Wall blasting off who wants him ?

[NYG]

KP for Wiggins has been discussed to death; neither side likes it. From our perspective we definitely need a reliable wing more than a higher ceiling/lower floor big

And Dallas needs the opposite now that we hope we have added a couple of competent vet wings.

But I'd much rather flip KP for Wiggins than flip KP/Brunson for Wall and the 23 Bucks 1st. Unprotected picks always have some intrigue but unless something happens to Giannis that pick is unlikely to have a chance to land in the top 4 and it would need to in order to justify this for Dallas.

Wall seems like a nut low pairing with Luka even if he somewhat returned to form. But that's not a reasonable expectation at this point. So Brunson for that pick is probably pretty fair, but Dallas should prefer the player but KP for Wall feels like a big on court loss.

I think Dallas could pull off Wall and '23 Bucks 1st for KP and Powell... Houston has very limited options and if it costs them one pick to try out a KP/Wood shooting duo, I think Porzingis still holds the value in that deal much like Westbrook did in the previous Wall deal.

[Texas Chuck]

What pick(s) gets Wall and House for KP, Burke and Powell done for Houston?

None they would be willing to give up.

[Texas Chuck]

KP for Wiggins has been discussed to death; neither side likes it. From our perspective we definitely need a reliable wing more than a higher ceiling/lower floor big

And Dallas needs the opposite now that we hope we have added a couple of competent vet wings.

But I'd much rather flip KP for Wiggins than flip KP/Brunson for Wall and the 23 Bucks 1st. Unprotected picks always have some intrigue but unless something happens to Giannis that pick is unlikely to have a chance to land in the top 4 and it would need to in order to justify this for Dallas.

Wall seems like a nut low pairing with Luka even if he somewhat returned to form. But that's not a reasonable expectation at this point. So Brunson for that pick is probably pretty fair, but Dallas should prefer the player but KP for Wall feels like a big on court loss.

I think Dallas could pull off Wall and '23 Bucks 1st for KP and Powell... Houston has very limited options and if it costs them one pick to try out a KP/Wood shooting duo, I think Porzingis still holds the value in that deal much like Westbrook did in the previous Wall deal.

Why is Dallas doing this though? I don't know that Houston is either as we have no reason to think they want KP and his extra year. But Dallas gets a lot worse for what needs a significant Giannis injury to be a valuable pick. And I don't see Dallas saying let's punt 1/3 of the cap for 2 years on Wall to get that pick. we are on Luka watch every second of the day. I'm not like the Wolves fans who see 3 more years of Towns so lets keep being patient and bad. Dallas must have urgency now. Not taking big steps back.

[NYG]

And Dallas needs the opposite now that we hope we have added a couple of competent vet wings.

But I'd much rather flip KP for Wiggins than flip KP/Brunson for Wall and the 23 Bucks 1st. Unprotected picks always have some intrigue but unless something happens to Giannis that pick is unlikely to have a chance to land in the top 4 and it would need to in order to justify this for Dallas.

Wall seems like a nut low pairing with Luka even if he somewhat returned to form. But that's not a reasonable expectation at this point. So Brunson for that pick is probably pretty fair, but Dallas should prefer the player but KP for Wall feels like a big on court loss.

I think Dallas could pull off Wall and '23 Bucks 1st for KP and Powell... Houston has very limited options and if it costs them one pick to try out a KP/Wood shooting duo, I think Porzingis still holds the value in that deal much like Westbrook did in the previous Wall deal.

Why is Dallas doing this though? I don't know that Houston is either as we have no reason to think they want KP and his extra year. But Dallas gets a lot worse for what needs a significant Giannis injury to be a valuable pick. And I don't see Dallas saying let's punt 1/3 of the cap for 2 years on Wall to get that pick. we are on Luka watch every second of the day. I'm not like the Wolves fans who see 3 more years of Towns so lets keep being patient and bad. Dallas must have urgency now. Not taking big steps back.

Yeah, I guess you would need some kind of THJ, '22 and '27 Dallas 1st for a clear upgrade kind of follow-up deal for it to make sense.

[Texas Chuck]

I think Dallas could pull off Wall and '23 Bucks 1st for KP and Powell... Houston has very limited options and if it costs them one pick to try out a KP/Wood shooting duo, I think Porzingis still holds the value in that deal much like Westbrook did in the previous Wall deal.

Why is Dallas doing this though? I don't know that Houston is either as we have no reason to think they want KP and his extra year. But Dallas gets a lot worse for what needs a significant Giannis injury to be a valuable pick. And I don't see Dallas saying let's punt 1/3 of the cap for 2 years on Wall to get that pick. we are on Luka watch every second of the day. I'm not like the Wolves fans who see 3 more years of Towns so lets keep being patient and bad. Dallas must have urgency now. Not taking big steps back.

Yeah, I guess you would need some kind of THJ, '22 and '27 Dallas 1st for a clear upgrade kind of follow-up deal for it to make sense.

