Minnesota early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Slava/Klomp)

[pelifan]

Spoiler:

if u want to misrepresent that as my gospel draft position that's on you.

My Ainge/Bender comment was made in jest, I wanted Danny to pick Bender so there was no chance we'd pick him.

Since you are interested in my thoughts, I will say I had Dunn as the clear cut third pick in the draft. I had totally written off him being available at pick five.

Thats crazy. Cause thats the opposite of what the guy with your exact same RealGM account spent the entire pre-draft time posting.

Less than 2 weeks before the draft:

Murray is my first choice.

viewtopic.php?p=47788383#p47788383

Here is 2 days before the draft:

If available, who's your favorite at #5?
Dragan Bender 43 47%
Kris Dunn 7 8%
Buddy Hield 13 14%
Jamal Murray 24 26%

Murray or Buddy.

viewtopic.php?p=47973085#p47973085

Dunn was an option, but you didn't pick him. Instead just like every other post you made from May until after Dunn was picked, you talked about wanting Murray.

Who coincidentally you kept posting about on the draft board that week:

Does anyone else see similarities in his game with OJ Mayo?

If the Wolves draft him at five I may change my screen name to "liljamalmurray."

And earlier:

Jamal Murray is going to struggle in the league. And it's a shame because he seems like a good kid. I hope his shooting ability off screens helps him get a long career as a bench shooter that can put it on the floor a little.

Admit it Dell, you would pick him if he is available.

While skipping all Dunn threads entirely, almost like you wanted Murray as your comments said.

Here is draft day:

Murray or Buddy.

Like Davis, Sabonis or korkmaz if we trade down.

viewtopic.php?p=48015027#p48015027

Which follows since you made it clear you were big on Murray from the get go with all your posts. Even after the draft, you couldn;t get fully away from Murray:

But now, suddenly the story is different. Whether it is unintentional selective memory or something a lot worse, I'm really not interested in the explanation for your sudden about face. But your posts all tell the tale pretty clearly of what you thought pre-draft.

And whether you are now hiding your initial preference or not, it is pretty clear the Wolves board was very split between Dunn/Murray/Hield in their draft thread with tons of posts going back and forth between all the none of the players clearcut above the other or widespread favorites as originally suggested here. Both in the above wolves board were Dunn falls to 6th, the separate Wolves board were he also falls to 6th (viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1454869) and the general discussion were a large number of posters favored Hield and Murray over him -- viewtopic.php?p=47746017#p47746017

oh my. The least you could do is send flowers to the family and offer to pay for the funeral services after a post like that.

[GopherIt!]

Thats crazy. Cause thats the opposite of what the guy with your exact same RealGM account spent the entire pre-draft time posting.

Dunn was an option, but you didn't pick him. Instead just like every other post you made from May until after Dunn was picked, you talked about wanting Murray.

While skipping all Dunn threads entirely, almost like you wanted Murray as your comments said.

Which follows since you made it clear you were big on Murray from the get go with all your posts. Even after the draft, you couldn;t get fully away from Murray:

But now, suddenly the story is different. Whether it is unintentional selective memory or something a lot worse, I'm really not interested in the explanation for your sudden about face. But your posts all tell the tale pretty clearly of what you thought pre-draft.

And whether you are now hiding your initial preference or not, it is pretty clear the Wolves board was very split between Dunn/Murray/Hield in their draft thread with tons of posts going back and forth between all the none of the players clearcut above the other or widespread favorites as originally suggested here. Both in the above wolves board were Dunn falls to 6th, the separate Wolves board were he also falls to 6th (viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1454869) and the general discussion were a large number of posters favored Hield and Murray over him -- viewtopic.php?p=47746017#p47746017

First, don't appreciate you personally attacking me. Calling me crazy, assuming I am lying and going out of your way to turn this conversation into a personal bash fest was a very rude thing to do.

