Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[Godaddycurse]

Part 1: Charlotte and New York agree to release the protection on the CHA 2022 1st owed to the Knicks for Kai Jones (currently top 18 protected for 2 years, then lotto protected for 2 years, then 2nds). This benefits the Knicks as it guarantees a pick this year, and Charlotte so they can free up their other picks.

Part 2:

Charlotte trades: Gordon Hayward, Jalen McDaniels, Vernon Carey, 2022 NOLA 1st (lotto prot), 2023 CHA 1st (rights to swap), 2024 CHA 1st (top 5 prot, otherwise 2nd), 2025 CHA 1st (rights to swap), 2026 CHA 1st (top 5 prot until 2028, otherwise 2nd)

Philly trades: Ben Simmons

Philly creates a much better perimeter-oriented lineup around Embiid, and gives them more trade ammunition to go after someone like Beal or Lillard during the season. Before any other trade, their lineup is Embiid/Harris/Hayward/Green/one of Maxey/Milton/Curry with a deep bench as well as a few extra prospects to develop or send out to the team trading a star guard.

Charlotte, still ignoring all centers worth a damn, just decide to play small and add Simmons as its "big man". He's a transformative defender and adds playmkaing that was lost and not replaced in the offseason (Graham/Monk). Simmons also fits the timeline as a 25-year-old who is right in the middle of the average age of the rotation. Ball/Rozier/Bridges/Simmons/Washington + Smith/Bouknight/Oubre/Plumlee/Kai

how does part 1 benefit the knicks if it lets charlotte upgrade their team via getting simmons? it means their pick will be lower value

Because if something doesn't work out, the Knicks can potentially get a top 5 pick. This seems like a no brainer for NY. Id want something back If i'm charlotte for making that part happen.

the chances of that is so low w/ simmons replacing hayward that i rather just keep the pick as is now.

[LightTheBeam]

how does part 1 benefit the knicks if it lets charlotte upgrade their team via getting simmons? it means their pick will be lower value

Because if something doesn't work out, the Knicks can potentially get a top 5 pick. This seems like a no brainer for NY. Id want something back If i'm charlotte for making that part happen.

the chances of that is so low w/ simmons replacing hayward that i rather just keep the pick as is now.

So youd rather have "currently top 18 protected for 2 years, then lotto protected for 2 years, then 2nds"

Essentially at best you are getting the #15 pick in 3 years. Best case scenario

Rather than just ensuring you get this pick now, with absolutely zero protections?

Ya I personally couldn't disagree more. But to each their own.

[doctor him]

I think Simmons is overvalued on here, Philly can keep him and deal with all the problems that come with him and his contract.

So many problems that they led to the #1 seed last season and if Green doesn't get hurt they beat Atlanta and get to the ECF and who knows what happens from there.

But I get that Minny shouldn't bring Simmons to town and wreck the momentum they've had going for the last decade. What seed were the T-Pups again last year? Or the year before? Or the year before? Or...

If a deal has to have #1 picks added to it to equalize value then it's not what the Sixers are seeking. We need players now to compete in June 2022. Not June 2028. That's the timeline that should frame any/every deal.

I could really do without your attacks against MN based in past performance, because past performance doesn't have anything to do with current situations or future ones.

The reality is Simmons would be fighting for that 4/5 staring option on MN and paying $35mil for that isn't an exciting proposition. So on that front MN isn't a good trade partner, but the problem is they are one of the few willing teams to take his salary and deal with the problems associated with it.

If Philadelphia wants to keep him and hope to rehab him all the power, but it is a risk.

For the lack of confidence issue that reared up in the playoffs, Simmons was the second best player on a #1 seed in the better conference.

So...maybe if you're feeling a little sensitive about someone taking shots at the T-Pups you could be just as mindful about taking shots at other team's players as well.

And the point of this (and numerous other threads) has generally been as follows:

"How can we get a player for way lower than his actual value?"

For all the value that Minny has on its roster, I do find it hard to believe that such a team has so many untouchables in a deal for a multi time allstar and DPOY.

Does Simmons have warts? Absolutely. No one is denying them, but there's also no need to exaggerate them either.

[blind prophet]

This has to be one of the most odd upper tier player trade scenario I can recall in recent history.

Philly asking for a lot, many people think Simmons value has crumbled.

