Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[PhillyNj]

Sixers don’t won’t picks or av.enrage players for Simmons if you can trade all that stuff for a near Alastair player the Sixers will listen. But all that stuff is an ez no.

[jredsaz]

I think that Simmons is the perfect fit to pair with Minnesotas core of KAT/Russell/Edwards so the goal here is to get Simmons without giving those 3 up. They can't trade this years first because they didn't have a first rounder this past year because of the D'Lo trade but the rest of their picks are available.

There are reports that the Sixers are holding out for a Lillard trade but that just seems so far fetched to me at this point. Lillard is gonna command a Harden-like package and I doubt the Blaze rs would want to run it back with Simmons in place of Lillard. I think guys like McCollum, Fox, Brogdon are closer to Simmons value at this point and out of those 3 guys, the Pacers seem like the most likely team to be willing to get some younger pieces/draft picks/cap relief.

So how about:
The guys that make the most sense for the Sixers to be targeting are Malcolm Brogdon, De'Arron Fox, and CJ McCollum. I don't see a scenario where Lillard is being traded for Simmons at this point. In a deal that has the Wolves landing Simmons, I would say Brogdon would probably be the guy.

What about;
Sixers trade: Ben Simmons, Sixers Get: Brogdon, one of Beverly/Beasley and one of McDaniels/Vanderbilt, one of 23/25 FRP via Minny

Pacers trade: Malcolm Brogdon, Pacers get: one of Beverly/Beasley, Bolmaro, one of the Wolves 23/25 FRP, and 22 SRP (via Washington)

Wolves trade: Patrick Beverly, Malik Beasley, Leandro Bolmaro, one of Jarred Vanderbildt/Jaden McDaniels, FRP's from 23 and 25 (top 3 protected) Wolves get: Simmons

Sixers:
Embiid/Drummond/Tolliver
Harris/Niang/Vanderbildt
Green/Thybulle/Korkmaz
Beasley/Curry/Milton
Brogdon/Maxey/Springer

Pacers:
Turner/Bitadze/Jackson
Sabonis/Brissett/Craig
Warren/Holiday/Duarte
LeVert/Lamb/Bolmaro
Beverly/McConnell/Sumner

Wolves:
KAT/Reid
Prince/McDaniels/Layman
Edwards/Layman
Russell/Okogi/Nowell
Simmons/Russell/McLaughlin

Sixers get two starters that fit nicely next to Embiid who can score/shoot and not need to be subbed out in crunch time due to being a negative offensively. They also get a first round pick that has a good chance to be a lotto pick because its the Wolves.

Pacers shuffle the deck a little and get some nice assets for a guy that isn't taking them past the 1st round. The team doesn't get much worse in my opinion but also gets 1 nice young players a 1st rounder, a solid 2nd rounder plus a starter in Beasley or Beverly to plug into Brogdons spot.

Wolves get their guy. He's a great fit next to D'Lo and Edwards because he can allow them to play off the ball on offense while being big enough to defend the other teams best perimeter player no matter position he is. Having a lineup with Simmons, Prince, Okogi is gonna allow them to have a lineup that can get some stops too.

Is there anyone else that you think could be out there that helps the Sixers win now while also getting the Wolves Ben Simmons?

The stepian rule only applies to picks going forward. Last year doesn't apply. Wolves can trade 2022 pick.

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[baldur]

then the trade must include 2 or 3 unprotected first-rounders of the wolves to begin with.

[PhillyNj]

MN passes. Philadelphia can keep Simmons and bring him to camp or beyond.

Much rather keep Simmons instead of this bad trade.

[jredsaz]

then the trade must include 2 or 3 unprotected first-rounders of the wolves to begin with.

I would think two and a pick swap but some substantial pick haul is needed.

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[Nate the Great]

I figure the prime team to trade for Simmons would be one that

1. really needs to improve their defense.
2. doesn’t need shooting.
3. is a lottery team, but wants to be a playoff team. Simmons doesn’t make sense on a rebuilding team, and he isn’t good in the postseason, but he’s useful for getting you to the playoffs.
4. can use Simmons as their primary ball handler. He’s at his best offensively with the ball in his hands.
5. has a point guard to trade. The Sixers would need a point guard coming back if they trade Simmons.

I’m not sure the Sixers could find a team that meets all these qualifications, but they should come close. The best bets I can see are the Kings, the Timberwolves and maybe the Spurs.

[MoneyTalks41890]

It's pretty nuts to me, given the obvious fit of Simmons as the primary ballhandler with two off ball shooters in DLo and Towns. It's literally the perfect pick and roll 3 man game. Again, the good news for Minny is that their front office appears to see that, even if some fans cannot.

Ummm....

Actually the word on the street is MN would want to convert him to PF, in fact at one point all interested teams mentioned were of that mindset. I think his days are over as a perimeter player and primary ball-handler because it just plays into his weaknesses.

Of course he would guard forwards on defense,
But of course he would also be the primary ball handler. You’re acting like those are the same, which they aren’t.

[pacers33granger]

On that list, McCollum is the only realistic option. Maybe Beal if Minnesota throws in swaps and Washington want to rebuild, but I maintain with Maxey the Sixers should not want to go SG

It has to be a team that wants to rebuild and has a star, that doesn't want Simmons. That is threading a delicate needle.

At this point I'd come back to Brogdon/first if I were the Sixers

The Brogdon/pick ship has likely sailed. We'd have to include another starter at least just to be able to afford Ben.

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[Ell Curry]

I think the easiest answer to this puzzle is the Wolves sending multiple firsts to a 3rd team who send a ready made guard to Philly. This might only happen during the season once a few teams give up properly and start tanking.

