RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote for #11

Moderators: Texas Chuck, BullyKing, Andre Roberstan, loserX, Trader_Joe, Mamba4Goat, pacers33granger, MoneyTalks41890, HartfordWhalers

User avatar
vincecarter4pres
RealGM
Posts: 51,064
And1: 3,840
Joined: May 30, 2005
Location: New Jeruz
Contact:
     

Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote for #11 

Post#41 » by vincecarter4pres » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:56 am

Narf wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:All that aside, he's still going to be out 8 to 10 weeks right?

You're talking best case of mid-March when he's back and playing for a few games and worst case the first week of April when he's actually back in a groove if not later, as in the playoffs if the team that traded for him was in them.

This part? Well said.

vincecarter4pres wrote:Obviously you're not trading for Love as a one year rental, but every year counts and he's had quite the injury history even if most haven't been of the truly severe variety.

This part? What injury history? One broken hand? Love has been relatively healthy for his career.

1
22
9
11

Are the games he's missed so far before this year. this year we're probably talking between 47 and 55.

If he is out 8 weeks that sucks, but Love is the kind of player you build around.

Is he? I'm not so sure to be honest. I think he's more a player you build with.

I dont disagree with LMA having more trade value this second to a contender, but for a rebuilding team I dont think so. You get Love AND you sell tickets while you tank because everyone knows you have a high draft pick and a superstar coming next year.

How are you going to have a high draft pick if you're a lotto team and trade for Love?

Are they trading for him with air?

That pick is destined to be part of the trade package straight unprotected along with future picks, unless... he doesn't have super high trade value.

I believe Love does have very high trade value, but his injury has now knocked that value down at least for this year and maybe for the future cause now you want a lotto team that guts itself of it's top assets to be able to convince him to stay without him playing in the playoffs again. If he asks out it isn't going to be in 2 and a half years, it will be in one and a half.

Also, Love is just the type of prick to stop a trade dead in it's tracks before it happens. He'll certainly be handpicking his next destination. He's not a player there is likely to be an all out bidding war for, especially from desperate bottom feeders.

That right there directly effects trade value in an unbelievable way.

Remember, trade value is not what YOUR team would trade for someone. It is what the highest bidder would trade for someone. I think Melo is overvalued, I think LMA and Love are both undervalued. But clearly we can disagree

Yes and this is what I was talking about. Who is the highest bidder for Love? Just like Melo, he's going to handpick his next team. Maybe he'll give a few teams, won't be a long list though, probably won't include any lotto teams with the high value youth and draft picks we mainly correctly associate with high trade value here on this board.
Image
Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
User avatar
vincecarter4pres
RealGM
Posts: 51,064
And1: 3,840
Joined: May 30, 2005
Location: New Jeruz
Contact:
     

Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote for #11 

Post#42 » by vincecarter4pres » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:59 am

You know, I've actually just convinced myself that I'm bumping him WAY down my list. I've been way overvaluing him. He's going to specifically choose his next team and it will be by trade. Unless that team stumbles into some huge value assets or can dupe a 3rd team, chances are Minny is going to be getting the shaft. Just the way the NBA works to be honest and blunt.
Image
Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
User avatar
Dr Positivity
RealGM
Posts: 62,864
And1: 16,408
Joined: Apr 29, 2009
       

Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote for #11 

Post#43 » by Dr Positivity » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:46 am

Throwing out a FYC for MKG for a nomination soon. I'd vote for him before Lillard and Rubio personally. I think Lillard's trade value is a little overrated right now, he's down to a 16.5 PER and .538 TS% and is a 22 year old volume jumpshooter. I think teams would look at that situation and be worried about it being a rookie OJ Mayo situation, where an older rookie goes onto a team with as many minutes and shots as he wants, puts up really impressive volume numbers, but ultimately flatlines early. I like Lillard to be great and an all-star long term, but in terms of trade value I think his increasingly average numbers for a player with that many shots and minutes, would scare a lot of teams away from taking him this high. To the point where they may even still take Bradley Beal over him with the way he's come on lately, let alone MKG and Drummond. As for Rubio, I've made my feelings clear on him but I wouldn't put him near the top 25, he hasn't even proven he's a starting caliber PG IMO and is a flat out project, even before considering the ACL

I also think Derrick Favors should get nominated soon. His per 36 numbers are 15/10/2.5 and he's 21. Size and defensive potential at C has huge value.
Liberate The Zoomers
Narf
Head Coach
Posts: 6,550
And1: 882
Joined: Sep 05, 2009

Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote for #11 

Post#44 » by Narf » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:22 am

I get why people would make up random crap about Wolves players.
What I don't get is why they actually believe the random crap they make up.

Rubio will never play in Minnesota because he hates Kahn
It's too cold
It's a small market (it's really not, but you can pretend it is)
Rubio even said he was planning on playing in Minnesota, but for whatever reason no matter how many times we posted links to that interview it was just ignored.

Adelman would never play for a cheap owner like Glenn Taylor (not actually cheap, quite the opposite).
Adelman hates Kahn, and has since his days as a reporter.
The Timberwolves don't have enough talent or a competent enough GM to hire a good coach.
Blah blah blah.

Now love hates Minnesota and will force Minnesota to trade him to the team of his choice for next to nothing?

Sure kids. Sure. Make up some other random crap and then believe it.