Will be interesting to see the final deal materialize.

[doctor him]

Minny gets Simmons
Sac gets Tobias/McDaniels
Philly gets Russell/Buddy/Bags/3 Minny 1sts/1 lotto protected Sac pick 1st.

Philly technically gets their asking price of a young all-star and bunch of firsts.

Minny goes in on Simmons.

Kings move parts for a big contract and upgrade.

Who is the young all star in this deal?

And more importantly...how is this a "win now" deal?

[GoBobs]

We don't need Simmons and it is to much for us to gamble on him getting better. Do you really want a guy who is babied and spoiled hanging around LaMelo? We need to try and keep a positive team culture.

If the 76ers want Hayward let us be the third team in the deal and end up getting some picks for him. We had enough of guy who plays good defense but can't shoot with MKG. We know that doesn't go anywhere.

[pipfan]

I figure Harris and Lauri start together at the 3/4, with Thybulle backing up both. Not sure if Reed is ready for minutes, as the 4th forward

As for Coby and the Bulls-I like him, but I just don't think we have room for him. I would rather let Ayo/Brown/Green mop up the remaining backcourt minutes, behind Ball/Lavine/Caruso. They might be able to get a future 1st for White

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Seems too light for Philly to me. They need the best win now player they can get, none of these guys fits the bill.

[doctor him]

I heard this last night on NBA radio (Eddie Johnson & Amin), but I think the framework makes sense for a Simmons to GSW deal:

Simmons to GSW

Green & 2 young wing prospects to Phila

Those young wings would be one of Moody/Kuminga and one of Poole/Anderson.

It makes sense from a spacing standpoint because Simmons would be dynamite setting up the Warriors shooters and running the post. He's a better, younger, more athletic, longer version of Green. It's a win now move for the Warriors with all of the vets they've brought in to compete.

It makes sense from leadership and toughness standpoint because Green for all of his faults knows what it takes to win and the confidence issues that filtered through in the playoffs would be addressed there. It's a win now move for the Sixers too.

[BlazersBroncos]

Can Memphis assemble a decent offer?

I wonder whether JJJ must be included OR the following offer might draw 76s attention, too?

Anderson
Melton/Brooks
Bane
Clarke
1st 2022 via Lakers
1st 2022 via Utah
1st 2023
1st 2025
fillers-expirings (Rondo, Jones, or Juancho)

I am very high on Brooks, so I actually sorta like this. But at the end of the day the 76'ers should be moving Ben for a high caliber win-now player. I still think CJ is the best fit for that considering what is available.

What about this spin on a CJ for Ben swap:

PDX TRADES - CJ McCollum, Derrick Jones Jr, 2022 PDX FRP, 2024 PDX FRP
PDX RECEIVES - Ben Simmons

SAS TRADES - Dejounte Murray
SAS RECEIVES - Derrick Jones Jr, Shake Milton, 2022 PDX FRP, 2024 PDX FRP

PHI TRADES - Ben Simmons, Shake Milton
PHI RECEIVES - CJ McCollum, Dejounte Murray

PDX gets the big shakeup they have needed for ages.
SAS picks White and gets 2 FRP and a cheap rotation guy in Milton
PHI totally revamps their guard rotation and can run with:

G - Dejounte Murray / Tyrese Maxey / Jaden Springer
G - CJ McCollum / Seth Curry / Furkan Korkmaz / Isaiah Joe
F - Danny Green / Matisse Thybulle / Furkan Korkmaz
F - Tobias Harris / Paul Reed Jr / Georges Niang
C - Joel Embiid / Andre Drummond / Charles Bassey

[SO_MONEY]

So many problems that they led to the #1 seed last season and if Green doesn't get hurt they beat Atlanta and get to the ECF and who knows what happens from there.

But I get that Minny shouldn't bring Simmons to town and wreck the momentum they've had going for the last decade. What seed were the T-Pups again last year? Or the year before? Or the year before? Or...

If a deal has to have #1 picks added to it to equalize value then it's not what the Sixers are seeking. We need players now to compete in June 2022. Not June 2028. That's the timeline that should frame any/every deal.

I could really do without your attacks against MN based in past performance, because past performance doesn't have anything to do with current situations or future ones.

