Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole

[gswhoops]

Unless I'm reading the CBA incorrectly (always possible), the league can't suspend Kawhi. They can suspend any "Team personnel found to have willfully engaged" for up to 1 year.

Page 341 starts the Penalties section if anyone wants to read it.

I haven't read the CBA in depth but I'm sure there's a generic "conduct detrimental to the league" clause that they could use to suspend him. If I were him though, I'd be more worried about the league voiding my contract.

Agree that it is "conduct detrimental to the league".

Given the lack of cap space right now, Kawhi would lose most of a year's salary if his contract is voided.

And I'm not that sympathetic to Leonard. There is no way this arrangement could be made without him knowing about it, and why it was being done i.e. to circumvent the salary cap. The precedent is important, and if Kawhi ends up profiting from this set up then others will try something similar (just with more plausible deniability).

[MoneyTalks41890]

Unless I'm reading the CBA incorrectly (always possible), the league can't suspend Kawhi. They can suspend any "Team personnel found to have willfully engaged" for up to 1 year.

Page 341 starts the Penalties section if anyone wants to read it.

I haven't read the CBA in depth but I'm sure there's a generic "conduct detrimental to the league" clause that they could use to suspend him. If I were him though, I'd be more worried about the league voiding my contract.

Agree that it is "conduct detrimental to the league".

Given the lack of cap space right now, Kawhi would lose most of a year's salary if his contract is voided.

And I'm not that sympathetic to Leonard. There is no way this arrangement could be made without him knowing about it, and why it was being done i.e. to circumvent the salary cap. The precedent is important, and if Kawhi ends up profiting from this set up then others will try something similar (just with more plausible deniability).

Yeah I don’t see how practically KL’s contract could get voided at this point in the calendar. Big fines on both the team and Kawhi would be roughly proportionate, with KL and team officials also getting suspensions. And team pick forfeits.

If Kawhi is suspended for conduct detrimental does he still get paid generally?

However, while I think those are the right sanctions, this could get nasty pretty quick, because a lot of players have endorsement deals, and I’m willing to bet there’s some real gray area out there for a number of league players.

[gswhoops]

I haven't read the CBA in depth but I'm sure there's a generic "conduct detrimental to the league" clause that they could use to suspend him. If I were him though, I'd be more worried about the league voiding my contract.

Agree that it is "conduct detrimental to the league".

Given the lack of cap space right now, Kawhi would lose most of a year's salary if his contract is voided.

And I'm not that sympathetic to Leonard. There is no way this arrangement could be made without him knowing about it, and why it was being done i.e. to circumvent the salary cap. The precedent is important, and if Kawhi ends up profiting from this set up then others will try something similar (just with more plausible deniability).

Yeah I don’t see how practically KL’s contract could get voided at this point in the calendar. Big fines on both the team and Kawhi would be roughly proportionate, with KL and team officials also getting suspensions. And team pick forfeits.

If Kawhi is suspended for conduct detrimental does he still get paid generally?

However, while I think those are the right sanctions, this could get nasty pretty quick, because a lot of players have endorsement deals, and I’m willing to bet there’s some real gray area out there for a number of league players.

I believe that if Kawhi is suspended "for cause" he doesn't get paid, but I'm not 100% on that.

A year-long suspension would cost Kawhi roughly the amount he allegedly got paid under this deal so that feels like cosmic justice. Agent gets suspended, Ballmer/Clippers pay a huge fine and forfeit a bunch of draft picks.

[Slava]

If Pablo got tipped by one of his Harvard friends in the justice department, it’s probably because something major is coming from the feds. Considering the current political climate, the feds are going to take the NBA for a wild ride.

[MoneyTalks41890]

If Pablo got tipped by one of his Harvard friends in the justice department, it’s probably because something major is coming from the feds. Considering the current political climate, the feds are going to take the NBA for a wild ride.

Unfortunately I think this is a good read

[Mavrelous]

If Pablo got tipped by one of his Harvard friends in the justice department, it’s probably because something major is coming from the feds. Considering the current political climate, the feds are going to take the NBA for a wild ride.

I hope so, the more of things like this are uncovered the better.

[toooskies]

If Pablo got tipped by one of his Harvard friends in the justice department, it’s probably because something major is coming from the feds. Considering the current political climate, the feds are going to take the NBA for a wild ride.

I hope so, the more of things like this are uncovered the better.

