Sheridan: Jennings for Thad Young deal being discussed

[Prokorov]

We already have $40m in cap space and are already worried about overpaying mediocre talent out of necessity.
What good is $12m more next summer?
He would probably go for $15m this summer considering his 15ppg/9rpg/1.5spg on 50% with a near 18 PER.

an extra 2 million allows 2 full max deals.

im in the camp that thinks the only chance the nets have to sign decent free agents is to convince 2 to come here together.

I'd worry about that then.
There will be so much cap space next summer and I'm sure we could shed $2m no problem in the form of Bogs or Thad.

I still don't see what two max FAs would come here, but we've been though this.

we would need to shed alot more then 2 million to offer 2 max deals.

and i dont get it, the point of saying what good is 12 million in cap space, and then saying no problem we can shed cap space getting rid of thad?

[Trader_Joe]

We did fine with him as a starting PF after he came in trade last season and we were doing well with him starting when RHJ was starting as well.

we are 4-10 in games RHJ starts(5-14 in games he played in). I guess i would disagree that we were "doing well" with him and thad starting.

Our starting unit was fine if not good.. I remember it being a top 5/6 5 man unit IIRC

You have to remember Brook and Thad are playing with arguably the worst

PG rotation
Wings
Bench

in the NBA.

Also, we were 15-13 with thad last season. and i'd contribute most of that success to brook lopez having a 2 month period where he played like a star, not to thad young.

Seems Lopez's success happened once Thad was here and we at least know we can be successful with Thad and Brook with a decent supporting cast that they don't have this year.

I'd rather see what we can add to..

RHJ
Thad
Brook

Before gambling on our FA chances of doing better or finding better fits.
Of course if we had a chance to land a better fit at PF, bye bye.

i think we could easily find a better talent and better fit at PF. and i think it would be hard not to replace thad with someone at least as good.

he really isnt playing all that well. solid but not great. 17 per and 52 TS with a negative RAPM.

adding to brook and RHJ. im down with that. i just wouldnt want to let thad cut into my ability to offer a second max deal. especially since we likely need to overpay guys to come here.

I don't think we could ...not at his price. Any better players will be much more money.
I know you like Anderson, but I bet he gets nearly 50% more than Thad ($18m+) and would worry our defense and rebounding becomes worse. Plus.. who would come here without a major overpay?

Again, I don't see how Thad comes in the way of a second max.
If and when that happens...bye bye Thad or Bogs or whoever to make it happen.

Also, won't Jenning's cap hold be more than Thad' salary?
It's a pure salary dump IMO.

[Trader_Joe]

an extra 2 million allows 2 full max deals.

im in the camp that thinks the only chance the nets have to sign decent free agents is to convince 2 to come here together.

I'd worry about that then.
There will be so much cap space next summer and I'm sure we could shed $2m no problem in the form of Bogs or Thad.

I still don't see what two max FAs would come here, but we've been though this.

we would need to shed alot more then 2 million to offer 2 max deals.

and i dont get it, the point of saying what good is 12 million in cap space, and then saying no problem we can shed cap space getting rid of thad?

You said an extra $2m opens up two maxes.

As for B. what don't you get?
If we need the extra cap space I don't see a problem getting.
I do see a problem getting players to take our money though and thus don't want to shed more cap space so we can max out Evan Fournier and Ryan Anderson at best.

[skones]

We already have $40m in cap space and are already worried about overpaying mediocre talent out of necessity.
What good is $12m more next summer?
He would probably go for $15m this summer considering his 15ppg/9rpg/1.5spg on 50% with a near 18 PER.

He IS a mediocre talent getting paid out of necessity.

So we trade him for a higher priced version of him next summer assuming we can land one? (major assumption any FA will come hereas is, but especially with no other players in place)
Seems a lateral move, if not a step back.

Did I miss something? Where did you pay for a higher priced version of him? Cap flexibility and not making those decisions are key here. If you don't think your management is capable of that, well then that's a much larger issue than is this trade.

[Trader_Joe]

He IS a mediocre talent getting paid out of necessity.

So we trade him for a higher priced version of him next summer assuming we can land one? (major assumption any FA will come hereas is, but especially with no other players in place)
Seems a lateral move, if not a step back.

Did I miss something? Where did you pay for a higher priced version of him? Cap flexibility and not making those decisionas are key here. If you don't think your management is capable of that, well then that's a much larger issue than is this trade.

