PHI/POR/SAC - everyone you think is involved, is involved

[Myth]

"Low ball" is in the eye of the beholder of course, but going with "broken shot and super weak mentality" in lieu of "efficient but predictable 16 PPG with DPOY level defense and elite distribution" is kinda sorta telling on yourself.

No one's disputing his limitations, but making him sound like he can't play is just wasting a chance to have an honest discussion.

I'm not making it seem like he can't play. He can and he is a good player. But hes not a superstar.

As I mentioned in my post above, Harden, AD, Kawhi were all undoubtedly better than Simmons. None of those guys returned a superstar.

I just don't understand how anyone can think that Simmons will.

Contract length man. People keep forgetting the length of a players contract. Simmons had 4 years left. He’s under sixers control.

Harden had 2 year left. Same with kyrie. 4 vs 2 is a huge difference in terms of who has the leverage.

Leonard had one year left. Spurs had even less leverage.

Like I said. No player on competing team (raptors were not good when Vince got traded with 2.5 years left). Sixers are actually good when embiid plays 7-2 this season.

So combine with length of Simmons contract, his age and relatively healthy career (outside of the first year his foot where he could have played) and the back injury that’s all healed feb 2020 injury. and sixers not tanking. Why should they be in a rush to trade him for role players?

If Simmons had 2 years left. Yes. Different priority trying to trade him.

People fail to understand this. Simmons cannot just think he can sit at home and get paid. So he’s faked a mental illness and still getting fine for not even going on west coast road trip. He can huff and puff all he wants. He’s gonna to be broke in 1 year if he wants to play this game.

In most situations, contract length is a plus, but the length and cost per year makes Simmons’ contract not as appealing because of a combo of on court and off court flaws. It buys Phili time, but some teams will be fine with Simmons contract but others not as much, which also reduces the bidding war.

[kuclas]

I'm not making it seem like he can't play. He can and he is a good player. But hes not a superstar.

As I mentioned in my post above, Harden, AD, Kawhi were all undoubtedly better than Simmons. None of those guys returned a superstar.

I just don't understand how anyone can think that Simmons will.

Contract length man. People keep forgetting the length of a players contract. Simmons had 4 years left. He’s under sixers control.

Harden had 2 year left. Same with kyrie. 4 vs 2 is a huge difference in terms of who has the leverage.

Leonard had one year left. Spurs had even less leverage.

Like I said. No player on competing team (raptors were not good when Vince got traded with 2.5 years left). Sixers are actually good when embiid plays 7-2 this season.

So combine with length of Simmons contract, his age and relatively healthy career (outside of the first year his foot where he could have played) and the back injury that’s all healed feb 2020 injury. and sixers not tanking. Why should they be in a rush to trade him for role players?

If Simmons had 2 years left. Yes. Different priority trying to trade him.

People fail to understand this. Simmons cannot just think he can sit at home and get paid. So he’s faked a mental illness and still getting fine for not even going on west coast road trip. He can huff and puff all he wants. He’s gonna to be broke in 1 year if he wants to play this game.

In most situations, contract length is a plus, but the length and cost per year makes Simmons’ contract not as appealing because of a combo of on court and off court flaws. It buys Phili time, but some teams will be fine with Simmons contract but others not as much, which also reduces the bidding war.

When you have Indiana golden state Portland Minnesota San Antonio Sacramento and even Boston willing to take on Simmons. Those are plenty of teams willing to take on Simmons contract

So the Simmons contract isn’t the issue with teams acquiring Simmons That’s 1/4 of the league already.

They just don’t want to give up any core assets

[Myth]

Contract length man. People keep forgetting the length of a players contract. Simmons had 4 years left. He’s under sixers control.

Harden had 2 year left. Same with kyrie. 4 vs 2 is a huge difference in terms of who has the leverage.

Leonard had one year left. Spurs had even less leverage.

Like I said. No player on competing team (raptors were not good when Vince got traded with 2.5 years left). Sixers are actually good when embiid plays 7-2 this season.

