Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass)

[Audi]

I'm a bit curious as to those who think Ibaka will walk after this season. Could those of you who feel this way elaborate?

I tend to think that taking into account the Congo connection with Biz; potential for an increased roll, having a coach who focuses on defense, a change of scenary, and the fact that he refers to Hennigan as 'family' with a relationship that goes back to 2008, is more than enough to tip the scales toward him staying.

[mr2good]

Your spacing was bad last year but getting a PG that can make an outside shot coming out of pick and rolls could have resolved issues if you played Gordon at PF.

Now it's no better and you are making it worse by playing a PF at SF.

Vogel himself claimed in interviews that you'd have to win games with a 70-68 scoreline. That's not a great endorsement of roster balance from your coach himself.

you dont seem to have really watched Gordon play if you call him a PF. his game is all SF, he isnt great at post defense, his man defense at the perimeter is 10x better. He has better ball handling, has issues with bigger, thicker PF's moving him for position.

Good god, Gordon's best case scenario is Serge Ibaka. He doesn't have the ball handling, passing or shooting skill to play sf. If you put him at the 3 you have three lumps who cannot put there ball on the floor and not turn it over.

If he can switch on defense to smaller guys and guard them well, that's an advantage but using him permanently to play a defensive sf is basically limiting his quickness as he is rapid quick for a PF but average for a sf.

I'm not sure how much scouting you've done on Gordon. He's a much better passer and ball handler than you're giving him credit for. He's certainly fast enough to switch onto smaller wings if needed. He's going to be a top 3 perimeter defender in the league while playing the SF position this year.

[Texas Chuck]

He's going to be a top 3 perimeter defender in the league while playing the SF position this year.

That's a very high expectation. Can you elaborate on how you think he will be better defensively than all but 2 of Kawhi, Lebron, Iggy, Allen, CP3, Rubio, Paul George, etc?

I think he's got a lot of defensive potential, but that's asking an awful lot for him next year particularly since he's primarily been a PF to this point.

[mr2good]

He's going to be a top 3 perimeter defender in the league while playing the SF position this year.

That's a very high expectation. Can you elaborate on how you think he will be better defensively than all but 2 of Kawhi, Lebron, Iggy, Allen, CP3, Rubio, Paul George, etc?

I think he's got a lot of defensive potential, but that's asking an awful lot for him next year particularly since he's primarily been a PF to this point.

Maybe I was optomistic, but with his versatility I would put him behind Kawhi, Lebron and Paul George. I believe he will be one of the better defenders in the league.

[Cosmic_Backlash]

He's going to be a top 3 perimeter defender in the league while playing the SF position this year.

That's a very high expectation. Can you elaborate on how you think he will be better defensively than all but 2 of Kawhi, Lebron, Iggy, Allen, CP3, Rubio, Paul George, etc?

I think he's got a lot of defensive potential, but that's asking an awful lot for him next year particularly since he's primarily been a PF to this point.

I can elaborate - Aaron Gordon is a really good perimeter defender. Anyone that watches the Magic knows he's a lot closer to making an all-defense team than becoming an offensive juggernaut. He already spend a ton of time defending perimeter players and jump shots.

Here is a table of comparing Aaron, Gordon, Leonard, George, and Lebron by play type and aggregate at the bottom.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/196gyxhVLn39QGv8HGanfmh1iNb2p-yXmf6-Oo7Wt6vs/pubhtml

Enjoy.

[PennytoShaq]

Agree, it is a realstic expectation since it is AG. He is that good on defense. I watched 95% of the games he has played and his ability to defend 3s is elite.

[RickB-Orlando]

That makes sense, what still doesn't is the moves duplicated each other.

Ibaka and Biyombo will play alongside each other though. You can never have enough defense, and the Magic just acquired two of the best rim protectors in the NBA. That should make rim protection a strength and no longer a weakness. Equally as important is that now if they trade vucevic they don't need to get a center in return.

That duo will have really huge massive offensive issues. Nearly unplayable offensively together.

I think you're underestimating what Vogel can do with a center. Under Vogel Hibbert was an impact defender and cleaned up at the rim. I could see Biyombo being exactly the same sort of player. On the other hand, I'm a fan of Vuc and expect him to be even better with Ibaka next to him.

The real challenge will be at the 3. Can AG mature into a legitimate scorer? Or Hezonja? Offense is likely to be a challenge, but I suspect Vogel will have the team playing intensively on defense, certainly in the paint this year. It will be interesting to watch Aaron Gordon torment other small forwards defensively. He certainly has the potential to be a lock-down defender.

