Sacramento early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Slava)

[bwgood77]

What makes this tough to chew on is the future outgoing picks, or potential swap.

You are forced to try and win now, which is fine, but if a "miracle" asset deal was offered its a danged if you do or don't sort of feeling.

So basically all in on Cousins.

2019 unprotected out.

It leads to an apathetic outlook.

It wasn't too long ago when we had Tyreke, Thomas, Cousins all here and you could sense/feel like something was on the verge of happening.

When our the pick swaps? What did you trade an unprotected pick for?

If the pick swap is 2018 then this might be the year go really young. Especially since most of the really bad teams are trying to win at this point.

[blind prophet]

What makes this tough to chew on is the future outgoing picks, or potential swap.

You are forced to try and win now, which is fine, but if a "miracle" asset deal was offered its a danged if you do or don't sort of feeling.

So basically all in on Cousins.

2019 unprotected out.

It leads to an apathetic outlook.

It wasn't too long ago when we had Tyreke, Thomas, Cousins all here and you could sense/feel like something was on the verge of happening.

When our the pick swaps? What did you trade an unprotected pick for?

If the pick swap is 2018 then this might be the year go really young. Especially since most of the really bad teams are trying to win at this point.

No swap in 2018, that pick is all Sacramento's

Philly can swap this year if its 1-10. Bulls get the pick 11-30

So we are in a unknown situation where we legitimately may be one of the worst teams in basketball in 2019 if nothing improves.

That pick was part of the deal to free up cap space with Philly.

That should be a lesson to anyone on the price of cap room right at the start of free agency.

The actual swap is not too annoying though, but what it does do is keep you from rebuilding now. You've got no incentive to do so. The hand is forced.

[SacKingZZZ]

I'd argue that the biggest thing the Kings need to do at this point is stabilize their public image, both in the eyes of the general public and around the league. We talk about FA signings as if they occur in a vacuum, but it may well be that Divac talked to other guys and Temple/Tolliver/Barnes et al were the guys who wanted to come.

And I'm not disagreeing with that part. The part I'm having issue with it is I really don't think they managed to do that. For me, there was one of two directions to go. Either they overpay for the "right" veteran FA similar to what the Lakers did OR opt to overpay in terms of 1 year deals. I mean, look at guys like Jeff Green. He signed a 1 year deal. You mean to tell me you throw a few more million at him, and promise him a semi-significant role he wouldn't opt for that? To me, their FA spending seems to be spending for the sake of spending. There's no direction, and for me none of those FA signings really don't stabilize the franchise IMO.

I'm really not a big fan of 1-year deals, honestly—not long enough to get Bird or non-Bird rights if the player outperforms or wants a longer contract.

My best guess (and some of this is informed by some of his interviews) is that Vlade went into the offseason with a checklist that said:

* Stretch 4
* Cousins insurance
* Young guy to replace Koufos
* Wing defense
* Wing ballhandler

and just did whatever he had to to fill out that checklist. Maybe he's just waiting to get a PG right now. One hopes.

I don't think the Lakers are a good example here, to be honest. What the Lakers did feels like "we're overpaying guys who we know are solid right now to train/provide help for our young players, and those deals expire before we really start feeling the financial pinch".

Kings are in a different stage, and honestly an unenviable one. They're not a destination for the city. They're not a destination for their front office. They're not a destination for winning. There aren't guys lining up to play with Boogie. To succeed in a smaller market you have to be a destination city (Miami) or an organization with a sterling reputation (San Antonio) or draft really really well (Oklahoma City) or make solid value moves (Memphis). Probably some combination of 2 of those.

It's not really optimal, I agree. But they at least have guys that fit the description of what a team around Boogie should look like in the broadest sense, even if it's not a super-talented group, and I think for the first time in a long while ownership, coaching and front office are all on the same page. That counts for at least something in my book.

And that's why for the first time since Geoff Petrie was the Kings GM, I feel hopeful that the dude running the show knows what he's doing. Last year the Kings needed all the same things and ended up with Rondo and Koufos as the main prizes. Great value players but didn't solve any of the consistent issues.

Also, just so everyone knows, apparently Tolliver and Temple were contacted by the Kings very early and were definite targets of theirs from the start. The Kings have options on Tolliver and Afflalo as well, or their deals are only partially guaranteed I think.

