Can somebody please explain why Nikola Vucevic trade value is so low?

[ejftw]

pau gasol could not play d...he won a couple rings..they have similar games...as 2nd or 3rd option like he is paid...really paid more like 5th or 6th option...his value on this board is under-rated .also pretty sure if he played for la or Chicago his free throws would be 6-8 a game easy...lol..not sure it is by REAL GMS...lol

Prime Pau may not have been a great defender but he was decent to solid at the least with a much more polished offensive repertoire and the ability to consistently set up teammates from the post.

The two are not comparable, at all. Pau is night and day better.

If Vuc is as great as you are making him out to be, then by all means, please keep him and do battle. Afterall, why would you want to trade such an amazing player anyway?

[Who-rod]

I think the problem with guys like Vucevic, is not that they are not good, or skilled, or valuable, as much as it's very challenging to find someone that fits with them to form a winning front court. There just aren't a lot of defensive, shot altering, PFs that can stretch the floor. And when your center is a defensive liability, and needs room in the paint to operate, that's the kind of player you need.

[Golabki]

I think the problem with guys like Vucevic, is not that they are not good, or skilled, or valuable, as much as it's very challenging to find someone that fits with them to form a winning front court. There just aren't a lot of defensive, shot altering, PFs that can stretch the floor. And when your center is a defensive liability, and needs room in the paint to operate, that's the kind of player you need.

And if you can find a PF like that (e.g. Ibaka) you actually need him to play a fair amount of center anyway.

[Pacersike]

I don't know but the perception that Vucevic isn't Vogel's type of center might have something to do with it.

I'm curious to find out how Vogel is going to use Vucevic. I don't see why he shouldn't be able to build a good defensive team around Nikola or why Vucevic is definitely not going to be the next 3 point shooting big in this league. If guys like Horford can do it, why not Vucevic?

[loserX]

Orlando is built a bit backwards...all their defence comes from their wings but all their shooting has to come from inside. And it's not working. That means everyone's value is going to dip a bit.

I'll be very interested to see what Vogel does, but the roster is also going to need some work. Hennigan has a lotto pick and capspace at his disposal so I'll be curious to see what kinds of changes he makes.

[orlando_joe]

pau gasol could not play d...he won a couple rings..they have similar games...as 2nd or 3rd option like he is paid...really paid more like 5th or 6th option...his value on this board is under-rated .also pretty sure if he played for la or Chicago his free throws would be 6-8 a game easy...lol..not sure it is by REAL GMS...lol

Prime Pau may not have been a great defender but he was decent to solid at the least with a much more polished offensive repertoire and the ability to consistently set up teammates from the post.

The two are not comparable, at all. Pau is night and day better.

If Vuc is as great as you are making him out to be, then by all means, please keep him and do battle. Afterall, why would you want to trade such an amazing player anyway?

I never said I wanted to trade him? never said amazing? never said as good as prime gasol?...gasol made max almost every yr...vuc makes almost 50% of next yrs max...lol....I mean 1 assist a game more for gasol? vuc assist and passing is getting better...you have to have guys on team that make open shots to get assist...wow ...wonder how he would be with prime kobe and Bynum...phil as a coach.....might get 1 more assist and a few more free throws...and get away with fouls on defence like those type of teams get..no player other then him ever draw a double team..on any team he played for in Orlando...it makes a difference

[R-DAWG]

Really would depend on if a player they liked slid to 11. Wade Baldwin (12 in DEx mock) would probably be there. He and Hezonja would work for me. Would balance Sixers roster and might help bring his friend Saric over.

But why would Orlando trade 2 cost controlled guys with upside for a guy they have to pay big money to?

Noel is more of a proven player than either of the cost controlled guys. He just turned 22 last month and his game and body are still developing. He still has a lot of upside. There is Risk either way. Risk of resigning him (as a RFA it is diminished) versus risk that cost controlled young players do not turn out.

My point is that Orlando would be more inclinded to move the assets on the back end of their rookie deals than the assets on the front end of their rookie deals in exchange for a player who's in the final year of his rookie deal. I'd also assume Orlando would prefer a 1 for 1 swap.

Anyway, I think asking for both Hezonja and #11 is too much.

