted the Sonics the #5 pick, in a year where that pick was not getting you a prospect remotely as good as Harper.

You're vastly overrating Harper, who may never be as good as Al Jefferson who delivered 20+ pts and 10+ boards for years, just as you're vastly overrating Castle. The George trade may not look great in retrospect six years later, but neither side felt shortchanged; I don't know that the Clips regret it even today.

That’s like saying we don’t know if Cooper Flagg will ever be as good as Al Jefferson. Like, it’s technically possible, but that’s not a sensible approach to rating players.

Al Jefferson was a pretty overrated player. He had a lot of low post moves, which people focussed too much on, but was a poor defender bad passer, and a bit of a black hole, making him an awkward fit on a winning team. That’s probably why he only started for 3 playoff teams, all bad 1st round exit teams. He’s not a guy you want on a winning team. Comparing him to Harper is pretty insulting to be honest. At no point in Jefferson’s career did he have the value Harper had coming into the draft.

Harper was the #2 pick in a good draft, and would have gone #1 a bunch of years. He has the skillset of a guy who can become the #1 option on a contender, a player in the mold of a Harden/Cade type. Will he reach that potential? Who knows. But at this point nothing has happened to lower his stock from where he was drafted. You just don’t trade players like that unless it makes sense, and moving a 19 year old with that skillset for a 31 year old star (on a non-contending team) is pretty much insane. That is why there’s really no parallel for a move like this ever working out.

The latest spin is that the Clippers “might not regret the PG13 trade to this day”. Firstly, I think that’s clearly false. They’d definitely undo it if they could. Secondly, to the extent that they don’t regret it, it is because by doing it they got Kawhi to agree to sign also. It was a 2 for one deal. Are the Spurs also adding another top 5 player in this deal? If not, the analogy doesn’t work.

I also want to pivot back to an earlier comment someone made that I don’t think got enough criticism. I was told “well, the Spurs might not need to trade Harper to get Giannis, but that they’d be foolish to say no” or words to that effect. That makes no sense to me at all. If you can get Giannis without trading Harper, why on earth would you include him? It seems like the “foolish” thing would be to trade Harper if you don’t need to.

I don’t even think Castle is that great. If his develops a 3pt shot he’ll be a great starter. If he doesn’t, he’s more like an Iggy type off the bench. His future value is unclear, which is why the Spurs would be willing to include him. He’s a swing for the fences player, who might work out, or might not. If he was a sure thing, the Spurs wouldn’t be including 3-5 more 1sts in the trade.

Don't get me wrong, Harper COULD be something special, but he's not without a fair amount of bust potential. Middling athleticism, streaky-at-best shooting, a tendency toward over dribbling and missing reads, questions defensively vs higher caliber offensive players. All of these things CAN be figured out (or at least mitigated), and I hope he's successful because he's fun to watch, but he's far from a lock in my eyes.

Flagg is as close to a lock as anyone I've seen join the league since I started watching in the late 70s. The delta between him and Harper is massive.

[One_and_Done]

You're vastly overrating Harper, who may never be as good as Al Jefferson who delivered 20+ pts and 10+ boards for years, just as you're vastly overrating Castle. The George trade may not look great in retrospect six years later, but neither side felt shortchanged; I don't know that the Clips regret it even today.

That’s like saying we don’t know if Cooper Flagg will ever be as good as Al Jefferson. Like, it’s technically possible, but that’s not a sensible approach to rating players.

Al Jefferson was a pretty overrated player. He had a lot of low post moves, which people focussed too much on, but was a poor defender bad passer, and a bit of a black hole, making him an awkward fit on a winning team. That’s probably why he only started for 3 playoff teams, all bad 1st round exit teams. He’s not a guy you want on a winning team. Comparing him to Harper is pretty insulting to be honest. At no point in Jefferson’s career did he have the value Harper had coming into the draft.

Harper was the #2 pick in a good draft, and would have gone #1 a bunch of years. He has the skillset of a guy who can become the #1 option on a contender, a player in the mold of a Harden/Cade type. Will he reach that potential? Who knows. But at this point nothing has happened to lower his stock from where he was drafted. You just don’t trade players like that unless it makes sense, and moving a 19 year old with that skillset for a 31 year old star (on a non-contending team) is pretty much insane. That is why there’s really no parallel for a move like this ever working out.

