PMOTT3 and Chuck Texas Early Off-Season Review: Portland Trailblazers

[Dame Lizard]

Given losing LMA was out of Portland's control, and that resigning Lopez and Matthews was basically dependent on LMA, I like our off season moves, except for the RHJ for Plumlee & Pat trade.

Batum for Vonleh was a really good gamble move considering Batum was as good as gone in 2016.

[Takingbaconback]

Given losing LMA was out of Portland's control, and that resigning Lopez and Matthews was basically dependent on LMA, I like our off season moves, except for the RHJ for Plumlee & Pat trade.

Batum for Vonleh was a really good gamble move considering Batum was as good as gone in 2016.

How is LMA leaving out of their control? He was on the blazers for his entire career. Besides it is an off season review and they had it the worst. I can't think of a team that has regressed as much as they did. I don't think there is a team with less talent on their roster than the blazers

[bondom34]

Given losing LMA was out of Portland's control, and that resigning Lopez and Matthews was basically dependent on LMA, I like our off season moves, except for the RHJ for Plumlee & Pat trade.

Batum for Vonleh was a really good gamble move considering Batum was as good as gone in 2016.

How is LMA leaving out of their control? He was on the blazers for his entire career. Besides it is an off season review and they had it the worst. I can't think of a team that has regressed as much as they did. I don't think there is a team with less talent on their roster than the blazers

Ultimately it was LMA's choice and nobody else's. And there are at least a handful of worse teams.

[Takingbaconback]

Given losing LMA was out of Portland's control, and that resigning Lopez and Matthews was basically dependent on LMA, I like our off season moves, except for the RHJ for Plumlee & Pat trade.

Batum for Vonleh was a really good gamble move considering Batum was as good as gone in 2016.

How is LMA leaving out of their control? He was on the blazers for his entire career. Besides it is an off season review and they had it the worst. I can't think of a team that has regressed as much as they did. I don't think there is a team with less talent on their roster than the blazers

Ultimately it was LMA's choice and nobody else's. And there are at least a handful of worse teams.

Well that's what FA ultimately is, isnt it? Players can block trades, refuse to play for certain teams, sign with certain teams. It's not like Portland traded for LMA for half a season and had no time to show why he should stay there. He spent 9 seasons there, imo even as UFA, his departure counts in their offseason grade.

Also this is what Blazers 1st and 2nd unit roster looks like:

Lillard/Frazier
Henderson/McCollum (possibly switched)
Aminu/Harkless
Vonleh/Ed Davis (possibly switched)
Plumlee/Leonard

Which other team in the NBA has less talent than this?

[bondom34]

How is LMA leaving out of their control? He was on the blazers for his entire career. Besides it is an off season review and they had it the worst. I can't think of a team that has regressed as much as they did. I don't think there is a team with less talent on their roster than the blazers

Ultimately it was LMA's choice and nobody else's. And there are at least a handful of worse teams.

Well that's what FA ultimately is, isnt it? Players can block trades, refuse to play for certain teams, sign with certain teams. It's not like Portland traded for LMA for half a season and had no time to show why he should stay there. He spent 9 seasons there, imo even as UFA, his departure counts in their offseason grade.

Also this is what Blazers 1st and 2nd unit roster looks like:

Lillard/Frazier
Henderson/McCollum (possibly switched)
Aminu/Harkless
Vonleh/Ed Davis (possibly switched)
Plumlee/Leonard

Which other team in the NBA has less talent than this?

Philly
LAL
Denver IMO
Probably Minnesota right now (Outside Towns I don't know if they have an advantage anywhere else, maybe K Mart)
NYK
Possibly Dallas
Brooklyn
Possibly Orlando

Could see them finish over all of those teams.

[Chinook]

Think Lillard is mad overrated, and giving him the same contract Davis got is pure lunacy. It's the kind of deal that makes Reggie Jackson's contract seem okay. So in a way, I'm not surprised that they blew it up, since they can't really build around Lillard. It makes sense not to trade him as well, since that's one position you don't have to worry about drafting a guy to fill. Maybe they find a way to swing a trade to get DMC if that sweepstakes ever opens up. Or maybe they can enter the fiesta of next summer's FA class.