[SacKingZZZ]

When you look at the Kings draft and signings as two completely different entities the Kings offseason makes more sense I think. The draft was about recouping some young talent to build with in case the Kings end up a little light in terms of draft picks moving forward and they have to rebuild. Papagiannis is an upside pick with serious bust potential, Malachi Richardson was a Cousins pick as they had been working out together in Vegas pre-draft, and after that may be the real goods with Skal Labissiere and Bogdan Bogdanovic coming out of the draft for the Kings.

The signings were fitting role players and another Cuz demand with Matt Barnes. Tolliver and Temple bring defense, shooting, and a good locker room presence. Afflalo on his worst day is a better scorer than anyone the Kings had at SG last year and I'm eager to see if Joerger puts him in the post more.

There are still questions though because will Gay be there at the start of the season? And if he isn't how much does that hurt the Kings talent wise? The Kings have to be careful in moving him because I don't think they can assume they have enough talent without him.

[bwgood77]

What makes this tough to chew on is the future outgoing picks, or potential swap.

You are forced to try and win now, which is fine, but if a "miracle" asset deal was offered its a danged if you do or don't sort of feeling.

So basically all in on Cousins.

2019 unprotected out.

It leads to an apathetic outlook.

It wasn't too long ago when we had Tyreke, Thomas, Cousins all here and you could sense/feel like something was on the verge of happening.

When our the pick swaps? What did you trade an unprotected pick for?

If the pick swap is 2018 then this might be the year go really young. Especially since most of the really bad teams are trying to win at this point.

No swap in 2018, that pick is all Sacramento's

Philly can swap this year if its 1-10. Bulls get the pick 11-30

So we are in a unknown situation where we legitimately may be one of the worst teams in basketball in 2019 if nothing improves.

That pick was part of the deal to free up cap space with Philly.

That should be a lesson to anyone on the price of cap room right at the start of free agency.

The actual swap is not too annoying though, but what it does do is keep you from rebuilding now. You've got no incentive to do so. The hand is forced.

Well you wanna hope it's top 10 this year then right? Philly surely won't have a very good pick so even a swap wouldn't be bad. This draft looks to be at least 8-10 deep with good players, about half of them point guards.

I'd trade Cousins unless you think he will sign his next contract their for picks and players, hope to get a top 10 pick and a good pick the following year and by then guys like WCS, Skal, Papa (or at least one of the latter two), Richardson, etc and those picks and any players in a Cousins trade would be a pretty good start.

[blind prophet]

When you look at the Kings draft and signings as two completely different entities the Kings offseason makes more sense I think. The draft was about recouping some young talent to build with in case the Kings end up a little light in terms of draft picks moving forward and they have to rebuild. Papagiannis is an upside pick with serious bust potential, Malachi Richardson was a Cousins pick as they had been working out together in Vegas pre-draft, and after that may be the real goods with Skal Labissiere and Bogdan Bogdanovic coming out of the draft for the Kings.

The signings were fitting role players and another Cuz demand with Matt Barnes. Tolliver and Temple bring defense, shooting, and a good locker room presence. Afflalo on his worst day is a better scorer than anyone the Kings had at SG last year and I'm eager to see if Joerger puts him in the post more.

There are still questions though because will Gay be there at the start of the season? And if he isn't how much does that hurt the Kings talent wise? The Kings have to be careful in moving him because I don't think they can assume they have enough talent without him.

We've got Ben, the room exception and possibly Kosta if needed to get a pg. It's not likely going to be a stellar return however.

Richardson was a great pick if you ask me. Guy has some serious swagger and extreme range. Yeah you can wonder about his shot selection but give me a fella you have to reign in who has legit scoring ability over someone you're not sure if it can translate....See Stauskas and Jimmer here in our recent history. His size great and his athleticism good, with our coaching staff he should be playing decent to good defense in a year or two.

We don't need to move Rudy either. It may be better offering him an early player option and big bucks next season. Something tells me he'll take the best fiscal deal for himself regardless unless it turns out to be a complete nightmare here.

Skal and Papa are expected to develop, that's fine for now.

We should see a good improvement with our defense with the vets added, and poor mans competence at least from Affalo at SG, that's all huge. Nothing catastrophic on spending in multi year deals.

But we need to do something at pg man. It's just not acceptable right now.

[blind prophet]

Well you wanna hope it's top 10 this year then right? Philly surely won't have a very good pick so even a swap wouldn't be bad. This draft looks to be at least 8-10 deep with good players, about half of them point guards.