You quoted a bunch of times where I wanted Murray for Minny at five. That's great. Problem. That has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. The discuss is about Dunn being third best player in the draft. You are implying that my interest in Murray for Minny means I would rather draft Murray than Dunn with the Wolvs pick. That does not follow logically.

Let me explain it like this, I liked Simmons and Ingram too. If I talked about Ingram and Simmons it would look foolish, yes? Why? Because Simmons and Ingram have no shot at being Timberwolves. The same reasoning applied to Dunn. As I have already very clearly stated, I assumed Dunn would be long gone before the Wolves pick. Thus logic dictates focusing on the next group of players available.

There is no switcharo, crazy talk, lying, dishonesty, etc etc.

[HartfordWhalers]

assuming I am lying and going out of your way to turn this conversation into a personal bash fest was a very rude thing to do.

You quoted a bunch of times where I wanted Murray for Minny at five. That's great. Problem. That has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. The discuss is about Dunn being third best player in the draft. You are implying that my interest in Murray for Minny means I would rather draft Murray than Dunn with the Wolvs pick. That does not follow logically.

See, the problem is you now aren't being honest.

Again, since you magically picked these type of quotes to cut out and not respond to, I will present them again:

Here is 2 days before the draft:

If available, who's your favorite at #5?
Dragan Bender 43 47%
Kris Dunn 7 8%
Buddy Hield 13 14%
Jamal Murray 24 26%

Murray or Buddy.

viewtopic.php?p=47973085#p47973085

Dunn was an option, but you didn't pick him. Instead just like every other post you made from May until after Dunn was picked, you talked about wanting Murray. You posted bout wanting Murray in topics when the discussion was actively Murray or Dunn or Hield, who do you want to be there.

There is no switcharo, crazy talk, lying, dishonesty, etc etc.

The only way this is true, is if you literally had no idea what the topics were in any of the previous discussions. Which might be better than not having integrity now on this issue, but not by a lot.

The discuss is about Dunn being third best player in the draft.

Yep, and you joined that discussion to insist it was true and 'clear cut', despite in two separate Wolves fans boards Dunn falling to 6th, and a personal history of arguing for 2 other prospects over him. It was an absurd stance to take, and one filled with hypocrisy. People pointing out the hollowness of your words after you inject them into the discussion is not going out of the way to bash you.

[GopherIt!]

assuming I am lying and going out of your way to turn this conversation into a personal bash fest was a very rude thing to do.

You quoted a bunch of times where I wanted Murray for Minny at five. That's great. Problem. That has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. The discuss is about Dunn being third best player in the draft. You are implying that my interest in Murray for Minny means I would rather draft Murray than Dunn with the Wolvs pick. That does not follow logically.

See, the problem is you now aren't being honest.

Again, since you magically picked these type of quotes to cut out and not respond to, I will present them again:

No magic Hartford. You obsess over one tree and ignore the forest. Forest: I ignored Simmons, Ingram and eventually Dunn because it was apparent none of those players would be available. Its that simple.

The only way this is true, is if you literally had no idea what the topics were in any of the previous discussions. Which might be better than not having integrity now on this issue, but not by a lot.

That is another personal attack. Do not talk to me that way again.

The discuss is about Dunn being third best player in the draft.

Yep, and you joined that discussion to insist it was true and 'clear cut', despite in two separate Wolves fans boards Dunn falling to 6th, and a personal history of arguing for 2 other prospects over him. It was an absurd stance to take, and one filled with hypocrisy. People pointing out the hollowness of your words after you inject them into the discussion is not going out of the way to bash you.

You have intentionally misconstrued my words to fit your personal agenda. You started by taking my lottery day comment out of time and its context to make it look like that my final mock had Dunn as the 8th best player in the draft. Twenty quotes of me liking Murray at pick five does not affect Dunn being the third best player in the draft. It does not follow

Where did you come up with the notion I argued for 2 other prospects over Dunn?