We don't have management to trust and no we did not trust the last regime.
Cap flexibility is overrated when a. We have $40m in cap space already b. This is going to be the summer of overpaid FAs (what we have been notorious for) and c. all but a handful of teams have major cap flexibility this summer.

What exactly does even more cap flexibility do for us exactly?
It's not like we have assets to add to it to bring in more talent and it's not like any other team wouldn't have cap space to facilitate trades and deals if needed.

[Prokorov]

Our starting unit was fine if not good.. I remember it being a top 5/6 5 man unit IIRC

not good enough to win, or even not be terrible.

Seems Lopez's success happened once Thad was here and we at least know we can be successful with Thad and Brook with a decent supporting cast that they don't have this year.

this assumes that lopez can play at a 23/10 level. i dont think he can. i also think it was thad that allowed brook to play at a high level. if that was the case lopez wouldnt have tailed off, and lopez would still be doing it this season.

even with thad/brook and better players last year, you are looking at a 15-13 record... and thats only at seasons end, when alot of teams are tanking and resting.

im not saying anything definitively, but im not resting my hope on a 28 game sample late in the season where it was brook who did the heavy lifting not thad. and if brook needed a PF next to him to excel, then i think he would still do so next a PF better then thad.

I don't think we could ...not at his price. Any better players will be much more money.
I know you like Anderson, but I bet he gets nearly 50% more than Thad ($18m+) and would worry our defense and rebounding becomes worse. Plus.. who would come here without a major overpay?

id rather overpay a better player then Thad, then have thad on a good contract. i also dont see us getting worse if we ended up settling on someone like ryan anderson. i mean we are 12-39, how much worse can we really get? our defense is already poor. i think the three point shooting he would provide if anything would help us. better fit especially with non shooters like RHJ in the lineup.

but back to the main point. id rather overpay someone like horford or derozan or whomever we go after then underpay thad. those guys are #1 or #2 players on playoff teams.

Again, I don't see how Thad comes in the way of a second max.
If and when that happens...bye bye Thad or Bogs or whoever to make it happen.

1) getting rid of box doesnt allow for 2 max deals.
2) "bye bye thad" is my argument. i dont get the point of defending thad, then saying we can get rid of thad?

Also, won't Jenning's cap hold be more than Thad' salary?
It's a pure salary dump IMO.

not if you renounce jennings rights. and a salary dump is a big part of why id do the deal(as mentoned id need a pick)

[Prokorov]

You said an extra $2m opens up two maxes.

i dont recall saying that. id i did, i mistyped. i said(or should have said) getting rid of thads 12 million opens up 2 max deals.

As for B. what don't you get?
If we need the extra cap space I don't see a problem getting.
I do see a problem getting players to take our money though and thus don't want to shed more cap space so we can max out Evan Fournier and Ryan Anderson at best.

i think we could do better then fournier and anderson. id think that would be closer to our worst then our best. if you feel thats the best we can do in free agency, then i guess i see where you are coming from.

although if thats the case, id want to dump thad even more, since a role player like him doesnt really have much value on a lottery team, and we would be wise to turn him into whatever draft pick we can

[Trader_Joe]

Our starting unit was fine if not good.. I remember it being a top 5/6 5 man unit IIRC

not good enough to win, or even not be terrible.

Most important part of a team is the starting 5.
RHJ/Thad/Brook was the heart of it
JJ was/is terrible (was worse then)
Jack was Jack (awful)

But it was our bench that killed us.

Seems Lopez's success happened once Thad was here and we at least know we can be successful with Thad and Brook with a decent supporting cast that they don't have this year.

this assumes that lopez can play at a 23/10 level. i dont think he can. i also think it was thad that allowed brook to play at a high level. if that was the case lopez wouldnt have tailed off, and lopez would still be doing it this season.

even with thad/brook and better players last year, you are looking at a 15-13 record... and thats only at seasons end, when alot of teams are tanking and resting.

im not saying anything definitively, but im not resting my hope on a 28 game sample late in the season where it was brook who did the heavy lifting not thad. and if brook needed a PF next to him to excel, then i think he would still do so next a PF better then thad.

Lopez is succeeding again (not the team.. but again worst PGs/Wings/Bench) under Brown since he is using him properly.

I don't think we could ...not at his price. Any better players will be much more money.
I know you like Anderson, but I bet he gets nearly 50% more than Thad ($18m+) and would worry our defense and rebounding becomes worse. Plus.. who would come here without a major overpay?

id rather overpay a better player then Thad, then have thad on a good contract. i also dont see us getting worse if we ended up settling on someone like ryan anderson. i mean we are 12-39, how much worse can we really get? our defense is already poor. i think the three point shooting he would provide if anything would help us. better fit especially with non shooters like RHJ in the lineup.

but back to the main point. id rather overpay someone like horford or derozan or whomever we go after then underpay thad. those guys are #1 or #2 players on playoff teams.