The latest spin is that the Clippers “might not regret the PG13 trade to this day”. Firstly, I think that’s clearly false. They’d definitely undo it if they could. Secondly, to the extent that they don’t regret it, it is because by doing it they got Kawhi to agree to sign also. It was a 2 for one deal. Are the Spurs also adding another top 5 player in this deal? If not, the analogy doesn’t work.

I also want to pivot back to an earlier comment someone made that I don’t think got enough criticism. I was told “well, the Spurs might not need to trade Harper to get Giannis, but that they’d be foolish to say no” or words to that effect. That makes no sense to me at all. If you can get Giannis without trading Harper, why on earth would you include him? It seems like the “foolish” thing would be to trade Harper if you don’t need to.

I don’t even think Castle is that great. If his develops a 3pt shot he’ll be a great starter. If he doesn’t, he’s more like an Iggy type off the bench. His future value is unclear, which is why the Spurs would be willing to include him. He’s a swing for the fences player, who might work out, or might not. If he was a sure thing, the Spurs wouldn’t be including 3-5 more 1sts in the trade.

Don't get me wrong, Harper COULD be something special, but he's not without a fair amount of bust potential. Middling athleticism, streaky-at-best shooting, a tendency toward over dribbling and missing reads, questions defensively vs higher caliber offensive players. All of these things CAN be figured out (or at least mitigated), and I hope he's successful because he's fun to watch, but he's far from a lock in my eyes.

Flagg is as close to a lock as anyone I've seen join the league since I started watching in the late 70s. The delta between him and Harper is massive.

And Giannis could have a career ending injury tomorrow. Teams don't value players on the worst case scenario.

I also don't agree that there is a huge difference between Harper and Flagg, so that difference in evaluation is maybe where some of the disconnect is. Harper's player type is actually much more proven than Flagg tbh.

[SkyHook]

That’s like saying we don’t know if Cooper Flagg will ever be as good as Al Jefferson. Like, it’s technically possible, but that’s not a sensible approach to rating players.

Al Jefferson was a pretty overrated player. He had a lot of low post moves, which people focussed too much on, but was a poor defender bad passer, and a bit of a black hole, making him an awkward fit on a winning team. That’s probably why he only started for 3 playoff teams, all bad 1st round exit teams. He’s not a guy you want on a winning team. Comparing him to Harper is pretty insulting to be honest. At no point in Jefferson’s career did he have the value Harper had coming into the draft.

Harper was the #2 pick in a good draft, and would have gone #1 a bunch of years. He has the skillset of a guy who can become the #1 option on a contender, a player in the mold of a Harden/Cade type. Will he reach that potential? Who knows. But at this point nothing has happened to lower his stock from where he was drafted. You just don’t trade players like that unless it makes sense, and moving a 19 year old with that skillset for a 31 year old star (on a non-contending team) is pretty much insane. That is why there’s really no parallel for a move like this ever working out.

The latest spin is that the Clippers “might not regret the PG13 trade to this day”. Firstly, I think that’s clearly false. They’d definitely undo it if they could. Secondly, to the extent that they don’t regret it, it is because by doing it they got Kawhi to agree to sign also. It was a 2 for one deal. Are the Spurs also adding another top 5 player in this deal? If not, the analogy doesn’t work.

I also want to pivot back to an earlier comment someone made that I don’t think got enough criticism. I was told “well, the Spurs might not need to trade Harper to get Giannis, but that they’d be foolish to say no” or words to that effect. That makes no sense to me at all. If you can get Giannis without trading Harper, why on earth would you include him? It seems like the “foolish” thing would be to trade Harper if you don’t need to.

I don’t even think Castle is that great. If his develops a 3pt shot he’ll be a great starter. If he doesn’t, he’s more like an Iggy type off the bench. His future value is unclear, which is why the Spurs would be willing to include him. He’s a swing for the fences player, who might work out, or might not. If he was a sure thing, the Spurs wouldn’t be including 3-5 more 1sts in the trade.

Don't get me wrong, Harper COULD be something special, but he's not without a fair amount of bust potential. Middling athleticism, streaky-at-best shooting, a tendency toward over dribbling and missing reads, questions defensively vs higher caliber offensive players. All of these things CAN be figured out (or at least mitigated), and I hope he's successful because he's fun to watch, but he's far from a lock in my eyes.

Flagg is as close to a lock as anyone I've seen join the league since I started watching in the late 70s. The delta between him and Harper is massive.