How long did NBA players essentially blackball the Knicks and Nets because those teams sucked?
How much did their market size matter then?
Did Chris Humphries take a discount to play there?
Allen Houston?
Did you know San Antonio is half the size of the Twin Cities?
How much did their market size matter?
Guess how many players took a discount to play there?

Somehow I think a HOF coach and a team full of young talent will convince Love to stay a while. But you go ahead and believe otherwise. Even if Love demanded a trade to team X, doesn't mean anyone is going to sell him for pennies on the dollar. He's under contract for a few years and I highly doubt he sits out.
User avatar
JoseRizal
General Manager
Posts: 7,973
And1: 2,279
Joined: Oct 21, 2010
 

Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote for #11 

Post#45 » by JoseRizal » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:27 am

V: LMA
N: Deron
User avatar
theokie
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,032
And1: 617
Joined: Dec 22, 2008

Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote for #11 

Post#46 » by theokie » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:48 am

V. Love
N. Ibaka
spearsy23 wrote: Kevin Durant could save a dozen orphans from a fire and realgm would point out that Lebron would have just put the fire out.
User avatar
FNQ
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 62,963
And1: 20,008
Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Location: EOL 6/23
   

Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote for #11 

Post#47 » by FNQ » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:51 am

Maybe I don't watch Aldridge enough, but a sub-average rebounding PF that isn't a great defender and really only above average (at best - career .537% TS, peaked at .560 one year and usually is in the high 30s low 40s) efficiency scorer is really the 11th most valuable player in the league, trade-wise?

What am I missing on LMA? I don't even think he's the best player on his team right now, much less the most valuable trade asset.
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 47,322
And1: 20,917
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
 

Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote for #11 

Post#48 » by HartfordWhalers » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:22 pm

FireNellieQuick wrote:Maybe I don't watch Aldridge enough, but a sub-average rebounding PF that isn't a great defender and really only above average (at best - career .537% TS, peaked at .560 one year and usually is in the high 30s low 40s) efficiency scorer is really the 11th most valuable player in the league, trade-wise?

What am I missing on LMA? I don't even think he's the best player on his team right now, much less the most valuable trade asset.


I'm with this.
Trader_Joe
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 29,176
And1: 3,953
Joined: Jan 19, 2009
 

Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote for #11 

Post#49 » by Trader_Joe » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:55 pm

Narf wrote:I get why people would make up random crap about Wolves players.
What I don't get is why they actually believe the random crap they make up.

Rubio will never play in Minnesota because he hates Kahn
It's too cold
It's a small market (it's really not, but you can pretend it is)
Rubio even said he was planning on playing in Minnesota, but for whatever reason no matter how many times we posted links to that interview it was just ignored.

Adelman would never play for a cheap owner like Glenn Taylor (not actually cheap, quite the opposite).
Adelman hates Kahn, and has since his days as a reporter.
The Timberwolves don't have enough talent or a competent enough GM to hire a good coach.
Blah blah blah.

Now love hates Minnesota and will force Minnesota to trade him to the team of his choice for next to nothing?

Sure kids. Sure. Make up some other random crap and then believe it.

How long did NBA players essentially blackball the Knicks and Nets because those teams sucked?
How much did their market size matter then?
Did Chris Humphries take a discount to play there?
Allen Houston?
Did you know San Antonio is half the size of the Twin Cities?
How much did their market size matter?
Guess how many players took a discount to play there?

Somehow I think a HOF coach and a team full of young talent will convince Love to stay a while. But you go ahead and believe otherwise. Even if Love demanded a trade to team X, doesn't mean anyone is going to sell him for pennies on the dollar. He's under contract for a few years and I highly doubt he sits out.

The point is this on Love... right now....he is injured and may miss most of the rest of the season. He broke his hand for the second time this year and his shooting (a major component of his game) seemingly suffered as a result.

Who trades for him?

A playoff team?
If they do, their seed plummets and they possibly miss the playoffs altogether hoping he comes back in time. So no, I don't think right now a team with playoff aspirations trades for Love.


A non-playoff team?
Love has been very vocal to the media during his time in Minny. He wants to win and he wants to win now (despite his inability to lead his team to the playoffs with epic stats). Now does a non-playoff team trade for him, knowing they most likely will not be a playoff team this season and possibly next depending on what they would have offered up? (And no they won't have a high lotto pick like you implied earlier because they would have traded for it.)

They go into 2013 with basically 1 year to impress Love, because after next season Love turns into the dreaded final year before becoming an unrestricted FA. And yes, I'm with VCP4, I do think he is going to look to go a team like the Lakers that seemingly has made no secret that they have free agent plans for that summer. Either way, it could be another Melodrama/Dwightmare situation for that team as Love will want to go where he thinks he should spend his prime.

And I don't get your putting Minny into the discussion here... in that we are talking about if another team traded for him. I think he's more likely to stay in Minny than most other cities, but it only takes one team with cap space in the summer of his free agency to completely ruin the plans of whatever team has him at the time.
Mikhail Prokhorov wrote:My posse usually needs another vacation after a vacation with me.
deNIEd
Banned User
Posts: 4,942
And1: 30
Joined: Jul 18, 2006

Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote for #11 

Post#50 » by deNIEd » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:24 pm

V: Kevin Love

Return to Trades and Transactions