I'd trade Cousins unless you think he will sign his next contract their for picks and players, hope to get a top 10 pick and a good pick the following year and by then guys like WCS, Skal, Papa (or at least one of the latter two), Richardson, etc and those picks and any players in a Cousins trade would be a pretty good start.

Nah were going to sink or sail with him for now.

Next season is where it will get interesting. And like I mentioned earlier, some potential trouble with the 2019 out. So there is no relief, no ideal wisdom, no "proper" move if you ask me.

Quite frustrating.

[bondom34]

tl/dr: This offseason was about stabilizing the image and setting up for next offseason's moves.

This is a great summary line of my feelings as well. Just wanted to say that, great point.

[c3j3h]

Lol. I'm not reading because I know that might be the majority position and my nerves can't take a thread of it. Regular season starts soon though, proof will be in pudding.

So you refuse to read the offseason grades because of the disrespect to Collison (which exists nowhere in the body of the review, any of them, so far as I can see). In fact, Bondom34 and I were relatively complimentary of the offseason overall.

You're not arguing with HartfordWhalers, you're arguing with a Pete D'Alessandro-shaped strawman wearing a "Hinkie Died for our Sins" T-shirt.

Gotta know what you're getting into here. It isn't worth your time

[c3j3h]

The room exception is still there.

If we can't pull off a trade, may as well take a buy low gamble on someone like Lawson, if he'll take it.

But without doing anything else, we are in deep dodo man. I seriously think we could be under 30 wins even if healthy if not. The need is that great.

If for some reason they decide to trade Cousins, and I've told everyone proposing trades for him on the Suns forum for a couple years they won't trade him, and if they ever do, it will at the EARLIEST be at the trade deadline in his 2nd to last season under contract, and maybe as late as the following trade deadline.

BUT, if there was a season to bottom out, and you need a PG, there is some PREMIER talent at the PG spot. I don't think Collison is bad, and he can be a pretty good starter, but I wouldn't want to make him the cornerstone PG of the future. IF they decide to trade Cousins and can get a bunch of picks and a couple young players and draft a premier PG next draft, that might make their future a little more exciting.

This is the most excited I've been as a Suns fan since 2010 and we're gonna suck. But at least we finally have a handful of young players and have our own pick next year and our's and Miami's the following year so I'm excited to watch us grow as a young team. I feel I am much more vested in a team when I watch guys we drafted or maybe traded for in their first year become cornerstones of the team because I watched them grow and get better than trading for good players later. Sure I liked Barkley, Kidd, Manning, Hill, McDyess, Chambers and Penny but not nearly to the level of guys like KJ, Amare, Marion, Hornacek, Majerle and Nash (we drafted him).

I guess I kind of got off topic there. It's just too bad the Kings have been on such a long downturn because they were my favorite team to watch in 2002. My heart sank when Horry knocked down a game winning 3 off a blocked shot in game 4 against the Lakers in which they would have gone up 3-1 and then ended up losing game 7 against the Lakers (in OT I believe) and then in 2003 I felt it was their year and Webber breaks his leg in a series. They still even knocked out the Mavs without him. But I'm sure you know all this.

I guess the Suns have been on the same path after their failed attempt at a run a few years later, missing the playoffs for six years.

What makes this tough to chew on is the future outgoing picks, or potential swap.

You are forced to try and win now, which is fine, but if a "miracle" asset deal was offered its a danged if you do or don't sort of feeling.

So basically all in on Cousins.

2019 unprotected out.

It leads to an apathetic outlook.

It wasn't too long ago when we had Tyreke, Thomas, Cousins all here and you could sense/feel like something was on the verge of happening.

They're not forced to compete right now. Rudy Gay and Darren Collison have value and are on expiring contracts (basically). They have Ben McLemore. They have DeMarcus Cousins. They can trade all of those guys, blow up the roster, and acquire enough picks in return (particularly for Boogie) to make up for the 2019 1st we owe Philly and then some. Plus they would keep the 2017 1st and simply have to fade a pick swap with Philly. But, if they get the Brooklyn pick from Boston in return for Boogie, that pick could still win the lottery anyway.

It's definitely possible to rebuild right away and not have to worry much about that one pick we are already going to lose anyway.

[KF10]

Given what they did this off-season, it's clear that they are pushing for the last remaining playoff seeds (7th/8th).

