Christian Wood to Golden State

[Zan Tabacco]

The Rockets wouldn’t trade Wood for Wiseman plus the Minnesota pick.

They certainly wouldn’t even consider anything less than that.

I don't have Wood's value at anything remotely close to this. A recent top 2 pick and another top 5 pick in a better draft. That's the minimum offer in your mind? Damn. Pass. Easily.

Wood wasn't even drafted and he is much better than your 'recent top 2 pick'.
Draft position doesn't matter when you're a bust.
By your logic, Wiggins (#1 pick) has more trade value than Durant (2nd pick), Embiid (3rd pick), Jokic (41st pick), etc...

Yeah Woods isn't worth a top 5 pick in this draft. Wiseman & a late lotto was a fair offer.

[ThatBoyNick]

As a Rocket fan, I will give my 2 cents on Woods value pick wise

1 pick in the 6-9 range
or
2 picks in the 10-15 range

So if Wiseman is worth a pick in the 10-15 range, and Warriors pick in that range as well, then I view it as fair value.

Wiseman is difficult to assess here, the # 2 pick from the last draft but has been a big net negative on the court next to an MVP talent in Curry and DPOY guy in Dray, inside a winning culture / org. That being said, he's a 20 year old big and they take time, just hard to see a net negative in that kind of environment as highly valuable at the moment. There's really no reason he should be averaging below league average efficiency from the field as a big man playing with Steph.

[oldncreaky]

I’m very hesitant about Jerami Grant trades in general due to the circumstances of his signing in Detroit. Denver offered him the same money, but he specifically chose Detroit because (1) he preferred to have a bigger role on a worse team, and (2) he wanted to play for a Black coach and I think even a Black GM. Trading him to GS (or a lot of the teams proposed for him on T&T) essentially just puts him back in the Denver situation that he deliberately chose to leave. Not worth the potential drama, and also I think it’d really hurt the Pistons’ reputation.

I don’t think he signed in Detroit to be the man on a worse team. I think he signed in Detroit simply because they presented him the opportunity that Denver, even at the same money, simply didn’t offer. He wanted a chance to FINALLY have the opportunity to exhibit his lead ball handling and creating skills, and present is fully offensive skills. Even if Denver matched the salary, they weren’t offering him the role.

I do recall he also loved the opportunity to play for a franchise with both a black head coach and GM, though. But I think the opportunity to “prove himself” was the largest motivator.

No disagreements with your take, but PR optics matter to the Pistons

Franchises like the Pistons and Pacers have a harder time attracting free agents, and that's part of why Detroit's FO played up Grant's signing so much in local media. It was annoying, and reminded me of how the 'stones tried to hype up Ben Gordon and Charlie Villaneva a decade ago. For GM Weaver to turn around and trade Grant in a year could be embarrassing, and execs never like to be embarrassed.

I doubt Grant is available in 2021 off-season because of this off-the-court reason.

That said, I think NYG's revised 3-way trade is pretty fair

Detroit Pistons get:
Andrew Wiggins
5th Overall Draft Pick

Golden State Warriors get:
Jerami Grant
Christian Wood
Danuel House

Houston Rockets get:
James Wiseman
Rodney McGruder
13th Overall Draft Pick

[FNQ]

If Wood only costs #13 and Wiseman (+Looney for salary purposes).. lets just do that and call it a day. Put McGruder back, cut out Detroit, we keep Wiggins and the #5. I might ask for a SRP or 2 to balance it out, but thats about it.

[Scoot McGroot]

I’m very hesitant about Jerami Grant trades in general due to the circumstances of his signing in Detroit. Denver offered him the same money, but he specifically chose Detroit because (1) he preferred to have a bigger role on a worse team, and (2) he wanted to play for a Black coach and I think even a Black GM. Trading him to GS (or a lot of the teams proposed for him on T&T) essentially just puts him back in the Denver situation that he deliberately chose to leave. Not worth the potential drama, and also I think it’d really hurt the Pistons’ reputation.

I don’t think he signed in Detroit to be the man on a worse team. I think he signed in Detroit simply because they presented him the opportunity that Denver, even at the same money, simply didn’t offer. He wanted a chance to FINALLY have the opportunity to exhibit his lead ball handling and creating skills, and present is fully offensive skills. Even if Denver matched the salary, they weren’t offering him the role.

I do recall he also loved the opportunity to play for a franchise with both a black head coach and GM, though. But I think the opportunity to “prove himself” was the largest motivator.