I do not have a personal history for arguing for Simmons and Ingram over Murray/Hield either. By your reasoning I valued Murray over Simmons and Ingram too. Its faulty logic. There is nothing hollow, you are making false assumptions and using those false assumptions to buttress your argument.













I did not argue for two prospects over him. That is false.

[HartfordWhalers]

Again, since you magically picked these type of quotes to cut out and not respond to, I will present them again:

Here is 2 days before the draft:

If available, who's your favorite at #5?
Dragan Bender 43 47%
Kris Dunn 7 8%
Buddy Hield 13 14%
Jamal Murray 24 26%

Murray or Buddy.

viewtopic.php?p=47973085#p47973085

Funny, I've said this twice and every time it gets manually cut out of the reply as if it never happened. Only it did (and elsewhere as cited). Why the lack of honesty on this?

The full topic could not have been more clearly spelled out:

A very straightforward question: considering the Wolves current situation, assuming no moves are made before or during the draft and regardless of what comes next during the free agency, who would you choose?

I'm not including Ingram and Simmons in the poll because at this point it would be a huge surprise to see any of them fall to number 3, -and obviously none is going to make it to the 5th spot-, but other than that everyone is on the table, no matter who we think will be picked at the 3rd and 4th spots.

Let's see who's the real favorite for the Wolves fan base with just a few days to go.

The page -- like the others linked -- has people debating Murray or Dunn or Bender or Hield.

At the end of the day as a poster, you get to pick how much integrity you post with. Claiming things like "You have intentionally misconstrued my words to fit your personal agenda." and that Dunn was excluded from all of these discussions shows either an utter failure to understand what you are saying in multiple topics or absolutely no integrity.

[TKainZero]

Other than Klomp being a little optimistic, this is the closest we might have to consensus on win/loss predictions. 1 - 37 and 3 - 38s.

I would have been 38 most likely as well, but I went ahead and balanced my wins for all the teams to get to 1230. I had to shave 8 wins off teams already reviewed and get stingy with the remaining ones:

Spoiler:

Team | New | Old
Atlanta 40 42
Charlotte 46 47
San Antonio 53 54
Dallas 47 48
Memphis 46 47
Golden State 67 69
LA Clippers 58 60
-----------------
Sacramento 30 28

Basically mean reverting my high win predictions. And then Sacramento got 2 wins back as part of mean reversion and the fact that Lawson offers something at backup pg, and having that backstop (even an unreliable one) was just such a glaring hole it has to help the short term win prediction if not the long term outlook.


Through the 20 teams posted, here are the win totals predicted by the 4 of us:
HW: 850 (since lowered to 842)
bondom34: 858
Slava: 870
Guest*: 905
dbrandon: 925

Which leads me to conclude that dbrandon is running for political office this Fall. No home fan can out sunshine his predictions.

*(Guest reviewers are still missing from Memphis, so I took our average Memphis prediction and add it in to standardize off the same 19)

I was looking forward to the end to see which reviewers were going to be off on their win-loss numbers

[GopherIt!]

Again, since you magically picked these type of quotes to cut out and not respond to, I will present them again:

Here is 2 days before the draft:

If available, who's your favorite at #5?
Dragan Bender 43 47%
Kris Dunn 7 8%
Buddy Hield 13 14%
Jamal Murray 24 26%

Murray or Buddy.

viewtopic.php?p=47973085#p47973085

Funny, I've said this twice and every time it gets manually cut out of the reply as if it never happened. Only it did (and elsewhere as cited). Why the lack of honesty on this?

The full topic could not have been more clearly spelled out:

A very straightforward question: considering the Wolves current situation, assuming no moves are made before or during the draft and regardless of what comes next during the free agency, who would you choose?

I'm not including Ingram and Simmons in the poll because at this point it would be a huge surprise to see any of them fall to number 3, -and obviously none is going to make it to the 5th spot-, but other than that everyone is on the table, no matter who we think will be picked at the 3rd and 4th spots.

