What does it cost for Dallas to dump Bertans

[Darren]

Not worth the costs.

[Apz]

You want to do a Fournier - Bertans swap? Why would the Knicks do that? You're sending out worse junk here.

And why would mavs send out the best player, and pay a 1st, and take on 18m extra salary? Now THAT doesnt make sense, imo and from earlier posters replies

Fournier makes sense for the Mavs. Bertans makes NO sense for the Knicks. Even if you attach pick 26 you are asking the Knicks to pay 49 million for a player they can't use. You think you're going to diversify your offense sending out Bertans somewhere? It will cost you more than one pick to move him for something useful. Upthread it was suggested by hugepatsfan you could have to pay 3 firsts to unload him. And you're crying about losing Kleber and Powell? I have 3 picks > 1 pick + Kleber + Powell. I think I'm being nice to you. Knicks fans are ready to shoot me btw.

How does fournier make sense for mavs? Im really curious, cause i cant see it. They already got their version but better in thj. Only thing a bertans fournier swap does is making mavs smaller

[Scoot McGroot]

McDermott got 40/3 last off season, Bertans isn't worth MLE money? I'd gladly dump him for #26, but anything more isn't realistic.

McDermott has had his solid shooting seasons more recent, has shown to be not a waste in a team defensive system, more mobility, and is paid less than Bertans. He's going to have a lot more value right now.

In terms of contracts, its definitely a matter of Bertans coming off a super cold season, while Doug would be coming off a hot shooting season. Doug might get his same money. Bertans might be lucky to get a full MLE right now? Just the situation as they've just shown.

[Scoot McGroot]

And why would mavs send out the best player, and pay a 1st, and take on 18m extra salary? Now THAT doesnt make sense, imo and from earlier posters replies

Fournier makes sense for the Mavs. Bertans makes NO sense for the Knicks. Even if you attach pick 26 you are asking the Knicks to pay 49 million for a player they can't use. You think you're going to diversify your offense sending out Bertans somewhere? It will cost you more than one pick to move him for something useful. Upthread it was suggested by hugepatsfan you could have to pay 3 firsts to unload him. And you're crying about losing Kleber and Powell? I have 3 picks > 1 pick + Kleber + Powell. I think I'm being nice to you. Knicks fans are ready to shoot me btw.

How does fournier make sense for mavs? Im really curious, cause i cant see it. They already got their version but better in thj. Only thing a bertans fournier swap does is making mavs smaller

Fournier is better than Bertans, for sure. I'd rather trust Fournier to play 3/4 than Bertans. Neither can, but I'd rather have Fournier on the court. Plus, Fournier's last year is a team option, so Fournier at 2/$36m owed versus Bertans at 2/$38m owed makes it a simple choice. Take the better player every time. Now, of course, the deal might not make sense on the rest of the valuation, but turning Bertans into Fournier would cost something, for sure.

[Mavrelous]

McDermott got 40/3 last off season, Bertans isn't worth MLE money? I'd gladly dump him for #26, but anything more isn't realistic.

McDermott has had his solid shooting seasons more recent, has shown to be not a waste in a team defensive system, more mobility, and is paid less than Bertans. He's going to have a lot more value right now.

In terms of contracts, its definitely a matter of Bertans coming off a super cold season, while Doug would be coming off a hot shooting season. Doug might get his same money. Bertans might be lucky to get a full MLE right now? Just the situation as they've just shown.

All Bertans years except this one have been good years, this year he started off in dysfunctional WAS and continued in a totally new team, where people weren't used to playing with him.
Bertans is bigger and his release point is crazy high, his advanced stats are much better McBuckets except this year, and even this year, in DAL he has much better VORP WS and BPM than McBuckets.
I'm not selling anyone Bertans at this contract, but if Doug McDermott get 40/3 in the open market, Bertans getting 30/3 is a fair assessment, he's not getting that, he's getting 50/3 with last year partially guaranteed at 5 millions.
DAL is paying 2 1st to dump a guy getting 50/3 instead of 30/3.

[Godaddycurse]

McDermott got 40/3 last off season, Bertans isn't worth MLE money? I'd gladly dump him for #26, but anything more isn't realistic.

McDermott has had his solid shooting seasons more recent, has shown to be not a waste in a team defensive system, more mobility, and is paid less than Bertans. He's going to have a lot more value right now.

In terms of contracts, its definitely a matter of Bertans coming off a super cold season, while Doug would be coming off a hot shooting season. Doug might get his same money. Bertans might be lucky to get a full MLE right now? Just the situation as they've just shown.

