Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0

[Scoot McGroot]

Ehh idk if I want another pg who can’t shoot

Not awful if we have to

But Mills or Graham would be nice

Lowry slowing down a bit but still an upgrade over Dennis

We already have Dennis to do that and AC

Graham would be great but feels unlikely for price. Rubio is just very attainable and underrated for playmaking, his impact stats say a positive even though he's not a perimeter great shooter.

Melton would be great.

Kemba is underrated right now and might be gettable.

Melton isn’t a starter on a contender

Kembas injuries worry me, and would require Boston to want to reset things, maybe best for them tbh though with age of Tatum and Brown.

Graham would need to be in a sign and trade, but not sure if that is allowed since he will also be a FA

If indi blows it up, would love Brogdon

Just don’t think we have enough: Dennis, 1st, 2nds

Dennis is not a want in Indy. Also, since he’s a free agent, you can’t include the 1st in this year’s draft with him in a S&T.

You’ve got the ability to deal the 1st in this year’s draft, after the draft. Next 1st isn’t available until 2026 OR 2027, due to NO’s ability to postpone their last pick. You only have 2nds to trade in 2023, 2024, 2025, and 2027 right now. There’s just not a lot there. And THT is about the only real value tradeable piece you have, but he’s a free agent, so you can’t even package the 1st this year with him in a S&T, so you can’t even make your grandest offer of something like Kuzma/THT/2021 1st/2027 1st, which would still require a ton of faith in that 2027 1st being unprotected and the Lakers to no longer be the Lakers in terms of bringing in free agency talent. There’s not a ton of flexibility in terms of trades with value there, unless someone loves Kuzma, or Harrell opts in (as he would at least be a tradeable salary at that point to package with the 1st this year, and wouldn’t require a S&T).

[shrink]

I bet saying #1 is going to be pretty great for moral if they bring any of those guys back lol

You’re both right. Rubio’s numbers next to Russell for the first half of the season were very bad, and he said he struggled with what his role was. He was never a match with DLo, and when he played with the bench and Ant, his ability to make players better had a very low ceiling.

When DLo got hurt and Rubio played with the starters, we saw the old Rubio again. His numbers went right back to the old Rubio numbers, KAT came back and did well, and he was especially helpful to Ant. Edwards credits Rubio for everything, and Edwards numbers (24/6/3 on above average TS% .567, even with a high usage 28.3) probably have a lot to do with Ricky being an “Ant-whisperer.” When DLo came back, he and Rubio finally put up some ok numbers when they shared the floor - I credit Chris Finch for having more impact, so DLo couldn’t just do whatever he wanted, Also, Rubio is the strongest voice in the locker room - team first and honest.

So the Chris Finch comment about only five players is a little disconcerting to the many Rubio fans in MIN. It’s true that MIN needs to cut some salary to get under the lux, especially if they keep their pick (26% chance). Rubio struggled with an uncertain role, and I think we can cement DLo into this line up, so Rubio or Beasley needs to come off the bench, even if MIN plays Edwards as a SF.

The question of whether Rubio is one of the five may depend on their view of who they are. Is the priority wins next year? Or is the biggest factor continuing to develop Edwards? But I brought the line here because I thought it would say a lot to you guys about what MIN’s future looks like.

Is Minny still trying a scheme where there are shooters at every position? Not as much. Okogie started many games, but the offense dragged with multiple non-shooters.

What does team shooting look like with a Rubio/Ant backcourt? Excellent. Ant started putting up his Star numbers when DLo went down, and that helped Rubio as well.

I really like Rubio as a stabilizing player, and I don't like the idea of wasting another year of Towns, but I feel like the quick fixes always kind of implode (Bulls, Magic). If the pick conveys this year, I'd like to see Minny go for one more high pick, intentionally or not, by playing the team that never really got a chance to play together with Dlo/Ant/?/McDaniels/Towns. If the pick doesn't convey, and Minny gets a star-level prospect this year and owes their first next year, then I'd like to see them consolidate around, let's say Cade/Ant/?/?/Towns and get some veteran forwards in there to try to at least make the play in. Same if the get Suggs, and I think the same with Mobley, except he goes to PF, and then the Rubio/DLo question persists.

I agree. I’m a Russell hater, but I will say that when he came back, under Finch, he looked much better, particularly as a passer. He was okay playing a supporting role as he came back slowly, though I don’t know if that will be true next season (same for Malik Beasley).