The problem is, everything needs to go picture perfect for the Kings to simply contend for the 7th or 8th seed, imo.

As a fan, I want to see the Kings go out and shock the world but most likely, they will crash and burn and settle for another low/mid-30s season.

[Dan Z]

The Kings also got Bogdan Bogdanavic in the trade with Phoenix. Bogdan is suppose to be good, but who knows if/when he'll come over..?
http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2016/6/23/12020672/sacramento-kings-trade-8th-pick-to-phoenix-for-bogdan-bogdanovic-and

[brackdan70]

Once again...seems like they could be a decent team but will end up in the late lotto again.

[bpcox05]

If for some reason they decide to trade Cousins, and I've told everyone proposing trades for him on the Suns forum for a couple years they won't trade him, and if they ever do, it will at the EARLIEST be at the trade deadline in his 2nd to last season under contract, and maybe as late as the following trade deadline.

BUT, if there was a season to bottom out, and you need a PG, there is some PREMIER talent at the PG spot. I don't think Collison is bad, and he can be a pretty good starter, but I wouldn't want to make him the cornerstone PG of the future. IF they decide to trade Cousins and can get a bunch of picks and a couple young players and draft a premier PG next draft, that might make their future a little more exciting.

This is the most excited I've been as a Suns fan since 2010 and we're gonna suck. But at least we finally have a handful of young players and have our own pick next year and our's and Miami's the following year so I'm excited to watch us grow as a young team. I feel I am much more vested in a team when I watch guys we drafted or maybe traded for in their first year become cornerstones of the team because I watched them grow and get better than trading for good players later. Sure I liked Barkley, Kidd, Manning, Hill, McDyess, Chambers and Penny but not nearly to the level of guys like KJ, Amare, Marion, Hornacek, Majerle and Nash (we drafted him).

I guess I kind of got off topic there. It's just too bad the Kings have been on such a long downturn because they were my favorite team to watch in 2002. My heart sank when Horry knocked down a game winning 3 off a blocked shot in game 4 against the Lakers in which they would have gone up 3-1 and then ended up losing game 7 against the Lakers (in OT I believe) and then in 2003 I felt it was their year and Webber breaks his leg in a series. They still even knocked out the Mavs without him. But I'm sure you know all this.

I guess the Suns have been on the same path after their failed attempt at a run a few years later, missing the playoffs for six years.

What makes this tough to chew on is the future outgoing picks, or potential swap.

You are forced to try and win now, which is fine, but if a "miracle" asset deal was offered its a danged if you do or don't sort of feeling.

So basically all in on Cousins.

2019 unprotected out.

It leads to an apathetic outlook.

It wasn't too long ago when we had Tyreke, Thomas, Cousins all here and you could sense/feel like something was on the verge of happening.

They're not forced to compete right now. Rudy Gay and Darren Collison have value and are on expiring contracts (basically). They have Ben McLemore. They have DeMarcus Cousins. They can trade all of those guys, blow up the roster, and acquire enough picks in return (particularly for Boogie) to make up for the 2019 1st we owe Philly and then some. Plus they would keep the 2017 1st and simply have to fade a pick swap with Philly. But, if they get the Brooklyn pick from Boston in return for Boogie, that pick could still win the lottery anyway.

It's definitely possible to rebuild right away and not have to worry much about that one pick we are already going to lose anyway.

I agree that a rebuild isn't completely lost because of the trades we have made.

Having said that, you don't trade Cousins and go into a rebuild until you have legitimately TRIED to win as a franchise.

There hasn't been 1 year since Cousins has come into the league in which all of the following have lined up:

1. Stability in the FO
2. A quality coach that will play to the team's strengths
3. Quality players who complement Cousins' skillset

You can't name 1 year that all 3 of those things have happened. Isn't that pretty depressing to think about? What kind of an incompetent franchise fails do the three simplest things you need to do when you have a star player? I'd challenge anyone to find another star who went through the first 6 years of his career without having all 3 criteria met at least one time.

The Kings have failed and failed miserably, but since Cousins is out there playing the games, he gets the blame.

This year, I finally think the Kings have done it. We have a stable FO who has openly backed Cousins on numerous occasions and is on his side. We have a solid coach who has a lot of the same characteristics Michael Malone had (and Cousins absolutely loved & respected Malone). And we have some quality players around Cousins that complement his skillset.

