Ayton deals: ORL, CHA, HOU, DET, yours?

[HornetJail]

Would love him in GS, but don't see PHX being interested in our prospect platter. I'd offer them all though.

Wiseman/Kuminga/Moody/'22 1st for Ayton/filler.

Wow that is one terrible trade.

Did you miss when he got played off the floor in the finals?

This is just so far from reality, literally GSW would never make that move.

maybe I did too, considering he played 36+ minutes in every game except the one he was in foul trouble, and wasn't a liability like you're suggesting...

[HornetJail]

Hornets are not fully out of a rebuild so I think the goal will be to increase the cost-controlled talent base. The first owed the Knicks is top 18 protected, so it's like the Hornets plan to continue adding cost-controlled talent, supplemented by bargain buys like Plumlee. I think a buy low target like Bamba fits the direction more than Ayton. I hope the Suns retain Ayton. They were one of my favorite teams to watch in the playoffs, the other being the Hawks.

if we were not paying $54M/year to Hayward+Rozier ($63M if you want to factor in the Batum stretch), Ayton wasn't a 23yo borderline star and an obvious answer to our decades-long center woes, and Bamba was decent at basketball, I would almost agree with this statement.

[MasterIchiro]

Hornets are not fully out of a rebuild so I think the goal will be to increase the cost-controlled talent base. The first owed the Knicks is top 18 protected, so it's like the Hornets plan to continue adding cost-controlled talent, supplemented by bargain buys like Plumlee. I think a buy low target like Bamba fits the direction more than Ayton. I hope the Suns retain Ayton. They were one of my favorite teams to watch in the playoffs, the other being the Hawks.

if we were not paying $54M/year to Hayward+Rozier ($63M if you want to factor in the Batum stretch), Ayton wasn't a 23yo borderline star and an obvious answer to our decades-long center woes, and Bamba was decent at basketball, I would almost agree with this statement.

The point is a buy low target makes more sense. Hornets are building a culture and depth. Kupchak is not in a position to empty the cupboard for a center, especially not after trading a first for Kai Jones. You can pretend that never happened all you want.

[eminence]

Would love him in GS, but don't see PHX being interested in our prospect platter. I'd offer them all though.

Wiseman/Kuminga/Moody/'22 1st for Ayton/filler.

Wow that is one terrible trade.

Did you miss when he got played off the floor in the finals?

This is just so far from reality, literally GSW would never make that move.

maybe I did too, considering he played 36+ minutes in every game except the one he was in foul trouble, and wasn't a liability like you're suggesting...

Yeah, no idea what finals that guy watched, he was 5th in minutes and #2 on the Suns.

I’m curious what commodor would offer, the starting point is obviously Wiseman+

[HornetJail]

Hornets are not fully out of a rebuild so I think the goal will be to increase the cost-controlled talent base. The first owed the Knicks is top 18 protected, so it's like the Hornets plan to continue adding cost-controlled talent, supplemented by bargain buys like Plumlee. I think a buy low target like Bamba fits the direction more than Ayton. I hope the Suns retain Ayton. They were one of my favorite teams to watch in the playoffs, the other being the Hawks.

if we were not paying $54M/year to Hayward+Rozier ($63M if you want to factor in the Batum stretch), Ayton wasn't a 23yo borderline star and an obvious answer to our decades-long center woes, and Bamba was decent at basketball, I would almost agree with this statement.

The point is a buy low target makes more sense. Hornets are building a culture and depth. Kupchak is not in a position to empty the cupboard for a center, especially not after trading a first for Kai Jones. You can pretend that never happened all you want.

hey I'm happy he traded a 1st, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't look to upgrade if we get a golden opportunity like that. Did Houston balk when they got the opportunity to trade a 1st and rookie Jeremy Lamb (12th pick) for an obvious upgrade?

[giberish]

Wow that is one terrible trade.

Did you miss when he got played off the floor in the finals?

