Davis Bertans for any trash you have, literally any.....

[patman66]

I have to be candid.

I have Bertrans as literally the worst player on a decent money or better contract in the league. I've always had him as a sub MLE guy who had a couple of hot shooting months and then did everything he could to do to cash in on it (like even he knew that this was his absolute peak earning value).

I also didn't like him sitting out the bubble in order to keep his FA value high as the time as well (IMHO).

I don't see any deal with any team that involves him and I was beyond shocked when Dallas actually dealt for him.

Your candidness is just absolute truth. The guy is an utter bum who gave it his all when due for a big deal, and has not done a thing since. I think its fair to assume Dallas could have done the Porzingis-Dinwiddie swap without Bertans, so the question is, why the heck did they get him?

I am pretty sure the wiz would have balked about bertrans not being included. KUZMA was playing well, and rui only made a couple of mill.

[daoneandonly]

I have to be candid.

I have Bertrans as literally the worst player on a decent money or better contract in the league. I've always had him as a sub MLE guy who had a couple of hot shooting months and then did everything he could to do to cash in on it (like even he knew that this was his absolute peak earning value).

I also didn't like him sitting out the bubble in order to keep his FA value high as the time as well (IMHO).

I don't see any deal with any team that involves him and I was beyond shocked when Dallas actually dealt for him.

Your candidness is just absolute truth. The guy is an utter bum who gave it his all when due for a big deal, and has not done a thing since. I think its fair to assume Dallas could have done the Porzingis-Dinwiddie swap without Bertans, so the question is, why the heck did they get him?

I am pretty sure the wiz would have balked about bertrans not being included. KUZMA was playing well, and rui only made a couple of mill.

Maybe so, seems like most people are in that camp so perhaps that is indeed the case. I just cant stand having the guy on my favorite team. I loved seeing him on the Wiz because the Devil's City deserved it.

[Laimbeer]

Zinger has his warts and may be negative value in a vacuum, but on the floor I have him comfortably > Bertans + Dinwiddie. The money is similar. It doesn't make sense on any level, imo.

[Mavrelous]

Zinger has his warts and may be negative value in a vacuum, but on the floor I have him comfortably > Bertans + Dinwiddie. The money is similar. It doesn't make sense on any level, imo.

That's what we all thought as Mavs fans, in reality, what Dinwiddie did in the Mavs the last month and a half is more than whatever KP did in the last season and a half.
KP's potential is sky high and his play at the bubble was huge, almost worthy of the max deal he signed, but the Mavs FO got sick of waiting for him to replicate that between injuries.
The jury is still out on this deal, but what looked like an absolutely horrible deal, looks like what actually saved the Mavs season, Mavs would've been with 5-6 less wins right now without Dinwiddie.
Maybe Dinwiddie will comeback to earth? Maybe KP will finally realize his potential and contribute to winning basketball? It's not clear yet.

[Texas Chuck]

I'm surprised Bertans made 39.5% of his 3's last season, because actually watching him play... he was an awful player last season - painful to watch for the most part.

This pretty much speaks to the point I've been trying (and failing with specific posters) to make. This guy is such a good shooter, that even in a supposed down year, he still makes 40% and provides the spacing that a guy of his pedigree does.

Even this year in Dallas where he's had all kinds of troubles making shots, the defenses remain glued to him. And so Luka and Dinwiddie and Brunson still benefit from that. Doesn't mean the misses aren't a problem, but it does mean he still helps an offense even when not making shots because defenses still absolutely fear leaving him. Dallas is a plus 14 in his minutes so this idea he is killing the team is silly. And during his Wizards tenure, including last year the team was much better with him on the court than off. Spacing is valuable. And it exists even when shots aren't going in. Too many posters don't understand this very basic concept. We saw this when people wrote off Danny Green or Joe Harris. I mean Joe Harris is an absurd shooter who had one bad series and this board immediately went down this same road. It's crazy.

Now to be clear--I think Bertans is terribly overpaid. I think his contract should probably be closer to 3/$15M or so. He's negative value and again the price for Dallas getting off the negative value KP contract. But we are too quick to look at his percentages this year and declare him a total bum. That's nonsense. And next year when he's shooting over 40% again as he very likely will be he will be a solid if badly overpaid bench player for Dallas who can't afford to attach assets to him to get off the deal.

[ThatBoyNick]

The way he completely forgot how to shoot reminds me of Ryno

[Texas Chuck]

Zinger has his warts and may be negative value in a vacuum, but on the floor I have him comfortably > Bertans + Dinwiddie. The money is similar. It doesn't make sense on any level, imo.

I still think this too--though to Dinwiddie's credit and my utter shock, he's been really good for a month in Dallas. The issue for Dallas is you simply can't count on KP and the constant will he, won't he and the different ways Dallas had to play with him versus without him became an issue.

