Trade offers for Darius Garland?

[JJ_PR]

Translation: Everyone wants Garland on their team, and they're willing to give up their scraps in the process.

I knew Garland was in line for a bounce back season, and this thread makes me believe others saw that as well.

[wemby]

Not a fan of Garland, but Cavs are playing very well and there are no looming issues on the horizon (Garland trade demand, Mitchell demand he be traded before he re-signs), so no point in taking risks unless the reward is pretty good. I'm still skeptical they can be successful in the playoffs with the current backcourt, though.

[cgf]

It's early, but the Knicks haven't done so well with the "try to be Boston" game plan yet. The Cavs having two guards who can beat a good defender off the dribble has tremendous value.

That’s fair lol, but I did add the “healthy” caveat for a reason. Our defense has been a mess, but we’re missing our rim protectors; which has forced Towns to play center and Hart to start.

If we are healthy, I dunno if we’ll be on Boston’s level, but our defense should look completely different and we should be a really tough match up for you in particular IMO…at least on paper.

With Brunson - Bridges - Anunoby - Towns - Robinson we’d have the size advantage across the lineup…DG being so much skinnier than Jalen…and the wing defenders to put an all-defensive team guy on both of your guards.

Obviously your guards are skilled enough to still put in work, but on paper, being able to throw OG, Mikal, McBride, Hart, and Payne, at DG & Spida is about as good as we could ask for to counter you.

Especially with Robinson, Achiuwa, and potentially some deadline acquisition…which our FO still has the ammo to make and who they were rumored to be looking into over the summer…protecting the rim.

Brunson is a weakness for us like DG will be for you, and Mobley might torch Towns, but if he no longer had to worry about protecting the rim, Karl might also defend Mobley as well as he does Jokic.



Either way, having a guard and a wing who can beat good defenders off the dribble is just as beneficial as having two guards that can do it. That’s what would make you scarier after a Franz - Garland swap.

Wagner isn’t an OG or Bridges, he’s just a good defender not a top tier one, but he is a legit on ball perimeter creator, at that size. Not just a supporting piece but a legit offensive costar.

So you’d still have two perimeter creators (DM & Franz) + your big man creator (Mobley) + a defense with zero weaknesses for teams to attack + better spacing if you also traded JA to NOLA for Herb or Trey.

And if it was herb, that defense would just be insane. Wade might be the 4th best defender in your starting lineup if Franz continued to improve.

Franz is very good, but it's not "just as beneficial". Garland has been incredible this season and his pairing with Mitchell at the end of games has caused pick your poison problems for defenses and the two of them have provided high level PG play throughout games.

We'll see what's what when the Cavs start playing more top teams.

Franz is averaging around 20-5-5. He might not be quite as much of a playmaker as Garland, but his size makes him a different kind of challenge on the perimeter.

[Mr Loggins]

Not a fan of Garland…..

I can see why people wouldn’t want him. 24 yo, good shooting, playmaking guards are not conducive to winning.

[wemby]

Not a fan of Garland…..

I can see why people wouldn’t want him. 24 yo, good shooting, playmaking guards are not conducive to winning.

5'11" streaky guards who can't guard their own shadow and make max money aren't exactly a recipe for success. Maybe he can be hidden if he's your 3rd 4th best player, but not someone I'd pay a premium for, or sign to a max deal.

[Mr Loggins]

Not a fan of Garland…..

I can see why people wouldn’t want him. 24 yo, good shooting, playmaking guards are not conducive to winning.

5'11" streaky guards who can't guard their own shadow and make max money aren't exactly a recipe for success. Maybe he can be hidden if he's your 3rd 4th best player, but not someone I'd pay a premium for, or sign to a max deal.

I’m don’t believe any of this - height included - is an accurate description of Garland. The max salary you can say was the max when he signed it, but it is no longer the max now.

The rest of it, you must be thinking of another player?

[KembaWalker]

He’s alright, I wouldn’t think Cleveland’s start is attributable enough to him to significantly change his value from a few months ago. He’s a good player on a great team

[JonFromVA]

That’s fair lol, but I did add the “healthy” caveat for a reason. Our defense has been a mess, but we’re missing our rim protectors; which has forced Towns to play center and Hart to start.

If we are healthy, I dunno if we’ll be on Boston’s level, but our defense should look completely different and we should be a really tough match up for you in particular IMO…at least on paper.

With Brunson - Bridges - Anunoby - Towns - Robinson we’d have the size advantage across the lineup…DG being so much skinnier than Jalen…and the wing defenders to put an all-defensive team guy on both of your guards.

Obviously your guards are skilled enough to still put in work, but on paper, being able to throw OG, Mikal, McBride, Hart, and Payne, at DG & Spida is about as good as we could ask for to counter you.