The reality is Simmons would be fighting for that 4/5 staring option on MN and paying $35mil for that isn't an exciting proposition. So on that front MN isn't a good trade partner, but the problem is they are one of the few willing teams to take his salary and deal with the problems associated with it.

If Philadelphia wants to keep him and hope to rehab him all the power, but it is a risk.

For the lack of confidence issue that reared up in the playoffs, Simmons was the second best player on a #1 seed in the better conference.

So...maybe if you're feeling a little sensitive about someone taking shots at the T-Pups you could be just as mindful about taking shots at other team's players as well.

And the point of this (and numerous other threads) has generally been as follows:

"How can we get a player for way lower than his actual value?"

For all the value that Minny has on its roster, I do find it hard to believe that such a team has so many untouchables in a deal for a multi time allstar and DPOY.

Does Simmons have warts? Absolutely. No one is denying them, but there's also no need to exaggerate them either.

I am not sensitive about people talking shots at the Wolves, it just doesn't serve a purpose. It was pointless.

And I can have my opinion on a player thank you.

Simmons just doesn't have the value at his contract and flaws and it is not a good sign when the most visible team with "interest" would have at least 3 options ahead of him in Edwards, Towns and Russell and he would be fighting it out with McDaniels for that 4th and 5th spot.

His defense is great, but $35mil? Ouch.

[Stillwater]

I see it Beasley has more value than LNJ.

And McDaniels + 2nds + Beasley > LNJ as fair value.

lol no

Lol yes

Your move.

Beasley is overpaid

[MoneyTalks41890]

I could really do without your attacks against MN based in past performance, because past performance doesn't have anything to do with current situations or future ones.

The reality is Simmons would be fighting for that 4/5 staring option on MN and paying $35mil for that isn't an exciting proposition. So on that front MN isn't a good trade partner, but the problem is they are one of the few willing teams to take his salary and deal with the problems associated with it.

If Philadelphia wants to keep him and hope to rehab him all the power, but it is a risk.

For the lack of confidence issue that reared up in the playoffs, Simmons was the second best player on a #1 seed in the better conference.

So...maybe if you're feeling a little sensitive about someone taking shots at the T-Pups you could be just as mindful about taking shots at other team's players as well.

And the point of this (and numerous other threads) has generally been as follows:

"How can we get a player for way lower than his actual value?"

For all the value that Minny has on its roster, I do find it hard to believe that such a team has so many untouchables in a deal for a multi time allstar and DPOY.

Does Simmons have warts? Absolutely. No one is denying them, but there's also no need to exaggerate them either.

I am not sensitive about people talking shots at the Wolves, it just doesn't serve a purpose. It was pointless.

And I can have my opinion on a player thank you.

Simmons just doesn't have the value at his contract and flaws and it is not a good sign when the most visible team with "interest" would have at least 3 options ahead of him in Edwards, Towns and Russell and he would be fighting it out with McDaniels for that 4th and 5th spot.

His defense is great, but $35mil? Ouch.

I mean it's pretty clear that you objectively have a warped view here. Simmons would immediately be the second best player on the Wolves, hands down, and probably lead them to the playoffs. That current crew has little chance of that. It's Simmons defense but it's also his playmaking.

[SO_MONEY]

For the lack of confidence issue that reared up in the playoffs, Simmons was the second best player on a #1 seed in the better conference.

So...maybe if you're feeling a little sensitive about someone taking shots at the T-Pups you could be just as mindful about taking shots at other team's players as well.

And the point of this (and numerous other threads) has generally been as follows:

"How can we get a player for way lower than his actual value?"

For all the value that Minny has on its roster, I do find it hard to believe that such a team has so many untouchables in a deal for a multi time allstar and DPOY.

Does Simmons have warts? Absolutely. No one is denying them, but there's also no need to exaggerate them either.

I am not sensitive about people talking shots at the Wolves, it just doesn't serve a purpose. It was pointless.

And I can have my opinion on a player thank you.

Simmons just doesn't have the value at his contract and flaws and it is not a good sign when the most visible team with "interest" would have at least 3 options ahead of him in Edwards, Towns and Russell and he would be fighting it out with McDaniels for that 4th and 5th spot.

His defense is great, but $35mil? Ouch.

I mean it's pretty clear that you objectively have a warped view here. Simmons would immediately be the second best player on the Wolves, hands down, and probably lead them to the playoffs. That current crew has little chance of that. It's Simmons defense but it's also his playmaking.