If the Wolves keep the pick, I don’t think they should trade it because they need more upside, and more financial relief. If they don’t keep it, they won’t try to tank. They tried to rally at the end of the season by saying they were “not a tanking team,” and went 11-11.

[nzahir]

Graham would be great but feels unlikely for price. Rubio is just very attainable and underrated for playmaking, his impact stats say a positive even though he's not a perimeter great shooter.

Melton would be great.

Kemba is underrated right now and might be gettable.

Melton isn’t a starter on a contender

Kembas injuries worry me, and would require Boston to want to reset things, maybe best for them tbh though with age of Tatum and Brown.

Graham would need to be in a sign and trade, but not sure if that is allowed since he will also be a FA

If indi blows it up, would love Brogdon

Just don’t think we have enough: Dennis, 1st, 2nds

Dennis is not a want in Indy. Also, since he’s a free agent, you can’t include the 1st in this year’s draft with him in a S&T.

You’ve got the ability to deal the 1st in this year’s draft, after the draft. Next 1st isn’t available until 2026 OR 2027, due to NO’s ability to postpone their last pick. You only have 2nds to trade in 2023, 2024, 2025, and 2027 right now. There’s just not a lot there. And THT is about the only real value tradeable piece you have, but he’s a free agent, so you can’t even package the 1st this year with him in a S&T, so you can’t even make your grandest offer of something like Kuzma/THT/2021 1st/2027 1st, which would still require a ton of faith in that 2027 1st being unprotected and the Lakers to no longer be the Lakers in terms of bringing in free agency talent. There’s not a ton of flexibility in terms of trades with value there, unless someone loves Kuzma, or Harrell opts in (as he would at least be a tradeable salary at that point to package with the 1st this year, and wouldn’t require a S&T).

Thank you

Seems tough move Dennis

I would prefer him to stay for about 20m if we can’t get a better fit, still a positive player overall

[Scoot McGroot]

Melton isn’t a starter on a contender

Kembas injuries worry me, and would require Boston to want to reset things, maybe best for them tbh though with age of Tatum and Brown.

Graham would need to be in a sign and trade, but not sure if that is allowed since he will also be a FA

If indi blows it up, would love Brogdon

Just don’t think we have enough: Dennis, 1st, 2nds

Dennis is not a want in Indy. Also, since he’s a free agent, you can’t include the 1st in this year’s draft with him in a S&T.

You’ve got the ability to deal the 1st in this year’s draft, after the draft. Next 1st isn’t available until 2026 OR 2027, due to NO’s ability to postpone their last pick. You only have 2nds to trade in 2023, 2024, 2025, and 2027 right now. There’s just not a lot there. And THT is about the only real value tradeable piece you have, but he’s a free agent, so you can’t even package the 1st this year with him in a S&T, so you can’t even make your grandest offer of something like Kuzma/THT/2021 1st/2027 1st, which would still require a ton of faith in that 2027 1st being unprotected and the Lakers to no longer be the Lakers in terms of bringing in free agency talent. There’s not a ton of flexibility in terms of trades with value there, unless someone loves Kuzma, or Harrell opts in (as he would at least be a tradeable salary at that point to package with the 1st this year, and wouldn’t require a S&T).

Thank you

Seems tough move Dennis

I would prefer him to stay for about 20m if we can’t get a better fit, still a positive player overall

I think you can sign and trade him out, but it can’t realistically be with the 1st this year attached due to logistics of the timing and such. I also think it’s a little tough in that he’s not a can’t miss candidate to be paid too awful much more than the MLE. I think if you could find an undervalue piece elsewhere that Dennis would want to go and you could get a decently useful filler/bench piece close to the salary, that’s going to be ideal.

I don’t know that you want to keep him at $20m+, as I think it will make him quite tough to move down the road, and you’ll be locked into him pretty tight for a couple seasons. Might be worth flexibility under the apron to let him walk if he’s much more than the MLE type range.

[nzahir]

Dennis is not a want in Indy. Also, since he’s a free agent, you can’t include the 1st in this year’s draft with him in a S&T.