Especially with Robinson, Achiuwa, and potentially some deadline acquisition…which our FO still has the ammo to make and who they were rumored to be looking into over the summer…protecting the rim.

Brunson is a weakness for us like DG will be for you, and Mobley might torch Towns, but if he no longer had to worry about protecting the rim, Karl might also defend Mobley as well as he does Jokic.



Either way, having a guard and a wing who can beat good defenders off the dribble is just as beneficial as having two guards that can do it. That’s what would make you scarier after a Franz - Garland swap.

Wagner isn’t an OG or Bridges, he’s just a good defender not a top tier one, but he is a legit on ball perimeter creator, at that size. Not just a supporting piece but a legit offensive costar.

So you’d still have two perimeter creators (DM & Franz) + your big man creator (Mobley) + a defense with zero weaknesses for teams to attack + better spacing if you also traded JA to NOLA for Herb or Trey.

And if it was herb, that defense would just be insane. Wade might be the 4th best defender in your starting lineup if Franz continued to improve.

Franz is very good, but it's not "just as beneficial". Garland has been incredible this season and his pairing with Mitchell at the end of games has caused pick your poison problems for defenses and the two of them have provided high level PG play throughout games.

We'll see what's what when the Cavs start playing more top teams.

Franz is averaging around 20-5-5. He might not be quite as much of a playmaker as Garland, but his size makes him a different kind of challenge on the perimeter.

Garland is currently shooting 66.3 TS%, that's a game breaking kind of number.

[cgf]

Franz is very good, but it's not "just as beneficial". Garland has been incredible this season and his pairing with Mitchell at the end of games has caused pick your poison problems for defenses and the two of them have provided high level PG play throughout games.

We'll see what's what when the Cavs start playing more top teams.

Franz is averaging around 20-5-5. He might not be quite as much of a playmaker as Garland, but his size makes him a different kind of challenge on the perimeter.

Garland is currently shooting 66.3 TS%, that's a game breaking kind of number.

True. But it’s way too early for any %s to be too useful. That takes 30+ games to even start having any meaning.

Plus he still doesn’t have the size to overwhelm defenders that have the physical gifts to deal with someone like Mitchell…which is part of what makes me less worried about DG & DM than I would be DM & Franz.

[Ryreb]

The only way Garland gets moved is in a package for Giannis.

[cgf]

The only way Garland gets moved is in a package for Giannis.

That would definitely require a follow up Allen trade for the cavs and Lillard trade for Milwaukee, but that could be an interesting foundation

CLE: Giannis + Murphy/Jones
MIL: Garland + Miami assets + Herro/Rozier
MIA: Lillard
NOLA: Allen

Maybe send Allen to Milwaukee with DG and then have Bropez & some of those Miami assets go to NOLA instead?

[Texas Chuck]

I'm confused why this thread is bumped other than for some arguing lol. Seems highly unlikely Cleveland is going to part out any of their core guys with a perfect start to the season.

Maybe just let this one die?

[toooskies]

I'm confused why this thread is bumped other than for some arguing lol. Seems highly unlikely Cleveland is going to part out any of their core guys with a perfect start to the season.

Maybe just let this one die?

I think the thread bumper did it to sarcastically trigger people making suggestions to trade him to chomp on some crow, but people instead took it at face value.

Of course Garland isn't going anywhere now, but he also wasn't as soon as he and the Cavs talked about his agent's stupid comments.

[wemby]

The only way Garland gets moved is in a package for Giannis.

That would definitely require a follow up Allen trade for the cavs and Lillard trade for Milwaukee, but that could be an interesting foundation

CLE: Giannis + Murphy/Jones
MIL: Garland + Miami assets + Herro/Rozier
MIA: Lillard
NOLA: Allen

Maybe send Allen to Milwaukee with DG and then have Bropez & some of those Miami assets go to NOLA instead?

There is no way on Earth Cavs turn Garland + Allen into Giannis + Trey Murphy / Herb Jones. None.

Overall I agree that right now it's extremely unlikely we see Cavs moving Garland. It'll take another playoff failure for them to revisit that scenario.

[cgf]

The only way Garland gets moved is in a package for Giannis.

That would definitely require a follow up Allen trade for the cavs and Lillard trade for Milwaukee, but that could be an interesting foundation

CLE: Giannis + Murphy/Jones
MIL: Garland + Miami assets + Herro/Rozier
MIA: Lillard
NOLA: Allen

Maybe send Allen to Milwaukee with DG and then have Bropez & some of those Miami assets go to NOLA instead?

There is no way on Earth Cavs turn Garland + Allen into Giannis + Trey Murphy / Herb Jones. None.

Overall I agree that right now it's extremely unlikely we see Cavs moving Garland. It'll take another playoff failure for them to revisit that scenario.