So combine with length of Simmons contract, his age and relatively healthy career (outside of the first year his foot where he could have played) and the back injury that’s all healed feb 2020 injury. and sixers not tanking. Why should they be in a rush to trade him for role players?

If Simmons had 2 years left. Yes. Different priority trying to trade him.

People fail to understand this. Simmons cannot just think he can sit at home and get paid. So he’s faked a mental illness and still getting fine for not even going on west coast road trip. He can huff and puff all he wants. He’s gonna to be broke in 1 year if he wants to play this game.

In most situations, contract length is a plus, but the length and cost per year makes Simmons’ contract not as appealing because of a combo of on court and off court flaws. It buys Phili time, but some teams will be fine with Simmons contract but others not as much, which also reduces the bidding war.

When you have Indiana golden state Portland Minnesota San Antonio Sacramento and even Boston willing to take on Simmons. Those are plenty of teams willing to take on Simmons contract

So the Simmons contract isn’t the issue with teams acquiring Simmons That’s 1/4 of the league already.

They just don’t want to give up any core assets

Sure, but like you said, not willing to give up their core assets. Portland for example has likely become less likely to give up much more than CJ as the Phili situation has become something that they wouldn’t want to experience, and CJ is already viewed as an overpaid player himself.

[GutUNC]

In most situations, contract length is a plus, but the length and cost per year makes Simmons’ contract not as appealing because of a combo of on court and off court flaws. It buys Phili time, but some teams will be fine with Simmons contract but others not as much, which also reduces the bidding war.

When you have Indiana golden state Portland Minnesota San Antonio Sacramento and even Boston willing to take on Simmons. Those are plenty of teams willing to take on Simmons contract

So the Simmons contract isn’t the issue with teams acquiring Simmons That’s 1/4 of the league already.

They just don’t want to give up any core assets

Sure, but like you said, not willing to give up their core assets. Portland for example has likely become less likely to give up much more than CJ as the Phili situation has become something that they wouldn’t want to experience, and CJ is already viewed as an overpaid player himself.

I know it makes for a better bargaining position to say that Philadelphia's current stalemate could transfer to a new place, but there's literally no evidence past or present that says Simmons has a problem with anyone but Sixers management. It should be a clean slate and a great buy low opportunity for a new team. Someone just has to get the limbo bar high enough off the ground for someone to get under.

[Myth]

When you have Indiana golden state Portland Minnesota San Antonio Sacramento and even Boston willing to take on Simmons. Those are plenty of teams willing to take on Simmons contract

So the Simmons contract isn’t the issue with teams acquiring Simmons That’s 1/4 of the league already.

They just don’t want to give up any core assets

Sure, but like you said, not willing to give up their core assets. Portland for example has likely become less likely to give up much more than CJ as the Phili situation has become something that they wouldn’t want to experience, and CJ is already viewed as an overpaid player himself.

I know it makes for a better bargaining position to say that Philadelphia's current stalemate could transfer to a new place, but there's literally no evidence past or present that says Simmons has a problem with anyone but Sixers management. It should be a clean slate and a great buy low opportunity for a new team. Someone just has to get the limbo bar high enough off the ground for someone to get under.

But there was attitude questions coming out of college too. And the way they handled things in general is much less professional in general it really should make teams hesitant. And I don’t mean as a bargaining chip, but as a genuine concern. If Lillard requests a trade, I absolutely would not want a Simmons package anymore because I can’t imagine him ever being happy if he is both in Portland and on a non-contender. I would gamble on him being happy next to Lillard, but not on a retooling team in a city Simmons doesn’t desire. I simply can’t imagine Simmons being happy enough in such a situation to play out his contract, and we can see how bad things can get with an unhappy Simmons partnering with Klutch.

[GutUNC]

Sure, but like you said, not willing to give up their core assets. Portland for example has likely become less likely to give up much more than CJ as the Phili situation has become something that they wouldn’t want to experience, and CJ is already viewed as an overpaid player himself.