I think KP out is an addition by subtraction move and any contributions from Dinwiddie/Bertans is largely going to be gravy. Powell and Kleber aren't anywhere near the talents KP is, but you know they are going to play most nights(Powell every night) and know exactly what each of them are going to give you. Makes a coach's job way easier when he knows what to expect from his players.

I still don't love the trade, but its hard to look at the short-term results and not at least acknowledge that the Mavs are run by more qualified people than me.

[realEAST]

Dinwiddie has been really good, but for me what really stings is that Raptors deal - Mavericks kept pushing for Trent, and it was a no-go for Toronto, but have they settled for something like Dragic, Boucher, filler (Birch?), even without a pick (McMahon said there was mentions of the pick being involved) I think it would be better than this, both short and long term.

What's probably worse is even after trading with Raptors, Dallas probably could have had flipped Dragic + couple of 2nds for Dinwiddie, given his situation in Washington and perception around the league.

Now, they'll have a really though time rounding that frontcourt with quality Center and forward, especially looking long term, but maybe they manage to work something out with expiring scrubs (BBB) and draft right to player they pick (someone like Mo Bamba maybe, if Magic is willing to part with him). Maybe Nets won't match MLE (6.5 mil) offer for Claxton, but not really a lot of options out there imo.

Fingers crossed though.

[Ruzious]

I'm surprised Bertans made 39.5% of his 3's last season, because actually watching him play... he was an awful player last season - painful to watch for the most part.

This pretty much speaks to the point I've been trying (and failing with specific posters) to make. This guy is such a good shooter, that even in a supposed down year, he still makes 40% and provides the spacing that a guy of his pedigree does.

Even this year in Dallas where he's had all kinds of troubles making shots, the defenses remain glued to him. And so Luka and Dinwiddie and Brunson still benefit from that. Doesn't mean the misses aren't a problem, but it does mean he still helps an offense even when not making shots because defenses still absolutely fear leaving him. Dallas is a plus 14 in his minutes so this idea he is killing the team is silly. And during his Wizards tenure, including last year the team was much better with him on the court than off. Spacing is valuable. And it exists even when shots aren't going in. Too many posters don't understand this very basic concept. We saw this when people wrote off Danny Green or Joe Harris. I mean Joe Harris is an absurd shooter who had one bad series and this board immediately went down this same road. It's crazy.

Now to be clear--I think Bertans is terribly overpaid. I think his contract should probably be closer to 3/$15M or so. He's negative value and again the price for Dallas getting off the negative value KP contract. But we are too quick to look at his percentages this year and declare him a total bum. That's nonsense. And next year when he's shooting over 40% again as he very likely will be he will be a solid if badly overpaid bench player for Dallas who can't afford to attach assets to him to get off the deal.

There's definitely value to him attracting multiple defenders at the 3 point line, and he does a reasonable job moving without the ball to make the defenders move trying to cover him. And he has some smarts about it. Defensively, I think he's less of a disaster playing the 3 than the 4. Physically, he's incredibly soft along with being slow. He can't defend anyone near the basket. If he tries, he'll foul them, so he often won't even try. On the perimeter, at least he's got good size when he's staying in front of perimeter shooters. The most comically bad D he's played is against Pascal Siakam - who sees blood when Bertans defends him - he's both too strong and too quick.

[Apz]

Well, the raptors deal was never on. I mean, If there were a rumour that raptors offered siakam for luka, and mavs said no, its not all of a sudden "oh raptors should have taken that rumoured deal with mavs". If there is no offer that mavs actually said no to, its nothing to keep bringing up. However, if there were an offer from mavs and u think raptors should have said yes, then feel free to bash raptors. Personal opinion, they talked but there were never an offer on the table from either side

[realEAST]

Well, the raptors deal was never on. I mean, If there were a rumour that raptors offered siakam for luka, and mavs said no, its not all of a sudden "oh raptors should have taken that rumoured deal with mavs". If there is no offer that mavs actually said no to, its nothing to keep bringing up. However, if there were an offer from mavs and u think raptors should have said yes, then feel free to bash raptors. Personal opinion, they talked but there were never an offer on the table from either side

There were multiple reports they were in serious talks, and most recent and veritable are ones claiming Raptors were willing to deal for KP, but wouldn't include any of the core pieces, and Mavs were ademant on Trent jr., so that's why the deal fell through. I doubt they see any of Dragic, Boucher and Birch as core pieces, and in my opinion, it would be a better deal.

But I agree, a good part of it is speculation and it is water under the bridge anyway, so it's better to look forward.

After all, the returns on that deal don't look bad so far.

[Swish1906]

You dont trash Bertans after a dozen games.