All Bertans years except this one have been good years, this year he started off in dysfunctional WAS and continued in a totally new team, where people weren't used to playing with him.
Bertans is bigger and his release point is crazy high, his advanced stats are much better McBuckets except this year, and even this year, in DAL he has much better VORP WS and BPM than McBuckets.
I'm not selling anyone Bertans at this contract, but if Doug McDermott get 40/3 in the open market, Bertans getting 30/3 is a fair assessment, he's not getting that, he's getting 50/3 with last year partially guaranteed at 5 millions.
DAL is paying 2 1st to dump a guy getting 50/3 instead of 30/3.

McDermott is the high end of his comp. Low end would be someone like Niang, who makes like 4M. Full MLE would suggest he should be your 6-7th man like Bullock was. Mcdermott got more to be a starter in SAS. Not sure why we are comparing Bertans to him. Bertans is more like a 9-10th man like Niang should be imo (which is his role on Dallas - 10-15 mpg).

Kleber
Powell
Doncic
THJ
DFS
Bullock
Dinwiddie
Brunson

If he is able to play himself to be the 6-7th man in dallas' rotation then i think you have more clout with your argument.

[Monky15]

Bertans to Utah for Conley and then Gay into their TPE.
Jazz are right near the LT threshold after this and the Mavs still have some TPE left if there is another player the Jazz want to dump to get fully under.

Mavs add talent and insurance for if Brunson walks, Conley will be easier to trade with #26 for someone better fitting also.

[Mavrelous]

McDermott is the high end of his comp. Low end would be someone like Niang, who makes like 4M. Full MLE would suggest he should be your 6-7th man like Bullock was. Mcdermott got more to be a starter in SAS. Not sure why we are comparing Bertans to him. Bertans is more like a 9-10th man like Niang should be imo (which is his role on Dallas - 10-15 mpg).

Kleber
Powell
Doncic
THJ
DFS
Bullock
Dinwiddie
Brunson

If he is able to play himself to be the 6-7th man in dallas' rotation then i think you have more clout with your argument.

I haven't watched Niang, I can't comment, but from your answer you're simply looking at numbers without looking at the game.
There is a huge difference between players like: DRIII, THJ, Bertans, McDermott, Harris, etc.. and guys like Bullock, DFS and Maxi (all 3 are 40% shooters) Bertans takes split second to release, needs 3 feet of space, and shoots while stopping from curling behind a screen, DFS, Bullock and Maxi takes them nearly a second to release and need more space, and shoot only from stationary position, this is simply different category of players, there is also a huge difference in how these players are defended, just watching the games will tell you immediately who is a shooter and who is a guy who can shoot it.

[Godaddycurse]

McDermott is the high end of his comp. Low end would be someone like Niang, who makes like 4M. Full MLE would suggest he should be your 6-7th man like Bullock was. Mcdermott got more to be a starter in SAS. Not sure why we are comparing Bertans to him. Bertans is more like a 9-10th man like Niang should be imo (which is his role on Dallas - 10-15 mpg).

Kleber
Powell
Doncic
THJ
DFS
Bullock
Dinwiddie
Brunson

If he is able to play himself to be the 6-7th man in dallas' rotation then i think you have more clout with your argument.

I haven't watched Niang, I can't comment, but from your answer you're simply looking at numbers without looking at the game.
There is a huge difference between players like: DRIII, THJ, Bertans, McDermott, Harris, etc.. and guys like Bullock, DFS and Maxi (all 3 are 40% shooters) Bertans takes split second to release, needs 3 feet of space, and shoots while stopping from curling behind a screen, DFS, Bullock and Maxi takes them nearly a second to release and need more space, and shoot only from stationary position, this is simply different category of players, there is also a huge difference in how these players are defended, just watching the games will tell you immediately who is a shooter and who is a guy who can shoot it.

I dont care how long they take to shoot though. I'm saying a player's salary is correlated to his role/minutes played. If you are saying Bertans deserves full MLE then he should be playing like a 6-7th man. Very few teams willingly pay their 9-10th man MLE money.

Why do we consider THJ/Hield/Robinson negative value? Because they were signed to be a starting guard/wing sniper but they ended up failing to live up to that role and got benched as a result. Nobody wants to pay that much money (18+) to a bench player, let alone a 9-10th man that Bertans was last year

[Mavrelous]

I dont care how long they take to shoot though. I'm saying a player's salary is correlated to his role/minutes played. If you are saying Bertans deserves full MLE then he should be playing like a 6-7th man. Very few teams willingly pay their 9-10th man MLE money.