And the biggest problem, as others have said, is Elf. Can he consistently threaten enough offense? When his shooting is off (which has been often) it's all too often like watching a 4-on-5 game. I was thrilled when we traded for him, but he needs to bring 100% intensity every single game to be effective. He also needs to learn not to get stuffed at the rim. Seems like that happens way too much.

[bondom34]

Ibaka and Biyombo will play alongside each other though. You can never have enough defense, and the Magic just acquired two of the best rim protectors in the NBA. That should make rim protection a strength and no longer a weakness. Equally as important is that now if they trade vucevic they don't need to get a center in return.

That duo will have really huge massive offensive issues. Nearly unplayable offensively together.

I think you're underestimating what Vogel can do with a center. Under Vogel Hibbert was an impact defender and cleaned up at the rim. I could see Biyombo being exactly the same sort of player. On the other hand, I'm a fan of Vuc and expect him to be even better with Ibaka next to him.

The real challenge will be at the 3. Can AG mature into a legitimate scorer? Or Hezonja? Offense is likely to be a challenge, but I suspect Vogel will have the team playing intensively on defense, certainly in the paint this year. It will be interesting to watch Aaron Gordon torment other small forwards defensively. He certainly has the potential to be a lock-down defender.

And the biggest problem, as others have said, is Elf. Can he consistently threaten enough offense? When his shooting is off (which has been often) it's all too often like watching a 4-on-5 game. I was thrilled when we traded for him, but he needs to bring 100% intensity every single game to be effective. He also needs to learn not to get stuffed at the rim. Seems like that happens way too much.

Hibbert was never a plus offensively. The opposite is true, and Biz isn't even as skilled as Hibbert was.

[RickB-Orlando]

That duo will have really huge massive offensive issues. Nearly unplayable offensively together.

I think you're underestimating what Vogel can do with a center. Under Vogel Hibbert was an impact defender and cleaned up at the rim. I could see Biyombo being exactly the same sort of player. On the other hand, I'm a fan of Vuc and expect him to be even better with Ibaka next to him.

The real challenge will be at the 3. Can AG mature into a legitimate scorer? Or Hezonja? Offense is likely to be a challenge, but I suspect Vogel will have the team playing intensively on defense, certainly in the paint this year. It will be interesting to watch Aaron Gordon torment other small forwards defensively. He certainly has the potential to be a lock-down defender.

And the biggest problem, as others have said, is Elf. Can he consistently threaten enough offense? When his shooting is off (which has been often) it's all too often like watching a 4-on-5 game. I was thrilled when we traded for him, but he needs to bring 100% intensity every single game to be effective. He also needs to learn not to get stuffed at the rim. Seems like that happens way too much.

Hibbert was never a plus offensively. The opposite is true, and Biz isn't even as skilled as Hibbert was.

I'm sorry, I don't think I said a plus offensively? What I said was "an impact defender and clean up at the rim."

I certainly think Biyombo has the potential to be as good a defender as Hibbert, and if he concentrates on offensive rebounding and putbacks, that would probably turn him into a 10/10 player. He's obviously not a guy that you turn into the focal point of an offense.

[bondom34]

I think you're underestimating what Vogel can do with a center. Under Vogel Hibbert was an impact defender and cleaned up at the rim. I could see Biyombo being exactly the same sort of player. On the other hand, I'm a fan of Vuc and expect him to be even better with Ibaka next to him.

The real challenge will be at the 3. Can AG mature into a legitimate scorer? Or Hezonja? Offense is likely to be a challenge, but I suspect Vogel will have the team playing intensively on defense, certainly in the paint this year. It will be interesting to watch Aaron Gordon torment other small forwards defensively. He certainly has the potential to be a lock-down defender.

And the biggest problem, as others have said, is Elf. Can he consistently threaten enough offense? When his shooting is off (which has been often) it's all too often like watching a 4-on-5 game. I was thrilled when we traded for him, but he needs to bring 100% intensity every single game to be effective. He also needs to learn not to get stuffed at the rim. Seems like that happens way too much.

Hibbert was never a plus offensively. The opposite is true, and Biz isn't even as skilled as Hibbert was.

I'm sorry, I don't think I said a plus offensively? What I said was "an impact defender and clean up at the rim."

I certainly think Biyombo has the potential to be as good a defender as Hibbert, and if he concentrates on offensive rebounding and putbacks, that would probably turn him into a 10/10 player. He's obviously not a guy that you turn into the focal point of an offense.

