Woj: Paul George informs Pacers he plans to leave them in 2018 free agency, prefers Lakers.

[Gam]

Said it in the other thread somewhere I think, and stand by it, would add in 21 too:

PG to the Cavs
Love to OKC
Dipo/Sabonis to Indy

Gets a young player, prospect, and could add 21. Also Presti gives GSW a little stiffer competition.

Is that return better than Randle + Clarkson + #28 + lottery protected LA 1st in 2020?

With 21 it's close. Depends on how they value Randle vs Dipo.

[Texas Chuck]

Oh and Sabonis has more value in a trade to Indy than Randle I have to think. Even if you believe Randle to be a superior prospect(any gap is small imo), surely Indy prefers a guy they have 3 cheap old rookie scales years of over a guy they will have to make an expensive decision on next summer.

And even setting aside Indy specifically I have the value of Sabonis as higher than Randle.

[rugbyrugger23]

To Pacers: #7 + #28 + Brewer

To Wolves: #2 + Deng

To Lakers: George + #17 + Hill (100%NG)

Pacers get a top 10 pick for a player on his way out.

Wolves take on Deng, but the Thibs connection and their cap space make it the one place just maybe he isn't a albatross. But the real prize is selecting Jackson or ? at 2. The last huge upside piece Wolves need to complete roster.

Lakers get George a year early and cap space for Magic to attract a marquee FA. #17 can be a rookie selected or try and attach to Clarkson or maybe Mozgov for even more cap space.

Pacers shouldn't be worried about Deng's cap hit, they aren't signing a Paul George in free agency after trading him away. Minnesota should just get cut out.

That is one way of thinking. Pacers could go that route. But on the other hand, all their big contract are options or expirings (by strategic design). They could go into 2018 offseason with Turner, #7, their 2018 1st (without George could be high pick), and basically clear cap (maybe they retain Thad). Pacers don't HAVE to go long rebuild. Take that young core, and before Turner needs a max extension, Pacers can recut 2+ max free agents, plus other lower level FA's.

Not eating Deng contract to even have that option is and should be appealing -- also not ignored.

And really this could be 2 trades. Kind of like what Ainge did and will be doing with #1. #2 is too much for George (just as #1 too much for Butler). Dilute the #2 first (get value by dumping Deng) and then move the incoming #7 piece for George.

[Spens1]

To Pacers: #7 + #28 + Brewer

To Wolves: #2 + Deng

To Lakers: George + #17 + Hill (100%NG)

Pacers get a top 10 pick for a player on his way out.

Wolves take on Deng, but the Thibs connection and their cap space make it the one place just maybe he isn't a albatross. But the real prize is selecting Jackson or ? at 2. The last huge upside piece Wolves need to complete roster.

Lakers get George a year early and cap space for Magic to attract a marquee FA. #17 can be a rookie selected or try and attach to Clarkson or maybe Mozgov for even more cap space.

Its not bad but not great either (since 2, if we get Ball, fills a huge need for us).

Also cut out of the middle man here. Get the Wolves out and we can just deal with Indiana.

[Slava]

Oh and Sabonis has more value in a trade to Indy than Randle I have to think. Even if you believe Randle to be a superior prospect(any gap is small imo), surely Indy prefers a guy they have 3 cheap old rookie scales years of over a guy they will have to make an expensive decision on next summer.

And even setting aside Indy specifically I have the value of Sabonis as higher than Randle.

Unless Indiana has other uses for that cap space, they should take the best possible prospect. If that is Sabonis, let it be so but salary shouldn't be their concern. Moreover Randle would play alongside probably the perfect prototype for his front court partner in Turner.

[HartfordWhalers]

To Pacers: #7 + #28 + Brewer

To Wolves: #2 + Deng

To Lakers: George + #17 + Hill (100%NG)

Pacers get a top 10 pick for a player on his way out.

Wolves take on Deng, but the Thibs connection and their cap space make it the one place just maybe he isn't a albatross. But the real prize is selecting Jackson or ? at 2. The last huge upside piece Wolves need to complete roster.

Lakers get George a year early and cap space for Magic to attract a marquee FA. #17 can be a rookie selected or try and attach to Clarkson or maybe Mozgov for even more cap space.

Pacers shouldn't be worried about Deng's cap hit, they aren't signing a Paul George in free agency after trading him away. Minnesota should just get cut out.

That is one way of thinking. Pacers could go that route. But on the other hand, all their big contract are options or expirings (by strategic design). They could go into 2018 offseason with Turner, #7, their 2018 1st (without George could be high pick), and basically clear cap (maybe they retain Thad). Pacers don't HAVE to go long rebuild. Take that young core, and before Turner needs a max extension, Pacers can recut 2+ max free agents, plus other lower level FA's.