All in all, I would give Portland a C+. They were a treadmill team before this (though their treadmill was farther along than some others), and they should be able to rebuild nicely while not outright tanking. Portland seems to draft well, not counting injuries, so I think they can get the right players to make them relevant after this current NBA age is over.

[Texas Chuck]

Think Lillard is mad overrated, and giving him the same contract Davis got is pure lunacy. .

Say what you want about Lillard. He should be making a ton more than Jackson and even the guys buying into the Jackson Kool-Aid would agree with that. He has 3 full years of pretty high level play. No he's not Paul or Westbrook, but he's right there with anyone else. Comparing that to Jackson who put up some big counting numbers for a couple months on a Pistons team with very few other offensive options......Nah

[Downtown]

I'm in the camp that says Neil Olshey hasn't done the best job he could up to this point. He was brought in by owner Paul Allen to give him a team that is a true contender. While he has made a good deal here and there such as the Robin Lopez trade, he also has taken some flyers on guys such as Thomas Robinson. Those deals aren't going to make you a contender.

We all know that he failed to give the starters a good bench and coach Terry Stotts was forced to run his starters into the ground if they were going to compete in the West.

BUT, after this past season I look at it as him making lemonade from lemons. We can go over the Aldridge situation from all kinds of angles, and we have, but the fact is Aldridge was the absolute key, and as mentioned by Wizenheimer there were signs that they already knew he was leaving before the draft by the fact their assistant coach said so, for which he was fired.

So as Sonictecture has said, they had a choice to go full rebuild or try to reload with their own remaining free agents plus keeping Batum. So that's where you have to start. I agree with the Batum trade. Batum was an expiring contract and although he never publicly said it, he always seemed a bit indifferent and made playing for France every summer a priority even when he wasn't 100% healthy, which I'm sure rubbed Portland's front office the wrong way. He suffered through a down season battling nagging injuries. So if Portland thought Batum wasn't going to be there for the longterm, and knowing without Aldridge they weren't going to be able to contend, then they made lemonade by trading him for another solid veteran in Henderson plus taking a chance on a still 19 year old Noah Vonleh. I don't mind that trade at all.

As for Mathews and Lopez, I think those had to be tough decisions. Those two players gave their all and were very loyal to the team. But if you're a cold blooded business type you have to realize that $15mil a season to a player who tore his achilles and likely is going to take quite a while to get back to a level that's even close to where he was isn't a high percentage risk especially given that the team wasn't going to be a contender. So they did what they had to by not attempting to re-sign him.

Lopez on the other hand was a true soldier that could have been kept in my opinion. He was a perfect fit from the moment he arrived and I believe he would have been the perfect fit no matter who they brought in on either side of him. But at $12mil they made the choice to go the cheaper route with Leonard and Plumlee.

Afflalo never really did fit and I don't know why. We all felt he was a great player to bring in at the trade deadline. That one will likely remain an enigma in Trailblazers history.

So now we're on to who they did bring in to fill the holes. I don't look at their draft as any sort of failure. At draft position 23 I don't figure RHJ is going to be a key starter, just a complimentary player. So at that point Olshey must have believed he needed cap space for free agency more than keeping RHJ and Steve Blake. As it turns out that cap space savings hasn't meant a thing.

Again, as mentioned Portland has a difficult time convincing the top free agents that they are a great destination, and they never landed a single one in an offseason where they had as much room to do so as any team. So guys like Davis and Aminu are about as good as they could get. I mean it's not like they didn't try. They met with Monroe, and tried to overpay for Kanter. The thing about having both Davis and Aminu, is along with Henderson, knowing that they don't have any stars other than Lillard to score, at least they have some good defensive guys that can keep the score down a little. Portland has gone from a team known for it's outside shooting to win games to one that will be known for not having many shooters. I think Lillard will have a tough season with teams putting all their defensive pressure on him and make the other players try to hit shots.

As for the rest of the cast, other than McCollum and Leonard, whom the jury is still out on, they are simply reserve players and not key contributors going forward.

It's going to be a lot steeper hill to climb for that franchise now, no question. But at the very least they have put themselves in a decent position to begin to do so. But was it necessary to get this low before trying to get higher in the league standings is the question. Only time will tell. And I mean lots of time.

[Chinook]

Think Lillard is mad overrated, and giving him the same contract Davis got is pure lunacy. .

