Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[Buzzard]

It's pretty nuts to me, given the obvious fit of Simmons as the primary ballhandler with two off ball shooters in DLo and Towns. It's literally the perfect pick and roll 3 man game. Again, the good news for Minny is that their front office appears to see that, even if some fans cannot.

Ummm....

Actually the word on the street is MN would want to convert him to PF, in fact at one point all interested teams mentioned were of that mindset. I think his days are over as a perimeter player and primary ball-handler because it just plays into his weaknesses.

I love the idea of Collins for Simmons; and use Simmons at the 4 spot. The Hawks have more than enough outside shooting to cover Simmons in most cases.

[MasterIchiro]

I think a bigger question is what teams can outbid the Wolves given the Wolves don't have an acceptable package without a third team? I think the message of the report is that the Wolves package is short. If it weren't, Minny would be able to orchestrate the deal independently and maybe the leak would read more like they're making progress on a deal. I just don't see a hint of progress. I see reaching out to teams in a better position to acquire Simmons who are currently less engaged, or not engaged at all. A need for a third team could end their silence.

For instance, what does a higher bid than Fox for Simmons look like from Minny? Siakam for Simmons?

Also, what teams have spare PG they can send to the Sixers to replace Simmons if Russell is not an acceptable target for the Sixers? Kings come to mind having drafted Haliburton and Mitchell. Fox is an attractive centerpiece. Cavs have Sexton and Garland. Sexton is a nice centerpiece. The Wolves don't seem to have a lead piece other than Edwards. He seems to be off the table and he should be.

[MasterIchiro]

I'd much rather build a deal around Rozier. It seems he could bring the ball up the court in place of Simmons. He'd spread the floor just as much as Hayward. He's younger and has a track record of conditioning hard and staying healthy. He's a stronger lead piece.

It would also require PJ Washington, another spacer who fits alongside Embiid. And if I'm giving up Rozier and PJ as my main pieces, I cut out the Knicks and just offer the Pels pick on top of Rozier + PJ + McDaniels + Carey Jr. I like Bouknight at the 2 in 3 years after Hayward, Simmons shifting from 2 to the Hayward role.

Rozier and PJ are about to be paid and we have Bouknight and Miles/Kai to take their place long term. And Simmons would be an option after Hayward long term and we increase our length, athleticism and defense. We'd need Bouknight and LaMelo to really hit as spacers though. Miles seems like a hit. Kai Jones has potential as a stretch 5.

LaMelo
Bouknight
Simmons
Miles
Kai

[MoneyTalks41890]

Everyone will hate it except maybe Philly folks but I’ve gotta get it out:

MIN out: Edwards, Prince, Bev
MIN in: Simmons, Maxey, Curry, Reed

PHI out: Simmons, Curry, Maxey, Reed, 2022 1st, 2024 1st
PHI in: Dame

POR out: Dame
POR in: Edwards, Prince, Bev, 2022 PHI 1st, 2024 PHI 1st

[Nate the Great]

I heard this last night on NBA radio (Eddie Johnson & Amin), but I think the framework makes sense for a Simmons to GSW deal:

Simmons to GSW

Green & 2 young wing prospects to Phila

Those young wings would be one of Moody/Kuminga and one of Poole/Anderson.

It makes sense from a spacing standpoint because Simmons would be dynamite setting up the Warriors shooters and running the post. He's a better, younger, more athletic, longer version of Green. It's a win now move for the Warriors with all of the vets they've brought in to compete.

It makes sense from leadership and toughness standpoint because Green for all of his faults knows what it takes to win and the confidence issues that filtered through in the playoffs would be addressed there. It's a win now move for the Sixers too.

Why would the Warriors do that? They won’t be happy just to get to the playoffs, they want to win in the playoffs. In the postseason, Simmons is a distinct downgrade from Draymond. So the Warriors give up long term talent to get worse in the short term?

