Who wants the Hornets?

[penbeast0]

Why would Washington want to pay that kind of money for another undersized shooting guard that won't get many minutes with a healthy Beal and two recently acquired PGs? Barton at least can play the 3 against some teams; Rozier has no role on the Wiz unless someone gets injured.

Same reason why I think that if Russell Westbrook were to become a FA that the Wiz would have interest in him. Washington isn't so deep with talent that they're going to turn down talent.

The problem is that Washington is indeed deep with solid, don't move the needle type, legit NBA guys. We don't have the top end stars and our young players seem to be more solid players without the really high ceilings. Neither Rozier nor current Westbrook are guys that are going to have a breakout season; neither fit well with the current roster, both are expensive for what they do.

You could add 1st rounders to take one of them and take back a solid pro like a Kyle Kuzma or Will Barton type but for whatever reason, the Wizards are not interested in trading current decent players for a roll the dice chance at future stars thinking they can compete at the level the ownership thinks will maximize their return with Porzingis and Beal as the stars and complementary talent around them. The trouble is that Rozier isn't a good fit with Beal plus all the other issues I mentioned making the Wiz a bad destination for him.

[shangrila]

Why would Hornets part with PJ?

Are they going to match what he can get on the open market?

Yeah I expect they would. Who else should they spend money on.

I wonder if the Bridges situation has made them anymore gun shy than typical of extending someone early.

[Rich4114]

In the spirit of not tanking and instead finding a viable running mate for LaMelo, what about Jordan Poole? Will GSW plan to sign him for what he wants given their tax/cap situation or might they be interested in moving him for something they can invest in down the road plus expirings? Not sure if there’s possible interest or a move there to be made but thought I’d ask here.

Would Rozier or Poole be coming off of the bench?

Rozier is moved in this scenario so Poole starts next to LaMelo. Idk if GSW would or could take Terry but he’d be excellent as a 6th man type.

[puppa bear]

Pj Washignton - I'm not sure. Maybe the Nuggets or Grizzles

Terry Rozier - Heat or Mavericks

Gordan Haywood - Maybe the Heat. The Knicks might be interested.

Miami fan, here. Ironic that the one guy Miami needs you don't have us interested in. The two guys we have no need for, you think we'd want.

Miami would push for Washington. We've been linked to him for awhile, now. Not sure how much we'd give, but we'd like to have him.

100% agree. PJ is the name that stands out here - we were linked to him at the deadline, and fits the heck out of what Spo wants from a PF. In our system I think he’s grow and flourish even more.

Would you do the deal proposed by NYG?

I think Miami would offer a first or Jovic for PJ washington

Oubre and Washington for Robinson, Jovic and Conditional '23 1st?

The conditional nature of the pick is likely moot, and we’re aiming for the ECF again. PJ likely helps us strengthen our weakest spot, at the cost of someone who may be out of the rotation come PO time and another who won’t crack it for at least a year (though I was super pumped when we pick Jovic - like I was with PA - and it would hurt to see another player be dealt only to get more PT and show out).

Oubre doesn’t sterile me as a Heat player, but who knows what a season in our system can do worse case, he walks and we get breathing space for Herro’s extension (& now PJs).

[Resistance]

In the spirit of not tanking and instead finding a viable running mate for LaMelo, what about Jordan Poole? Will GSW plan to sign him for what he wants given their tax/cap situation or might they be interested in moving him for something they can invest in down the road plus expirings? Not sure if there’s possible interest or a move there to be made but thought I’d ask here.

Would Rozier or Poole be coming off of the bench?

Rozier is moved in this scenario so Poole starts next to LaMelo. Idk if GSW would or could take Terry but he’d be excellent as a 6th man type.

Could?
It depends on how the contract situation is handled with Poole.

Would?
I don't know.

Is there a limit on how much Charlotte should pay Poole on the first year of his contract or give him the Max?