Well yeah.. but those guys aren't coming here. DD will want to stay on a contender in Toronto and Horford probably a contender anywhere but here.

Again, I don't see how Thad comes in the way of a second max.
If and when that happens...bye bye Thad or Bogs or whoever to make it happen.

1) getting rid of box doesnt allow for 2 max deals.
2) "bye bye thad" is my argument. i dont get the point of defending thad, then saying we can get rid of thad?

You said $2m more was a second max so I included Bogs.. read your first reply

Bye Bye Thad is simple.
If we need the extra cap space for a better player or fit (or both) bye bye.
If not, he can stay.
You think we will lure in better fits and FAs.. I don't.
But if we did, you make moves then. Happens all the time.

[Prokorov]

not good enough to win, or even not be terrible.

Most important part of a team is the starting 5.
RHJ/Thad/Brook was the heart of it
JJ was/is terrible (was worse then)
Jack was Jack (awful)

But it was our bench that killed us.

most teams benchs kill them. the good teams have starting 5s that drastically outplay the opponent, so when their bench comes in all they have to do is maintain, or not completely blow a solid lead.

maybe a few teams have deep benches that crush it, but that really is a rare case.

Most teams don't have a top 5 starting unit.
Don't get your point here.

Lopez is succeeding again (not the team.. but again worst PGs/Wings/Bench) under Brown since he is using him properly.

this to me proves its more brook coaching then thad though. thad was here before brown made any changes and brook wasnt the same guy. i dont see why you cant get the same or better brook lopez without thad young. especially if not having thad young means an extra max player

Not saying you can't... like always I'm saying I don't see a better fit or player coming here.

Well yeah.. but those guys aren't coming here. DD will want to stay on a contender in Toronto and Horford probably a contender anywhere but here.

agree to disagree

Come on now.
Why would DD leave a contender for us?
Why would Horford leave Atlanta and ignore so many better situations for us?

Bye Bye Thad is simple.
If we need the extra cap space for a better player or fit (or both) bye bye.

thats kind of my entire argument. we need the cap space, so he can go bye bye

We don't need it... we may not even have the $40m we have currently. We have no idea who will be willing to come here and for what. If we do need, we make moves then. IF two max players want to come here or go to any team, it has rarely stopped them from happening before. There is a plethora of cap space out there next summer....again if if if there are players worth spending it on.

Your optimism regarding Free Agency astounds me.

[skones]

So we trade him for a higher priced version of him next summer assuming we can land one? (major assumption any FA will come hereas is, but especially with no other players in place)
Seems a lateral move, if not a step back.

Did I miss something? Where did you pay for a higher priced version of him? Cap flexibility and not making those decisionas are key here. If you don't think your management is capable of that, well then that's a much larger issue than is this trade.

We don't have management to trust and no we did not trust the last regime.
Cap flexibility is overrated when a. We have $40m in cap space already b. This is going to be the summer of overpaid FAs (what we have been notorious for) and c. all but a handful of teams have major cap flexibility this summer.

What exactly does even more cap flexibility do for us exactly?
It's not like we have assets to add to it to bring in more talent and it's not like any other team wouldn't have cap space to facilitate trades and deals if needed.

I just don't understand people who use the argument, "What does cap flexibility do if we cant sign free agents, or we'll just screw it up anyway." What cap flexibility does is put you in a position of strength. Free agent frenzy this year. Once a few guys are off the board, don't you think there'll be a few teams willing to deal away assets in order to she pay roll and squeeze a few extra dollars into free agency acquisitions? It happens every year.

[Trader_Joe]

Did I miss something? Where did you pay for a higher priced version of him? Cap flexibility and not making those decisionas are key here. If you don't think your management is capable of that, well then that's a much larger issue than is this trade.

We don't have management to trust and no we did not trust the last regime.
Cap flexibility is overrated when a. We have $40m in cap space already b. This is going to be the summer of overpaid FAs (what we have been notorious for) and c. all but a handful of teams have major cap flexibility this summer.

What exactly does even more cap flexibility do for us exactly?
It's not like we have assets to add to it to bring in more talent and it's not like any other team wouldn't have cap space to facilitate trades and deals if needed.