Say what you want about Lillard. He should be making a ton more than Jackson and even the guys buying into the Jackson Kool-Aid would agree with that. He has 3 full years of pretty high level play. No he's not Paul or Westbrook, but he's right there with anyone else. Comparing that to Jackson who put up some big counting numbers for a couple months on a Pistons team with very few other offensive options......Nah

Yeah, but $145M/5 (if Lillard is an All-Star or All-NBAer this season) is way too much. That's almost twice what Jackson got. And Lillard isn't twice the player Jackson is. $30M/5 better? Sure. $65M/5 ($13 Million per year) better? Absolutely not.

[Texas Chuck]

in the NBA artificially capped salary structure he absolutely is worth twice teh contract of Jackson. You should max out the best players, pay good role players and have everyone else on min deals/rookie contracts/exceptions. Jackson is a role player. Lillard is a max player in this system. The fact that he gets the same is AD just shows under badly underpaid AD is, not that Jackson should get the same as Lillard.

This is the cap world we live in. You don't have to like it, but you probably do want to understand it.

[oldfishermen]

As a long time Blazers fan, the results of their off-season leave me very confused about their future, and beyond disappointed.

We do not know where this new Blazer's roster will hit bottom? Somewhere between 15 and 30 wins appears to be the reasonable range. My guess is 20 wins +- a couple of games.

We also do not know how many seasons it will take for them to become a playoff team again? I believe it will take 4-6 seasons for this young core to develop enough, and rebuild enough just to get back to where the Blazers where a year ago, maybe.

The problem is, many of their young project players will be ready for the playoffs about the same time Lillard will be starting on the down hill side of his career. Which means the combination of all these seasons’ moves does not make a bit of sense.

As far as having so much cap space to work with. Neal Olshey has not used his available cap space in recent past seasons to acquire the much needed bench help the starters needed. Bench help needed to turn a very good starting group into a legitimate contending roster. He has dumpster dived in the past, that is what he is good at.

However, what this roster needs now to become a playoff team is a young veteran (24-28 year old) all-star caliber player. Neal Olshey has about as much chance of finding this all-star as you have of finding a 50# box of hundred dollar bills.

LaMarcus did screw everyone in Portland. He lied to Paul Allen, he betrayed Neal Olsheys trust, and he gave false hope to the fans that also trusted him. However, worst of all, LaMarcus quit on his teammates at the end of the season. Go back and watch the playoffs series, see how LaMarcus mailed in the games, and then he did not fly back with the team after the last game. LaMarcus quit on his teammates. You never ever quit on your team, no matter what adversities fate hits you with.

[Texas Chuck]

LaMarcus did screw everyone in Portland. He lied to Paul Allen, he betrayed Neal Olsheys trust, and he gave false hope to the fans that also trusted him. However, worst of all, LaMarcus quit on his teammates at the end of the season. Go back and watch the playoffs series, see how LaMarcus mailed in the games, and then he did not fly back with the team after the last game. LaMarcus quit on his teammates. You never ever quit on your team, no matter what adversities fate hits you with.

If he re-signed you know you wouldn't view the exact same actions as "quitting". Rondo quit. Lebron quit his last game in a Cavs uniform the first go-around. LMA didn't quit on anybody. He shot poorly. As did Lillard. As did Batum. Give some credit to the Grizzlies for playing great D, accept that sometimes guys just don't make shots.

But I watched that series and LMA certainly didn't "quit". I understand teh bitterness as a fan, but cmon now.

[oldfishermen]

LaMarcus did screw everyone in Portland. He lied to Paul Allen, he betrayed Neal Olsheys trust, and he gave false hope to the fans that also trusted him. However, worst of all, LaMarcus quit on his teammates at the end of the season. Go back and watch the playoffs series, see how LaMarcus mailed in the games, and then he did not fly back with the team after the last game. LaMarcus quit on his teammates. You never ever quit on your team, no matter what adversities fate hits you with.

If he re-signed you know you wouldn't view the exact same actions as "quitting". Rondo quit. Lebron quit his last game in a Cavs uniform the first go-around. LMA didn't quit on anybody. He shot poorly. As did Lillard. As did Batum. Give some credit to the Grizzlies for playing great D, accept that sometimes guys just don't make shots.

But I watched that series and LMA certainly didn't "quit". I understand teh bitterness as a fan, but cmon now.