Philly - Beasley, Beverley + Team X guard
Minnesota - Simmons
Team X - 2/3 first rounders

I keep going back to Jerami Grant even though he's a 3, because Detroit should be thinking long-term and tanking this year anyways and Grant-Harris-Embiid is a really nicely balanced frontcourt.

And the Pacers I think make sense if a deal like this can be found:

76ers - Brogdon, (Team X wing)
Indiana - Simmons, Shake Milton
Team X - Turner

What's the best wing available for Turner? He can't be traded immediately but Horton-Tucker comes to mind if he doesn't shoot the lights out and the Lakers want to play Westbrook-Nunn-Lebron-Davis-Turner and try to use size and bullying to win it again. Or maybe something like Avidja and one of the Wizards' centers like Bryant from the Wizards if the Pacers like him?

[pacers33granger]

What's Lauri getting here in the sign and trade? Because just looking at rough numbers with Simmons vs. Beasley/Mcdaniels, I'd say he'd be on an instant bad deal which really devalues the package.

[realball]

Philadelphia 76ers trade:
Ben Simmons, Tobias Harris

Philadelphia 76ers receive:
Malcolm Brogdon, Buddy Hield, Malik Beasley



Indiana Pacers trade:
Malcolm Brogdon, Myles Turner

Indiana Pacers receive:
Ben Simmons, Marvin Bagley



Sacramento Kings trade:
Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley

Sacramento Kings receive:
Tobias Harris



Minnesota Timberwolves trade:
Malik Beasley

Minnesota Timberwolves receive:
Myles Turner

[SO_MONEY]

It's pretty nuts to me, given the obvious fit of Simmons as the primary ballhandler with two off ball shooters in DLo and Towns. It's literally the perfect pick and roll 3 man game. Again, the good news for Minny is that their front office appears to see that, even if some fans cannot.

Ummm....

Actually the word on the street is MN would want to convert him to PF, in fact at one point all interested teams mentioned were of that mindset. I think his days are over as a perimeter player and primary ball-handler because it just plays into his weaknesses.

Of course he would guard forwards on defense,
But of course he would also be the primary ball handler. You’re acting like those are the same, which they aren’t.

Teams don't want him at PG, it exacerbates his weaknesses. The PG experiment is over should you trust the rumors. I know exactly what I am saying.

[pacers33granger]

Indiana Pacers trade:
Malcolm Brogdon, Myles Turner

Indiana Pacers receive:
Ben Simmons, Marvin Bagley

Without looking at numbers I think this pushes Indy into the tax. Or if it doesn't we have to pray that none of our guys hit their bonuses. Perhaps there's a deal to shed some of Lamb's salary as a followup, but it seems that hasn't been fruitful yet.

[SO_MONEY]

MN passes. Philadelphia can keep Simmons and bring him to camp or beyond.

Much rather keep Simmons instead of this bad trade.

Which is fine. if it is a bad trade for both teams the trade doesn't get done.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Philadelphia 76ers trade:
Ben Simmons, Tobias Harris

Philadelphia 76ers receive:
Malcolm Brogdon, Buddy Hield, Malik Beasley



Indiana Pacers trade:
Malcolm Brogdon, Myles Turner

Indiana Pacers receive:
Ben Simmons, Marvin Bagley



Sacramento Kings trade:
Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley

Sacramento Kings receive:
Tobias Harris



Minnesota Timberwolves trade:
Malik Beasley

Minnesota Timberwolves receive:
Myles Turner

Turner >>> Beasley, they need to send out a couple picks there. Not sure about the Indy part but it looks ok.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Indiana Pacers trade:
Malcolm Brogdon, Myles Turner

Indiana Pacers receive:
Ben Simmons, Marvin Bagley

Without looking at numbers I think this pushes Indy into the tax. Or if it doesn't we have to pray that none of our guys hit their bonuses. Perhaps there's a deal to shed some of Lamb's salary as a followup, but it seems that hasn't been fruitful yet.

Lamb, 2nds to OKC and that’s done. But the bigger concern is you’re sending out two of the better shooters that you ideally want around Simmons. You probably want to move Sabonis instead in this situation.

[realball]

Philadelphia 76ers trade:
Ben Simmons, Tobias Harris

Philadelphia 76ers receive:
Malcolm Brogdon, Buddy Hield, Malik Beasley



Indiana Pacers trade:
Malcolm Brogdon, Myles Turner

Indiana Pacers receive:
Ben Simmons, Marvin Bagley



Sacramento Kings trade:
Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley

Sacramento Kings receive:
Tobias Harris



Minnesota Timberwolves trade:
Malik Beasley

Minnesota Timberwolves receive:
Myles Turner

Turner >>> Beasley, they need to send out a couple picks there. Not sure about the Indy part but it looks ok.

Where would the Wolves' pick go? I was thinking to Sacramento since they are taking on Harris's contract...

[Laimbeer]

Thoughts at large -

Beal is the only player in the OP who might make the Sixers better than Simmons.

Why wouldn't Russell be on the table? I don't think he has much value, but is he needed for salary matching?

The Wolves don't have the assets to swing this unless they maybe put Edwards in the mix. Beverly/Beasley/McDaniels/picks is like four nickels for a quarter.

[GutUNC]

If Edwards was on the table, then - as I stated in the op - I think the deal would already be done.

Beasley and Bertans (or even Kuzma) are solid perimeter shooters. Analytically, it works. The picks should make up any perceived value difference.

Is there a part of the analytics that factors in what a horrendous contract Bertans is?

[shangrila]

I find it hard to believe Minnesota has 4 better players than Simmons, but I will trust the people that follow Minnesota that closely.

In terms of offensive pecking order, I’d have him below KAT, DLo and Edwards. So 4th would be fair from that perspective.