Let's see who's the real favorite for the Wolves fan base with just a few days to go.

The page -- like the others linked -- has people debating Murray or Dunn or Bender or Hield.

At the end of the day as a poster, you get to pick how much integrity you post with. Claiming things like "You have intentionally misconstrued my words to fit your personal agenda." and that Dunn was excluded from all of these discussions shows either an utter failure to understand what you are saying in multiple topics or absolutely no integrity.

When you go a near psychopath rant and quote me 20 times dont get mad I don't respond to each quote individually.

My response did include that poll, you just missed it. Tree - Forest comment. You are getting all worked up over one post (tree) and ignoring the forest. My original comment regarding Dunn was NOT about my own personal view. (Nor was it about the forum.) My comment was specifically speaking about the league. What league people and writers were saying. Dunn rocketed up the chart in the days leading upto the draft. When teams were talking about Boston's very available #3 pick, it was in most cases to obtain Dunn. This was true even during the draft up until Ainge made the pick.

If you want to talk about integrity start with yourself. Stop insulting my intelligence and try to understand what I am saying before you go on a rant.

[HartfordWhalers]

When you go a near psychopath rant and quote me 20 times dont get mad I don't respond to each quote individually.

Ha. Sure I said the opposite of what I am saying now -- and did it 20 times -- but you are a psychopath for quoting it back to e and not pretending it never happened! What an absurd position from someone who cannot face up to what they said.

If you want to talk about integrity start with yourself. Stop insulting my intelligence and try to understand what I am saying before you go on a rant.

I directly quoted you a bunch. I know what you said. You said Murray (or Hield) was a better pick even including Dunn for the Twolves. Now you claim that Dunn was clear cut better player and thus better pick. The two are in opposition and have been from the start.

[Klomp]

Here is 2 days before the draft:

If available, who's your favorite at #5?
Dragan Bender 43 47%
Kris Dunn 7 8%
Buddy Hield 13 14%
Jamal Murray 24 26%

Murray or Buddy.

viewtopic.php?p=47973085#p47973085

Dunn was an option, but you didn't pick him. Instead just like every other post you made from May until after Dunn was picked, you talked about wanting Murray. You posted bout wanting Murray in topics when the discussion was actively Murray or Dunn or Hield, who do you want to be there.

I can't speak to GI's intentions or desires on draft night. What I can say is that a majority of MIN posters wanted either Bender or one of the SGs because those were perceived as the best fits for the two glaring needs.

Personally, I was pretty heavily on the Dunn bandwagon by the time the draft rolled around. While others saw his lack of shooting at the same position as our biggest non-shooter in the starting lineup, I saw his leadership, toughness and defensive potential. I would've been happy with any of them, but Dunn was the guard I wanted most.

Meanwhile, I was told he's too old, too injury-prone, only hyped because of a weak class, had poor numbers as a freshman, can't play off-ball, too similar to Rubio, etc.

Full disclosure: I didn't initially have him in my top 5, but the more I read, the more I fell in love. And I called Thibs' interest on May 12:

I have a gut feeling he'll love Dunn

[Klomp]

On page 1 is what I submitted as the team's current depth chart.

The team's depth could be viewed as a strength for the first time in a long time. For years the bench has been one of the weakest in the league, but I believe that's about to change. Part of what makes it so good is its versatility. We are now more capable of playing a number of different ways depending on the situation.

I think we have three set bench pieces locked into the nightly rotation: Shabazz Muhammad, Kris Dunn, Cole Aldrich. Beyond that depends on the situation. If we need shooting, you could see Nemanja Bjelica and Brandon Rush. If you need another facilitator, Tyus Jones. If you need another big man, Jordan Hill. If they're healthy, Kevin Garnett and Nikola Pekovic. If every other player and possible free agent has died, Adreian Payne. The situation will dictate who plays. That gives Tom Thibodeau a lot of versatility and a lot of injury insurance.