I will stand by my words; LaMarcus quit giving 100% during the playoffs, when the team needed him the most.

After watching LaMarsha for all 9 seasons, I am calling him a quitter, on many levels.

LaMarcus started quitting on the Blazers 7 seasons ago. He quit playing center, the position he was the most productive at, and the position the team most needed him to play.

LaMarcus has a long history of taking the softest route.

[Chinook]

This is the cap world we live in. You don't have to like it, but you probably do want to understand it.

It's a little patronizing of you to assert I don't know how max contracts affect what players are worth. But no, Lillard isn't worth twice as much as Jackson in any world, and having a cap doesn't change that in the slightest (if anything, it makes it worse, since you seem to think Damien would get more if there wasn't a cap). There simply isn't enough of a difference between them.

Is Reggie overpaid? Yes, egregiously. But Lillard on a Davis deal would be absurdly overpaid, new cap or not. That's a toxic deal, while Jackson's is just burdensome.

[Trader_Joe]

Ultimately it was LMA's choice and nobody else's. And there are at least a handful of worse teams.

Well that's what FA ultimately is, isnt it? Players can block trades, refuse to play for certain teams, sign with certain teams. It's not like Portland traded for LMA for half a season and had no time to show why he should stay there. He spent 9 seasons there, imo even as UFA, his departure counts in their offseason grade.

Also this is what Blazers 1st and 2nd unit roster looks like:

Lillard/Frazier
Henderson/McCollum (possibly switched)
Aminu/Harkless
Vonleh/Ed Davis (possibly switched)
Plumlee/Leonard

Which other team in the NBA has less talent than this?

Philly
LAL
Denver IMO
Probably Minnesota right now (Outside Towns I don't know if they have an advantage anywhere else, maybe K Mart)
NYK
Possibly Dallas
Brooklyn
Possibly Orlando

Could see them finish over all of those teams.

They play in the brutal West.
I don't see them finishing higher than any East team other than Philly, nor do I think they have more talent than any if them other than Philly and LAL. They are also a brand new team who will likely be willing to tank.

[Chinook]

LaMarcus did screw everyone in Portland. He lied to Paul Allen, he betrayed Neal Olsheys trust, and he gave false hope to the fans that also trusted him. However, worst of all, LaMarcus quit on his teammates at the end of the season. Go back and watch the playoffs series, see how LaMarcus mailed in the games, and then he did not fly back with the team after the last game. LaMarcus quit on his teammates. You never ever quit on your team, no matter what adversities fate hits you with.

If he re-signed you know you wouldn't view the exact same actions as "quitting". Rondo quit. Lebron quit his last game in a Cavs uniform the first go-around. LMA didn't quit on anybody. He shot poorly. As did Lillard. As did Batum. Give some credit to the Grizzlies for playing great D, accept that sometimes guys just don't make shots.

But I watched that series and LMA certainly didn't "quit". I understand teh bitterness as a fan, but cmon now.

I will stand by my words; LaMarcus quit giving 100% during the playoffs, when the team needed him the most.

After watching LaMarsha for all 9 seasons, I am calling him a quitter, on many levels.

LaMarcus started quitting on the Blazers 7 seasons ago. He quit playing center, the position he was the most productive at, and the position the team most needed him to play.

LaMarcus has a long history of taking the softest route.

I actually don't disagree with you. I saw part of that Grizzlies series, and I said to the folks on SpursTalk that LMA was already in Silver and Black. You could just see it in his eyes in a similar way as you could see it in James' eyes during that final game against Boston in 2010. I think it's very active to say he quit at that point.

But I don't think it's fair to say he quit before that. The dude was playing through pain trying to give his team the best chance to win. The "softest route" would have been to shut it down when he first got injured. I think he was considering leaving Portland then, but I also think he was committed to giving it his all until he couldn't deny that the Blazers weren't going anywhere.

I don't think he was definitely gone, especially not at the trade deadline. I doubt Portland would have traded him anyway, and I also don't know if LMA would have agreed to sign on with another team long-term anyway. So what package would they have gotten for him? It just seems silly to say his screwed the team over. The fans? Maybe, if he knew he was not 100-percent committed to the team when he was talking about being a Blazer for life. To the FO? Who knows? I doubt it for a lot of reasons.

