Offers for Amir Johnson

[yunggunz]

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I realize this...however, I'm attaching a VERY GOOD contract on a VERY GOOD player with that bad contract off-setting the brunt of that. There's noway the Pistons could arbitrarily land a player of Salmons caliber with JUST expirings...Thomas is the payment of that difference and it'd only be for 2.5 years...not some 4-5 year long deadweight contract.

But we arent just talking expirings. You are trying to slip Amir Johnson in there. While I dont think Amir has a ton of trade value, I dont think any team gives up more than deadweight expirings for salmons/thomas.

[KF10]

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No he wouldnt. and kings fans need to stop arbitrarily saying that when they try to pawn him off. Kenny is a dead weight contract.

He is not THAT of a dead weight contract. IMO with a change of scenery (An uptempo team) could do wonders to K9...i.e. Adelman's Kings... (15/9/3) Yeah, he was solid with an ideal team which the currently Kings are not....

[Smills91]

I think you really underestimate how good John Salmons really is..

[Snakebites]

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Sorry, Salmons is not worth 12+ mill over the next three years. Not even close.

Exactly. Given the number of power forwards the team has, Kenny Thomas is COMPLETELY useless to the Pistons from a basketball perspective, so you have to look at it as paying 12 million for Salmons.

Salmons is a solid player, but he would be a bench player on the Pistons, and no bench player is worth that. The Pistons try to steer clear of the LT range while retaining their status as a contending team. And they do that by not doing things like what you have proposed.

Not gonna happen.

[Smills91]

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Exactly. Given the number of power forwards the team has, Kenny Thomas is COMPLETELY useless to the Pistons from a basketball perspective, so you have to look at it as paying 12 million for Salmons.

Salmons is a solid player, but he would be a bench player on the Pistons, and no bench player is worth that. The Pistons try to steer clear of the LT range while retaining their status as a contending team. And they do that by not doing things like what you have proposed.

Not gonna happen.

There's still TWO players in this deal...I'd say Salmons is worth 8-9 million a year but he's getting paid 4-5...if that's true then Kenny is only a 3-4 million dollar deal, not an unreasonable amount to land a John Salmons caliber player and Kenny provides some addition frontcourt depth.

[yunggunz]

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He is not THAT of a dead weight contract. IMO with a change of scenery (An uptempo team) could do wonders to K9...i.e. Adelman's Kings... (15/9/3) Yeah, he was solid with an ideal team which the currently Kings are not....

A) on the pistons he is absolutely dead weight

B) those number he put up were over 3 seasons ago. He has been on the decline EVERY year. His poor play is a trend indicating he is breaking down (which you would expect from an undersized PF), not an abberation. And theres no reason to believe he would do good in an uptempo system. He is old, and has lost a good deal of his athleticism.

[yunggunz]

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There's still TWO players in this deal...I'd say Salmons is worth 8-9 million a year but he's getting paid 4-5...if that's true then Kenny is only a 3-4 million dollar deal, not an unreasonable amount to land a John Salmons caliber player and Kenny provides some addition frontcourt depth.

Like everyone has said....Thomas and Salmons for deadweight expirings might be a fair deal for the right team. But thats not the deal that was proposed, and the Pistons arent that team. You simply dont (essentially) pay a bench player 12-13 mill per season.

[gswhoops]

I think you really underestimate how good John Salmons really is..

Then why don't you keep him? He's young and locked into a cheap contract...sounds like a perfect player to rebuild with...or is there perhaps a bit of classic "pump and dump" going on here?

[KF10]

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A) on the pistons he is absolutely dead weight

B) those number he put up were over 3 seasons ago. He has been on the decline EVERY year. His poor play is a trend indicating he is breaking down (which you would expect from an undersized PF), not an abberation. And theres no reason to believe he would do good in an uptempo system. He is old, and has lost a good deal of his athleticism.

a.) I agree with you on that point IMO...


b.) It is not a decline really is really due to inconsistent minutes, THAT shoulder injury, and environment.... Yeah, he is somewhat old (IIRC he's 32) but he is still athletic...

The only POSITIVE thing he does (even the Thomas' HATERS would agree) is that he is actually a GOOD/SOLID post defender/rebounder and hustles each time he plays... So, he is not THAT of a dead weight but he is EXTREMELY under performing IMO...

*Ask any Kings fans, they would agree with me, haters or not*

[Smills91]

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Then why don't you keep him? He's young and locked into a cheap contract...sounds like a perfect player to rebuild with...or is there perhaps a bit of classic "pump and dump" going on here?

Come on dude, knock it off...the Kings are LOADED at the wings and if you can't get a good offer for Bibby or Artest with Thomas then taking on EXPIRINGS with Salmons for Thomas is the next best option. Kings have Artest/Garcia/Martin/Douby/Jones who can run the 2-3 spots...so moving one will not kill them. It's called team DYNAMICS. I'd LOVE to keep Salmons, but I'd rather keep Artest more. And since Salmons has such a good contract, he's easier to move WITH Thomas than a Bibby would.