If there's one thing I'm certain of, it's that Ballmer can make a legal investigation into under-the-table payments go away with an under-the-table payment to the current president.

[Mavrelous]

If Pablo got tipped by one of his Harvard friends in the justice department, it’s probably because something major is coming from the feds. Considering the current political climate, the feds are going to take the NBA for a wild ride.

I hope so, the more of things like this are uncovered the better.

If there's one thing I'm certain of, it's that Ballmer can make a legal investigation into under-the-table payments go away with an under-the-table payment to the current president.

Microsoft is one of the largest govwrnment contractots in the world, they didn't reach that based on the quality of their products and Ballmer has been apolitocal, no doubt in my mind he can buy justice, but this reached public eye now, interesting how they will sweep it under the rug.

[jbk1234]

I hope so, the more of things like this are uncovered the better.

If there's one thing I'm certain of, it's that Ballmer can make a legal investigation into under-the-table payments go away with an under-the-table payment to the current president.

Microsoft is one of the largest govwrnment contractots in the world, they didn't reach that based on the quality of their products and Ballmer has been apolitocal, no doubt in my mind he can buy justice, but this reached public eye now, interesting how they will sweep it under the rug.

I think what people are missing is that there are 30 ownership groups, Ballmer represents but one of them, they all agreed to pay by a certain set of rules, and Silver serves at the pleasure of a majority of the owners.

There aren't 16 ownership groups that will be okay with circumventing cap restrictions.

[Texas Chuck]

There aren't 16 ownership groups that will be okay with circumventing cap restrictions.

You sure? Because their motivation is different than yours. I mean Cuban is no longer one of the 30 but he's already come out supporting Ballmer. We've had reports about the Raptors being willing to do some shady stuff to keep Kawhi.

Discovery is something I'm sure more than 16 of the 30 would really like to avoid. For all kinds of reasons.

I hope the governors demand he be held to account. But I think that's fair from a fait accompli and I think it would be naive to belief otherwise.

[babyjax13]

There aren't 16 ownership groups that will be okay with circumventing cap restrictions.

You sure? Because their motivation is different than yours. I mean Cuban is no longer one of the 30 but he's already come out supporting Ballmer. We've had reports about the Raptors being willing to do some shady stuff to keep Kawhi.

Discovery is something I'm sure more than 16 of the 30 would really like to avoid. For all kinds of reasons.

I hope the governors demand he be held to account. But I think that's fair from a fait accompli and I think it would be naive to belief otherwise.

Regardless, it will be interesting. I think I agree with jbk that most governors are not going to approve, but you never know.

My expectation, honestly, is that there are repercussions that matter, but likely not as debilitating as what the league did with Joe Smith. I am not sure they want to neuter a franchise in that way, it effectively prevented good teambuilding around Garnett.

[gswhoops]

There aren't 16 ownership groups that will be okay with circumventing cap restrictions.

You sure? Because their motivation is different than yours. I mean Cuban is no longer one of the 30 but he's already come out supporting Ballmer. We've had reports about the Raptors being willing to do some shady stuff to keep Kawhi.

Discovery is something I'm sure more than 16 of the 30 would really like to avoid. For all kinds of reasons.

I hope the governors demand he be held to account. But I think that's fair from a fait accompli and I think it would be naive to belief otherwise.

I think there's two overlapping, but distinct, problems Silver has to solve with whatever remedial action the league takes against Ballmer/the Clippers:

1) The other 29 owners' perception of fairness and whether they'll continue to support Silver as commissioner; and
2) The public's perception of the league being "fair" as opposed to a league where 5 teams get whatever they want and everyone else is just the Washington Generals

[toooskies]

There aren't 16 ownership groups that will be okay with circumventing cap restrictions.

You sure? Because their motivation is different than yours. I mean Cuban is no longer one of the 30 but he's already come out supporting Ballmer. We've had reports about the Raptors being willing to do some shady stuff to keep Kawhi.

Discovery is something I'm sure more than 16 of the 30 would really like to avoid. For all kinds of reasons.

I hope the governors demand he be held to account. But I think that's fair from a fait accompli and I think it would be naive to belief otherwise.

Regardless, it will be interesting. I think I agree with jbk that most governors are not going to approve, but you never know.

My expectation, honestly, is that there are repercussions that matter, but likely not as debilitating as what the league did with Joe Smith. I am not sure they want to neuter a franchise in that way, it effectively prevented good teambuilding around Garnett.