[Ferulci]

I really like Minny offseason : It seems like Thibs is letting the young core (Towns/Wiggins/Lavine/Dunn/Shabazz/Dieng) one year to figure out which positions and role they will play. You can project Towns as a 4 or a 5, Wiggins as a 2 or 3, Dunn as a 1/2.
The only downside is the lack of stretch 4 next to Towns. IMO they should have signed Jared Dudley (perfectly fits and great mentor) or Matt Barnes.

[Domejandro]

I really like Minny offseason : It seems like Thibs is letting the young core (Towns/Wiggins/Lavine/Dunn/Shabazz/Dieng) one year to figure out which positions and role they will play. You can project Towns as a 4 or a 5, Wiggins as a 2 or 3, Dunn as a 1/2.
The only downside is the lack of stretch 4 next to Towns. IMO they should have signed Jared Dudley (perfectly fits and great mentor) or Matt Barnes.

Possibly an underwhelming couple of names, but Gorgui Dieng has range out to the corner threes, and Nemanja Bjelica is a stretch-four.

[Colbinii]

I really like Minny offseason : It seems like Thibs is letting the young core (Towns/Wiggins/Lavine/Dunn/Shabazz/Dieng) one year to figure out which positions and role they will play. You can project Towns as a 4 or a 5, Wiggins as a 2 or 3, Dunn as a 1/2.
The only downside is the lack of stretch 4 next to Towns. IMO they should have signed Jared Dudley (perfectly fits and great mentor) or Matt Barnes.

Dieng is fabulous from mid range. He stretches the floor and added a 3 pt shot to his albeit shallow offensive arsenal.

[HartfordWhalers]

I really like Minny offseason : It seems like Thibs is letting the young core (Towns/Wiggins/Lavine/Dunn/Shabazz/Dieng) one year to figure out which positions and role they will play. You can project Towns as a 4 or a 5, Wiggins as a 2 or 3, Dunn as a 1/2.
The only downside is the lack of stretch 4 next to Towns. IMO they should have signed Jared Dudley (perfectly fits and great mentor) or Matt Barnes.

Possibly an underwhelming couple of names, but Gorgui Dieng has range out to the corner threes, and Nemanja Bjelica is a stretch-four.

And Dudley and Barnes do nothing in 2 years from now.

I get that teams like to have vet caretakers, and there is a place for them. But it is Dudley for 2 years while Bender and Chriss are filling in behind him, not Dudley to pair next to KAT while no one fills in behind Dudley.

So, if you think Dieng is not the option long term, you need to find a guy that might be.

Out of all the free agents this offseason, Sullinger and Terrence Jones were the closest to possible long term plays with upside and I'm not feeling like a massive chance was missed. Sullinger might have been interesting though. Course, that can be revisited next offseason (and TJones as well for that matter, although for jersey's that could get confusing).

[giberish]

I really like Minny offseason : It seems like Thibs is letting the young core (Towns/Wiggins/Lavine/Dunn/Shabazz/Dieng) one year to figure out which positions and role they will play. You can project Towns as a 4 or a 5, Wiggins as a 2 or 3, Dunn as a 1/2.
The only downside is the lack of stretch 4 next to Towns. IMO they should have signed Jared Dudley (perfectly fits and great mentor) or Matt Barnes.

Possibly an underwhelming couple of names, but Gorgui Dieng has range out to the corner threes, and Nemanja Bjelica is a stretch-four.

And Dudley and Barnes do nothing in 2 years from now.

I get that teams like to have vet caretakers, and there is a place for them. But it is Dudley for 2 years while Bender and Chriss are filling in behind him, not Dudley to pair next to KAT while no one fills in behind Dudley.

So, if you think Dieng is not the option long term, you need to find a guy that might be.

Out of all the free agents this offseason, Sullinger and Terrence Jones were the closest to possible long term plays with upside and I'm not feeling like a massive chance was missed. Sullinger might have been interesting though. Course, that can be revisited next offseason (and TJones as well for that matter, although for jersey's that could get confusing).