No disagreements with your take, but PR optics matter to the Pistons

Franchises like the Pistons and Pacers have a harder time attracting free agents, and that's part of why Detroit's FO played up Grant's signing so much in local media. It was annoying, and reminded me of how the 'stones tried to hype up Ben Gordon and Charlie Villaneva a decade ago. For GM Weaver to turn around and trade Grant in a year could be embarrassing, and execs never like to be embarrassed.

I doubt Grant is available in 2021 off-season because of this off-the-court reason.

That said, I think NYG's revised 3-way trade is pretty fair

Detroit Pistons get:
Andrew Wiggins
5th Overall Draft Pick

Golden State Warriors get:
Jerami Grant
Christian Wood
Danuel House

Houston Rockets get:
James Wiseman
Rodney McGruder
13th Overall Draft Pick

I’m a fan of the Indiana Pacers, so I get that PR optics matter on someone signing with you. However, you also have to do what’s best for the franchise, too. In fact, trading him now for a benefit wouldn’t be embarrassing to the Pistons or Weaver at all. It would show that they had made a very savvy investment last offseason in signing someone for “more money” than what others seemed to think Grant was worth.

[vetmin]

I’m very hesitant about Jerami Grant trades in general due to the circumstances of his signing in Detroit. Denver offered him the same money, but he specifically chose Detroit because (1) he preferred to have a bigger role on a worse team, and (2) he wanted to play for a Black coach and I think even a Black GM. Trading him to GS (or a lot of the teams proposed for him on T&T) essentially just puts him back in the Denver situation that he deliberately chose to leave. Not worth the potential drama, and also I think it’d really hurt the Pistons’ reputation.

I don’t think he signed in Detroit to be the man on a worse team. I think he signed in Detroit simply because they presented him the opportunity that Denver, even at the same money, simply didn’t offer. He wanted a chance to FINALLY have the opportunity to exhibit his lead ball handling and creating skills, and present is fully offensive skills. Even if Denver matched the salary, they weren’t offering him the role.

I do recall he also loved the opportunity to play for a franchise with both a black head coach and GM, though. But I think the opportunity to “prove himself” was the largest motivator.

Yeah, but it's a given that any such opportunity would involve going to a worse team than Denver, most likely a godawful team, which is what happened. He knew/knows as well as anyone that he wouldn't get a chance to prove himself in a bigger role on a team that's greater than or equal to Denver. If he went to Boston, he'd be part of a system built around Tatum and Brown; if he went to the Warriors, he'd be the 4th most important player on the team (i.e., after Steph/Klay/Draymond); if he went to the Jazz, he'd be behind Mitchell and Gobert in the pecking order; etc. etc. etc.

His choice this past offseason was between being a very high-end role player on a possible contender, or betting on himself as a franchise type of guy on whatever team would give him that opportunity, which was 100% guaranteed to be a mediocre-to-bad team (since good teams are good because they already have proven stars, whose ranks he hasn't really risen to yet). He specifically chose the latter route (bigger role, even if team sucks), so when I see these trade scenarios that involve him slotting back into that supporting cast, 3rd- or 4th-option type of role -- usually with a non-Black coach & GM, to boot (even if that was just a secondary motivator) -- it just seems like trading him back to the Denver situation that he deliberately walked away from.

The Pistons would risk becoming completely radioactive to free agents, and the team acquiring Grant would risk bad vibes in the locker room, which is scary if you gave up a lot to acquire him.

[Scoot McGroot]

I’m very hesitant about Jerami Grant trades in general due to the circumstances of his signing in Detroit. Denver offered him the same money, but he specifically chose Detroit because (1) he preferred to have a bigger role on a worse team, and (2) he wanted to play for a Black coach and I think even a Black GM. Trading him to GS (or a lot of the teams proposed for him on T&T) essentially just puts him back in the Denver situation that he deliberately chose to leave. Not worth the potential drama, and also I think it’d really hurt the Pistons’ reputation.

I don’t think he signed in Detroit to be the man on a worse team. I think he signed in Detroit simply because they presented him the opportunity that Denver, even at the same money, simply didn’t offer. He wanted a chance to FINALLY have the opportunity to exhibit his lead ball handling and creating skills, and present is fully offensive skills. Even if Denver matched the salary, they weren’t offering him the role.

I do recall he also loved the opportunity to play for a franchise with both a black head coach and GM, though. But I think the opportunity to “prove himself” was the largest motivator.

