Colbinii wrote:Skin wrote:Every single player on that list is not a better offensive player than Biyombo.
Yes they are. The biggest things between a lot of those players and Biyombo is the fact that you can dump it down low to them and they will make a play, Biyimbo can't.
Look at AST%, Bogut: 14.8%, Lopez: 8.5%, Jordan: 5.3%, Gobert: 7.4%, Biyombo: 2.4%. All of these players are a lot better passers than Biyombo, even DJ is a better passer.
Next, you can look at OBPM, Bogut: -.6, Lopez: .1, Jordan: -.4, Gobert: -1.1, Biyombo: -2.4. None of these players are anywhere near as bad as Biyombo. There is a reason all of these players have higher USG% than Biyombo besides Gobert, and that is because an offense can actually utilize them in the post.
You can even look at ESPN ORPM; Bogut: -2.24, Lopez: -.95, Jodan: +.35, Gobert: -1.55, Biyombo: -2.97.
Now, the most important thing you can base this on, is not stats, but actually watching how these players operate in the post, and how their respective teams use them in the post. Just watching the games it should be clear that Biyombo isn't even on a level of Gobert offensively, let alone the rest of these players.
I don't even know what you're basing that off of.
Every statistic that measures offensive impact.
Certainly not PER36.
This would be an awful way to conclude how good a player is offensively.
I have an assumption that you're just looking at his PPG. But that's just lazy.
Nah, I would assume that Loser_X is actually watching the games.
Put Biyombo next to Chris Paul and I bet the quality of his shots and PPG raise dramatically compared to playing with ball hogs such as Lowry and Kemba in the past.
Lowry isn't a ball-hog. Lowry was an all-star in part because of his way to run the offense, not his ball-hogging. Biyombo isn't anywhere close to the finisher that DeAndre is around the rim, so it wouldn't be the same swapping Biyombo and DJ.
DeAndre is a great benefactor.
I actually think Chris Paul benefits more from DJ than the other way around. Is there a PG in the league that couldn't throw lobs to DJ? No, they all could, because he is a fantastic off-ball player in the post.
The rest of those guys are in striking range.
Gobert is, sure, but his offensive trajectory is higher than Biyombo currently.
Howard has been a featured player and Adams is on the upswing, so I can concede some there.
Both of these players are much better offensively than Biyombo. I don't think the comparison can be had. And Joakim Noah? The Bulls ran the offense partly through for the past 4 years.
The point remains, having a Center that defends the post, rebounds and blocks shots is a bigger priority and fundamental need. They don't cripple your line up and waste minutes on the floor.
This isn't true. In your starting line-up you need two-way players. Look at the teams in the Finals and their Bigs. Love, great offensive player and he played great defense in the NBA Finals. Tristan Thompson, player well on both sides of the ball. Draymond Green? Fantastic on both ends. When GSW subbed in Ezeli (comparable level player to Biyombo) they got crushed; slaughtered.
You can't tell me in a vacuum that the Biyombo signing was bad. You have to justify it by saying it's bad "in that line up that can't shoot". But again, you are misguided.
He isn't misguided though. He is using every piece of evidence he has, that the magic are a poor 3 pt shooting team and lost their best floor spacer, Channing Frye.
The Magic are going to test the versatility limits of their players this year. Hennigan added 3 players who shoot near a 40% clip from 3 in Augustin, Meeks, and Wilcox.
This should benefit the team in terms of spacing, but none of those players will get more than 15-20 MPG unless you want to be in the lottery.
He got rid of one inconsistent shooter in Dipo and gave those minutes to Fournier.
First, Fournier already played 32 MPG and started in 71 games. I don't think he is going to be "taking Dipo's minutes", that will be Mario I assume. Second, Oladipo shot the 3rd best on the team (not counting Frye who was traded, Illyasova who played in 22 games) and was .1% worse than Mario. He was one of your best 3 pt shooters last season.
Ibaka and Vucevic can shoot.
Yes, for me Ibaka/Dipo are going to be essentially a wash in terms of impact on the team.
In an interview, Vogel even said he will test Vucevic as a corner 3 shooter and put him in position to expand his game and give him some extended minutes at PF.
He definitely has the skills to do so, well, except for guarding other team's 4's. That is going to look like a nightmare trying to chase stretch 4's around.
Payton is going to set up Biyombo for easy baskets like he's never had from a previous PG before.
Lowry is a better passer, so I am not sure how this is going to be the case. Biyombo also had the luxury of playing with a team where all focus was on Lowry/DD and spacing throughout the lineup.
Theoretically (I'm not asking for names), how should've the Magic addressed their depth around their young lottery picks that they are trying to develop?
I think they should have gone after a more proven commodity at the wing and have Hezonja play 20-24 mpg in a 6th man role. I do like the Ibaka trade, but with their cap space, I would have liked to see them get a better 3+D player to put on the roster if they were really serious about making the playoffs, rather than DJ Augustin, the corpses of Meeks and Wilcox.
Obviously, time will tell how the Magic do. I am excited to see how the team progresses, and I do think the Green signing wasn't as bad as some people are making it out to be. I still think they are a season away from making the post-sesaon in a much improved Eastern Conference, but they will definitely be a fun team to watch with a great head coach.