This is just so far from reality, literally GSW would never make that move.

maybe I did too, considering he played 36+ minutes in every game except the one he was in foul trouble, and wasn't a liability like you're suggesting...

Yeah, no idea what finals that guy watched, he was 5th in minutes and #2 on the Suns.

I’m curious what commodor would offer, the starting point is obviously Wiseman+

The Suns big problem was that they had no useful backup bigs so were in trouble whenever Ayton sat. I'm not sure that they really fixed that problem in the offseason either. So if Phoenix traded Ayton, a starting center would be by far their biggest return need, with a solid backup PF/C as their 2nd biggest need. Having just been to the finals the Suns would care about fit and win-now value over prospect/pick value as well.

Of course that makes it hard to make a good trade at this point as the teams that would value Ayton most don't have high-quality starting centers to trade back to the Suns.

[eminence]

maybe I did too, considering he played 36+ minutes in every game except the one he was in foul trouble, and wasn't a liability like you're suggesting...

Yeah, no idea what finals that guy watched, he was 5th in minutes and #2 on the Suns.

I’m curious what commodor would offer, the starting point is obviously Wiseman+

The Suns big problem was that they had no useful backup bigs so were in trouble whenever Ayton sat. I'm not sure that they really fixed that problem in the offseason either. So if Phoenix traded Ayton, a starting center would be by far their biggest return need, with a solid backup PF/C as their 2nd biggest need. Having just been to the finals the Suns would care about fit and win-now value over prospect/pick value as well.

Of course that makes it hard to make a good trade at this point as the teams that would value Ayton most don't have high-quality starting centers to trade back to the Suns.

I could see a PHX/HOU/GS 3 way deal (or a team like Houston who wants some younger guys they don't immediately need to max like Ayton).

[eminence]

Along the lines of (trying to appease my fellow GS fan a bit here)

GS In: Ayton
GS Out: Wiseman/Moody/'22 1st

PHX In: Wood/House/'22 1st
PHX Out: Ayton

HOU In: Wiseman/Moody
HOU Out: Wood/House

[Slim Charless]

wow, no from detroit. Bordering on lockworthy

As in Detroit gets way too good a deal? Agreed. Two lower level prospects and a solid starting forward don't get you Ayton of course. Plus they get a prospect back.

No exact opposite. Grant >> ayton. And that's not counting 2 first round picks from last season - one of whom made the all rookie team.

A 14/10 traditional center isn't worth much in today's NBA. Heck, we just traded a 10/9 center for a 2nd rounder. Andre Drummund just signed a minimum deal. And Ayton is looking for a Max?

I mean can't argue this logic. Grant is worth much more. Look at what he did last year and where he got the Pistons. Can't lose that. Suns were awful in comparison. Plus, the last time Detroit had a great center-that Ben Wallace guy. He sucked and didn't really do or accomplish anything of note.

Great post bro.

[eminence]

The Pistons are a team I could also see participating in a 3 way with PHX/GS. Not sure I see anyone other than them and Houston who might rather have a pile of young talent instead of Ayton.

[Slim Charless]

4 teams that would offer him the max next year (all low cap so have the $$): NO, MEM, DET, ORL
If he signed the one year QO - to get true free agency - in two years: Add NY and Houston as suitors.

As a Suns fan, the Knicks are the only team that worries. No one else.

If he gets pissed by $arver's cheapness. He could absolutely take the QA, tell the Suns he's playing out the next season and will not resign and just take the 4 yr deal from NYK.

He'll lose 1 year of the contract compared to what PHXcan offer, but will more than make up for that via endorsements.

[Slim Charless]

maybe I did too, considering he played 36+ minutes in every game except the one he was in foul trouble, and wasn't a liability like you're suggesting...

Yeah, no idea what finals that guy watched, he was 5th in minutes and #2 on the Suns.