AndI never said there'd be a problem on defense. The offense will just be awful.

[SHAQ32]

Didn't like this off-season at all.

Only thing I'm looking forward to this year is Aaron.

[Bensational]

The moves basically break down like this:

Biyombo - always had the cap space to sign him.

OUT:
Harris [Ilyasova/Jennings]
Oladipo
#12 pick

IN:
Ibaka [for Dipo + Ilyasova]
Augustin [replacing Jennings]
Green [on an expiring]

Here are some of the elements that also went out/came in

PROS OUT:
-Oladipo's defense
-Oladipo's occasional big scoring nights
-Ilyasova's 3pt shooting from the PF spot
-Ilyasova's charges drawn
-A #12 pick
-The potential growth of Dipo and Harris

CONS OUT:
-Logjam at SF/PF between Harris/Gordon/Hezonja
-Logjam at SG between Oladipo/Fournier
-Tweener PF in Harris
-Inefficient scorer in Oladipo who wants to be a go-to scorer
-An erratic backup PG
-A 4 year expensive commitment to both Harris and Oladipo, which would've killed flexibility going forwards unless they proved to be worth more than their contracts.


PROS IN:
-Shotblocking and rim protection from the 4 spot
-3pt shooting from the 4 spot
-Cleared logjam and an open path for Gordon
-Cleared logjam between Oladipo and Fournier. (Better shooting from SG by proxy)
-A quality backup PG
-Veteran experience
-A quality backup tweener forward with 3pt range
-Cap flexibility going forwards, if our current youth don't fulfil their potential.

CONS IN:
-1 year contract for Ibaka and risk of losing him for nothing (slightly negated by the max cap space left in his wake)
-Ibaka has been slowly declining in the level of performance for the past 3 years with OKC
-Green has many weaknesses
-Loss of youth and their subsequent potential
-Heavy reliance on more young and unproven players (Gordon/Payton/Hezonja)
-Strong reliance on improvement from Ibaka



On top of that, we added Biyombo, and retained Fournier for a long period at a good rate.


Anything else that needs to be added?

[HartfordWhalers]

Anything else that needs to be added?

I'm a sucker for an expected win total next year, as well as a letter grade if you are up for it.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Hibbert was never a plus offensively. The opposite is true, and Biz isn't even as skilled as Hibbert was.

I'm sorry, I don't think I said a plus offensively? What I said was "an impact defender and clean up at the rim."

I certainly think Biyombo has the potential to be as good a defender as Hibbert, and if he concentrates on offensive rebounding and putbacks, that would probably turn him into a 10/10 player. He's obviously not a guy that you turn into the focal point of an offense.

AndI never said there'd be a problem on defense. The offense will just be awful.

Right, this is what I've been saying for awhile now unfortunately I'm in the minority on the Magic board. The offense would be terrible playing serge and Biyombo together along with Payton and Gordon. Nik's issue defensively is lateral movement other than that he's typically in position defensively. Somehow the fan base has forgotten his scoring, passing, rebounding skills, which I think could be elite in this current league.

imo a weak side shot blocker like Ibaka (and Gordon whos shown a knack) are the perfect compliments. I really think people underestimate how bad Biyombo is on offense and how simple it would be for opposing teams to stop us. He needs to be surrounded by offensively talented players which has been the case on his last two stops. It wouldn't work with a non threat like Payton and just Fournier as the only scorer.

[Colbinii]

Anything else that needs to be added?

I'm a sucker for an expected win total next year, as well as a letter grade if you are up for it.

hehe

Right, this is what I've been saying for awhile now unfortunately I'm in the minority on the Magic board. The offense would be terrible playing serge and Biyombo together along with Payton and Gordon. Nik's issue defensively is lateral movement other than that he's typically in position defensively. Somehow the fan base has forgotten his scoring, passing, rebounding skills, which I think could be elite in this current league.

What a lot of people in this thread are overlooking is that Ibaka and Biyombo have 0 playmaking ability. Neither one of them are players that you can just dump the ball into the post with and run an offense through. Neither of them can pass or post-up, and only Ibaka can actually shoot outside of the restricted area. This is going to be their weakness, offense, and as we know in this league, if you can't score points you can't win.

imo a weak side shot blocker like Ibaka (and Gordon whos shown a knack) are the perfect compliments.

Yeah, I like Ibaka's pairing with Vuc a lot, and Gordon at the 4 is going to be fun to watch as well.