Not eating Deng contract to even have that option is and should be appealing -- also not ignored.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm saying its value to Indy isn't remotely worth moving down a tier from Ball to 7.

Having a roster of Turner #7 and nothing else isn't going that far in free agency for Indiana. They wouldn't be expecting that cap room to return value commensurate with moving down in the draft from the vaulted #2 spot.

[Texas Chuck]

[

Unless Indiana has other uses for that cap space, they should take the best possible prospect. I

I don't disagree in theory except again I don't believe there is much difference between these two guys as players and more importantly I don't see either guy currently as someone I'm yet ready to invest big money in. So yeah I'd rather have Sabonis.

Obviously if my choice was say Wiggins vs Donovan Mitchell than I take Wiggins and say screw the money. Because you have to grab talent when you can and you have to ultimately pay to play.

[rugbyrugger23]

Pacers shouldn't be worried about Deng's cap hit, they aren't signing a Paul George in free agency after trading him away. Minnesota should just get cut out.

That is one way of thinking. Pacers could go that route. But on the other hand, all their big contract are options or expirings (by strategic design). They could go into 2018 offseason with Turner, #7, their 2018 1st (without George could be high pick), and basically clear cap (maybe they retain Thad). Pacers don't HAVE to go long rebuild. Take that young core, and before Turner needs a max extension, Pacers can recut 2+ max free agents, plus other lower level FA's.

Not eating Deng contract to even have that option is and should be appealing -- also not ignored.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm saying its value to Indy isn't remotely worth moving down a tier from Ball to 7.

Having a roster of Turner #7 and nothing else isn't going that far in free agency for Indiana. They wouldn't be expecting that cap room to return value commensurate with moving down in the draft from the vaulted #2 spot.

I don't think Lakers offer Pacers #2 and Deng for George. To me that would not even be an option.

Really 2 trades here.

Trade 1: Deng + 2 for 7
Is dumping Deng worth 5 slot slide...I think no.

Trade 2: Brewer + 7 + 28 for George + 17
But if Magic is playing multiple chess moves, is that 1st trade/move worth George? Now I think yes.

Imagine Lakers leaving offseason with George + another marquee FA (cap space created by dumping contracts) by purely leveraging the #2. Pretty good roll of the lotto dice for Laker organization.

[HartfordWhalers]

That is one way of thinking. Pacers could go that route. But on the other hand, all their big contract are options or expirings (by strategic design). They could go into 2018 offseason with Turner, #7, their 2018 1st (without George could be high pick), and basically clear cap (maybe they retain Thad). Pacers don't HAVE to go long rebuild. Take that young core, and before Turner needs a max extension, Pacers can recut 2+ max free agents, plus other lower level FA's.

Not eating Deng contract to even have that option is and should be appealing -- also not ignored.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm saying its value to Indy isn't remotely worth moving down a tier from Ball to 7.

Having a roster of Turner #7 and nothing else isn't going that far in free agency for Indiana. They wouldn't be expecting that cap room to return value commensurate with moving down in the draft from the vaulted #2 spot.

I don't think Lakers offer Pacers #2 and Deng for George. To me that would not even be an option.

Really 2 trades here.

Trade 1: Deng + 2 for 7
Is dumping Deng worth 5 slot slide...I think no.

Trade 2: Brewer + 7 + 28 for George + 17
But if Magic is playing multiple chess moves, is that 1st trade/move worth George? Now I think yes.

Imagine Lakers leaving offseason with George + another marquee FA (cap space created by dumping contracts) by purely leveraging the #2. Pretty good roll of the lotto dice for Laker organization.

If the Lakers won't even offer #2 for PG, they shouldn't offer it to move Deng. Even with #7 coming back.

[bondom34]

Said it in the other thread somewhere I think, and stand by it, would add in 21 too:

PG to the Cavs
Love to OKC
Dipo/Sabonis to Indy

Gets a young player, prospect, and could add 21. Also Presti gives GSW a little stiffer competition.

Is that return better than Randle + Clarkson + #28 + lottery protected LA 1st in 2020?

With 21 it's close. Depends on how they value Randle vs Dipo.

Yeah I'd definitely do it w/ 21 anyway.

[rugbyrugger23]

Pacers shouldn't be worried about Deng's cap hit, they aren't signing a Paul George in free agency after trading him away. Minnesota should just get cut out.