I’m curious what commodor would offer, the starting point is obviously Wiseman+

The Suns big problem was that they had no useful backup bigs so were in trouble whenever Ayton sat. I'm not sure that they really fixed that problem in the offseason either. So if Phoenix traded Ayton, a starting center would be by far their biggest return need, with a solid backup PF/C as their 2nd biggest need. Having just been to the finals the Suns would care about fit and win-now value over prospect/pick value as well.

Of course that makes it hard to make a good trade at this point as the teams that would value Ayton most don't have high-quality starting centers to trade back to the Suns.

Something for Booker's bestie KAT I imagine is the route they go if they were to trade him. I think he'll sign a max deal by this time next week though so this will all be for nothing imo.

[MasterIchiro]

if we were not paying $54M/year to Hayward+Rozier ($63M if you want to factor in the Batum stretch), Ayton wasn't a 23yo borderline star and an obvious answer to our decades-long center woes, and Bamba was decent at basketball, I would almost agree with this statement.

The point is a buy low target makes more sense. Hornets are building a culture and depth. Kupchak is not in a position to empty the cupboard for a center, especially not after trading a first for Kai Jones. You can pretend that never happened all you want.

hey I'm happy he traded a 1st, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't look to upgrade if we get a golden opportunity like that. Did Houston balk when they got the opportunity to trade a 1st and rookie Jeremy Lamb (12th pick) for an obvious upgrade?

By the time Kai has completed a fair evaluation as a potential solution at the 5, someone like Myles Turner will be steamrolling to free agency.n Why jump now? Having Plumlee there backed by PJ plus keeping prospects like Bouknight, instead of Ayton isn't going to make or break this season. The current phase is evaluation. I wouldn't panic. And I certainly wouldn't plug in Ayton's name with Harden's in the same sentence.

[eminence]

Yeah, no idea what finals that guy watched, he was 5th in minutes and #2 on the Suns.

I’m curious what commodor would offer, the starting point is obviously Wiseman+

The Suns big problem was that they had no useful backup bigs so were in trouble whenever Ayton sat. I'm not sure that they really fixed that problem in the offseason either. So if Phoenix traded Ayton, a starting center would be by far their biggest return need, with a solid backup PF/C as their 2nd biggest need. Having just been to the finals the Suns would care about fit and win-now value over prospect/pick value as well.

Of course that makes it hard to make a good trade at this point as the teams that would value Ayton most don't have high-quality starting centers to trade back to the Suns.

Something for Booker's bestie KAT I imagine is the route they go if they were to trade him. I think he'll sign a max deal by this time next week though so this will all be for nothing imo.

KAT is an interesting target, though a bit tricky to match salary for.

[jbk1234]

Ayton isn't getting traded this season. The Suns played in the Finals six months ago. They'll ride out the year with everyone and re-evaluate in the Summer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[Commodor]

Wow that is one terrible trade.

Did you miss when he got played off the floor in the finals?

This is just so far from reality, literally GSW would never make that move.

maybe I did too, considering he played 36+ minutes in every game except the one he was in foul trouble, and wasn't a liability like you're suggesting...

Yeah, no idea what finals that guy watched, he was 5th in minutes and #2 on the Suns.

I’m curious what commodor would offer, the starting point is obviously Wiseman+

Sorry I guess should have specified whenever Giannis went in, Ayton was a liability. He did have a lot of minutes but from what I remember he was pretty unplayable whenever the Bucks moved Giannis inside. He played a ton in the first two games prior to the bucks making that adjustment and then his numbers dropped across the board.

As for my hypothetical deal I agree you have to start with Wiseman but I am in the camp that Ayton is not worth max money so overall it's a pass. I think it should be a pretty big flag that PHX doesn't feel he is worth it too. The original deal does too little to alleviate the salary situation while decimating GSW depth. It's too late to go vet-min hunting so any injuries would be catastrophic. It would need to be expanded out to include one of the other 4 big contracts, likely Wiggins, which would then need a playable SF coming back. That would get too complex pretty quick.

Entertaining the idea that GSW would want him, I think the follow up proposal leaving out Kuminga is probably the most GSW offers but I just do not see a max Ayton with Curry-Klay-Wiggins-Draymond's contracts on the books.