[DoItALL9]

I heard this last night on NBA radio (Eddie Johnson & Amin), but I think the framework makes sense for a Simmons to GSW deal:

Simmons to GSW

Green & 2 young wing prospects to Phila

Those young wings would be one of Moody/Kuminga and one of Poole/Anderson.

It makes sense from a spacing standpoint because Simmons would be dynamite setting up the Warriors shooters and running the post. He's a better, younger, more athletic, longer version of Green. It's a win now move for the Warriors with all of the vets they've brought in to compete.

It makes sense from leadership and toughness standpoint because Green for all of his faults knows what it takes to win and the confidence issues that filtered through in the playoffs would be addressed there. It's a win now move for the Sixers too.

It would be a return shot to trade him after Draymond's interview where he blamed KD leaving on their leadership.

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[JRoy]

This is better than, but I’m not an Edwards believer.

[HartfordWhalers]

Everyone will hate it except maybe Philly folks but I’ve gotta get it out:


PHI out: Reed

Come on now gif.

[Wolveswin]

lol no

Lol yes

Your move.

Beasley is overpaid

Easy to say that now. Once he is more months past his legal recourse and splashing down 3’s, we will see about “overpaid”. My hope is he isn’t involved in Simmons trade and gets at least 1/2 season to prove himself. Then he won’t be the buy low candidate he is now. His asking price will be much higher (or Wolves keep him as great fit with Simmons/team).

[MoneyTalks41890]

Everyone will hate it except maybe Philly folks but I’ve gotta get it out:


PHI out: Reed

Come on now gif.

Gif not loading.

I mean I don’t remember the attachments, I just wanted to add a big going out. It’s JAG territory for me.

[jpatrick]

I know MN wants Simmons but three FRPs, pick swaps, McDaniels, and Beasley is too much. But the concept is right.

[HartfordWhalers]

.

Off topic a bit but I think the NOP pick is sadly 2 2nds. I'm not sold on NOP making the playoffs, but it should be interesting.

[HartfordWhalers]

Everyone will hate it except maybe Philly folks but I’ve gotta get it out:


PHI out: Reed

Come on now gif.

Gif not loading.

I mean I don’t remember the attachments, I just wanted to add a big going out. It’s JAG territory for me.

Reed is the following:

1) A pre draft lotto pick based off advanced stat models
2) The 58th pick in the draft and given a 2 way contract
3) The G league mvp and a guy that put up crazy stats there
4) Signed cheap then to a long term deal
5) a 20-20 summer league guy who averages a tojn of steals and blocks and now hits 3's at a good clip (on super small samples)
6) Someone nicknamed bball Paul

He basically is the Moses Brown/Dort(?) type where some will be valuing him like a top 5 pick and others will see him as the new Tony Wroten until it actually means jack in the NBA.

He is probably the guy most talked about on other teams forums as wanted by their fans (while everyone wants to get paid to take Simmons).

I'm presenting this all without judgment on if Reed will amount to anything.

[Chinook]

Can Memphis assemble a decent offer?

I wonder whether JJJ must be included OR the following offer might draw 76s attention, too?

Anderson
Melton/Brooks
Bane
Clarke
1st 2022 via Lakers
1st 2022 via Utah
1st 2023
1st 2025
fillers-expirings (Rondo, Jones, or Juancho)

I am very high on Brooks, so I actually sorta like this. But at the end of the day the 76'ers should be moving Ben for a high caliber win-now player. I still think CJ is the best fit for that considering what is available.