Payton and #11 for Noel and 24 seems more like the correct value to me, and even there I think Orlando is paying a premium.

[tiderulz]

Really would depend on if a player they liked slid to 11. Wade Baldwin (12 in DEx mock) would probably be there. He and Hezonja would work for me. Would balance Sixers roster and might help bring his friend Saric over.

But why would Orlando trade 2 cost controlled guys with upside for a guy they have to pay big money to?

Noel is more of a proven player than either of the cost controlled guys. He just turned 22 last month and his game and body are still developing. He still has a lot of upside. There is Risk either way. Risk of resigning him (as a RFA it is diminished) versus risk that cost controlled young players do not turn out.

sorry, i cant get behind Noel being a more proven player than Vuc. Noel does have a better defensive game, but Vuc destroys him offensively. Vuc even has range to the 3 pt line and i bet he comes back this year having range from 3. doesnt have the injury concerns Noel does, rebounds better, passes better. yeah, Noel isnt a more proven player

[R-DAWG]

But why would Orlando trade 2 cost controlled guys with upside for a guy they have to pay big money to?

Noel is more of a proven player than either of the cost controlled guys. He just turned 22 last month and his game and body are still developing. He still has a lot of upside. There is Risk either way. Risk of resigning him (as a RFA it is diminished) versus risk that cost controlled young players do not turn out.

sorry, i cant get behind Noel being a more proven player than Vuc. Noel does have a better defensive game, but Vuc destroys him offensively. Vuc even has range to the 3 pt line and i bet he comes back this year having range from 3. doesnt have the injury concerns Noel does, rebounds better, passes better. yeah, Noel isnt a more proven player

He was comparing Noel to Hezpnja and the 11th pick.

[R-DAWG]

Orlando is built a bit backwards...all their defence comes from their wings but all their shooting has to come from inside. And it's not working. That means everyone's value is going to dip a bit.

I'll be very interested to see what Vogel does, but the roster is also going to need some work. Hennigan has a lotto pick and capspace at his disposal so I'll be curious to see what kinds of changes he makes.

This is one of the best analysis of Orlando that I have seen. In a vacuum all their moves made sense and I like all their players. But the roster just doesn't work.

[Lovetron Joe]

Noel is more of a proven player than either of the cost controlled guys. He just turned 22 last month and his game and body are still developing. He still has a lot of upside. There is Risk either way. Risk of resigning him (as a RFA it is diminished) versus risk that cost controlled young players do not turn out.

sorry, i cant get behind Noel being a more proven player than Vuc. Noel does have a better defensive game, but Vuc destroys him offensively. Vuc even has range to the 3 pt line and i bet he comes back this year having range from 3. doesnt have the injury concerns Noel does, rebounds better, passes better. yeah, Noel isnt a more proven player

He was comparing Noel to Hezpnja and the 11th pick.

Yes I was. Thanks.

[Showtime:Part2]

I just don't get it, yes he has limited defensive potential but I also don't think he has been coached up very well. I'd never trade Vuc this season based on the way this board views him... Some people are calling him a bench player, have you guys seen some of the Centers in this league? The kid is:

25 years old
On a great contract
Scores 18 pts a games
grabs 9/10 rebounds a game (career)

Look what Vogel did for Hibbert, I'm giving Vuc time under him and I strongly urge that you guys watch him actually play this season then maybe some of these trades will make more sense.

Two words:
DE
FENSE

Yeah but explain to me why Vuc would not fetch a late lottery pick from some of you guys but Okafor could get the #2 pick...same player and Okafor has off court issues...just silly IMO

oakfor is 20 and on a rookie deal

[ejftw]

pau gasol could not play d...he won a couple rings..they have similar games...as 2nd or 3rd option like he is paid...really paid more like 5th or 6th option...his value on this board is under-rated .also pretty sure if he played for la or Chicago his free throws would be 6-8 a game easy...lol..not sure it is by REAL GMS...lol

Prime Pau may not have been a great defender but he was decent to solid at the least with a much more polished offensive repertoire and the ability to consistently set up teammates from the post.

The two are not comparable, at all. Pau is night and day better.

If Vuc is as great as you are making him out to be, then by all means, please keep him and do battle. Afterall, why would you want to trade such an amazing player anyway?