********************************************
Read and then ask your questions.
*******************************************

42. What is restricted free agency?

In order to make their free agent a restricted free agent, a team must submit a qualifying offer to the player between the day following the last game of the NBA Finals and June 29. The qualifying offer is a standing offer for a one-year guaranteed contract, which becomes a regular contact if the player decides to sign it. This ensures that the team does not gain the right of first refusal without offering a contract themselves. The amount of the qualifying offer depends on the situation:

* For players on rookie "scale" contracts the qualifying offer amount is based on the player's draft position, and is set in the rookie scale (see question number 47).

* For players coming off Two-Way contracts where the player is no longer eligible to sign another Two-Way contract1, the qualifying offer is a standard NBA contract with the minimum salary based on years of service, with at least the Two-Way G-League amount guaranteed.

* For all other players coming off Two-Way contracts, the qualifying offer is a Two-Way contract, for the standard Two-Way salary, with $50,000 protected.

* For all other players, the qualifying offer must be for 125% of the player's previous salary, or the player's minimum salary (see question number 22) plus $200,000, whichever is greater.

However, a player coming off a standard NBA contract (not a Two-Way contract) may qualify for a higher or lower qualifying offer based on whether or not he met the "starter criteria" in the previous season, or in the average of the previous two seasons. The starter criteria are based on starting at least 41 games or playing at least 2,000 minutes in the regular season.

* If the player was drafted with picks 10-30 and met the starter criteria, his qualifying offer equals the amount of the qualifying offer2 applicable to the ninth pick in the same draft class.

* If a second round pick or undrafted player met the starter criteria following his second or third season in the league, his qualifying offer equals the amount of the qualifying offer applicable to the 21st pick in the first round of the draft class whose rookie scale contract is now finishing3, if this amount is higher than the qualifying offer he otherwise would have received.

* If the player was drafted with picks 1-14 and did not meet the starter criteria, his qualifying offer can be no higher than the amount of the qualifying offer2 applicable to the 15th pick in the same draft class.

A qualifying offer automatically expires on October 1, unless it is extended by the team (which is rarely done). A qualifying offer cannot be extended past March 1. If the deadline passes and the qualifying offer is neither withdrawn nor accepted, the player continues to be a restricted free agent. The team and player are free to negotiate a new contract after the qualifying offer expires -- the deadline only affects the player's ability to accept his qualifying offer.

If the player is coming off the fourth year of his rookie scale contract, then in addition to a qualifying offer, his team can also submit a maximum qualifying offer. A maximum qualifying offer is for five seasons at the maximum salary with 8% annual raises. It can contain no options, ETOs or bonuses of any kind, and must be fully guaranteed. When a team submits a maximum qualifying offer (in essence "stepping up" with a maximum contract offer before the player hits the free agent market), it places a more stringent requirement on other teams' offer sheets (see below).

A player can elect to accept his qualifying offer and play the following season under its terms. This is sometimes done in order to become an unrestricted free agent the following summer (see question number 44).

When a restricted free agent wants to sign with another team, the player and team sign an offer sheet, the principal terms of which the original team is given two days to match.4 The offer sheet must be for at least two seasons (not including option years), and a standard NBA contract (not a Two-Way contract). If the player's prior team also submitted a maximum qualifying offer, then the offer sheet must be for at least three seasons (not including option years). If the player's original team exercises its right of first refusal within two days (by issuing a First Refusal Exercise Notice), the player is then under contract to his original team, at the principal terms of the offer sheet (but not the non-principal terms). If the player's original team does not exercise its right of first refusal within two days (or provides written notice that it is declining its right of first refusal), the player is deemed to be under contract with the new team.

If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet. They also can't trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 92). A restricted free agent's resulting contract (whether with the new team or the contract is matched by the player's prior team) cannot be amended in any manner for one year.

Poole

2023-24 Contract details by year 24 QO: $5,813,085
Qualifying

[BlazersBroncos]

I really think CHA should tank and sell the vets. This draft class is 'every 15-20 years good' in the Top-2 and the next few guys are not bad consolation prizes. They got dealt a bum hand w/ Miles, tanking would be totally understandable IMO.