Why do we consider THJ/Hield/Robinson negative value? Because they were signed to be a starting guard/wing sniper but they ended up failing to live up to that role and got benched as a result. Nobody wants to pay that much money (18+) to a bench player, let alone a 9-10th man that Bertans was last year

you don't care, but GMs do, there's a reason SAS went to McDermott instead of Niang, one of them is that they knew the kind of defense their guards would see with Niang instead of McDermott, this is very relevant to the valuation of a player.
The reason he didn't play is that he's a new comer, and a bad fit, both Bertans and Luka were mercilessly targeted on defense, if there was a rim protector behind them, it would've been totally different story, Kidd could afford to not play Bertans, he couldn't afford not playing Luka, but a team relying on defense like DAL, who also didn't have rim protector, couldn't leave 2-3 holes on the perimeter.
You may value Bertans as much as you want, but claiming he's 4/yr player is false, there is no precedent for a player of his calibre signed at this money, but there is a market for tall, high % shooters in this league, who are also bad at defense.

[ZombieKilla]

I think a deal like this is easier to do after next season, but Houston strikes me as the team that should be looking for say a 1st and 2nd to take on Bertans (in exchange for Gordon or Wood) because they're rebuilding, miles away from contending for even the play-in and are out future picks from the Westbrook deal.

There is zero chance that they would trade Wood/Gordon for Bertans without Dallas adding a lot of assets.
I doubt they would even trade Wall for him.
The cap space they would have just by letting Wall expire is more valuable than a single first.
And they aren't out of picks.
They have 9 first round picks in the next 6 years (thanks to Brooklyn).

[Texas Chuck]

I tried to tell you OP

[Apz]

I think a deal like this is easier to do after next season, but Houston strikes me as the team that should be looking for say a 1st and 2nd to take on Bertans (in exchange for Gordon or Wood) because they're rebuilding, miles away from contending for even the play-in and are out future picks from the Westbrook deal.

There is zero chance that they would trade Wood/Gordon for Bertans without Dallas adding a lot of assets.
I doubt they would even trade Wall for him.
The cap space they would have just by letting Wall expire is more valuable than a single first.
And they aren't out of picks.
They have 9 first round picks in the next 6 years (thanks to Brooklyn).

If they wouldnt trade wall for him its no wonder they are where they are. Not that mavs would do it anyway

[BeiBeau]

I tried to tell you OP

Yeah it sounds like you were dead right. Hopefully some dumb GM doesn’t think the same as everyone on here and we can move him.

[Rockazoids]

Bertans (3) --> Fournier (3)
Kleber (1) --> Noel (2)
Powell (1) --> Burks (2)

I have Fournier more versatile/useful to the Mavs, and Noel's rim protection as beneficial to the Mavs. I have Burks with Fournier helping diversify a Luka-centric offense because he also adds playmaking with Fournier. Mavs are a better team after the deal.

I have Bertans duplicative with Randle and Toppin as far as position. So the Knicks need to shave off the extra year of Noel and Burks here.

20 million bucks off Bertans 49 million marks him at 3 years 29 million. So he's a below MLE player the Knicks don't need, but they should value the 20 million cap relief for next season for something they do need.

Add pick 26 for the uncertainty in that vs. certainty Dallas diversifies the offense and adds rim protection.

Fournier last year 24/25 is TO
Noel last year 23/24 is TO
Burk last year 23/24 it TO
So NY is not Shaving nothing off.

[ZombieKilla]

I think a deal like this is easier to do after next season, but Houston strikes me as the team that should be looking for say a 1st and 2nd to take on Bertans (in exchange for Gordon or Wood) because they're rebuilding, miles away from contending for even the play-in and are out future picks from the Westbrook deal.

There is zero chance that they would trade Wood/Gordon for Bertans without Dallas adding a lot of assets.
I doubt they would even trade Wall for him.
The cap space they would have just by letting Wall expire is more valuable than a single first.
And they aren't out of picks.
They have 9 first round picks in the next 6 years (thanks to Brooklyn).

If they wouldnt trade wall for him its no wonder they are where they are. Not that mavs would do it anyway

Buying out Wall and having $47 M in salary cap space after this season >>>>>>>>> Bertan's contract.

Any day, every day.