I really think people underestimate how bad Biyombo is on offense and how simple it would be for opposing teams to stop us. He needs to be surrounded by offensively talented players which has been the case on his last two stops. It wouldn't work with a non threat like Payton and just Fournier as the only scorer.

They are. I have seen posters compare him to Joakim Noah, DeAndre Jordan, Andrew Bogut, and Robin Lopez. All of these players are much, much better offensively.

Good post Blue and White.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Right, this is what I've been saying for awhile now unfortunately I'm in the minority on the Magic board. The offense would be terrible playing serge and Biyombo together along with Payton and Gordon. Nik's issue defensively is lateral movement other than that he's typically in position defensively. Somehow the fan base has forgotten his scoring, passing, rebounding skills, which I think could be elite in this current league.

What a lot of people in this thread are overlooking is that Ibaka and Biyombo have 0 playmaking ability. Neither one of them are players that you can just dump the ball into the post with and run an offense through. Neither of them can pass or post-up, and only Ibaka can actually shoot outside of the restricted area. This is going to be their weakness, offense, and as we know in this league, if you can't score points you can't win.

imo a weak side shot blocker like Ibaka (and Gordon whos shown a knack) are the perfect compliments.

Yeah, I like Ibaka's pairing with Vuc a lot, and Gordon at the 4 is going to be fun to watch as well.

I really think people underestimate how bad Biyombo is on offense and how simple it would be for opposing teams to stop us. He needs to be surrounded by offensively talented players which has been the case on his last two stops. It wouldn't work with a non threat like Payton and just Fournier as the only scorer.

They are. I have seen posters compare him to Joakim Noah, DeAndre Jordan, Andrew Bogut, and Robin Lopez. All of these players are much, much better offensively.

Good post Blue and White.

I know it seems to some that I don't like Biyombo but I actually like the signing, its generated a buzz and I like it. A lot of it is hype and I think some Magic fans need to pump the breaks. I just don't understand what he's done for people to think you can just team him up with whomever and we're going to suddenly be a 5th seed in the East, I mean if he's that good then why didn't Toronto keep him? I think the idea is that Vogel can have A shot blocker on the court at any given time. We don't have to sacrifice all of our offense just to have a good defense. imo they'll implement a team defensive system with a shot blocker in at all times while maintain offensive flexibility.

[Skin]

Right, this is what I've been saying for awhile now unfortunately I'm in the minority on the Magic board. The offense would be terrible playing serge and Biyombo together along with Payton and Gordon. Nik's issue defensively is lateral movement other than that he's typically in position defensively. Somehow the fan base has forgotten his scoring, passing, rebounding skills, which I think could be elite in this current league.

What a lot of people in this thread are overlooking is that Ibaka and Biyombo have 0 playmaking ability. Neither one of them are players that you can just dump the ball into the post with and run an offense through. Neither of them can pass or post-up, and only Ibaka can actually shoot outside of the restricted area. This is going to be their weakness, offense, and as we know in this league, if you can't score points you can't win.

imo a weak side shot blocker like Ibaka (and Gordon whos shown a knack) are the perfect compliments.

Yeah, I like Ibaka's pairing with Vuc a lot, and Gordon at the 4 is going to be fun to watch as well.

I really think people underestimate how bad Biyombo is on offense and how simple it would be for opposing teams to stop us. He needs to be surrounded by offensively talented players which has been the case on his last two stops. It wouldn't work with a non threat like Payton and just Fournier as the only scorer.

They are. I have seen posters compare him to Joakim Noah, DeAndre Jordan, Andrew Bogut, and Robin Lopez. All of these players are much, much better offensively.

Good post Blue and White.

Last I checked, Vucevic is still on the team and a heavy majority of the fan base knows he will be the starter. Why? For all those things you mentioned. Scoring, passing, rebounding... balance with the rest of the roster.

There is excitement for Biyombo because he helps the Magic's biggest weakness. Post defense. Something which neither Ibaka or Vucevic are very capable of. ..and you can include Gordon at PF in that conversation too. The team would've had a massive flaw in it's roster if they didn't have a player that could come in and help us out with our post defense.

The problem is as soon as it is mentioned that Vuc will start, the very first critical response to that is that $17M is too much for a bench player if Biyombo is not starting. More level heads know right away that there will be enough minutes to go around and that there will be different moments during the games when each players' strengths are needed, and that Vogel will have the ability to reach for whatever tool he feels like using. $17M sounds like a lot if you define Biyombo as a bench player. However, $17M does not sound like a lot for a 28-30 min a night player. With 96 minutes between PF and C, and the versatility that is spoken of by Vogel to use our players in a variety of ways, the use of our cap towards Biyombo shouldn't be a negative.