Yeah, but it's a given that any such opportunity would involve going to a worse team than Denver, most likely a godawful team, which is what happened. He knew/knows as well as anyone that he wouldn't get a chance to prove himself in a bigger role on a team that's greater than or equal to Denver. If he went to Boston, he'd be part of a system built around Tatum and Brown; if he went to the Warriors, he'd be the 4th most important player on the team (i.e., after Steph/Klay/Draymond); if he went to the Jazz, he'd be behind Mitchell and Gobert in the pecking order; etc. etc. etc.

His choice this past offseason was between being a very high-end role player on a possible contender, or betting on himself as a franchise type of guy on whatever team would give him that opportunity, which was 100% guaranteed to be a mediocre-to-bad team (since good teams are good because they already have proven stars, whose ranks he hasn't really risen to yet). He specifically chose the latter route (bigger role, even if team sucks), so when I see these trade scenarios that involve him slotting back into that supporting cast, 3rd- or 4th-option type of role -- usually with a non-Black coach & GM, to boot (even if that was just a secondary motivator) -- it just seems like trading him back to the Denver situation that he deliberately walked away from.

The Pistons would risk becoming completely radioactive to free agents, and the team acquiring Grant would risk bad vibes in the locker room, which is scary if you gave up a lot to acquire him.

We shouldn’t hold it against him that he went to Detroit though. He went where there was an opportunity for him to fulfill the confidence he had in himself. I’m sure he’d LOVE to prove his full worth on a great team if he’s given that opportunity. It just read as if you tried to paint him like a “loser” because he went to play for a bad team in Detroit. We hold it against guys when they don’t fulfill their promise. Let’s not hold it against guys when they try and prove their worth and are confident in their talent. He went and did it?

[vetmin]

We shouldn’t hold it against him that he went to Detroit though. He went where there was an opportunity for him to fulfill the confidence he had in himself. I’m sure he’d LOVE to prove his full worth on a great team if he’s given that opportunity. It just read as if you tried to paint him like a “loser” because he went to play for a bad team in Detroit. We hold it against guys when they don’t fulfill their promise. Let’s not hold it against guys when they try and prove their worth and are confident in their talent. He went and did it?

Oh I don't hold anything against Grant at all. I'm just saying that in these trade ideas where the Pistons send Grant to a good team, the Pistons would be screwing him over, since it's not logically possible for him to "prove his full worth" (i.e., play the kind of role he has in Detroit, or at least a role any bigger than he'd have in Denver) on a good team, much less a great one. Every good-to-great team already has multiple players better than him that they're building around; that's why those teams are as good as they are. By necessity, any trade that sends him to a good team is a trade that makes him a role player again, like he would've been in Denver, and like he specifically chose not to be when he went to Detroit. Like, you would never say, "I'm sure Elfrid Payton would LOVE to be a marquee player on a great team if given the opportunity," because by definition any team in which Elfrid Payton is a marquee player cannot be a great -- or even good -- team. Grant is obviously closer than Payton to being that higher caliber of player, but he's not there yet.

So unless Grant feels differently now than he did in the offseason, I have to imagine he'd be pretty upset about a trade that would make him what he would've been in Denver, and if he's upset then that's bad for both of the teams involved -- the Pistons because it'd scare away agents/players, the acquiring team because you don't want a malcontent ruining the team's chemistry when you're trying to win a title (unless that malcontent is a legit superstar and you're fine with a rental).

[Scoot McGroot]

We shouldn’t hold it against him that he went to Detroit though. He went where there was an opportunity for him to fulfill the confidence he had in himself. I’m sure he’d LOVE to prove his full worth on a great team if he’s given that opportunity. It just read as if you tried to paint him like a “loser” because he went to play for a bad team in Detroit. We hold it against guys when they don’t fulfill their promise. Let’s not hold it against guys when they try and prove their worth and are confident in their talent. He went and did it?

Oh I don't hold anything against Grant at all. I'm just saying that in these trade ideas where the Pistons send Grant to a good team, the Pistons would be screwing him over, since it's not logically possible for him to "prove his full worth" (i.e., play the kind of role he has in Detroit, or at least a role any bigger than he'd have in Denver) on a good team, much less a great one. Every good-to-great team already has multiple players better than him that they're building around; that's why those teams are as good as they are. By necessity, any trade that sends him to a good team is a trade that makes him a role player again, like he would've been in Denver, and like he specifically chose not to be when he went to Detroit. Like, you would never say, "I'm sure Elfrid Payton would LOVE to be a marquee player on a great team if given the opportunity," because by definition any team in which Elfrid Payton is a marquee player cannot be a great -- or even good -- team. Grant is obviously closer than Payton to being that higher caliber of player, but he's not there yet.

