Minnesota/Washington - Agent Zero finds a new home

[nate33]

Foye plays infinitely more defense than Arenas...Therefore, in my eye Foye can be better than Arenas...and in my eyes he likely will be better than Arenas...

Please.

Arenas averages twice the points per minute as Roye at a much higher TS%. Arenas was the 3rd most efficient volume scorer in the league behind only Nowitzki and Nash last year (going by ORtg). He is an elite scorer. If he keeps it up, he'll go down in history as one of the greatest backcourt scorers of all time. It's ludicrous to project that Randy Foye will "likely be better" than that. Do you realize how hard it is to average 28 points per game with a TS% of 57%?

And the extent of Arenas' bad defense is overstated. He suffered from being in a bad defensive scheme while also carrying the scoring load for a team that was downright terrible when he was off the floor. His defensive stats are actually pretty decent, and he played good D in the first 8 games this season before his injury (now that they have a real defensive scheme).

[revprodeji]

I like Arenas as a fan, and he is a great talent, but I do not want to build a team around a pg that is known for being a 3pt chucker with a career average of less than 6 assists a game, yet still gets 3.4 TO a game.

But being that he is 26 the deal would be very tempting and for the sake of value alone I would consider it. IF he was resigned, but right now it appears we would be renting him and I would rather stick with Foye.

[deeney0]

Much better TS%? Again, in his last month of play (which I think is the most accurate way to look at it for Foye's rookie season, that's the only time he was really a total part of the offense) he had a TS% of 66.6%. That's outstanding. So far this year, Arenas is at 51.2%.

[yungal07]

I like Arenas as a fan, and he is a great talent, but I do not want to build a team around a pg that is known for being a 3pt chucker with a career average of less than 6 assists a game, yet still gets 3.4 TO a game.

Wolves fans are as delusional as their GM it seems.

How is Arenas is a "3 pt chucker" as you so elequently put it if HE MAKES THEM? That's like saying Dwight Howard is a dunk chucker.

Secondly, do you realize that Foye is on the road to averaging 3 assists per game for his career? Even in good stretches of play, he couldn't manage to average 5 a game. So in other words, Foye doesn't pass nor score nearly as effectively as Arenas, even in his best stretches.

[deeney0]

There's no reason for Arenas bashing. He is definitely one of the four or five best scorers in the league.

But using Foye's rookie stats to say something about how he's going to play his whole career doesn't paint an accurate picture. He was not a huge part of the team until the end of March, when the Wolves finally more or less gave up on Mike James for good. Look at what Foye did in April as an indication of what he will provide.

[shrink]

Its too soon for MIN to consider Iggy. Wait until Summer 2009, and MIN will have an idea if any of their cheap lottery swingmen are going to play the Iggy role.

substitute "Gilbert Arneas" for Iguodala and substitute "Foye and their potential high draft pick" for "swingman"


And btw yungal .. you shouldn't have included Foye's name in your "heap of trash" quote. I don't know how good he's going to be, but he's not trash

[nate33]

Much better TS%? Again, in his last month of play (which I think is the most accurate way to look at it for Foye's rookie season, that's the only time he was really a total part of the offense) he had a TS% of 66.6%. That's outstanding. So far this year, Arenas is at 51.2%.

I can't believe I'm really having this conversation.

You are honestly going to use a 10-game stretch of meaningless garbage time games, in which Foye started in just 2 games and averaged just 28 minutes a game, as proxy for his career?

By the way, Minnesota went 2-8 during that month, including a 6-game losing streak. They lost by an average of 12 points per game.

Oh yeah, and Foye averaged 4.3 turnovers per 40 minutes during that stretch while only scoring 21.6 points and dishing out 5.3 assists (per 40). For the entire season, Arenas averaged just 3.1 turnovers while scoring 28.1 points and dishing out 5.9 assists (on a per 40 basis).

[deeney0]

I'd say Minnesota went 8-2, since they were obviously tanking. Those are the only games Foye was a consistent part of the offense, so it's the only games that can be used as a barometer.