Does he have flaws? Yep, sure does. He only got $17M per year. Not $30M+.

I honestly don't think much of the offensive capability Cs like Joakim Noah, DeAndre Jordan, Andrew Bogut, and Robin Lopez... so I admit that I might've spoken too lightly in the comparison of Biyombo's offense to theirs. But people always overreact to player comparisons on forums anyways, so I should've expected something like that. No 2 players are 100% alike. You could even find differences in offensive games between Joakim Noah, DeAndre Jordan, Andrew Bogut, and Robin Lopez. So yeah. Personally, after giving it more thought... I think Biyombo could be closer to Ben Wallace.

24 mpg / 4.8 ppg / 8.2 rpb / 1.6 bpg / 0.08 apg
22 mpg / 5.5 ppg / 8.0 rpg / 1.6 bpg / 0.04 apg

One of those is a 25 year old, 4th year guy in ORL. The other is a so called 23 year old, 5th year guy in TOR. A breakout for Biyombo could still be on the horizon.

[Colbinii]

I really think people underestimate how bad Biyombo is on offense and how simple it would be for opposing teams to stop us. He needs to be surrounded by offensively talented players which has been the case on his last two stops. It wouldn't work with a non threat like Payton and just Fournier as the only scorer.

This is exactly it. I will post some of the line-up data below, but basically, he was surrounded by shooters. Here were his 3 most played in line-ups.
Biyombo/C. Joseph/K. Lowry/P. Patterson/T Ross - Four 3 point shooters next to Biyombo, 2 playmakers
Biyombo/D. Derozan/K. Lowry/P. Patterson/T Ross - Three 3 point shooters next to Biyombo and a mid-range shooter/slasher in DD, 3 playmakers
Biyombo/C. Joseph/K. Lowry/P. Patterson/D. Derozan - Again, shooters and playmakers (3 playmakers this time)
Even his next two line-ups feature Scola, a good passing big man who can hit the mid-range shot along with other offensive minded players.
His Charlotte sample sizes were much smaller, so I won't post them, but the same trend is true.

I know it seems to some that I don't like Biyombo but I actually like the signing, its generated a buzz and I like it.

I like it too. He just isn't going to turn into a player he isn't, which a lot of Magic Fans feel like he will.

A lot of it is hype and I think some Magic fans need to pump the breaks.

This is it right here. Every fan base does it, they sign a player and exaggerate his strengths while minimize his weaknesses.

I just don't understand what he's done for people to think you can just team him up with whomever and we're going to suddenly be a 5th seed in the East, I mean if he's that good then why didn't Toronto keep him?

Yeah, he has played well in an extremely limited role where all he is asked to do is defend the rim. He doesn't get any offense called for him and if he does ever touch the ball on offense it is because of a P+R where he happens to be open or an offensive rebound.

I think the idea is that Vogel can have A shot blocker on the court at any given time. We don't have to sacrifice all of our offense just to have a good defense. imo they'll implement a team defensive system with a shot blocker in at all times while maintain offensive flexibility.

Flexibility is going to have to come from Payton knocking down mid-range jump shots off of the P+R consistently and Gordon showing range (all he needs is to be able to shoot at a Demar DeRozan level) if he is going to be a starting 3 for this team.

[Colbinii]

Right, this is what I've been saying for awhile now unfortunately I'm in the minority on the Magic board. The offense would be terrible playing serge and Biyombo together along with Payton and Gordon. Nik's issue defensively is lateral movement other than that he's typically in position defensively. Somehow the fan base has forgotten his scoring, passing, rebounding skills, which I think could be elite in this current league.

What a lot of people in this thread are overlooking is that Ibaka and Biyombo have 0 playmaking ability. Neither one of them are players that you can just dump the ball into the post with and run an offense through. Neither of them can pass or post-up, and only Ibaka can actually shoot outside of the restricted area. This is going to be their weakness, offense, and as we know in this league, if you can't score points you can't win.

imo a weak side shot blocker like Ibaka (and Gordon whos shown a knack) are the perfect compliments.

Yeah, I like Ibaka's pairing with Vuc a lot, and Gordon at the 4 is going to be fun to watch as well.

