Get Milwaukee it's 3rd star

[skones]

I'm not touching Boogie with a ten foot pole with his achilles. A shiny new 120M+ deal with an injury that ends careers? No thanks.

[FNQ]

I'm not touching Boogie with a ten foot pole with his achilles. A shiny new 120M+ deal with an injury that ends careers? No thanks.

A recent study I saw before exiting the industry had Achilles' injuries with people under 35 to have only a slightly worse recovery rate (recovery rate = 100%) than ACL tears. I believe the gap was about 5%. Much like microfracture surgery, the stigma around Achilles' injuries is going to fall by the wayside soon. Not in public perception of course, but that's par for the course. Look what people think about Jabari and his ACLs, for example..

[skones]

I'm not touching Boogie with a ten foot pole with his achilles. A shiny new 120M+ deal with an injury that ends careers? No thanks.

A recent study I saw before exiting the industry had Achilles' injuries with people under 35 to have only a slightly worse recovery rate (recovery rate = 100%) than ACL tears. I believe the gap was about 5%. Much like microfracture surgery, the stigma around Achilles' injuries is going to fall by the wayside soon. Not in public perception of course, but that's par for the course. Look what people think about Jabari and his ACLs, for example..

There's a difference between recovery rate of a normal person, and a recovery rate for professional athletes as it relates to peak physical performance. I'd have to see specifics, but I don't think the study is necessarily pertinent here, especially when you're talking about your recovery rate of a person vs the recovery of a 7 foot tall 270lb mountain. The evidence in athletes, particularly in the NBA is pretty damning.

[FNQ]

I'm not touching Boogie with a ten foot pole with his achilles. A shiny new 120M+ deal with an injury that ends careers? No thanks.

A recent study I saw before exiting the industry had Achilles' injuries with people under 35 to have only a slightly worse recovery rate (recovery rate = 100%) than ACL tears. I believe the gap was about 5%. Much like microfracture surgery, the stigma around Achilles' injuries is going to fall by the wayside soon. Not in public perception of course, but that's par for the course. Look what people think about Jabari and his ACLs, for example..

There's a difference between recovery rate of a normal person, and a recovery rate for professional athletes as it relates to peak physical performance. I'd have to see specifics, but I don't think the study is necessarily pertinent here, especially when you're talking about your recovery rate of a person vs the recovery of a 7 foot tall 270lb mountain. The evidence in athletes, particularly in the NBA is pretty damning.

Studies are *always* pertinent. I know we like to divide athletes into different columns than average people, but the logistics are the same. Now there is definitely a sliding scale in terms of health to height/weight, but that kind of thing is of course accounted for.

But a 7' WWE guy tearing their Achilles vs a 7' NBA athlete tearing their Achilles is the same. Ditto if the player is in NCAA. These things are all relative, and these are the best surgeons and doctors in the world training high level sports medicine people, specifically rehab specialists. They account for the easy stuff like this. Especially because this seminar (March 2017 in LA) had representatives from almost all the pro teams in the big 4 of US sports.

The complex part is in the details - what accompanied this injury? Self-inflicted or was it trauma-based? Freak accident or part of a systemic issue with how the person walks/runs/jumps? But in the NBA, everyone always cites Elton Brand. That was 8 and a half years ago, back when microfracture was considered a death sentence too. I'm just saying, Boogie is being de-valued in the same way Jabari is. The recovery rate for one ACL is obviously better than an Achilles injury, but 2.. there's not enough data on that yet. But a lot of people are acting like there's no way either will get back to 100%, and that's just not true. I dont think there's any reason to believe either one has a leg up ( ) over the other in terms of full recovery at this stage.

[skones]

The complex part is in the details - what accompanied this injury? Self-inflicted or was it trauma-based? Freak accident or part of a systemic issue with how the person walks/runs/jumps? But in the NBA, everyone always cites Elton Brand. That was 8 and a half years ago, back when microfracture was considered a death sentence too. I'm just saying, Boogie is being de-valued in the same way Jabari is. The recovery rate for one ACL is obviously better than an Achilles injury, but 2.. there's not enough data on that yet. But a lot of people are acting like there's no way either will get back to 100%, and that's just not true. I dont think there's any reason to believe either one has a leg up ( ) over the other in terms of full recovery at this stage.

It's more than just Elton Brand. Albeit older, Kobe Bryants achilles made him go from producing at a still elite level to hot garbage. Rudy Gay doesn't look anywhere near as explosive as he once was. Brandon Jennings was robbed of any speed advantage he had. Wesley Matthews overall efficiency levels plummeted.

To me, Jabari looks like Jabari, we're just bringing him along slow. He's an injury risk, but he's out there, and his per minute numbers are pretty damn close. He's still strong, he's still incredibly explosive, but that's really not part of this discussion.

I really don't think he and Boogie are on the same plane here. To me, Boogie is a much greater risk given his size and the necessary investment as he's going through his recovery process. There's far more of an unknown imo and thus a far riskier investment.