I never said I wanted to trade him? never said amazing? never said as good as prime gasol?...gasol made max almost every yr...vuc makes almost 50% of next yrs max...lol....I mean 1 assist a game more for gasol? vuc assist and passing is getting better...you have to have guys on team that make open shots to get assist...wow ...wonder how he would be with prime kobe and Bynum...phil as a coach.....might get 1 more assist and a few more free throws...and get away with fouls on defence like those type of teams get..no player other then him ever draw a double team..on any team he played for in Orlando...it makes a difference

If you aren't inclined to trade him, why does his perceived trade value even matter to you?

You say he isn't as good as prime Pau, yet you keep comparing the two and trying to show that he is on the same level. Pau was just on another floor when he was with Memphis and then Los Angeles.

In all reality, Vuc doesn't have high value and Orlando would be better off riding him out.

[R-DAWG]

Really would depend on if a player they liked slid to 11. Wade Baldwin (12 in DEx mock) would probably be there. He and Hezonja would work for me. Would balance Sixers roster and might help bring his friend Saric over.

But why would Orlando trade 2 cost controlled guys with upside for a guy they have to pay big money to?

Noel is more of a proven player than either of the cost controlled guys. He just turned 22 last month and his game and body are still developing. He still has a lot of upside. There is Risk either way. Risk of resigning him (as a RFA it is diminished) versus risk that cost controlled young players do not turn out.

Cost vs risk. We know Orlando would have the advantage in resigning him. Are are better off gambling on 2 cost controlled guys or paying 1 guy a lot of money. Noel has proven more than Herzonja or a pick in this years draft but that doesn't mean he's proven much.

It's much easier to gamble on a player when it doesn't come with a $60-80m price tag, which Noel comes with. And while he's proven more than Herzonja and '16 #11, he hasn't proven $60-80m more.

[Smitty731]

I'm not going to comment on Vuc's value, because I've said and written plenty on that topic, but I have two things:

1. Nylon Calculus is one of the best stats-based basketball sites out there. Anyone calling shady is so far off it isn't even funny.

2. Threads like this are ridiculous and basically baiting. They are posted just so the OP and that team/player's fans can say "Here is why you are wrong" when responding. Just start the thread with "Here is why you are wrong on Player X/Team X..." vs saying "why do you all feel this way?". And yes there is a difference. I'm tempted to lock all threads like this on first glance, but I defer. And generally I find I'm rarely off with my original instinct.

[tiderulz]

sorry, i cant get behind Noel being a more proven player than Vuc. Noel does have a better defensive game, but Vuc destroys him offensively. Vuc even has range to the 3 pt line and i bet he comes back this year having range from 3. doesnt have the injury concerns Noel does, rebounds better, passes better. yeah, Noel isnt a more proven player

He was comparing Noel to Hezpnja and the 11th pick.

Yes I was. Thanks.

gotcha ok, my bad and misunderstanding

[Wade]

I don't think there's any question Vucevic is far more valuable to the Magic than he is any other team in the NBA. I believe that's where the disparity in value comes from -- he is worth that much to this roster, and he is worth that little to the rest of the rosters in the NBA. Such is the way of team-building.

[Coeur]

I think the problem with guys like Vucevic, is not that they are not good, or skilled, or valuable, as much as it's very challenging to find someone that fits with them to form a winning front court. There just aren't a lot of defensive, shot altering, PFs that can stretch the floor. And when your center is a defensive liability, and needs room in the paint to operate, that's the kind of player you need.

Porzingis

[OrlandoNed]

It's sad that a fellow Magic fan has to ask this question. A team with aspirations of playoff success (winning there, not getting there) will not have it with a poor defender as their starting center. It just doesn't work. The center position is the one of the 5 positions in basketball where good defense is an absolute necessity for a team to succeed.

I don't hate Vucevic, but he would be better off being a 6th man for Orlando like Kanter with OKC with an athletic defender and rebounder starting at center.

[Wade]

Teams have won championships with guys like Erick Dampier, Joel Anthony, Kendrick Perkins as their "rim protector." I think it isn't in the realm of absurdity to say that a complimentary piece to Vucevic has the potential to work, and that it doesn't need to be the other way around the way the Thunder have tried (and failed) with Kanter.