So unless Grant feels differently now than he did in the offseason, I have to imagine he'd be pretty upset about a trade that would make him what he would've been in Denver, and if he's upset then that's bad for both of the teams involved -- the Pistons because it'd scare away agents/players, the acquiring team because you don't want a malcontent ruining the team's chemistry when you're trying to win a title (unless that malcontent is a legit superstar and you're fine with a rental).

I don’t think this is the case at all. He went to Detroit and proved he had more to his game. A team trading value for him right now would be doing so to utilize his proven skills now. They’re not going to pay new market value for him and say “we actually traded for you to never handle the ball and just be a 3 and D wing”. They’re still going to situationally use him in this expanded way.

[JD45]

I think Wood for Wiseman and Looney is fair, without the need for picks.

Wood is the better player now but he has some physical limitations. He is sized more like a small forward. I wonder if his game will hold up in the playoffs when teams can gameplan for him and exploit his weaknesses. It was a great signing by Houston, but very suspicious that he is with his 7th team in 7 years. It seems very unlikely they are all just stupid, nor that he blossomed out of nowhere in year 7. So, I am not sold on him suddenly and permanently being an elite player.

Wiseman has more physical potential. I don't think he is a bust. He is doing just fine for a rookie big man. But also unlikely to be a super star given some limitations that are showing up. I think he eventually can reach somewhere close to Wood's current level with a better size match for his position.

So a deal makes sense given the respective timelines of each team, but no need for either to add more value.

[ZombieKilla]

If Wood only costs #13 and Wiseman (+Looney for salary purposes).. lets just do that and call it a day. Put McGruder back, cut out Detroit, we keep Wiggins and the #5. I might ask for a SRP or 2 to balance it out, but thats about it.

The Rockets have zero interest in making this trade.
There are a lot of fans of other teams who are saying that they think this is a fair trade, so you should offer them Wiseman for their best player.
I think that is a fair trade.

[Texas Chuck]

The Rockets have zero interest in making this trade.
There are a lot of fans of other teams who are saying that they think this is a fair trade, so you should offer them Wiseman for their best player.
I think that is a fair trade.

Huh? What is the point of this?

Do you really think Wood has the same value as Lebron? or Giannis? or Harden? or Zion? or.....?

Wood being the Rockets' best player might impact their willingness to deal him, so saying you have no interest, cool.

Wood being the Rockets' best player doesn't increase his value just because the other players aren't as good. That's totally irrelevant to the price another team will pay who don't care if he's your best player or not.

[FNQ]

If Wood only costs #13 and Wiseman (+Looney for salary purposes).. lets just do that and call it a day. Put McGruder back, cut out Detroit, we keep Wiggins and the #5. I might ask for a SRP or 2 to balance it out, but thats about it.

The Rockets have zero interest in making this trade.
There are a lot of fans of other teams who are saying that they think this is a fair trade, so you should offer them Wiseman for their best player.
I think that is a fair trade.

Frankly after a close up look at him last night, I’m ok with that

[Xman]

After this year, Houston has its own picks for two years. Then it owes OKC (2024+2026 1sts top 4 protected and 2025 swap top 10 protected).
Hou getting POR 2021 1st but Hou 2021 pick goes to OKC it if it not in top 4 and HOU get the lowest of OKC/MIA back (right to swap either with BKN which will not happen). HOU also getting MIL pick in a swap for a 2nd.

Hou is stuck with Wall and Gordon contracts for two years - which is when Wood expires. So, Houston cannot add much help until Wood is expiring and wanting massive money. The guy has been amazing but trading him makes sense. When his salary jack up after his contract is up, he is just another good player making a lot of money. The low cap number for the next two years is a huge bonus and it does not help Houston.

So, I would take Wiseman and #12 for Wood. GS could also have House and Wilson if they want them. Might even include the MIL 1st if necessary.

Hou moves forward with Wiseman and a top 4 pick (or pick goes to OKC), #12ish from GS, #21 from Por, #22 from MIL.

[zimpy27]

If Wood only costs #13 and Wiseman (+Looney for salary purposes).. lets just do that and call it a day. Put McGruder back, cut out Detroit, we keep Wiggins and the #5. I might ask for a SRP or 2 to balance it out, but thats about it.

The Rockets have zero interest in making this trade.
There are a lot of fans of other teams who are saying that they think this is a fair trade, so you should offer them Wiseman for their best player.
I think that is a fair trade.