I really think people underestimate how bad Biyombo is on offense and how simple it would be for opposing teams to stop us. He needs to be surrounded by offensively talented players which has been the case on his last two stops. It wouldn't work with a non threat like Payton and just Fournier as the only scorer.

They are. I have seen posters compare him to Joakim Noah, DeAndre Jordan, Andrew Bogut, and Robin Lopez. All of these players are much, much better offensively.

Good post Blue and White.

Last I checked, Vucevic is still on the team and a heavy majority of the fan base knows he will be the starter. Why? For all those things you mentioned. Scoring, passing, rebounding... balance with the rest of the roster.

Okay, I know Vuc is starting, and I never said otherwise. I have read posts about Ibaka and Biyombo being on the court together and "defending the rim", but when you look at the line-up at a whole, including offense, it isn't very pretty.

There is excitement for Biyombo because he helps the Magic's biggest weakness. Post defense.

There should be excitement for Biyombo. If my team played $17 million/year for a player I would be ecstatic as well.

The team would've had a massive flaw in it's roster if they didn't have a player that could come in and help us out with our post defense.

They would. They still have a flaw on the roster which is lack of outside shooting. Ibaka is slightly better than Dipo, and hopefully the absence of Dipo allows for a SG/SF to flourish next to Fournier.

The problem is as soon as it is mentioned that Vuc will start, the very first critical response to that is that $17M is too much for a bench player if Biyombo is not starting.

I can't seem to remember ever bringing up $17 million is bad or that it is bad for him to come off the bench. You can trust me that I know how NBA rotations work and he will be getting 25 MPG. What he brings to the team is probably worth somewhere in the ballpark of $15 million, so the signing isn't bad.

More level heads know right away that there will be enough minutes to go around and that there will be different moments during the games when each players' strengths are needed, and that Vogel will have the ability to reach for whatever tool he feels like using.

Ha, just read this after I replied to the part above.

$17M sounds like a lot if you define Biyombo as a bench player. However, $17M does not sound like a lot for a 28-30 min a night player. With 96 minutes between PF and C, and the versatility that is spoken of by Vogel to use our players in a variety of ways, the use of our cap towards Biyombo shouldn't be a negative.

Ha...

Does he have flaws? Yep, sure does. He only got $17M per year. Not $30M+.

Every player has flaws.

I honestly don't think much of the offensive capability Cs like Joakim Noah, DeAndre Jordan, Andrew Bogut, and Robin Lopez... so I admit that I might've spoken too lightly in the comparison of Biyombo's offense to theirs. But people always overreact to player comparisons on forums anyways, so I should've expected something like that.

Well, you should spend time on the Player Comparison board then. It is level headed without people overreacting, and the best player comparison threads happen over there.

No 2 players are 100% alike. You could even find differences in offensive games between Joakim Noah, DeAndre Jordan, Andrew Bogut, and Robin Lopez. So yeah. Personally, after giving it more thought... I think Biyombo could be closer to Ben Wallace.

Of course you can find differences, but you can actually run plays through Noah, Bogut, Lopez, and to a lesser extent Jordan. I have never seen a play run through Biyombo, and at this point in his development I wouldn't want to see one.

24 mpg / 4.8 ppg / 8.2 rpb / 1.6 bpg / 0.08 apg
22 mpg / 5.5 ppg / 8.0 rpg / 1.6 bpg / 0.04 apg

One of those is a 25 year old, 4th year guy in ORL. The other is a so called 23 year old, 5th year guy in TOR. A breakout for Biyombo could still be on the horizon.

I don't know what these stats mean or indicate.

[Skin]

I like it too. He just isn't going to turn into a player he isn't, which a lot of Magic Fans feel like he will.

This is it right here. Every fan base does it, they sign a player and exaggerate his strengths while minimize his weaknesses.

Yeah, he has played well in an extremely limited role where all he is asked to do is defend the rim. He doesn't get any offense called for him and if he does ever touch the ball on offense it is because of a P+R where he happens to be open or an offensive rebound.

Flexibility is going to have to come from Payton knocking down mid-range jump shots off of the P+R consistently and Gordon showing range (all he needs is to be able to shoot at a Demar DeRozan level) if he is going to be a starting 3 for this team.

Magic fans aren't expecting anything more than defense, rebounding and infectious energy from Biyombo.

We're expecting a whole lot more out of Payton and Gordon though. 2 young players who are being given huge roles and an opportunity to step up. How they fare will determine the Magic's real fate. Biyombo is a complimentary player.