Can we just wait to witness THE FIRST season where the Kings & Cousins actually have a chance to get back on track? Then we can make some decisions around if Cousins isn't the guy we think he is or we don't have what it takes to be good.

But again, you DO NOT give up a player of Cousins caliber without trying at least one time to make it work. Especially if you are a small market team and especially if you have the reputation the Sacramento Kings have right now.

[Kings2013]

Slava - The owners tempo pace is unsubstantiated and there is no evidence of its current role. Karl was not a fit, for many reasons other than the organization, and one of the main reasons was pace didn't fit our personnel. Hence Joerger. The team will be trying a more half court look off Cousins on the block with shooting around him, hence why Collison fits as a off ball, spacing guard. Skal will need to gain muscle to play PF, there is zero center to him

HW - The team is trying to establish a winning culture now. So question marks with upside like Waiters and others with upside but not current productivity might not be as beneficial when Cousins question is at stake now. Vlade isn't overly worried about who will be on target with his prime when he might not be here. The culture will change in the next couple of years when his decision is made. Jeff Green, when we are trying to move Gay now due to glut (Casspi/Barnes)

For me I think the coaching change is paramount. Karl was disliked and not a fit and Joerger might be the change needed. The FA has to be taken with the consideration of being the leagues outpost. Afflalo replacing McLemore, who was maybe the worst SG in the league. I would have liked to keep Curry/Acy at their deals. Skal IMO has as much upside as Chriss, so you know where I stand there. There is a hole at backup PG but this will be an active couple of weeks.

[bwgood77]

What makes this tough to chew on is the future outgoing picks, or potential swap.

You are forced to try and win now, which is fine, but if a "miracle" asset deal was offered its a danged if you do or don't sort of feeling.

So basically all in on Cousins.

2019 unprotected out.

It leads to an apathetic outlook.

It wasn't too long ago when we had Tyreke, Thomas, Cousins all here and you could sense/feel like something was on the verge of happening.

They're not forced to compete right now. Rudy Gay and Darren Collison have value and are on expiring contracts (basically). They have Ben McLemore. They have DeMarcus Cousins. They can trade all of those guys, blow up the roster, and acquire enough picks in return (particularly for Boogie) to make up for the 2019 1st we owe Philly and then some. Plus they would keep the 2017 1st and simply have to fade a pick swap with Philly. But, if they get the Brooklyn pick from Boston in return for Boogie, that pick could still win the lottery anyway.

It's definitely possible to rebuild right away and not have to worry much about that one pick we are already going to lose anyway.

I agree that a rebuild isn't completely lost because of the trades we have made.

Having said that, you don't trade Cousins and go into a rebuild until you have legitimately TRIED to win as a franchise.

There hasn't been 1 year since Cousins has come into the league in which all of the following have lined up:

1. Stability in the FO
2. A quality coach that will play to the team's strengths
3. Quality players who complement Cousins' skillset

You can't name 1 year that all 3 of those things have happened. Isn't that pretty depressing to think about? What kind of an incompetent franchise fails do the three simplest things you need to do when you have a star player? I'd challenge anyone to find another star who went through the first 6 years of his career without having all 3 criteria met at least one time.

The Kings have failed and failed miserably, but since Cousins is out there playing the games, he gets the blame.

This year, I finally think the Kings have done it. We have a stable FO who has openly backed Cousins on numerous occasions and is on his side. We have a solid coach who has a lot of the same characteristics Michael Malone had (and Cousins absolutely loved & respected Malone). And we have some quality players around Cousins that complement his skillset.

Can we just wait to witness THE FIRST season where the Kings & Cousins actually have a chance to get back on track? Then we can make some decisions around if Cousins isn't the guy we think he is or we don't have what it takes to be good.

But again, you DO NOT give up a player of Cousins caliber without trying at least one time to make it work. Especially if you are a small market team and especially if you have the reputation the Sacramento Kings have right now.

I wholeheartedly agree with your take, thinking about how I would feel if I was a Kings fan. They HAVE to see what they can do and how the season progresses. If it is looking good halfway through and Cousins is happy, I wouldn't trade him. If it is looking bad, I'd listen to offers but that's it. I still wouldn't trade him unless I was blown away with an offer. THEN, I think next offseason you can still PROBABLY draft a good PG if you want one because there apparently are like 10 good PGs in the draft. If he is happy and you add a PG in free agency and/or the draft, and the other young guys develop and it seems like he doesn't want out, then keep him the next year and hope he doesn't pull a Durant.