And Giannis could have a career ending injury tomorrow. Teams don't value players on the worst case scenario.

I also don't agree that there is a huge difference between Harper and Flagg, so that difference in evaluation is maybe where some of the disconnect is. Harper's player type is actually much more proven than Flagg tbh.

Wise ones don't value players, particularly rookies who have yet to play in a real game, based solely on a view through rise-colored glasses either; the measured approach is somewhere in between. Evaluations of established veterans who have already proven themselves in the league are seen as far more reliable as speculative ones of novices.

We'll have to agree to (vehemently) disagree on Flagg vs Harper. That's fine.

[One_and_Done]

Don't get me wrong, Harper COULD be something special, but he's not without a fair amount of bust potential. Middling athleticism, streaky-at-best shooting, a tendency toward over dribbling and missing reads, questions defensively vs higher caliber offensive players. All of these things CAN be figured out (or at least mitigated), and I hope he's successful because he's fun to watch, but he's far from a lock in my eyes.

Flagg is as close to a lock as anyone I've seen join the league since I started watching in the late 70s. The delta between him and Harper is massive.

And Giannis could have a career ending injury tomorrow. Teams don't value players on the worst case scenario.

I also don't agree that there is a huge difference between Harper and Flagg, so that difference in evaluation is maybe where some of the disconnect is. Harper's player type is actually much more proven than Flagg tbh.

Wise ones don't value players, particularly rookies who have yet to play in a real game, based solely on a view through rise-colored glasses either; the measured approach is somewhere in between. Evaluations of established veterans who have already proven themselves in the league are seen as far more reliable as speculative ones of novices.

We'll have to agree to (vehemently) disagree on Flagg vs Harper. That's fine.

They just valued him as the #2 overall pick, despite already having 2 lead guards. They didn't show any interest in trading the pick when other teams asked, and didn't seem super interested in trading for KD or Giannis unless it was at the right price. Sounds to me like they value Harper alot. Since then nothing has changed.

Who are these 'wise teams' that traded a young prospect with this sort of value for a star over 30, and had it work out well?

[JB2]

The value seems high. If a team were offering that to maximize the remainder of a short title window then I could understand. But Spurs have a 15 year window with Wemby and rushing it now is short sighted IMO. They have the elite young core, and a ton of future assets, to build something incredibly special that is sustainable over the next decade.

[QMemphis]

Harper, Castle, salary plus picks for the Greeks. NY ant gutting they team and Nets have nothing left. Get David, Duncan, Wemby, Spurs GM and whoever else to talk to Giannis to make it happen.

I’m Grizz fan but that makes sense

[One_and_Done]

Harper, Castle, salary plus picks for the Greeks. NY ant gutting they team and Nets have nothing left. Get David, Duncan, Wemby, Spurs GM and whoever else to talk to Giannis to make it happen.

I’m Grizz fan but that makes sense

Would the Grizz have traded rookie Ja Morant for a 31 year old Giannis? Would that have made sense? The Spurs are not going to agree to include Harper, nor should they.

[pipfan]

I just think Fox/Giannis/Wemby could win two titles in the next 5 years, so it's worth it
We'd love to say Wemby has a 15 year window-but we all know that's a huge ? Guys his size often have injury issues.

Plus, Wemby/Giannis should fit together and be AWESOME on D.

Also, not sure why Giannis wouldn't want to go to SA? Does anyone know anything other than "Giannis only wants to go to NY"?

[QMemphis]

Harper, Castle, salary plus picks for the Greeks. NY ant gutting they team and Nets have nothing left. Get David, Duncan, Wemby, Spurs GM and whoever else to talk to Giannis to make it happen.

I’m Grizz fan but that makes sense

Would the Grizz have traded rookie Ja Morant for a 31 year old Giannis? Would that have made sense? The Spurs are not going to agree to include Harper, nor should they.

If I had Fox, Wemby and other solid role players absolutely. Far too often ppl expect a window to last longer than it actually does. If you have a chance to create the best front court in history of league and lock in a top 3 team for the next three years you do it. Especially if all you have to do is send assets that won’t likely materialize to be better than the Greek.

[One_and_Done]

Harper, Castle, salary plus picks for the Greeks. NY ant gutting they team and Nets have nothing left. Get David, Duncan, Wemby, Spurs GM and whoever else to talk to Giannis to make it happen.