I'd argue for looking at Dorell Wright (or Jones in a 1 or 2 year deal) in place of signing Hill would have been a better choice for emergency depth. Minny has a bunch of center options but is thin at SF or stretch-PF options. Dudley (or even moreso Deng) would have taking too much money for too long while they decline to make sense (going into the summer I liked Deng for them, but at something like 3yr/$45-50M)

[GopherIt!]

When you go a near psychopath rant and quote me 20 times dont get mad I don't respond to each quote individually.

Ha. Sure I said the opposite of what I am saying now -- and did it 20 times -- but you are a psychopath for quoting it back to e and not pretending it never happened! What an absurd position from someone who cannot face up to what they said.

If you want to talk about integrity start with yourself. Stop insulting my intelligence and try to understand what I am saying before you go on a rant.

I directly quoted you a bunch. I know what you said. You said Murray (or Hield) was a better pick even including Dunn for the Twolves. Now you claim that Dunn was clear cut better player and thus better pick. The two are in opposition and have been from the start.

Ha. Sure I said the opposite of what I am saying now -- and did it 20 times -- but you are a psychopath for quoting it back to e and not pretending it never happened! What an absurd position from someone who cannot face up to what they said.

I directly quoted you a bunch. I know what you said. You said Murray (or Hield) was a better pick even including Dunn for the Twolves. Now you claim that Dunn was clear cut better player and thus better pick.

Sure, you directly quoted me out of context a bunch to say what you wanted to say.

You also need to stop taking one random poll as some definitive guide of my opinion. I never used the words I liked Murray/Hield over Dunn.

Why didn't you quote any of the times where I/we tempered my/our enthusiasm with caution? Murray will likely be a huge liability on defense and will have to be hidden. We've talked about this on our board repeatedly. He may cap out as a 6th man because of this. Landing a 6th man with the 5th pick in the draft is problematic. We talked about this on our board repeatedly. He overlaps Lavine in a lot of ways. We talked about this too.

Why didn't you quote any of the many, many times I have harped on the Wolves need for defense and two way players? Over the years, I have, in fact, harped on defense more than anything in analyzing prospects. Anyone who knows me knows this. I preached defense (along with two way play and outside shooting) long before it was fashionable. My Murray fandom needs to be understood in this context.

[Texas Chuck]

Why didn't you quote any of the many, many times I have harped on the Wolves need for defense and two way players? Over the years, I have, in fact, harped on defense more than anything in analyzing prospects. Anyone who knows me knows this. I preached defense (along with two way play and outside shooting) long before it was fashionable. My Murray fandom needs to be understood in this context.

A couple things here:

1. Since when has defense and outside shooting been out of fashion? I really don't understand this. The first NBA dynasty was built on defense....

2. I honestly couldn't care any less about this whole draft thing. You aren't the first and won't be the last guy to have held one opinion before the draft, have your team draft a player differently than who you hoped and then come around on the new guy. I don't even think it's automatically homer of you either. I mean it could be I suppose--and your stubborn refusal to acknowledge your own posts doesn't look great for you really---but it could be as simple as you have a vested interest in the Wolves and now that Dunn is the selection you went back and looked at him as a prospect far more in depth than any of the other guys and have discovered you really like him more now.

I mean we have Celtic fans doing the same thing right now with Brown. We have Thunder fans who are now much higher on Dipo than they were before the trade, and Magic fans much higher on Ibaka(and lower on Dipo, shocking right?). This isn't unique to you. The thing is this board has long had a culture of giving platforms for people to hold whatever opinions they want--while maintaining the idea that when you are wrong or when you change your mind significantly--that you own up to it. We "eat crow" if you will.

For instance I once posted that I thought Dallas would be better off at center with Chris Kaman and Elton Brand than Brooklyn with Brook Lopez. And this wasn't in 2006 either. Or I posted over and over and over that the Suns would have to eat Morris or add an asset to dump him. And they got a freaking lotto pick back for him. But I owned it. I took my lumps. I didn't pretend I didn't say it. I didn't try and justify it or claim I didn't really say what I said.