[FNQ]

It's more than just Elton Brand. Albeit older, Kobe Bryants achilles made him go from producing at a still elite level to hot garbage. Rudy Gay doesn't look anywhere near as explosive as he once was. Brandon Jennings was robbed of any speed advantage he had. Wesley Matthews overall efficiency levels plummeted.

Everyone listed above (w/exception of Rudy Gay, I'd think) went through the old rehab process, which predicated a lot on rest. The new rehab process focuses on motion, specifically strengthening calf muscles slowly but equally to improve stabilization. Ultrasound is a new method being introduced as well to favorable results. Not to mention not all ruptures are created equal, and everything I've heard about Cousins' injury has been on the lower to average end. Rudy Gay's was a full rupture. I believe Elton's was too, but I never got any info about Kobe. All this said, the standard window to get to 100% is in the 15-24 month range, but that's only because getting the least few % points is always the toughest part.

To me, Jabari looks like Jabari, we're just bringing him along slow. He's an injury risk, but he's out there, and his per minute numbers are pretty damn close. He's still strong, he's still incredibly explosive, but that's really not part of this discussion.

It is though. A twice torn ACL is significant, to be sure. Basically its a rubber band, and each ACL tear means a different rubber band is stapled to the old rubber band. Every time it snaps you are losing a bit of natural tension, as well as creating more holes in the original ACL, making it more prone to tear again. But looks are entirely subjective, its about strength and elasticity, and we can't see that with the naked eye. I havent seen a difference either, but Jabari's a talented player so it would be hard to spot on court.

I really don't think he and Boogie are on the same plane here. To me, Boogie is a much greater risk given his size and the necessary investment as he's going through his recovery process. There's far more of an unknown imo and thus a far riskier investment.

They aren't, Jabari does have a better chance at regaining 100% than Cousins, my point was simply that its much much closer than people think, to the point where seriously devaluing one and not the other would go against recent studies of Achilles' ruptures. Or in short, I wouldnt be scared to give Cousins a big deal.

[skones]

It is though. A twice torn ACL is significant, to be sure. Basically its a rubber band, and each ACL tear means a different rubber band is stapled to the old rubber band. Every time it snaps you are losing a bit of natural tension, as well as creating more holes in the original ACL, making it more prone to tear again. But looks are entirely subjective, its about strength and elasticity, and we can't see that with the naked eye. I havent seen a difference either, but Jabari's a talented player so it would be hard to spot on court.

Jabari's ACL recovery, quite literally, has nothing to do with Boogie's recovery from his achilles. They are independent values. Nobody is saying that two ACL tears isn't a red flag. That's not the point.

As I said, the results of achilles rupture recovery are pretty damning recently. Is it the end all be all? Obviously not. You can either be a pioneer with the new rehab process with the lack of worry or be left holding your dick swinging in the breeze on the hook for a shiny new 120M+ deal for a guy who will likely still have quite a ways to go with his recovery when next season begins.

You say you wouldn't be worried, I'd say there's A LOT to be worried about. You've got current recovery, you've got length of contract prognosis, you've got age of decline, you real world dollars factor into all of this along with a potentially serious dead unmovable weight on your payroll.

[FNQ]

It is though. A twice torn ACL is significant, to be sure. Basically its a rubber band, and each ACL tear means a different rubber band is stapled to the old rubber band. Every time it snaps you are losing a bit of natural tension, as well as creating more holes in the original ACL, making it more prone to tear again. But looks are entirely subjective, its about strength and elasticity, and we can't see that with the naked eye. I havent seen a difference either, but Jabari's a talented player so it would be hard to spot on court.

Jabari's ACL recovery, quite literally, has nothing to do with Boogie's recovery from his achilles. They are independent values. Nobody is saying that two ACL tears isn't a red flag. That's not the point.

As I said, the results of achilles rupture recovery are pretty damning recently. Is it the end all be all? Obviously not. You can either be a pioneer with the new rehab process with the lack of worry or be left holding your dick swinging in the breeze on the hook for a shiny new 120M+ deal for a guy who will likely still have quite a ways to go with his recovery when next season begins.

You say you wouldn't be worried, I'd say there's A LOT to be worried about. You've got current recovery, you've got length of contract prognosis, you've got age of decline, you real world dollars factor into all of this along with a potentially serious weight on your payroll.

Well dont mind me, I was just a professional rehab specialist for 15 years working with pro teams, with intimate knowledge of how both injuries and recoveries work.

EDIT: In case anyone wanted to be medically accurate, the results of achilles rupture recover are not pretty damning recently. Thats the point. This isn't theory, this is a medically tested fact.

[skones]

It is though. A twice torn ACL is significant, to be sure. Basically its a rubber band, and each ACL tear means a different rubber band is stapled to the old rubber band. Every time it snaps you are losing a bit of natural tension, as well as creating more holes in the original ACL, making it more prone to tear again. But looks are entirely subjective, its about strength and elasticity, and we can't see that with the naked eye. I havent seen a difference either, but Jabari's a talented player so it would be hard to spot on court.

Jabari's ACL recovery, quite literally, has nothing to do with Boogie's recovery from his achilles. They are independent values. Nobody is saying that two ACL tears isn't a red flag. That's not the point.