I just don't understand people who use the argument, "What does cap flexibility do if we cant sign free agents, or we'll just screw it up anyway." What cap flexibility does is put you in a position of strength. Free agent frenzy this year. Once a few guys are off the board, don't you think there'll be a few teams willing to deal away assets in order to she pay roll and squeeze a few extra dollars into free agency acquisitions? It happens every year.

Yes and everyone and there mother will be in a position to help out.

Nothing about us will make us unique and we have nothing to add to our cap space to get better players. I don't really want to be the team that took on Omer Asik, Enes Kanter or the other mistakes just so we can get a well protected first.

This is not a good summer for cap space.. it is a frenzy for the free agents themselves, not the teams. It's a relatively weak FA class and there are going to be some horrendous contracts out there.

[SV1113]

I Think the nets should target Horford and conley in the off-season so i'd be cool w/ moving thad in a cost saving move. he's a solid player but he isn't really a difference maker

[Prokorov]

Yes and everyone and there mother will be in a position to help out.

Nothing about us will make us unique and we have nothing to add to our cap space to get better players. I don't really want to be the team that took on Omer Asik, Enes Kanter or the other mistakes just so we can get a well protected first.

This is not a good summer for cap space.. it is a frenzy for the free agents themselves, not the teams. It's a relatively weak FA class and there are going to be some horrendous contracts out there.

missing out on free agents doesnt mean you have to sign guys like asik or kanter.

conversly, not having the cap space does ensure you will miss out on the top dollar free agents.

there is nothing preventing the nets from waiting to make a splash in 2017 free agency if they swing and miss in 2016.

also, you insinuate that the nets are an unattractive team for free agents. if thats true in 2016 im not sure it wouldnt aslo be true in 2017

[Domejandro]

If Brooklyn can trade Thad for an expiring contract, I personally believe they should take it and run.

[Trader_Joe]

If Brooklyn can trade Thad for an expiring contract, I personally believe they should take it and run.

As a
Lesser player
Expiring (PO)
Making a higher % of the cap

He got Philly a top 10 protected.

He's locked up, in his prime, having a career year on 15/9/1.2 spg on 51% and 17.5 PER
Yet he has less value now?
Interesting...

[Domejandro]

If Brooklyn can trade Thad for an expiring contract, I personally believe they should take it and run.

As a
Lesser player
Expiring (PO)
Making a higher % of the cap

He got Philly a top 10 protected.

He's locked up, in his prime, having a career year on 15/9/1.2 spg on 51% and 17.5 PER
Yet he has less value now?
Interesting...

What he received in the past is irrelevant; Michael Carter-Williams netted the golden Lakers pick, but he would get nowhere near that value now.

As a side-note, I was behind the Thaddeus Young trade, but now I regret it.

[Trader_Joe]

If Brooklyn can trade Thad for an expiring contract, I personally believe they should take it and run.

As a
Lesser player
Expiring (PO)
Making a higher % of the cap

He got Philly a top 10 protected.

He's locked up, in his prime, having a career year on 15/9/1.2 spg on 51% and 17.5 PER
Yet he has less value now?
Interesting...

What he received in the past is irrelevant; Michael Carter-Williams netted the golden Lakers pick, but he would get nowhere near that value now.

As a side-note, I was behind the Thaddeus Young trade, but now I regret it.

If a player was playing worse or got a major raise I'd agree.

This was less than two years ago.

He is better now (career year)
Making a smaller % of the cap
Locked up during his prime as opposed to expiring because of his PO

I realized he and your team disappointed during his short tenure but I don't think that's reason to make a claim that he's lost significant value relative to when Minny acquired him.

[bondom34]

The issue isn't trading him for an expiring, its trading him for an expiring, then needing to sign a PF and probably paying a similar/worse player more money.

[Texas Chuck]

He's rebounding way better than he ever has in the past. But pretty much everything else is about in line with what he's always done. I don't see this as some career year by any means. He's below his already pretty meh career efficiency numbers, he still takes all his shots within 10 feet.

Basically he's a good player, but his lack of range is a real problem particularly as a starter. If you have a center with range or you play him off the bench then okay sure. So for those who are willing to live with his kinda garbageman game, he's probably fairly paid and you could get a small asset for him.

But for most teams, I can't see him being acceptable as a starter and he starts to look more like Faried--a good player whose game just doesn't easily translate and thus not much value.

[bondom34]

I'd say that's fair, but the bigger thing to me is looking at the Nets free agent history, they've had to overpay guys and never really landed big names via free agency. So if they go into the offseason and miss, then they get a worse deal than this.