Frankly after a close up look at him last night, I’m ok with that

I'm not sure if Wiseman is worth much anymore if he gets the injury-prone label or top of the question marks.

I can't think of a team that would take a big risk on him at this point so I suspect the Warriors definitely hang on to him now. Your thoughts?

[JD45]

The Rockets have zero interest in making this trade.
There are a lot of fans of other teams who are saying that they think this is a fair trade, so you should offer them Wiseman for their best player.
I think that is a fair trade.

Frankly after a close up look at him last night, I’m ok with that

I'm not sure if Wiseman is worth much anymore if he gets the injury-prone label or top of the question marks.

I can't think of a team that would take a big risk on him at this point so I suspect the Warriors definitely hang on to him now. Your thoughts?

Meniscus tear is not a big deal. Of course increases the chance that further tearing could eventually end his career, but usually not. If a player has to have a knee injury, that's the one with the best recovery prognosis. So I don't think the injury has hurt Wiseman's value. The main problem is not getting to show continued improvement through the rest of the year.

[CBA]

You can mark me down as a someone who sees Wiseman as a bust and not having any value.

My counter offer would be:
Wiggins
Wiseman
Minny Pick
GSW Pick

for

Gordon
Wood
Bradley
small filler

GS can pick the pieces around Wood coming in, but I think this would help them the most.

This violates the unrealistic counter policy and this continues to be a theme with you. In the future if you don't like a proposed deal, state why or simply refrain from posting. This is not conducive and its led to more posts Mods are being asked to address. Last free warning on this. Please change your tactics.

Two things

1) Saying Wiseman has no value is definitely a "WTF" moment--no matter how low you personally are on Wiseman (I am quite low), to say he has no value is a joke.

2) I dont think the counter offer is terrible--its just bad and a homer offer.

Yeah, that offer is actually a decent starting point. Wood’s value is appreciably higher than Wiseman’s for a contending team imo and Wiggins is a significant negative that is moved for less negative value in Gordon/Bradley who are, again, actually useful for a contending team. The Minny pick bridges the gap between Wood, Gordon, Bradley v Wiseman, Wiggins.

The GSW pick is overkill of course.

[FNQ]

The Rockets have zero interest in making this trade.
There are a lot of fans of other teams who are saying that they think this is a fair trade, so you should offer them Wiseman for their best player.
I think that is a fair trade.

Frankly after a close up look at him last night, I’m ok with that

I'm not sure if Wiseman is worth much anymore if he gets the injury-prone label or top of the question marks.

I can't think of a team that would take a big risk on him at this point so I suspect the Warriors definitely hang on to him now. Your thoughts?

Injury prone is a tough label to throw around considering how both injuries happened. Both times undercut.. maybe this encourages him to attack the rim less, but really, I think he's just being stupid. You can't be a guard, you're a C. You don't sky like a Jordan or you end up wounded like a Dwight.

I dont know that this changes much. If a star becomes available in the offseason, Wiseman is available. He has shown flashes, but he's also shown that he's very raw and is very much a "step 1 of the rebuild" type of asset. So where does this leave him? I'd argue in the exact position he was before the injury, albeit with a stagnant value that we had hoped to raise before the season's end

[FNQ]

Frankly after a close up look at him last night, I’m ok with that

I'm not sure if Wiseman is worth much anymore if he gets the injury-prone label or top of the question marks.

I can't think of a team that would take a big risk on him at this point so I suspect the Warriors definitely hang on to him now. Your thoughts?

Meniscus tear is not a big deal. Of course increases the chance that further tearing could eventually end his career, but usually not. If a player has to have a knee injury, that's the one with the best recovery prognosis. So I don't think the injury has hurt Wiseman's value. The main problem is not getting to show continued improvement through the rest of the year.

I disagree when it comes to a player this size. We dont have a ton of info right now, but this is exactly how arthritic knees start. Its something to monitor going forward, but I wouldn't characterize it as not a big deal until we know a lot more details - most of which wont be available to the public

[Commodor]

What is the point of this for GSW?

Some of the deals are absolutely ridiculous. Think it out. Even if, as some have posted, wiseman has no value (spoiler he does) why would GSW trade all their draft assets for Woods?

Does adding Woods to this capped out roster make them any closer to truly contending? No. Maybe they finish top 5-8 but what’s the point? They still lose to the deeper teams and are an injury away from catastrophe.

Woods for Wiseman+13 is probably what GSW would be comfortable with but then the cap comes into play and it falls apart.