What about this spin on a CJ for Ben swap:

PDX TRADES - CJ McCollum, Derrick Jones Jr, 2022 PDX FRP, 2024 PDX FRP
PDX RECEIVES - Ben Simmons

SAS TRADES - Dejounte Murray
SAS RECEIVES - Derrick Jones Jr, Shake Milton, 2022 PDX FRP, 2024 PDX FRP

PHI TRADES - Ben Simmons, Shake Milton
PHI RECEIVES - CJ McCollum, Dejounte Murray

PDX gets the big shakeup they have needed for ages.
SAS picks White and gets 2 FRP and a cheap rotation guy in Milton
PHI totally revamps their guard rotation and can run with:

G - Dejounte Murray / Tyrese Maxey / Jaden Springer
G - CJ McCollum / Seth Curry / Furkan Korkmaz / Isaiah Joe
F - Danny Green / Matisse Thybulle / Furkan Korkmaz
F - Tobias Harris / Paul Reed Jr / Georges Niang
C - Joel Embiid / Andre Drummond / Charles Bassey

The Spurs aren't doing that deal. They aren't trying to break Murray up into pieces or convert him into "value". I personally wanted to trade Murray for picks or whatever during the draft. It's too late for that now. Moving him should happen, but it needs to be in service of a direct plan toward getting better, and this isn't that.

[NW]

I heard this last night on NBA radio (Eddie Johnson & Amin), but I think the framework makes sense for a Simmons to GSW deal:

Simmons to GSW

Green & 2 young wing prospects to Phila

Those young wings would be one of Moody/Kuminga and one of Poole/Anderson.

It makes sense from a spacing standpoint because Simmons would be dynamite setting up the Warriors shooters and running the post. He's a better, younger, more athletic, longer version of Green. It's a win now move for the Warriors with all of the vets they've brought in to compete.

It makes sense from leadership and toughness standpoint because Green for all of his faults knows what it takes to win and the confidence issues that filtered through in the playoffs would be addressed there. It's a win now move for the Sixers too.

It would be a return shot to trade him after Draymond's interview where he blamed KD leaving on their leadership.

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Warriors front office isn’t that stupid or petty. Doubt they even care. That was clearly a save face interview for KD and Dray. If it makes them feel better, I’m sure the front office is good with playing the bad guy.

As for the deal. They won’t trade Draymond for history and chemistry reasons, but it would be interesting otherwise depending on who the wings are

[SNPA]

No chance unless Minny gives up every pick and swap possible and a third team sends win now pieces.

So Philly gets more for Simmons than Rockets for Harden? Got it.

So Morey is going to trade Simmons to a team and not get any of the three best players or all the picks? Those picks will be late firsts.

[Wolveswin]

To Hornets: Edwards + Beverley + Prince

To 76ers: Hayward + Rozier + 2022 Wolves 1st (top 3 protected) + 2023 Wolves 1st Swap (unprotected)

To Wolves: Simmons + Curry + Bouknight

Hornets upgrade upside to pair Edwards with Ball.

76ers get win-now players and keep eye on Beal and Dame with Rozier (expiring) + Youth + 1sts (owed and own).

Wolves downgrade from Edwards to Bouknight as youth/future but get Simmons in the process.

[MoneyTalks41890]

To Hornets: Edwards + Beverley + Prince

To 76ers: Hayward + Rozier + 2022 Wolves 1st (top 3 protected) + 2023 Wolves 1st Swap (unprotected)

To Wolves: Simmons + Curry + Bouknight

Hornets upgrade upside to pair Edwards with Ball.

76ers get win-now players and keep eye on Beal and Dame with Rozier (expiring) + Youth + 1sts (owed and own).

Wolves downgrade from Edwards to Bouknight as youth/future but get Simmons in the process.

I’m not sure about all of the specifics but this does feel like the right concept.

[Xman]

If Edwards was on the table, then - as I stated in the op - I think the deal would already be done.

Beasley and Bertans (or even Kuzma) are solid perimeter shooters. Analytically, it works. The picks should make up any perceived value difference.

[the_process]

I cant wait until philly fans are curled up in a corner rocking back and forth muttering "but he was signed for 4 years" as they try to decide between burning the wells fargo center down or seppuku.

The great thing about this situation is eventually a deal will be made and we will no longer have to speculate. Then we can shift to philly fans trying to convince others that the return they got is great, and that nobody REALLY thought they were going to get a star.

And what happens if Minnesota gives up Edwards AND picks? Asking for a friend.