I know it makes for a better bargaining position to say that Philadelphia's current stalemate could transfer to a new place, but there's literally no evidence past or present that says Simmons has a problem with anyone but Sixers management. It should be a clean slate and a great buy low opportunity for a new team. Someone just has to get the limbo bar high enough off the ground for someone to get under.

But there was attitude questions coming out of college too. And the way they handled things in general is much less professional in general it really should make teams hesitant. And I don’t mean as a bargaining chip, but as a genuine concern. If Lillard requests a trade, I absolutely would not want a Simmons package anymore because I can’t imagine him ever being happy if he is both in Portland and on a non-contender. I would gamble on him being happy next to Lillard, but not on a retooling team in a city Simmons doesn’t desire. I simply can’t imagine Simmons being happy enough in such a situation to play out his contract, and we can see how bad things can get with an unhappy Simmons partnering with Klutch.

I mean, being allowed to grow his game without the pressures of contending is literally one of the things Klutch said he desired.

[Myth]

I know it makes for a better bargaining position to say that Philadelphia's current stalemate could transfer to a new place, but there's literally no evidence past or present that says Simmons has a problem with anyone but Sixers management. It should be a clean slate and a great buy low opportunity for a new team. Someone just has to get the limbo bar high enough off the ground for someone to get under.

But there was attitude questions coming out of college too. And the way they handled things in general is much less professional in general it really should make teams hesitant. And I don’t mean as a bargaining chip, but as a genuine concern. If Lillard requests a trade, I absolutely would not want a Simmons package anymore because I can’t imagine him ever being happy if he is both in Portland and on a non-contender. I would gamble on him being happy next to Lillard, but not on a retooling team in a city Simmons doesn’t desire. I simply can’t imagine Simmons being happy enough in such a situation to play out his contract, and we can see how bad things can get with an unhappy Simmons partnering with Klutch.

I mean, being allowed to grow his game without the pressures of contending is literally one of the things Klutch said he desired.

And they also said he doesn’t want to go to Portland.

[the_process]

But there was attitude questions coming out of college too. And the way they handled things in general is much less professional in general it really should make teams hesitant. And I don’t mean as a bargaining chip, but as a genuine concern. If Lillard requests a trade, I absolutely would not want a Simmons package anymore because I can’t imagine him ever being happy if he is both in Portland and on a non-contender. I would gamble on him being happy next to Lillard, but not on a retooling team in a city Simmons doesn’t desire. I simply can’t imagine Simmons being happy enough in such a situation to play out his contract, and we can see how bad things can get with an unhappy Simmons partnering with Klutch.

I mean, being allowed to grow his game without the pressures of contending is literally one of the things Klutch said he desired.

And they also said he doesn’t want to go to Portland.

Did they though? Or was that one of those Jason Dumas reported fabrications?

[Myth]

I mean, being allowed to grow his game without the pressures of contending is literally one of the things Klutch said he desired.

And they also said he doesn’t want to go to Portland.

Did they though? Or was that one of those Jason Dumas reported fabrications?

I’ll be honest and say I know nothing of Dumas. I can see from a quick Google search he failed with a draft day prediction of a Simmons trade (but I think it is reasonable to assume they explored trade options) but was the first to call Doc Rivers to the 76ers. What else is out there to show he is not reliable?

[GutUNC]

And they also said he doesn’t want to go to Portland.

Did they though? Or was that one of those Jason Dumas reported fabrications?

I’ll be honest and say I know nothing of Dumas. I can see from a quick Google search he failed with a draft day prediction of a Simmons trade (but I think it is reasonable to assume they explored trade options) but was the first to call Doc Rivers to the 76ers. What else is out there to show he is not reliable?

When he said Klutch was going to pull Maxey out of Philadelphia, too. Maxey quickly shut that down and Dumas retracted.

I have not heard any credible reporting that he would refuse a trade to anywhere. And I think it's very safe to assume that no trade gets signed off on without the team talking to Klutch and hearing that Ben is amenable.

[Myth]

Did they though? Or was that one of those Jason Dumas reported fabrications?