Who knows with NOLA. They shouldn't have paid what they did for DJM, so maybe they'll take Bropez and a couple picks, letting the Cavs send JA & DG to Milwaukee for Giannis? Would give them the rim protector they want, who can also space the court for Zion.

[wemby]

Who knows with NOLA. They shouldn't have paid what they did for DJM, so maybe they'll take Bropez and a couple picks, letting the Cavs send JA & DG to Milwaukee for Giannis? Would give them the rim protector they want, who can also space the court for Zion.

That isn't the problem, but that you're deliberately conflating 3 separate trades to obfuscate the fact that you're trading Garland for Giannis straight up:

1) Bucks / Heat: Lillard for Herro/Rozier + Miami assets
2) Bucks / Cavs: Giannis for Garland
3) Cavs / Pelicans: Allen for Trey Murphy/Herb Jones

I could see some way for trades 1 and 3 to work out, but trade 2 is just nuts.

[cgf]

Who knows with NOLA. They shouldn't have paid what they did for DJM, so maybe they'll take Bropez and a couple picks, letting the Cavs send JA & DG to Milwaukee for Giannis? Would give them the rim protector they want, who can also space the court for Zion.

That isn't the problem, but that you're purposefully mixing together 3 separate trades to obfuscate the fact that you're trading Garland for Giannis straight up:

1) Bucks / Heat: Lillard for Herro/Rozier + Miami assets
2) Bucks / Cavs: Giannis for Garland
3) Cavs / Pelicans: Allen for Trey Murphy/Herb Jones

I could see some way for trades 1 and 3 to work out, but trade 2 is just nuts.

I figured that labeling that as the foundations of a trade would make it clear that I wasn’t but was just talking about the bones of a trade without any of the picks / prospects.

…but even if it didn’t the post you are quoting has Cleveland paying Garland and Allen for Giannis and Bropez…which I’m sure some cavs fan will scold me for describing as interesting lol

[wemby]

I figured that labeling that as the foundations of a trade would make it clear that I wasn’t but was just talking about the bones of a trade without any of the picks / prospects.

…but even if it didn’t the post you are quoting has Cleveland paying Garland and Allen for Giannis and Bropez…which I’m sure some cavs fan will scold me for describing as interesting lol

Allen isn't compensation for Giannis but rather for NOLA that is sending Trey Murphy/ Herb Jones in your proposal, plus there's no draft capital to bridge the value gap.
Again, you're confusing others (and probably yourself) by putting together multiple trades that are in essence separate ones, which I very clearly laid out for you. If a trade can be presented as succesive separate trades, you should do so for clarity, unless your goal is to not be clear.

[JonFromVA]

Franz is averaging around 20-5-5. He might not be quite as much of a playmaker as Garland, but his size makes him a different kind of challenge on the perimeter.

Garland is currently shooting 66.3 TS%, that's a game breaking kind of number.

True. But it’s way too early for any %s to be too useful. That takes 30+ games to even start having any meaning.

Plus he still doesn’t have the size to overwhelm defenders that have the physical gifts to deal with someone like Mitchell…which is part of what makes me less worried about DG & DM than I would be DM & Franz.

Well, we're looking at this trade now, not 20+ games from now, and for the moment this is our new reality. Do you trade a player on the cusp of fulfilling his potential of becoming a Steph-level player because you're afraid he's going to come back down to Earth?

You might fairly ask what's changed? And the answer is quite a lot, from Garland being healthy and regaining his strength to Kenny's offense providing more time and more space for Garland to work.

As for Garland dealing with taller defenders, this clip from the Knicks game comes to mind where OG is busy defending Mobley while Bridges gets completely stuck in mud trying to defend the much quicker Garland:

https://youtu.be/GARYPjBOSgo?si=yKk86cR2aNWBsSv2&t=277

And this is where having both Mitchell and Garland is an asset. For instance, maybe OG can stop one of Mitchell or Garland if he gets them 1v1, but there's 2 of them and the Cavs aren't shy about setting multiple screens to get a more favorable match-up. And now Mobley has been activated, Jerome has been fantastic, and if you're 3rd or 4th best defender is kind of meh, LeVert can kill you too.

They key for DG is staying healthy and Franz has had better success doing that; but Franz has to get his 3pt% up higher and keep it up. That 27% 3pt% from Franz last year was killing the Magic.

Meanwhile Garland doesn't just bury 3's, he sinks deep 3's, step back 3's, off the dribble 3's, pull up 3's, spot up 3's, etc. I've never seen an opponent dare Garland to shoot a 3pter and that creates gravity for Mitchell as Mitchell creates gravity for Garland.

[mademan]

I still have Franz as a better player than Garland but still think its a trade they should consider. If its on the table, the Cavs shoiuld jump on it, Garland's hot start and all