Oh, and Foye was a rookie. Shall we compare that month to the best month Arenas had as a rookie?

[yungal07]

I'd say Minnesota went 8-2, since they were obviously tanking. Those are the only games Foye was a consistent part of the offense, so it's the only games that can be used as a barometer.

Oh, and Foye was a rookie. Shall we compare that month to the best month Arenas had as a rookie?

Arenas' April (rookie season): 16.6 ppg, 6.1 apg, 4.8 rpg, .472% fgp, 30 turnovers

Foye's April (rookie season): 15.4 ppg, 3.8 apg, 3.8 aog, 53% fgp, 31 turnover

other than the shooting percentage, who played better?

[deeney0]

Looks pretty damn even to me. Differences in points, rebounds, and TOs there are just noise. Washington fans will point out the assists. Minnesota fans will point out the FG%.

[shrink]

Arenas' April (rookie season): 16.6 ppg, 6.1 apg, 4.8 rpg, .472% fgp, 30 turnovers

Foye's April (rookie season): 15.4 ppg, 3.8 apg, 3.8 aog, 53% fgp, 31 turnover

other than the shooting percentage, who played better?

Can I see minutes played?

Anyway, I don't think it proves anything either way, but here are their two rookie years:

Arenas 24.6 MPG 45.3% FG, 34.5% 3PT, 77.5% FT, 2.8 RPG, 3.7 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 2.4 TO, 10.9 PPG

RFoye 22.9 MPG 43.4% FG, 36.8% 3PT, 85.4% FT, 2.7 RPG, 2.8 APG, 0.6 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 1.8 TO, 10.1 PPG

[yungal07]

Looks pretty damn even to me. Differences in points, rebounds, and TOs there are just noise. Washington fans will point out the assists. Minnesota fans will point out the FG%.

No I think Arenas' numbers are much better for a point guard. 2 to 1 ast to TO ratio, more scoring, more rebounding. Arenas just had superior numbers all around.

[nate33]

Let's try it this way: Arenas at age 22-1/2 (2004-05 season) versus Foye at age 23:

Code: Select all

Player        PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
arenas,gilbe 24.4  4.5  4.9  1.7  0.3  2.9 .498 .565 21.4
foye,randy   17.9  4.7  5.0  1.1  0.5  3.3 .483 .536 13.9

These are pace-adjusted per-40 numbers

[Hail2theRedskin]

lol i cant believe that this is actually a discussion. when foye averages 20 a game come back

[shrink]

Its a pointless discussion anyway. Would low numbers as a rookie show Chauncey Billups is awful? Arenas grew, and we don't know if Foye will grow or not.

[deeney0]

I'm not sure what I'm trying to prove. I conceded on page two that, ignoring contracts, of course the Wolves should trade Foye for Arenas. The only two points I disagree with were 1) claiming Arenas had a significantly better TS% - I don't think that will hold true, Foye is a very efficient scorer, as he showed last April and 2) Randy Foye can't be a star - will he be a star? Who knows. Can he be? He has the tools, and his April numbers back that up.

[Benjammin]

I feel dumber for having read this thread, sort of a cross between a love child GM pairing of Wes Unseld and Elgin Baylor.

[dunkonu21]

It has nothing to do with Wolves fans thinking Foye is a better player...Arenas doesn't play defense and most Minny fans appreciate defense and don't want our best player to be a guy who says "defense is overrated"....It's as simple as that...You can't put Arenas' defense into stats, but I'm pretty sure he brings the whole teams D to a bad level...

[kandiking]

this sucks for both teams.

[yungal07]

It has nothing to do with Wolves fans thinking Foye is a better player...Arenas doesn't play defense and most Minny fans appreciate defense and don't want our best player to be a guy who says "defense is overrated"....It's as simple as that...You can't put Arenas' defense into stats, but I'm pretty sure he brings the whole teams D to a bad level...

You make yourself look dumber and dumber everytime you post...

btw you're best player now is an awful defender.

I think you should make your way back to the T-Pups board...