[bpcox05]

Current Depth Chart: (as usual this is a rough draft taken from bbinsiders)
PG: Darren Collison
SG: Arron Afflalo, Garrett Temple, Ben McLemore, Lamar Patterson, Malachi Richardson
SF: Rudy Gay, Matt Barnes
PF: DeMarcus Cousins, Omri Casspi, Anthony Tolliver, Skal Labissiere
C: Willie Cauley-Stein, Kosta Koufos, Georgios Papagiannis

I know this is BBInsiders depth chart, but I'd like to make my own recommendation...

Trade McLemore for D. Harris
Sign M. Chalmers to room exception

PG - Collison (30 min) / Harris (18 min) / Chalmers
SG - Temple (20 min) / Afflalo (28 min) / Richardson
SF - Gay (34 min) / Casspi (10 min) / Temple (4 min) / Barnes
PF - Cauley-Stein (26 min) / Casspi (18 min) / Cousins (4 min) / Tolliver / Labissiere
C - Cousins (32 min) / Koufos (16 min) / Papagiannis

Cousins - 36 min
Gay - 34 min
Collison - 30 min
Afflalo - 28 min
Casspi - 28 min
Cauley-Stein - 26 min
Temple - 24 min
Harris - 18 min
Koufos - 16 min


And yes, I would 100% start Temple over Afflalo. Afflalo would arguably be the worst defender in a Collison/Afflalo/Gay/Cauley-Stein/Cousins lineup, and with Cousins, Gay, & Collison, we don't need his scoring in the first unit. Moving him to the bench gives us 2 scorers off the bench (Afflalo & Casspi) which should help balance out our rotations. Temple's ability to be a plus defender & ability to hide defensive liabilities by guarding 1-3 will be much more useful in the starting lineup. Not to mention he can handle the ball a bit, make the smart play, and find the open man. Lastly, he shoots 36% on C&S 3s while shooting 43% from the right corner the last 2 years (Cousins likes to work on the left side either in the high or low post which would make for a great complement).

Collison / McLemore / Gay / Thompson / Cousins was one of the most effective lineups in the league in 2014-15. So in this starting lineup, we would be replacing Thompson with Cauley-Stein (who we hope is going to be at least 2X the player Thompson was) and McLemore with Temple. McLemore only shot 1% better from 3 that year vs. what Temple did last year. Add to the fact that Temple is a much better defender, ball handler, passer, decision maker, & has the ability to guard 3 positions and you start to see a lineup that not only resembles that old lineup but one that could surpass it.

[bpcox05]

They're not forced to compete right now. Rudy Gay and Darren Collison have value and are on expiring contracts (basically). They have Ben McLemore. They have DeMarcus Cousins. They can trade all of those guys, blow up the roster, and acquire enough picks in return (particularly for Boogie) to make up for the 2019 1st we owe Philly and then some. Plus they would keep the 2017 1st and simply have to fade a pick swap with Philly. But, if they get the Brooklyn pick from Boston in return for Boogie, that pick could still win the lottery anyway.

It's definitely possible to rebuild right away and not have to worry much about that one pick we are already going to lose anyway.

I agree that a rebuild isn't completely lost because of the trades we have made.

Having said that, you don't trade Cousins and go into a rebuild until you have legitimately TRIED to win as a franchise.

There hasn't been 1 year since Cousins has come into the league in which all of the following have lined up:

1. Stability in the FO
2. A quality coach that will play to the team's strengths
3. Quality players who complement Cousins' skillset

You can't name 1 year that all 3 of those things have happened. Isn't that pretty depressing to think about? What kind of an incompetent franchise fails do the three simplest things you need to do when you have a star player? I'd challenge anyone to find another star who went through the first 6 years of his career without having all 3 criteria met at least one time.

The Kings have failed and failed miserably, but since Cousins is out there playing the games, he gets the blame.

This year, I finally think the Kings have done it. We have a stable FO who has openly backed Cousins on numerous occasions and is on his side. We have a solid coach who has a lot of the same characteristics Michael Malone had (and Cousins absolutely loved & respected Malone). And we have some quality players around Cousins that complement his skillset.

Can we just wait to witness THE FIRST season where the Kings & Cousins actually have a chance to get back on track? Then we can make some decisions around if Cousins isn't the guy we think he is or we don't have what it takes to be good.