I’m Grizz fan but that makes sense

Would the Grizz have traded rookie Ja Morant for a 31 year old Giannis? Would that have made sense? The Spurs are not going to agree to include Harper, nor should they.

If I had Fox, Wemby and other solid role players absolutely. Far too often ppl expect a window to last longer than it actually does. If you have a chance to create the best front court in history of league and lock in a top 3 team for the next three years you do it. Especially if all you have to do is send assets that won’t likely materialize to be better than the Greek.

Wemby hasn't even been to the playoffs yet. Yes, he looks like the future of the league, but going all in this early when you don't even need to is not smart poker. Even if you win, the process sucked and you got lucky. It's better to build things sustainability like OKC is doing right now. That's doubly the case when you have plenty of other assets to trade for Wemby, who if he is traded is going to be moved at some kind of discount due to the leverage his trade demand would create.

[BK_2020]

Harper, Castle, salary plus picks for the Greeks. NY ant gutting they team and Nets have nothing left. Get David, Duncan, Wemby, Spurs GM and whoever else to talk to Giannis to make it happen.

I’m Grizz fan but that makes sense

Would the Grizz have traded rookie Ja Morant for a 31 year old Giannis? Would that have made sense? The Spurs are not going to agree to include Harper, nor should they.

Are you kidding me? Yes, they would have. A front court of Giannis, JJJ, and Bruno Caboclo? Not one, not two, not three time.

[louc1970]

31 year old Giannis is much more valuable than 25 year old Jaylen Brown.

What matters is level of play far more than age.

Especially now when we see so many players playing at a high level deep into their 30's,

But as a fan of a team in your conference I hope the Spurs are like no thanks if an MVP in his prime wants to come. Unfortunately I don't believe they have a fan's attachment to young players.

Spurs could easily attach like 5 FRP's couldn't they? last time I checked they have a like a billion of them and still have plenty left over

Spurs only have 1 FRP in each draft through 2032.

[One_and_Done]

31 year old Giannis is much more valuable than 25 year old Jaylen Brown.

What matters is level of play far more than age.

Especially now when we see so many players playing at a high level deep into their 30's,

But as a fan of a team in your conference I hope the Spurs are like no thanks if an MVP in his prime wants to come. Unfortunately I don't believe they have a fan's attachment to young players.

Spurs could easily attach like 5 FRP's couldn't they? last time I checked they have a like a billion of them and still have plenty left over

Spurs only have 1 FRP in each draft through 2032.

Spurs have a bunch of other teams picks though, some of which look quite juicy.

[jayjaysee]

Would the Grizz have traded rookie Ja Morant for a 31 year old Giannis? Would that have made sense? The Spurs are not going to agree to include Harper, nor should they.

If I had Fox, Wemby and other solid role players absolutely. Far too often ppl expect a window to last longer than it actually does. If you have a chance to create the best front court in history of league and lock in a top 3 team for the next three years you do it. Especially if all you have to do is send assets that won’t likely materialize to be better than the Greek.

Wemby hasn't even been to the playoffs yet. Yes, he looks like the future of the league, but going all in this early when you don't even need to is not smart poker. Even if you win, the process sucked and you got lucky. It's better to build things sustainability like OKC is doing right now. That's doubly the case when you have plenty of other assets to trade for Wemby, who if he is traded is going to be moved at some kind of discount due to the leverage his trade demand would create.

Hard to base your team building off of OKC and ignore the Fox trade?

[jayjaysee]

31 year old Giannis is much more valuable than 25 year old Jaylen Brown.

What matters is level of play far more than age.

Especially now when we see so many players playing at a high level deep into their 30's,

But as a fan of a team in your conference I hope the Spurs are like no thanks if an MVP in his prime wants to come. Unfortunately I don't believe they have a fan's attachment to young players.

Spurs could easily attach like 5 FRP's couldn't they? last time I checked they have a like a billion of them and still have plenty left over

Spurs only have 1 FRP in each draft through 2032.

Not a SAS fan. But..

The 2030 best of Dallas/Minn pick and the 2031 Sac swap..

Those two are far enough away that it’s hard to assign them specific value.. But I’d say they’d be valued a good amount more than just a normal unprotected first.

And I think Trae with stick in Atlanta and Dyson/Zac/Jalen will keep developing and they’ll be in playoffs the next two seasons.. But until Trae does resign / the 2027 Atl pick should be seen as a decent asset.