Mavs need to build him up, give him confidence and hope he turns back into a solid 15-18min roleplayer. Then you have either a deeper rotation or maybe you are able to trade him in a year

[DroseReturnChi]

richuan holmes. he should be huge negative in value now.

[Slim Charless]

Lakers will make Russ available I'm sure.....great option for you guys if you lose Brunson.

[Apz]

Well, the raptors deal was never on. I mean, If there were a rumour that raptors offered siakam for luka, and mavs said no, its not all of a sudden "oh raptors should have taken that rumoured deal with mavs". If there is no offer that mavs actually said no to, its nothing to keep bringing up. However, if there were an offer from mavs and u think raptors should have said yes, then feel free to bash raptors. Personal opinion, they talked but there were never an offer on the table from either side

There were multiple reports they were in serious talks, and most recent and veritable are ones claiming Raptors were willing to deal for KP, but wouldn't include any of the core pieces, and Mavs were ademant on Trent jr., so that's why the deal fell through. I doubt they see any of Dragic, Boucher and Birch as core pieces, and in my opinion, it would be a better deal.

But I agree, a good part of it is speculation and it is water under the bridge anyway, so it's better to look forward.

After all, the returns on that deal don't look bad so far.

Only saw rumors, not reports. And take that package would have been a straight salary dump since they wouldnt been able to resign them i guess, and jusg dont think mavs were intrested. They wanted someone that could play, got dinwiddie, and whatever these boards think of bertans, ive never seen anyone being that tightly guarded wherever he is on offensive half. Which is great for our 3 guards when defense got someone in bertans face even if he is 40 away

[jayjaysee]

Yeah, there has been plenty of three team deals with Russ and Dallas involved posted. I know because I’ve posted them.

But yes, I think it’s fair to guess that Dallas would do;

Bertans, THJ, and filler (Powell+Burke) for anyone in a three team deal.

That’s not hyperbole or an overreaction. I don’t see a combination of 40-50 million dollars of salary on any team that I wouldn’t trade that package for.

Westbrook is such a bad fit but you still have to do it just to make 2023 free agency a possibility.

I know I’m in the minority on that and obviously I’d try to flip Russ anywhere else because it makes Dallas worse next year. But I’d still do it especially since LAL would add value to that swap, and Dallas could follow up else where

[Mike lorenzo]

What does it take to turn it into Randle..?

Bertans/Fournier/Kemba to LAKERS

Westbrook.to.KNICKS

Randle to MAVS

[daoneandonly]

What does it take to turn it into Randle..?

Bertans/Fournier/Kemba to LAKERS

Westbrook.to.KNICKS

Randle to MAVS

My friend, you have to let go of this obsession with Randle, he's not a good fit with the Mavs.

[Godaddycurse]

Yeah, there has been plenty of three team deals with Russ and Dallas involved posted. I know because I’ve posted them.

But yes, I think it’s fair to guess that Dallas would do;

Bertans, THJ, and filler (Powell+Burke) for anyone in a three team deal.

That’s not hyperbole or an overreaction. I don’t see a combination of 40-50 million dollars of salary on any team that I wouldn’t trade that package for.

Westbrook is such a bad fit but you still have to do it just to make 2023 free agency a possibility.

I know I’m in the minority on that and obviously I’d try to flip Russ anywhere else because it makes Dallas worse next year. But I’d still do it especially since LAL would add value to that swap, and Dallas could follow up else where

Bertans + THJ is pretty negative value too and for longer. I don't think lakers will add any value to that swap

[Texas Chuck]

Yeah, there has been plenty of three team deals with Russ and Dallas involved posted. I know because I’ve posted them.

But yes, I think it’s fair to guess that Dallas would do;

Bertans, THJ, and filler (Powell+Burke) for anyone in a three team deal.

That’s not hyperbole or an overreaction. I don’t see a combination of 40-50 million dollars of salary on any team that I wouldn’t trade that package for.

Westbrook is such a bad fit but you still have to do it just to make 2023 free agency a possibility.

I know I’m in the minority on that and obviously I’d try to flip Russ anywhere else because it makes Dallas worse next year. But I’d still do it especially since LAL would add value to that swap, and Dallas could follow up else where

Bertans + THJ is pretty negative value too and for longer. I don't think lakers will add any value to that swap

I don't think the Lakers owe value either. Could argue Dallas does depending on how negative one views Russ.
I don't think the Lakers would be willing to admit trading role players for Russ was a mistake. The Dallas options aren't better than Kuz/KCP/Trez.
I think the Lakers would be better with Timmy/Bertans/Powell than they are with Russ and they should care about on court now more than money later.

I also think Dallas would insist on a 3rd team to give them different players than Russ and for it to make sense for Dallas they would need to be players who made more sense than the players they send out, which makes me think the Lakers would simply cut Dallas out in that scenario--unless maybe specifically it involved a high dollar center, but I don't know who that would even be.