You’ve got the ability to deal the 1st in this year’s draft, after the draft. Next 1st isn’t available until 2026 OR 2027, due to NO’s ability to postpone their last pick. You only have 2nds to trade in 2023, 2024, 2025, and 2027 right now. There’s just not a lot there. And THT is about the only real value tradeable piece you have, but he’s a free agent, so you can’t even package the 1st this year with him in a S&T, so you can’t even make your grandest offer of something like Kuzma/THT/2021 1st/2027 1st, which would still require a ton of faith in that 2027 1st being unprotected and the Lakers to no longer be the Lakers in terms of bringing in free agency talent. There’s not a ton of flexibility in terms of trades with value there, unless someone loves Kuzma, or Harrell opts in (as he would at least be a tradeable salary at that point to package with the 1st this year, and wouldn’t require a S&T).

Thank you

Seems tough move Dennis

I would prefer him to stay for about 20m if we can’t get a better fit, still a positive player overall

I think you can sign and trade him out, but it can’t realistically be with the 1st this year attached due to logistics of the timing and such. I also think it’s a little tough in that he’s not a can’t miss candidate to be paid too awful much more than the MLE. I think if you could find an undervalue piece elsewhere that Dennis would want to go and you could get a decently useful filler/bench piece close to the salary, that’s going to be ideal.

I don’t know that you want to keep him at $20m+, as I think it will make him quite tough to move down the road, and you’ll be locked into him pretty tight for a couple seasons. Might be worth flexibility under the apron to let him walk if he’s much more than the MLE type range.

Barely any pg options available

Mle options:
Mills, Rose, Dragic maybe (team option and mle is light I bet)

Very obtainable trade options: Rubio, Bledsoe

Who am I overlooking? Possibly Rozier or Graham for Trez sign and trade with Kuzma?

I rather have Dennis over everyone but Dragic and maybe Mills considering he would cost 1/2 or more

Rose is also not a great offensive fit, worse on D, and has injury concerns

[zimpy27]

Graham would be great but feels unlikely for price. Rubio is just very attainable and underrated for playmaking, his impact stats say a positive even though he's not a perimeter great shooter.

Melton would be great.

Kemba is underrated right now and might be gettable.

Melton isn’t a starter on a contender

Kembas injuries worry me, and would require Boston to want to reset things, maybe best for them tbh though with age of Tatum and Brown.

Graham would need to be in a sign and trade, but not sure if that is allowed since he will also be a FA

If indi blows it up, would love Brogdon

Just don’t think we have enough: Dennis, 1st, 2nds

Dennis is not a want in Indy. Also, since he’s a free agent, you can’t include the 1st in this year’s draft with him in a S&T.

You’ve got the ability to deal the 1st in this year’s draft, after the draft. Next 1st isn’t available until 2026 OR 2027, due to NO’s ability to postpone their last pick. You only have 2nds to trade in 2023, 2024, 2025, and 2027 right now. There’s just not a lot there. And THT is about the only real value tradeable piece you have, but he’s a free agent, so you can’t even package the 1st this year with him in a S&T, so you can’t even make your grandest offer of something like Kuzma/THT/2021 1st/2027 1st, which would still require a ton of faith in that 2027 1st being unprotected and the Lakers to no longer be the Lakers in terms of bringing in free agency talent. There’s not a ton of flexibility in terms of trades with value there, unless someone loves Kuzma, or Harrell opts in (as he would at least be a tradeable salary at that point to package with the 1st this year, and wouldn’t require a S&T).

Yeah it looks bleak IMO. I don't know if any team wants Dennis until he gets a reality check.

I think Rubio is the best target for a starting PG for Lakers. He doesn't shoot well but he defends well and he's a creative playmaker. Biggest problem with Schroeder has been his uncreative playmaking of drive and dish. When Schroeder tries to get creative with passes it leads to TOs.

[Texas Chuck]

Remember when most of us thought Philly traded too much for Tobias Harris and then overpaid him? Dude has been so good. I gotta eat some crow on him.

[HartfordWhalers]

Remember when most of us thought Philly traded too much for Tobias Harris and then overpaid him? Dude has been so good. I gotta eat some crow on him.

You didn't even highlight me.

[ejftw]

Remember when most of us thought Philly traded too much for Tobias Harris and then overpaid him? Dude has been so good. I gotta eat some crow on him.

I would've ate the crow with you, however, Philadelphia didn't keep Boban, so I refuse.

[Diop]

I liked Harris as a 3/4 next to Simmons and Embiid, it was always horford that was the head scratcher for me.