I’ll be honest and say I know nothing of Dumas. I can see from a quick Google search he failed with a draft day prediction of a Simmons trade (but I think it is reasonable to assume they explored trade options) but was the first to call Doc Rivers to the 76ers. What else is out there to show he is not reliable?

When he said Klutch was going to pull Maxey out of Philadelphia, too. Maxey quickly shut that down and Dumas retracted.

I have not heard any credible reporting that he would refuse a trade to anywhere. And I think it's very safe to assume that no trade gets signed off on without the team talking to Klutch and hearing that Ben is amenable.

I do agree that at this point he is desperate enough to sign off on a trade probably about anywhere, but will he be happy enough to play out 4 years of a contract at each place is what I was questioning.

[LightTheBeam]

I can't speak as Morey but in my mind the deal to make is for a decent win-now wing and as many picks as you can get from a team who's not a playoff team. But those picks would then need to be re-routed to another team for the win now guy and since Deal A isn't going anywhere, there's no need to swing that now until you have Deal B in the holster. In the mean time, you hope against hope that a Lillard/Beal type asks out and is attainable, which happens once or twice a year.

So does Barnes + picks count? If not what wing would?

Do you have an example? Because the only example you actually said is hoping that you can get a superstar for Simmons? Which is exactly what you called me out for saying.

[LightTheBeam]

Sure, but like you said, not willing to give up their core assets. Portland for example has likely become less likely to give up much more than CJ as the Phili situation has become something that they wouldn’t want to experience, and CJ is already viewed as an overpaid player himself.

I know it makes for a better bargaining position to say that Philadelphia's current stalemate could transfer to a new place, but there's literally no evidence past or present that says Simmons has a problem with anyone but Sixers management. It should be a clean slate and a great buy low opportunity for a new team. Someone just has to get the limbo bar high enough off the ground for someone to get under.

But there was attitude questions coming out of college too. And the way they handled things in general is much less professional in general it really should make teams hesitant. And I don’t mean as a bargaining chip, but as a genuine concern. If Lillard requests a trade, I absolutely would not want a Simmons package anymore because I can’t imagine him ever being happy if he is both in Portland and on a non-contender. I would gamble on him being happy next to Lillard, but not on a retooling team in a city Simmons doesn’t desire. I simply can’t imagine Simmons being happy enough in such a situation to play out his contract, and we can see how bad things can get with an unhappy Simmons partnering with Klutch.

Also if Lillard ever asked out, its hard to imagine Portland going for Simmons. They haven't been able to get over the hump with Lillard who is by far and away the superior player. So they are going to downgrade to Simmons? That just puts them in no mans land where they aren't good enough to win, and not good enough to outright tank. With Lillard they are a consistent playoff team (which has value), with Simmons they are destined for a 10-12 seed every year.

Simmons will be 26 at the end of this season. Its not like hes some young kid with tons of potential. We know who he is at this point.

Portland would be far better served trying to go for a package including a young stud like Scottie Barnes, some 3 way trade with the Hornets where they get Bridges + or even taking a rebuilding package from GS for all 3 of their young guns, maybe Jordan Poole etc..

[GutUNC]

I can't speak as Morey but in my mind the deal to make is for a decent win-now wing and as many picks as you can get from a team who's not a playoff team. But those picks would then need to be re-routed to another team for the win now guy and since Deal A isn't going anywhere, there's no need to swing that now until you have Deal B in the holster. In the mean time, you hope against hope that a Lillard/Beal type asks out and is attainable, which happens once or twice a year.

So does Barnes + picks count? If not what wing would?

Do you have an example? Because the only example you actually said is hoping that you can get a superstar for Simmons? Which is exactly what you called me out for saying.

Barnes is redundant with Harris so no (unless there's a separate deal with Harris outgoing). They need more of a 2/3 then a 4/3 like Harris.

And I just got done talking about deals centered around Malcolm Brogdon and re-routed Hawks rotation guys so I'm not sure why you keep attributing the bolded part to me. That's obviously best case scenario, but isn't going to happen unless a Beal/Lillard type demands out at some point. I haven't suggested that as a real option.