That doesn't make it any better. Dallas can do that already if they want without punting their starting center for a guy who would be PG3 on the depth chart and who doesn't fit playing with Luka on really any level.

KP is flawed and will miss too many games. But when he plays he's quite useful because now Dallas plays 4 legit shooters with Luka putting defenses in a terrible position. Taking him out, sliding Maxi and Dorian up a spot and inserting Wall feels like a much worse offense and doesn't do anything for the defense either.

[NYG]

Why is Dallas doing this though? I don't know that Houston is either as we have no reason to think they want KP and his extra year. But Dallas gets a lot worse for what needs a significant Giannis injury to be a valuable pick. And I don't see Dallas saying let's punt 1/3 of the cap for 2 years on Wall to get that pick. we are on Luka watch every second of the day. I'm not like the Wolves fans who see 3 more years of Towns so lets keep being patient and bad. Dallas must have urgency now. Not taking big steps back.

Yeah, I guess you would need some kind of THJ, '22 and '27 Dallas 1st for a clear upgrade kind of follow-up deal for it to make sense.

That doesn't make it any better. Dallas can do that already if they want without punting their starting center for a guy who would be PG3 on the depth chart and who doesn't fit playing with Luka on really any level.

KP is flawed and will miss too many games. But when he plays he's quite useful because now Dallas plays 4 legit shooters with Luka putting defenses in a terrible position. Taking him out, sliding Maxi and Dorian up a spot and inserting Wall feels like a much worse offense and doesn't do anything for the defense either.

I meant the unprotected Bucks '23 allowing them to trade their own '22 again if that added enough incentive to a deal.

[Texas Chuck]

I meant the unprotected Bucks '23 allowing them to trade their own '22 again if that added enough incentive to a deal.

Gotchas. IT doesn't change it for me because as you know on this board despite them not picking that low since Dirk's prime, Mavs 1sts are automatically valued at pick 25.

For Dallas to do a deal like this it requires them to view KP as not just a bad contract, but essentially worthless as a player. And as much as this board hates him, he's not reached the level of being a worthless player. Wall was terrible last year and figures to be worse trying to play off ball next to Luka something he's never had to do and whose game doesn't translate to make us think he could.

And for all his past defensive reputation he was never a great defender merely a good one, but that's been 4 years ago now. And that's just not ever coming back at this point.

[Snakebites]

Feels like a Blake Griffin situation- no team is going to take that contract on without substantial draft compensation coming back, and being a rebuilding team Houston isn't interested in attaching draft assets.

We all know how the Blake saga ended. Lets see if this sees a different end.

[Dadouv47]

I meant the unprotected Bucks '23 allowing them to trade their own '22 again if that added enough incentive to a deal.

Gotchas. IT doesn't change it for me because as you know on this board despite them not picking that low since Dirk's prime, Mavs 1sts are automatically valued at pick 25.

For Dallas to do a deal like this it requires them to view KP as not just a bad contract, but essentially worthless as a player. And as much as this board hates him, he's not reached the level of being a worthless player. Wall was terrible last year and figures to be worse trying to play off ball next to Luka something he's never had to do and whose game doesn't translate to make us think he could.

And for all his past defensive reputation he was never a great defender merely a good one, but that's been 4 years ago now. And that's just not ever coming back at this point.

Pretty much. Think Dallas should trade KP ASAP but Wall would be such a terrible fit alongside Doncic. Doesn't make any sense for the Mavs.

[Texas Chuck]

Feels like a Blake Griffin situation- no team is going to take that contract on without substantial draft compensation coming back, and being a rebuilding team Houston isn't interested in attaching draft assets.

We all know how the Blake saga ended. Lets see if this sees a different end.

Yeah if Houston and Wall leaked this right before free agency, Wall's agent might could have found an MLE deal for him(I've seen at least one poster itt suggesting that's his value) and then he gives up $10M a year and Houston cuts their losses there. Waiting this long the teams that have their MLE aren't going to give it to Wall I wouldn't think so they are stuck.

[bondom34]

Yeah think I'm with what (I believe) K_Chile22 said earlier and Snakebites. Guessing he stays the year, then a buyout.

[Texas Chuck]

Pretty much. Think Dallas should trade KP ASAP

I think that ship has already sailed. There is no chance to get back a player who helps as much as him on the court when he plays and there is no point to expiring contracts now that they gave out the contracts they did this off-season including Luka's supermax.

So the only deal likely out there is just dealing him for a lessor player with less health risk. No point to just lowering the ceiling further. Much better to just hope his stretch of good health comes 65 games in and holds through the playoffs.

Can't get better trading him though. He's negative value.

[LAL1947]

KP is flawed and will miss too many games. But when he plays he's quite useful because now Dallas plays 4 legit shooters with Luka putting defenses in a terrible position. Taking him out, sliding Maxi and Dorian up a spot and inserting Wall feels like a much worse offense and doesn't do anything for the defense either.