As I said, the results of achilles rupture recovery are pretty damning recently. Is it the end all be all? Obviously not. You can either be a pioneer with the new rehab process with the lack of worry or be left holding your dick swinging in the breeze on the hook for a shiny new 120M+ deal for a guy who will likely still have quite a ways to go with his recovery when next season begins.

You say you wouldn't be worried, I'd say there's A LOT to be worried about. You've got current recovery, you've got length of contract prognosis, you've got age of decline, you real world dollars factor into all of this along with a potentially serious weight on your payroll.

Well dont mind me, I was just a professional rehab specialist for 15 years working with pro teams, with intimate knowledge of how both injuries and recoveries work.

EDIT: In case anyone wanted to be medically accurate, the results of achilles rupture recover are not pretty damning recently. Thats the point. This isn't theory, this is a medically tested fact.

I'm not discounting what you said. I'm simply stating that you can't provide me with successful examples in recent memory of athletes in the NBA, let alone one at Boogie's size. You're using generalizations, I'm being NBA specific. Your counterpoint to results in the NBA being pretty damning is what exactly? Why you're taking that so personally because you're a professional rehab specialist is beyond me.

But hey, I'm in business and deal with price negotiation, cost-benefit analysis, and value proposition on a daily basis. That must make me more qualified here as it pertains to accurately assessing trade values. Is that how that works? You can't sit there with ANY type of certainty and tell me Cousins will absolutely be 100% in the near future, or down the line because you don't have a crystal ball. You can "not be worried" all you want, but acting as if there aren't plausible worries for others is beyond ridiculous.

Would you put 25%+ of your own income (salary cap slot) on the line for the next 4 years, knowing that if it doesn't work out, your wife is filing for divorce after two (Giannis or AD take your pick)? That's what this is, and I certainly wouldn't.

[FNQ]

I'm not discounting what you said. I'm simply stating that you can't provide me with successful examples in recent memory of athletes in the NBA, let alone one at Boogie's size. You're using generalizations, I'm being NBA specific. Your counterpoint to results in the NBA being pretty damning is what exactly? Why you're taking that so personally because you're a professional rehab specialist is beyond me.

No, see you are the one using generalization, and thats what's irritating. I am telling you data from one of the best annual meetings about rehab techniques in the year, and you are using general, vague, and casual fan questions to discredit it. Like they would be talking about average joes in these seminars.. its ridiculous. I've answered your questions about why the casual fan looking at the word Achilles is going to overreact. Its already there. I get irritated when fans, when being told that these things are wrong, double down on it because of limited understanding.

But hey, I'm in business and deal with price negotiation, cost-benefit analysis, and value proposition on a daily basis. That must make me more qualified here as it pertains to accurately assessing trade values. Is that how that works?

Is it NBA specific? It doesnt count if it isn't.

You can't sit there with ANY type of certainty and tell me Cousins will absolutely be 100% in the near future, or down the line because you don't have a crystal ball. You can "not be worried" all you want, but acting as if there aren't plausible worries for others is beyond ridiculous.

I can't say with certainty that he'll be 100%, no. I can say with certainty that you have misrepresented the position, and I can say with certainty that a twice reconstructed ACL and the likelihood of said player getting back to his previous athleticism is ever so slightly ahead of a first time Achilles rupture, especially in the location and with the severity of Boogie's injury. Yes, I know both of those things. But what is crazy to me is the mental gymnastics of giving one more credit than the other. I said that Jabari will likely be fine, but I missed the part where I was grilled about 6'9, 250 pound people with a twice-repaired ACL getting back to 100%.

Would you put 25%+ of your own income (salary cap slot) on the line for the next 4 years, knowing that if it doesn't work out, your wife is filing for divorce after two (Giannis or AD take your pick)? That's what this is, and I certainly wouldn't.

Considering that income% would either go to Jabari (a lesser player with a close to as severe injury) or basically to no one (Pelicans' case), I certainly would. Because what happens if neither the Bucks or Pelicans get Cousins should be part of that analysis, right?

[ejftw]

Convince JJ Reddick to come over

[vege]

Apparently the OP could predict the future and he knew they would get their 2nd star with a 10 day contract in Jennings, now they need a 3rd star next to Giannis and Jennings

Glad to see he's aparently healthy, he was great in Detroit and I believe things would've been a lot better for us and for him if he never get injured.

[eitanr]

I think the Bucks should get clever. Brogdan should be re-considered as the starting 1. He did well in that role and the second stud next to Giannis should be more of a spacer who can score. Bledsoe also would relish in a 6th man role.

Here are off-season targets.

1. Lou Williams (via Delly and a 1st)
2. D. Gallinari (Henson, Delly and a 1st)
3. K. Love (using Middleton + Mirza)

Ideally you could do options 2 and 3. Run a positionless lineup of the following:

Thon/Love/Gallo/Giannis/Brogdan - Bledsoe as 6th man.

[Boarder Patrol]

Who is Milwaukee's 2nd star? I like MKE but they don't have anyone outside of Giannis I'd consider a star.