That is one way of thinking. Pacers could go that route. But on the other hand, all their big contract are options or expirings (by strategic design). They could go into 2018 offseason with Turner, #7, their 2018 1st (without George could be high pick), and basically clear cap (maybe they retain Thad). Pacers don't HAVE to go long rebuild. Take that young core, and before Turner needs a max extension, Pacers can recut 2+ max free agents, plus other lower level FA's.

Not eating Deng contract to even have that option is and should be appealing -- also not ignored.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm saying its value to Indy isn't remotely worth moving down a tier from Ball to 7.

Having a roster of Turner #7 and nothing else isn't going that far in free agency for Indiana. They wouldn't be expecting that cap room to return value commensurate with moving down in the draft from the vaulted #2 spot.

And if Lakers are going to ask a team to absorb Deng and/or Mozgov in return for assets, I think it should be Bulls.

#2 + Ingram + Deng + Mosgov for Butler + Lopez + Filler

Lakers can start a package for George around Randle who fits with Turner (+Payne from Bulls as filler?). Or of course gamble he doesn't get traded to a team he re-signs with and hope he signs with Lakers next offseason.

[rugbyrugger23]

I'm not ignoring it, I'm saying its value to Indy isn't remotely worth moving down a tier from Ball to 7.

Having a roster of Turner #7 and nothing else isn't going that far in free agency for Indiana. They wouldn't be expecting that cap room to return value commensurate with moving down in the draft from the vaulted #2 spot.

I don't think Lakers offer Pacers #2 and Deng for George. To me that would not even be an option.

Really 2 trades here.

Trade 1: Deng + 2 for 7
Is dumping Deng worth 5 slot slide...I think no.

Trade 2: Brewer + 7 + 28 for George + 17
But if Magic is playing multiple chess moves, is that 1st trade/move worth George? Now I think yes.

Imagine Lakers leaving offseason with George + another marquee FA (cap space created by dumping contracts) by purely leveraging the #2. Pretty good roll of the lotto dice for Laker organization.

If the Lakers won't even offer #2 for PG, they shouldn't offer it to move Deng. Even with #7 coming back.

Correct. Just as I said in my post. That chess move in a vacuum is not worth it.

[bondom34]

Dipo > Clarkson
Sabonis is > or =? Randle
21 > 28
lottery protected LA 1st in 2020 > nothing

I have that pretty close either way someone picks it. Even with his contract I'm higher on Oladipo than Clarkson (and his contract). But I don;t really have Sabonis ahead of Randle, which probably makes me an outlier there, after all Sabonis has a lot more team control. I'm tempted to make a whole topic on comparing those two packages and see what others think, my instinct was yes the lakers package is better but writing it out I'm now leaning possibly the other way. In short, I'm completely undecided between the two.

In this scenario, why wouldn't OKC roll the dice and keep Paul George? Westbrook/George is as good a 1-2 punch as there is in the league and with Dipo off the books they can resign Roberson and Gibson and have a very similar team that they had in 15-16 with George instead of Durant.

They would. We were debating which offer wins and gets Indiana to say yes to it (assuming no other better offers):

--Dipo/Sabonis/21
or
-- Clarkson/Randle/28/lottery protected LA 1st in 2020


Whats your take? Which would you prefer as Indiana?

Oh and FTR I'd prefer Love to George. I wouldn't trade for PG in this spot given I don't think he stays no matter what. Love is locked up and is closer to Westbrook, plus a great fit w/ Adams. If this package were for PG I actually wouldn't.

[HartfordWhalers]

In this scenario, why wouldn't OKC roll the dice and keep Paul George? Westbrook/George is as good a 1-2 punch as there is in the league and with Dipo off the books they can resign Roberson and Gibson and have a very similar team that they had in 15-16 with George instead of Durant.

They would. We were debating which offer wins and gets Indiana to say yes to it (assuming no other better offers):

--Dipo/Sabonis/21
or
-- Clarkson/Randle/28/lottery protected LA 1st in 2020


Whats your take? Which would you prefer as Indiana?

Oh and FTR I'd prefer Love to George. I wouldn't trade for PG in this spot given I don't think he stays no matter what. Love is locked up and is closer to Westbrook, plus a great fit w/ Adams. If this package were for PG I actually wouldn't.

BTW, if OKC needs to sweeten an offer what about:
#36, #46, and OKC '20 (top 20 one shot if not 2 2nds) for #21?

I could maybe be talked into #36, #39, and OKC '20 (top 20 one shot if not 2 2nds) for #21, but I really need to know that a guy at 21 is worth it and looking at DX, its hard to see that actual guy I would want versus just a generic this should be a deal I like in general.

But either way, the idea being that Philly offers 2 2nds and either a late first or 2 more distant 2nds for a late (but early for late) 1st. Then OKC can offer 2020 1st (top 7 protected) in an offer for Love.