[eminence]

maybe I did too, considering he played 36+ minutes in every game except the one he was in foul trouble, and wasn't a liability like you're suggesting...

Yeah, no idea what finals that guy watched, he was 5th in minutes and #2 on the Suns.

I’m curious what commodor would offer, the starting point is obviously Wiseman+

Sorry I guess should have specified whenever Giannis went in, Ayton was a liability. He did have a lot of minutes but from what I remember he was pretty unplayable whenever the Bucks moved Giannis inside. He played a ton in the first two games prior to the bucks making that adjustment and then his numbers dropped across the board.

As for my hypothetical deal I agree you have to start with Wiseman but I am in the camp that Ayton is not worth max money so overall it's a pass. I think it should be a pretty big flag that PHX doesn't feel he is worth it too. The original deal does too little to alleviate the salary situation while decimating GSW depth. It's too late to go vet-min hunting so any injuries would be catastrophic. It would need to be expanded out to include one of the other 4 big contracts, likely Wiggins, which would then need a playable SF coming back. That would get too complex pretty quick.

Entertaining the idea that GSW would want him, I think the follow up proposal leaving out Kuminga is probably the most GSW offers but I just do not see a max Ayton with Curry-Klay-Wiggins-Draymond's contracts on the books.

Not wanting to extend Ayton ourselves is a fine reason as well. If ownership said no I wouldn't deal for him.

I don't buy the depth argument. None of the youth currently project to be in the rotation at all (Wiseman probably will be once he comes back, but that's more due to draft spot than anything else - based on play he doesn't deserve any of the Looney or Bjelica minutes).

[Ducklett]

I am not sure why the Suns would trade him, outside of not wanting to pay him?

If I am the Magic, I throw money at him and see what happens. Aren't going to use that money anywhere else.

[basketballwacko2]

ok - so PHX will not pay Ayton. Better to deal him?
Also - picks can be added or deleted as needed. Tried to make the first few deals without picks.

ORL - Center is a big hole they are trying to fill. Obtaining a really good center that would sign the max and stay would be enticing.
ORL gets - Ayton, Saric, JSmith: - PHX gets - Suggs, Bamba, Carter
PHX would get its pg to replace PG3 in a couple of years and some center fodder.

CHA still trying to fill that center hole - and would round a nice staritng five of Melo/Rozier/Hayward/Oubre/Ayton.
CHA gets - Ayton, Saric, JSmith: PHX gets - Bouky, KaiJ, Thor, Plumlee, (PJ or Bridges)

HOU - would Houston pay him?
HOU gets - Ayton, Saric: PHX gets Sengun, House, Garuba, Wood.
PHX gets a center that can create space, a veteran wing in House and two nice rookies (Sengun is doing great; Garuba is a project but PHX needs a muscle man).

DET - Ready to add their franchise center?
DET gets - Ayton, Saric, JSmith; PHX gets Grant, Hayes, Stewart
PHX adds Grant and a couple of nice young players.

Add yours.

The story says that the Suns don't want to give him a Max contract. That doesn't mean they are ready to cut and run.

[Commodor]

Not wanting to extend Ayton ourselves is a fine reason as well. If ownership said no I wouldn't deal for him.

I don't buy the depth argument. None of the youth currently project to be in the rotation at all (Wiseman probably will be once he comes back, but that's more due to draft spot than anything else - based on play he doesn't deserve any of the Looney or Bjelica minutes).

The GSW depth is pretty shaky right now. If they stay healthy that's lovely but the reality is there are question marks all over.

Klay & OPJ are probably two of the most injury-prone players in the league at this point. Iguodala is 37 & can't be relied on for heavy minutes every night. Bjelica has never played an 80+ game season and barely cracked the rotation in Miami & Sac last year. Lee, Bradley, Mulder & GPII are questionable to even make the team.

This deal would really leave GSW with Poole, JTA & Looney as the only reliable depth. They need more than that.