I don't think you are listening.

I made no claims as to where he would rank for best player.

He would be the 4th or 5th option. He isn't taking shots from Edwards, Towns or Russell... can you tell me he should, with a straight face? No, of course not.

That probably results in statistical decreases.

I think his days as a perimeter player and primary ball-handler are over as well regardless of his landing spot. This also may result in statistical decreases.

Does this sound like a player worth $35mil? Probably not to MN, right? I think in the perfect storm they would want to add him and might part with moderate talent, but let's be real... can you be honest for a second? Is he worth his contract to MN? He isn't really, is he?

I don't care if he stays or goes, but I do find it odd that the "main" team interested is also a team that sets up as getting the least production per dollar and it doesn't bode well for league wide interest if they are largely talking per rumors to the team that would in theory give the least.

[BullyKing]

I am not sensitive about people talking shots at the Wolves, it just doesn't serve a purpose. It was pointless.

And I can have my opinion on a player thank you.

Simmons just doesn't have the value at his contract and flaws and it is not a good sign when the most visible team with "interest" would have at least 3 options ahead of him in Edwards, Towns and Russell and he would be fighting it out with McDaniels for that 4th and 5th spot.

His defense is great, but $35mil? Ouch.

I mean it's pretty clear that you objectively have a warped view here. Simmons would immediately be the second best player on the Wolves, hands down, and probably lead them to the playoffs. That current crew has little chance of that. It's Simmons defense but it's also his playmaking.

I don't think you are listening.

I made no claims as to where he would rank for best player.

He would be the 4th or 5th option. He isn't taking shots from Edwards, Towns or Russell... can you tell me he should, with a straight face? No, of course not.

That probably results in statistical decreases.

I think his days as a perimeter player and primary ball-handler are over as well regardless of his landing spot. This also may result in statistical decreases.

Does this sound like a player worth $35mil? Probably not to MN, right? I think in the perfect storm they would want to add him and might part with moderate talent, but let's be real... can you be honest for a second? Is he worth his contract to MN? He isn't really, is he?

I don't care if he stays or goes, but I do find it odd that the "main" team interested is also a team that sets up as getting the least production per dollar and it doesn't bode well for league wide interest if they are largely talking per rumors to the team that would in theory give the least.

You sure seem to spend an inordinate amount of your time posting about your team acquiring a player that you don't even think is worth his contract.

[MoneyTalks41890]

It's pretty nuts to me, given the obvious fit of Simmons as the primary ballhandler with two off ball shooters in DLo and Towns. It's literally the perfect pick and roll 3 man game. Again, the good news for Minny is that their front office appears to see that, even if some fans cannot.

[jayjaysee]

I still just really like;

Sexton to Philly
DLo+Okogie+Minnesota firsts to Cleveland
Simmons+Nance+Cedi to Minnesota

Move whatever around, if Sexton is worth more/less than Simmons add value/whatever else.. Make Philly pay Cedi? Make Philly send a first to Cleveland so Minnesota doesn’t have to send multiple?

[Buzzard]

The Hawks have been shopping Huerter and/or Reddish if you believe the rumors. I doubt a pick from the Wolves would tick Schlenks value for one of them; but you never know until you ask.

[SO_MONEY]

It's pretty nuts to me, given the obvious fit of Simmons as the primary ballhandler with two off ball shooters in DLo and Towns. It's literally the perfect pick and roll 3 man game. Again, the good news for Minny is that their front office appears to see that, even if some fans cannot.

Ummm....

Actually the word on the street is MN would want to convert him to PF, in fact at one point all interested teams mentioned were of that mindset. I think his days are over as a perimeter player and primary ball-handler because it just plays into his weaknesses.

[ChettheJet]

The Bulls toss Lauri Markkanen into the mix and he works for 2 reasons. He provides proven long range shooting and is no kid anymore, he wants out of Chicago and to prove he's a better player than they let him be. Second is he costs the least of any other win now player. So PHI and the team getting Simmons aren't having to balance as much to CHI in the trade. Yeah the Bulls would like a FRP, that's a good negotiating stance but they have some needs at the backup PF and if teams are getting Simmons and Markkanen then they can afford to send one or two back to the Bulls