Agreed. A Porzingis-Wall swap seems like a bad move that sends Dallas 2 steps backward (while a Porzingis-Wiggins swap sends them 1 step backward). Besides, Porzingis has been putting in work this off-season, so will hopefully have a bounce back year that restores his value. I'd much rather see Dallas stick by KP here.

[Apz]

KP for Wiggins has been discussed to death; neither side likes it. From our perspective we definitely need a reliable wing more than a higher ceiling/lower floor big

And Dallas needs the opposite now that we hope we have added a couple of competent vet wings.

But I'd much rather flip KP for Wiggins than flip KP/Brunson for Wall and the 23 Bucks 1st. Unprotected picks always have some intrigue but unless something happens to Giannis that pick is unlikely to have a chance to land in the top 4 and it would need to in order to justify this for Dallas.

Wall seems like a nut low pairing with Luka even if he somewhat returned to form. But that's not a reasonable expectation at this point. So Brunson for that pick is probably pretty fair, but Dallas should prefer the player but KP for Wall feels like a big on court loss.

I think Dallas could pull off Wall and '23 Bucks 1st for KP and Powell... Houston has very limited options and if it costs them one pick to try out a KP/Wood shooting duo, I think Porzingis still holds the value in that deal much like Westbrook did in the previous Wall deal.

No they wouldnt. Wall is just a horrible fit with luka and as much risk as kp. Even if houston added 2 of their own unprotected 1sts I am not sure mavs should do it.

This is just so bad for mavs

[Resistance]

Yeah think I'm with what (I believe) K_Chile22 said earlier and Snakebites. Guessing he stays the year, then a buyout.

That is the logical expectation.

It is doubtful that all of their young players (Porter, Green etc) will be ready to take the next step which would be to try for the playoffs for the 2022-23 season.

If they bundle enough picks with Wall to have significant cap space in summer 2022, then they would more likely be taking in bad salary for compensation rather than pursuing a good to really good player to take their youngsters to the next level.

Sending out draft picks to dump Wall so they can sell/rent cap space next summer makes no sense unless they know that the picks they could get next summer would be better than the picks they are including in a Wall trade this season.

[Pointgod]

KP for Wiggins has been discussed to death; neither side likes it. From our perspective we definitely need a reliable wing more than a higher ceiling/lower floor big

And Dallas needs the opposite now that we hope we have added a couple of competent vet wings.

But I'd much rather flip KP for Wiggins than flip KP/Brunson for Wall and the 23 Bucks 1st. Unprotected picks always have some intrigue but unless something happens to Giannis that pick is unlikely to have a chance to land in the top 4 and it would need to in order to justify this for Dallas.

Wall seems like a nut low pairing with Luka even if he somewhat returned to form. But that's not a reasonable expectation at this point. So Brunson for that pick is probably pretty fair, but Dallas should prefer the player but KP for Wall feels like a big on court loss.

The Mavs have to be careful with KP before he becomes a contract that you have to attach an asset to in order to move. I’ll call it right now and proclaim that KP is a poor fit long term with Luka for one or more of the following reasons:

1. Health
2. Fit (Mavs need KP to be a number 2 option but that’s not his strength)
3. KP putting in the effort to get better

Those remaining years are going to make him hard to move unless he puts up a monster playoff performance and getting John Wall allows them to clear his salary a year early or have an expiring contracts and additional picks to facilitate a trade. Brunson is a fine back up but he’s up for extension and loses some trade value once he’s extended on the Mavs terms not another team’s. Mavs aren’t contending this season so they should spend the year making the moves, collecting the assets needed to land the player that’s going to propel them into contender status.

[LarsV8]

Happy to move Wall wherever he wants to go for expirings or two year deals.

Not giving up assets.

If he can't find a team, he can sit out two years, or one and decline is PO.

[Tomjas]

I would be amazed if Wall gives up massive coin THIS YEAR so he’s probably on the Rockets until next season

Same with Love and the Cavs

[K_chile22]

They probably don't jump at it I don't think, but the only trade that makes some sense is the clippers deal with Bledsoe, Ibaka and Kennard. Rockets send House back and maybe a protected FRP swap option in 2028 so LAC has a slightly more attractive trade piece to use for sweetener?

Tim McMahon made it clear the rockets don't want Kennard on their books though, so maybe they'd flip him and Gordon to Cleveland for Love to not impact 2023 space? Cleveland probably won't have space then anyways so Kennards deal doesn't hurt them. EG can play some three for them and expires the same time love did

[K_chile22]

How attached to Horford are the Celtics? Saw an offer on Twitter that I don't think they would do but:

Clippers send Ibaka, Morris, Bledsoe
Clippers get: Wall, BOS 2022 1st

Rockets send: Wall, House
Rockets get: Horford, Ibaka, Morris

Celtics send Horford, 2022 1st
Celtics get: Morris, House


I can't tell if that's awful or really good