[bondom34]

Well that's what FA ultimately is, isnt it? Players can block trades, refuse to play for certain teams, sign with certain teams. It's not like Portland traded for LMA for half a season and had no time to show why he should stay there. He spent 9 seasons there, imo even as UFA, his departure counts in their offseason grade.

Also this is what Blazers 1st and 2nd unit roster looks like:

Lillard/Frazier
Henderson/McCollum (possibly switched)
Aminu/Harkless
Vonleh/Ed Davis (possibly switched)
Plumlee/Leonard

Which other team in the NBA has less talent than this?

Philly
LAL
Denver IMO
Probably Minnesota right now (Outside Towns I don't know if they have an advantage anywhere else, maybe K Mart)
NYK
Possibly Dallas
Brooklyn
Possibly Orlando

Could see them finish over all of those teams.

They play in the brutal West.
I don't see them finishing higher than any East team other than Philly, nor do I think they have more talent than any if them other than Philly and LAL. They are also a brand new team who will likely be willing to tank.

Honestly I'd take Lillard over any player on any of those teams sans Melo. After that, I think the roster is still pretty even w/ Denver, and better than the others (again not accounting for conference). Just purely talent I'd take them equal to or over any of those teams.

[Trader_Joe]

Philly
LAL
Denver IMO
Probably Minnesota right now (Outside Towns I don't know if they have an advantage anywhere else, maybe K Mart)
NYK
Possibly Dallas
Brooklyn
Possibly Orlando

Could see them finish over all of those teams.

They play in the brutal West.
I don't see them finishing higher than any East team other than Philly, nor do I think they have more talent than any if them other than Philly and LAL. They are also a brand new team who will likely be willing to tank.

Honestly I'd take Lillard over any player on any of those teams sans Melo. After that, I think the roster is still pretty even w/ Denver, and better than the others (again not accounting for conference). Just purely talent I'd take them equal to or over any of those teams.

I would too, but he's simply not good enough to carry a team on his back to wins in the West. The rest of his starters are fringe starters. One player is not enough to say that team as more talent than the collection of talent most teams have. If this was Curry, Paul or RW at PG I would say otherwise but he's nowhere near their level. 25 wins is going to be tough for them to get in the West. The goal needs to be player development, evaluation, a top pick and opportunistic moves.

[bondom34]

They play in the brutal West.
I don't see them finishing higher than any East team other than Philly, nor do I think they have more talent than any if them other than Philly and LAL. They are also a brand new team who will likely be willing to tank.

Honestly I'd take Lillard over any player on any of those teams sans Melo. After that, I think the roster is still pretty even w/ Denver, and better than the others (again not accounting for conference). Just purely talent I'd take them equal to or over any of those teams.

I would too, but he's simply not good enough to carry a team on his back to wins in the West. The rest of his starters are fringe starters. One player is not enough to say that team as more talent than the collection of talent most teams have. If this was Curry, Paul or RW at PG I would say otherwise but he's nowhere near their level. 25 wins is going to be tough for them to get in the West. The goal needs to be player development, evaluation, a top pick and opportunistic moves.

I'd be shocked if they're sub-30 honestly. That puts them worse than Denver and the Kings last year at under 25, and I just don't see it.

[Trader_Joe]

Honestly I'd take Lillard over any player on any of those teams sans Melo. After that, I think the roster is still pretty even w/ Denver, and better than the others (again not accounting for conference). Just purely talent I'd take them equal to or over any of those teams.

I would too, but he's simply not good enough to carry a team on his back to wins in the West. The rest of his starters are fringe starters. One player is not enough to say that team as more talent than the collection of talent most teams have. If this was Curry, Paul or RW at PG I would say otherwise but he's nowhere near their level. 25 wins is going to be tough for them to get in the West. The goal needs to be player development, evaluation, a top pick and opportunistic moves.

I'd be shocked if they're sub-30 honestly. That puts them worse than Denver and the Kings last year at under 25, and I just don't see it.

Might want to put some money on them. Last odds I saw had them 26.5.
Also Denver was trying to win until the second part of the year with win now pieces like Gallo, Chandler, Lawson, Faried and Sacramento was trying to win with DMC, Gay and Collison. I don't see Portland focusing on winning this year nor do I think they can. Gerald Henderson might be their second best player and I'm not sure Amino or Plumlee are starters on most teams or that Vonleh is ready.