I know in this case you feel bad because another poster called you out on it. And you've kinda dug your heels in a bit. But you need not do that. This board doesn't care about that stuff. As long as you own it.

[Laimbeer]

Is Thibs that much of a coup? I heard a lot of negative and positive about the guy. Dunn was nice value and the free agent signings don't seem like anything special. B- seems plenty fair.

[jayjaysee]

For instance I once posted that I thought Dallas would be better off at center with Chris Kaman and Elton Brand than Brooklyn with Brook Lopez. .

I once said Dallas would be better with Michael Carter Williams than Deron Williams. And that was kind of yesterday.

Can someone tell me the consistency in reasoning of giving high marks of drafting Dunn at #5 vs not giving the Lakers high mark at drafting Ingram at #2? One can make an argument that in both cases, any GM could have taken Dunn at #5 and Ingram at #2 based on what was available.

Ingram was part of the two in the two player draft, the Lakers had the second pick.... Dunn was thought to be 3rd but could have fallen to 7th.

Spoiler:

And most feel Minnesota made the right choice out of the 3-4 players left to choose from, they could have gone for Chriss and hoped he developed into a great fit but the (expected) impact would have been delayed and the bust potential was a lot higher. They could have drafted Hield or Murray, ignoring Zach/Wiggins. Instead, they drafted the guy that fits their trio the best and offers the least (expected) bust potential. Given they already have, what most feel, can develop into the three best players on a contender (thanks to KAT) they needed to make a safe pick and fit with the team imo.

And many actually feel Dunn was the best available in general so there is that... I still have a thing for Murray honestly, but I don't like Murray more than Lavine or Wiggins so Dunn was the right choice for Minnesota. They also could have overpaid in a trade for Jimmy Butler. They had choices and in my opinion (and most others) made the best one.

LA had "draft Ingram" or?

[HartfordWhalers]

And most feel Minnesota made the right choice out of the 3-4 players left to choose from, they could have gone for Chriss and hoped he developed into a great fit but the (expected) impact would have been delayed and the bust potential was a lot higher. They could have drafted Hield or Murray, ignoring Zach/Wiggins. Instead, they drafted the guy that fits their trio the best and offers the least (expected) bust potential. Given they already have, what most feel, can develop into the three best players on a contender (thanks to KAT) they needed to make a safe pick and fit with the team imo.

And many actually feel Dunn was the best available in general so there is that... I still have a thing for Murray honestly, but I don't like Murray more than Lavine or Wiggins so Dunn was the right choice for Minnesota.

I definitely agree who was picked at #5 was up in the air, but in terms of fit, if you compare: Dunn/LaVine/Wiggins or Murray/LaVine/Wiggins then I don't jump to the conclusion that Dunn was the best fit with them.

The Dunn lineup suffers from 2 non-floor spacers, while the Murray lineup adds the floor spacing but has playmaking somewhat by committee and no good guard defenders. I see enough playmaking in that Murray lineup, and think the extra spacing would be worth the defensive downgrade -- if you think the players are a similar level prospects. And when you add in the fit with Rubio assuming he was kept, Murray fits better imo.

Now, if you have Dunn as the better prospect of the two, and (possibly?) are flexible on moving on from Rubio, then the fit of Dunn is also pretty good so he is an easy pick. It is definitely an interesting lineup, and just like thepast two years, Minnesota will be a league pass favorite.

The Hield argument I read a bunch and never got once a good case for him on Minnesota. I guess you could try to sell me on Rubio/Hield/Wiggins with LaVine super 6th man off the bench, but that feels like the most predictable offense you could imagine,each player with a very distinct role to cover them in. Full disclosure, I have no idea how Hield went as high as he did so maybe I'm just way too negative on Hield.