[zimpy27]

Anyone know if you can use a TPE in a sign n trade?

[HartfordWhalers]

Anyone know if you can use a TPE in a sign n trade?

Depends what that means.

Can you have a team sign and trade you a player that fits into an existing TPE if you are not over the hardcap that a sign and trade would cause?

(Yes, it’s a trade)

Can you sign and trade a player for like 8m and use a tpe for 9m and get back a player who costs 17m?

(No, that is aggregating a TPE and doesn’t work)

If a different base case let me know.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Remember when most of us thought Philly traded too much for Tobias Harris and then overpaid him? Dude has been so good. I gotta eat some crow on him.

I would've ate the crow with you, however, Philadelphia didn't keep Boban, so I refuse.

Sometimes bros thrive apart

[HartfordWhalers]

Remember when most of us thought Philly traded too much for Tobias Harris and then overpaid him? Dude has been so good. I gotta eat some crow on him.

I would've ate the crow with you, however, Philadelphia didn't keep Boban, so I refuse.

Sometimes bros thrive apart

Definitely seems to have worked better than having both Morris twins.

[Texas Chuck]

So I want to mention once again how much I loved the Jrue trade when it happened and exactly the difference it would make on the court for the Bucks is playing out. The upgrade from Bledsoe has just been incredibly massive.

Curious if any of those who claimed it wasn't really an upgrade are still standing by that or if they are prepared to concede the obvious now?

[MoneyTalks41890]

So I want to mention once again how much I loved the Jrue trade when it happened and exactly the difference it would make on the court for the Bucks is playing out. The upgrade from Bledsoe has just been incredibly massive.

Curious if any of those who claimed it wasn't really an upgrade are still standing by that or if they are prepared to concede the obvious now?

I thought it was an upgrade because I haven't thought much of Bledsoe, but I wasn't ready for how good Jrue is/has been and have a heaping plate of crow to put down on that. He's been everything they needed on the defensive side while also showing some offensive skills I don't think I knew he had.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Remember when most of us thought Philly traded too much for Tobias Harris and then overpaid him? Dude has been so good. I gotta eat some crow on him.

Between Harris , middleton and THJ. I got enough crow to end world hunger.

Edit: Jrue too

[Texas Chuck]

I think the entire basketball world failed to see Tim Hardaway Jr being this. However he was on Redick's podcast and told a really interesting story that I never realized happened. When the Knicks traded him to the Hawks, Bud went to him right away and said you are not playing the next 25 games no matter what. And according to Tim the Hawks were dealing with some injuries, but that Bud stuck to it and Tim said it really got his attention that he needed to get really serious and he credits Bud with saving his career.

And I think that experience shaped how well he responded in Dallas with a role that has changed numerous times and how he told Rick never worry about me starting or coming off the bench. I want to start but if you need me off the bench I'm okay with that too.

Not sure how well THJ translates away from Luka and Rick, but my opinion of him prior to his 2.5 years in Dallas is night and day different of my opinion of him now. He's is a pro's pro.

[HartfordWhalers]

So I want to mention once again how much I loved the Jrue trade when it happened and exactly the difference it would make on the court for the Bucks is playing out. The upgrade from Bledsoe has just been incredibly massive.

Curious if any of those who claimed it wasn't really an upgrade are still standing by that or if they are prepared to concede the obvious now?

I'm pretty sure I was big on Holiday then, so I'm not taking that loss.

But yeah, Tobias has been much better than I expected. He absolutely needs to play the 4, which is worth remembering for those that think Simmons is best as a 4 with two shooting guards and a sf as well. I still am not 100% sold he isn't just that 10th best pf, and more of a guy you overpay in free agency to be your 3rd/4th best player than a guy you trade oodles for even when you will have the free agent money and then overpay to a 5 year deal. Remember, Philly had the cap space to offer him a max 4 year deal that summer without trading for him before then, and then could have had some nice other assets to improve the team then as well. it felt very rushed as a midseason deal.

I've been impressed with Tobias, and will eat crow.

[BlazersBroncos]

Not sure how well THJ translates away from Luka and Rick, but my opinion of him prior to his 2.5 years in Dallas is night and day different of my opinion of him now. He's is a pro's pro.

He is streaky, but his attitude is exactly what you want around Luka. Mature, team oriented and passionate. I think he really wants to come back as well.