But again, you DO NOT give up a player of Cousins caliber without trying at least one time to make it work. Especially if you are a small market team and especially if you have the reputation the Sacramento Kings have right now.

I wholeheartedly agree with your take, thinking about how I would feel if I was a Kings fan. They HAVE to see what they can do and how the season progresses. If it is looking good halfway through and Cousins is happy, I wouldn't trade him. If it is looking bad, I'd listen to offers but that's it. I still wouldn't trade him unless I was blown away with an offer. THEN, I think next offseason you can still PROBABLY draft a good PG if you want one because there apparently are like 10 good PGs in the draft. If he is happy and you add a PG in free agency and/or the draft, and the other young guys develop and it seems like he doesn't want out, then keep him the next year and hope he doesn't pull a Durant.

Totally agree. If it's not working mid season, sure, I think it's time to start listening to offers (as painful as it might be), and you're right about the PG situation. There are many PGs projected to go high in next year's draft and there are a plethora of good PGs in free agency.

[LightTheBeam]

And do we know yet what the vision of this team is?

And that's what I don't like about the Kings' offseason, there is no general goal or direction. At least not one that comes at first glance. The Kings needed to come to a relative conclusion this offseason whether or not they wanted to build around DMC, and the decision to retain him seemed like their choice given their lack of move. But instead of supporting them with quality veteran players, they opted to grab another center prospect with their first pick and middling FA talents. Neither of those moves seem like moves to appease DMC's desire to win.

I'd argue that the biggest thing the Kings need to do at this point is stabilize their public image, both in the eyes of the general public and around the league. We talk about FA signings as if they occur in a vacuum, but it may well be that Divac talked to other guys and Temple/Tolliver/Barnes et al were the guys who wanted to come.

Perception's likely part of the reason the contracts are a little higher than is ideal, too. That's part of the reason I didn't ding them too badly for overpaying. Vlade is working from behind.

They need guys who want to be there, they need guys who want to win, they need guys who have some level of character, and even if the talent's not entirely there I think they took some positive steps down that path.

It's nice to hear an outside fan see what some of us do. It's not like guys were banging down the door to come here. We needed solid vets who could change the culture and we did that. Rondo had his problems, there were talks belly didn't like it here, they are both gone.

Also not to worried about our perceived glut up front. I expect Koufos to be involved in a deal by the deadline and I don't want Tolliver playing huge minutes. Skal and Papa likely don't play much this year and Koufos and Tolliver are pretty good backups for 15-20mpg behind Cousins/WCS. Our small forward position looks good with Gay/Casspi/Barnes which should offer us up some flexibility (curious if they end up playing all 3 at times if Gay stays). We definitely need another pg and I'd be very happy with something small like Mclemore for Mack.

Cousins/Koufos/Papa
WCS/Tolliver/Skal
Gay/Casspi/Barnes
Afflalo/Temple/Richardson
Collison/Mack/Isiah Cousins

I'd be pretty happy with that going into the season. We can always move Koufos and/or Gay later for a bigger pg upgrade if one becomes available.

I understand some are concerned about going in a direction whether that's win now or rebuild, but I like how vlade didn't mortgage the future with long term contracts and also managed to bring in multiple youth pieces. We're very excited about Bogdan coming next year and judging off Cousins instagram so is he.

Barnes>>James Anderson
Tolliver>Acy (as a stretch 4)
Afflalo>>>Belinelli
Air>Rondo
Joerger>>>>Karl

None or are players are old were we should expect a dip in production. Cousins and WCS will only get better. So the way I see it we upgraded the team in the now and brought in Bogdan/Papa/Skal/Richardson for the future.

[Slava]

Slava - The owners tempo pace is unsubstantiated and there is no evidence of its current role. Karl was not a fit, for many reasons other than the organization, and one of the main reasons was pace didn't fit our personnel. Hence Joerger. The team will be trying a more half court look off Cousins on the block with shooting around him, hence why Collison fits as a off ball, spacing guard. Skal will need to gain muscle to play PF, there is zero center to him

I'm more or less going by what I read when they signed Karl and more recently by Lowe after the Joerger hiring

Kings owner Vivek Ranadivé wants to play fast, but it seemed that the Kings were hurtling out of control last season -- running for the sake of running, while sacrificing Cousins' power game and their own already dismal transition defense.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/kings-made-call-dave-joerger/story?id=38995322