The Governors of the NBA need to realize a bigger picture. They might NEED the off-the-books bribery, over a certain period. (Or they might need to simply do away with a large amount of the cap/tax rules).

The best players in the game are not American, and thus have less loyalty towards the US market. LeBron James is talking to European agents about leagues to rival the NBA. Money from the Middle East is eventually going to come for all the best players. The NBA puts limits on how competitive the US franchises can be with that other league. The US is becoming less welcoming to immigrants.

Real competition to the NBA isn't here yet and it might not ever reach viability, but a strict salary cap right now means that teams can't compete with foreign markets if it does come.

[Scoot McGroot]

I wouldn’t say that Joe Smith is a direct comparison. Joe Smith was a specific situation where they circumvented the cap to eventually get Joe bird rights to sign him to a max, and, most important, had a specific contract written up to this agreement. This situation is that Ballmer allegedly had a sponsor (that he invested in) funnel money to the player that allowed Ballmer to later pay lower raises than the maximum 8% over Kawhi’s salary cap maximum.

Similar in that there’s circumvention of the cap, but in different manners. The Joe Smith part allowed Minnesota to acquire him at all, whereas Kawhi was already employed by the Clippers when this deal happened.

Now, there’s always the chance that Ballmer had an under the table agreement to pay Kawhi extra before the acquired him, but we need to find that out, too.

[Clav]

There aren't 16 ownership groups that will be okay with circumventing cap restrictions.

You sure? Because their motivation is different than yours. I mean Cuban is no longer one of the 30 but he's already come out supporting Ballmer. We've had reports about the Raptors being willing to do some shady stuff to keep Kawhi.

Discovery is something I'm sure more than 16 of the 30 would really like to avoid. For all kinds of reasons.

I hope the governors demand he be held to account. But I think that's fair from a fait accompli and I think it would be naive to belief otherwise.

On the topic of discovery --- I really feel like Chuck's onto something here because other teams may have similar situations at play, and maybe they don't really want an investigation.

Public outcry will be heightened if govs are resisting investigation on this, and surely the NBAPA will have something to say. Wouldn't the Union be against this?

I'm really interested to see where this all goes, hope govs of other teams pile on LAC (Despite that... I think Clippers are in a losing position to convince other teams to side with them if they are backchanneling lol).

[jayjaysee]

Feels like this should have been hidden better.. My personal LLC to your personal LLC.

[jbk1234]

There aren't 16 ownership groups that will be okay with circumventing cap restrictions.

You sure? Because their motivation is different than yours. I mean Cuban is no longer one of the 30 but he's already come out supporting Ballmer. We've had reports about the Raptors being willing to do some shady stuff to keep Kawhi.

Discovery is something I'm sure more than 16 of the 30 would really like to avoid. For all kinds of reasons.

I hope the governors demand he be held to account. But I think that's fair from a fait accompli and I think it would be naive to belief otherwise.

There's a 2nd apron because enough ownership groups didn't want to compete with a Warriors-level payroll in perpetuity - despite receiving the luxury tax payments. There is no ancillary benefit to the other ownership groups derived from what Ballmer did, only disadvantage.

Do I think that a guy like Prokhorov might bristle at the thought of a thorough, league-wide investigation? Gven the Durant/Kyrie sidepiece-apartment reporting that was out there, sure. Do I believe there will be a league-wide investigation? For a variety of reasons, no

Moreover, the Leonard payment is not footing the bill for love nests. This is here's a giant stack of money on the side in a blatant, borderline clownish attempt to undermine the entirety of the CBA. Cuban is a libertarian billionaire, several times over, who sold his majority interest to a casino. I don't believe he's representative of the the current ownership groups. He's been a public outlier on things like PPDs. The league didn't follow.

The luxury tax penalties have gotten steeper every CBA. The cap has gotten harder with every CBA. There's a reason for that.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Read on Twitter

[Troubadour]

How the NBA responds to this will likely shape the future of the league and trust in competitive balance. I don't for a second believe this is the first and only time something like this has happened. It's gross.

[jbk1234]

Read on Twitter

This raises as many questions as it answers - like how much did the company actually pay when sponsoring the Clippers. The contract was for $300M, but they defaulted after two seasons. If Ballmer gave $50M, Leonard got $28M, and the Clippers got back at least $12M, then Ballmer is in no way cleared.