That Jerami Grant deal was bad in hindsight for OKC, if just for the lack of flexibility it causes.

[bondom34]

They would. We were debating which offer wins and gets Indiana to say yes to it (assuming no other better offers):

--Dipo/Sabonis/21
or
-- Clarkson/Randle/28/lottery protected LA 1st in 2020


Whats your take? Which would you prefer as Indiana?

Oh and FTR I'd prefer Love to George. I wouldn't trade for PG in this spot given I don't think he stays no matter what. Love is locked up and is closer to Westbrook, plus a great fit w/ Adams. If this package were for PG I actually wouldn't.

BTW, if OKC needs to sweeten an offer what about:
#36, #46, and OKC '20 (top 20 one shot if not 2 2nds) for #21?

I could maybe be talked into #36, #39, and OKC '20 (top 20 one shot if not 2 2nds) for #21, but I really need to know that a guy at 21 is worth it and looking at DX, its hard to see that actual guy I would want versus just a generic this should be a deal I like in general.

But either way, the idea being that Philly offers 2 2nds and either a late first or 2 more distant 2nds for a late (but early for late) 1st. Then OKC can offer 2020 1st (top 7 protected) in an offer for Love.

That Jerami Grant deal was bad in hindsight for OKC, if just for the lack of flexibility it causes.

That's possible too, wouldn't mind it if they're just trading the pick anyway. Agree on the Grant deal as well, I didn't mind it at the time but looking worse now. Whichever pick package Indy would prefer I'd go with.

Plus if PG ends up in Cleveland w/ Love to OKC Presti gives GSW a little competition maybe. Maybe?

[Chinook]

Maybe OKC could offer 21 for a couple of seconds and their pick to Philly back.

[Pillendreher]

Getting George or Love would be magnificent. Somebody tell Presti that he should get on the phone.

[R-DAWG]

In this scenario, why wouldn't OKC roll the dice and keep Paul George? Westbrook/George is as good a 1-2 punch as there is in the league and with Dipo off the books they can resign Roberson and Gibson and have a very similar team that they had in 15-16 with George instead of Durant.

They would. We were debating which offer wins and gets Indiana to say yes to it (assuming no other better offers):

--Dipo/Sabonis/21
or
-- Clarkson/Randle/28/lottery protected LA 1st in 2020


Whats your take? Which would you prefer as Indiana?

Oh and FTR I'd prefer Love to George. I wouldn't trade for PG in this spot given I don't think he stays no matter what. Love is locked up and is closer to Westbrook, plus a great fit w/ Adams. If this package were for PG I actually wouldn't.

I see things differently. I think you have a better chance to win a championship in 1 year with Goerge and Westbrook then you do in 2 years with Love.

Also, I think this PG is only going to the Lakers thing is just noise. I don't see him leaving money on the table and walking away from playing with another top-10 player in OKC or CLE. That's different than walking away from an Indiana team that has regressed and doesn't have the requisite assets to trade for a 2nd star.

[R-DAWG]

They would. We were debating which offer wins and gets Indiana to say yes to it (assuming no other better offers):

--Dipo/Sabonis/21
or
-- Clarkson/Randle/28/lottery protected LA 1st in 2020


Whats your take? Which would you prefer as Indiana?

Oh and FTR I'd prefer Love to George. I wouldn't trade for PG in this spot given I don't think he stays no matter what. Love is locked up and is closer to Westbrook, plus a great fit w/ Adams. If this package were for PG I actually wouldn't.

BTW, if OKC needs to sweeten an offer what about:
#36, #46, and OKC '20 (top 20 one shot if not 2 2nds) for #21?

I could maybe be talked into #36, #39, and OKC '20 (top 20 one shot if not 2 2nds) for #21, but I really need to know that a guy at 21 is worth it and looking at DX, its hard to see that actual guy I would want versus just a generic this should be a deal I like in general.

But either way, the idea being that Philly offers 2 2nds and either a late first or 2 more distant 2nds for a late (but early for late) 1st. Then OKC can offer 2020 1st (top 7 protected) in an offer for Love.

That Jerami Grant deal was bad in hindsight for OKC, if just for the lack of flexibility it causes.

A lot of the Sam Presti deals have been bad in hindsight just for the lack of flexibility it causes. Thinking about the Kanter trade that cost a 1st and a max slot and the trade for Oladipo which required an above market extension.

Obviously, a trade for Love/George with Vic as a headliner changes the tone of that deal.

[MotownMadness]

AmicoSports I believe was saying LA was reaching out to Detroit about the 12th pick. Could only imagine what they are trying to offer lol