[gswhoops]

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Come on dude, knock it off...the Kings are LOADED at the wings and if you can't get a good offer for Bibby or Artest with Thomas then taking on EXPIRINGS with Salmons for Thomas is the next best option. Kings have Artest/Garcia/Martin/Douby/Jones who can run the 2-3 spots...so moving one will not kill them. It's called team DYNAMICS. I'd LOVE to keep Salmons, but I'd rather keep Artest more. And since Salmons has such a good contract, he's easier to move WITH Thomas than a Bibby would.

Kings have Martin and Artest...even if both play 35 mpg there's still ~ 25 minutes at the backup 2/3 that Salmons could fill...then since you like to pimp him as a backup 1 as well (which I'm sure he can do) there's probably another ~ 15 minutes for him there. There should be plenty of minutes for him unless I'm missing someone critical. Cisco might take some of the 3 minutes but if he can't beat out guys like Douby he's clearly not as good as you say he is.

Also, you're not taking on expirings (like everyone else in this thread is trying to tell you...you're getting a nice young player + expirings, which is a completely different animal.

I'd say Artest + Thomas could fetch you a nice young player and expirings, but not Salmons.

[loserX]

To sum up my position: if I'm the Pistons, and my offer is expirings and a good prospect, there is virtually NO WAY I'm taking back KT's stinker contract, especially if all I'm doing is upgrading my bench.

I will simply take my business elsewhere and find a MUCH less expensive deal.

[Blame Rasho]

He can't net anyone tangible given how little he has played and no matter what Dumars says... his word it is worthless given that there isn't any real production that we can solidly assess his potential of what he can do and can't on the court. He drafted Darko and Rodney White. His talent evaluation isn't infallible.

If my team were really interested in him they would offer the exact same type of player back... Ian Mahinmi. A big with unrealized potential.

[Hunter]

The bottom line is the Pistons value Amirs potential more than any other team will value his current worth.

The only way it's worth it for Detroit is if we substantially upgrade a rotation position and that isn't likely to happen. We are better off hanging onto him and hoping he's eventually able to crack the rotation. OR we could trade Maxiell for a backup C which would open up a few minutes for Amir and actually help to balance our roster.

The more reasonable (though nearly as unlikely) scenario involving Amir would be if he were included with one our starters in an attempt to upgrade that position.

[chatard5]

I would like him on the Pacers. Think the 2 teams could find anything they both like? I have read a few places that the Pistons like Foster. Ideas any1?

[Smooth32]

If Gooden can't net anyone for the Cavs, I'd look at this as an interesting deal, depending on what the Pistons are looking for:

Amir Johnson
Primoz Brezec
Walter Hermann

for

Drew Gooden
Cedric Simmons

My only fear is that Gooden is the only "sure thing" as far as production in the deal goes and Simmons looks solid, but Amir could have a bright future...

[yungal07]

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There's still TWO players in this deal...I'd say Salmons is worth 8-9 million a year but he's getting paid 4-5...if that's true then Kenny is only a 3-4 million dollar deal, not an unreasonable amount to land a John Salmons caliber player and Kenny provides some addition frontcourt depth.

You cannot be serious.

Then again, you are trying to pawn Kenny Thomas, one of the most unwanted players in the NBA, for expirings.

[Klomp]

Amir Johnson is BYC, so the deal needs to be slightly larger.

How about

DET GETS: Ryan Gomes + Michael Doleac (exp)

MIN GETS: Amir Johnson + Jarvis Hayes

WHY FOR DET: This hits the 3 and provides a back-up 5 with a couple veterans. Gomes hard-working attitude helps, and he has enough strength to log minutes at PF. This deal also gives the Pistons another mil of cap room, since they are very close to the lux.

WHY FOR MIN: Amir is a little under-sized for a center, but his athleticism might make him a nice combo with Al Jefferson. MIN doesn't mind giving up production, and is a good fit for Amir to develop, since Flip hates playing rookies.

When I first saw this thread, I was thinking something similar. However, Detroit won't include Hayes in a deal like this. Hayes is one of only 3 Pistons who have played every game this season.

However, Johnson's BYC doesn't give the Wolves much to work with

[shrink]

Good perception. I originally tried to do the deal with Amir + Ronald Murray, but the BYC keeps it from hitting by about $0.5 k. The Nazr trade gives them salaries that can't be combined, and they have good chemistry with the other guys.

Other options that I don't like for one team or another:

a. Gomes, Doleac, Madsen for Amir, Ronald Murray, Lundsey Hunter

b. Gomes, Doleac, McCants for Amir, Ronald Murray, Stuckey

c. Gomes, Greg Buckner (2 yr) for Amir, Ronald Murray

[Klomp]

I think Detroit would do c. Gomes and Buckner are both guys I think would fit in Detroit, and it's also good value for Minnesota.