Terry Rozier for Davis Bertans, Josh Green, 2025 LP FRP
Gordon Hayward for Kevin Love, Grab Bag of SRPs (3-4)

Maybe cash in on PJ if you dont want to pay him. Cross your fingers for Vic of Scoot.

[Michaellam1987]

Just throwing something out there...

Phoenix Suns get:
PJ Washington
Gordon Hayward

Charlotte Hornets get:
Duncan Robinson
Dario Saric
Landry Shamet
Nikola Jovic
Conditional 2023 Phoenix Suns First Round Draft Pick

Miami Heat get:
Jae Crowder
Torrey Craig

It is basically impossible for MIA to just use Jovic to dump Robinson's bad contract, let along to upgrade to Crowder, who is an expiring contract. The value is way too good for MIA. For PHX, it is too big of a risk to acquire Hayward. For CHA, the value is there, and closer to a fair value deal.

[Henesey]

Not just because Green slapped Poole…

To Knicks: Green
=Thibs gets his defensive bull dog and more cap flexibility.

To Hornets: Randle + Baldwin (2022 1st) + Moody + at least 23 Dallas 1st via Knicks
=Randle can play hero ball and try to regain value outside NY, plus youth and pick.

To Warriors: Washington + Oubre Jr + Plumlee
=PJ can be PF of future, plus get expiring bench depth.

That's not great for the warriors, they don't get much cap relief and give up two assets that I would value over anything they are getting in return plus they take Oubre Jr back after his poor run there in 21-22.

Just questioning your cap relief statement…

Trade results in 4M saved, which for Warriors multiplier is like 12M.

PJ is a RFA going on 2nd contract. That will be less to much less than Green and what he will demand and ultimatum Warriors for during negotiations.

Oubre and Plumlee are expiring deals who drop off when Wiggins, Poole, and PJ need to get paid.

Cap flexibility this provides in spades.

12m saved for an organization valued at $5.6bn is "not much" in my eyes before you even consider how they've operated over the past couple of years.

If the return for Green and Moody was only PJ Washington plus two players who wouldn't make the rotation, Wouldn't they be better riding out the Green contract considering they are on the back of a title?

[Realtalk420]

IF Hornets decide to tank and they can’t get a first for Rozier (in this case viewed as a negative or neutral at best) and simply want to shed money, how desperate does this look:

Bertans, J. Green, 2nd round (or 2) for Rozier.

You could add Plumlee and Powell if that somehow helps.
Rozier is owed over 90mil, Bertans+Green around half that.
Would probably be fair to include a 1st rounder from Mavs but...you know, Dallas doesn’t want to include 1st rounders.
But yeah, Hornets would have to be really desperate and Rozier viewed as a negative.

[Wolveswin]

To Heat: Rozier + PJ (plus Heat under tax)

To Lakers: Lowry + Oubre Jr. + Plumlee

To Hornets: Westbrook (buyout) + 2x Lakers Filler + Jovic + Heat 1st + Lakers 1st

Hornets awesome tank trade. Play all the kids, Hayward comes back slow from injury, load manage him tremendously.

Williams
Jones
Jovic
Bouknight
Ball

That is easily earning 14% chance at Victor or Scoot.

That is a good looking Heat roster too.

Bam
PJ
Butler (ball handler)
Herro
Rozier or Dipo (other 6th man)

Worry about paying PJ and Herro next offseason, which maybe easier to move Robinson with one less year on deal (plus Dipo moves on for bigger deal).

[jbk1234]

What happened to CHA other than Bridges (terrible)? I think PJ might be among the most underrated players in the NBA and, maybe, he jumps into Bridges' void and has a career year. IF Hayward is healthy and contributing on a high level and Mark Williams plays well...they could be better this year than last...unless I'm missing some CHA news.

Also, as bad as the Bridges situation is, maybe he gets cleared (settles quickly and as quietly as possible given the optics), eats a suspension, gives the right interviews, says the right things (and means it)...maybe he's back sooner rather than later. Not rooting for him, I HATE the story, but reality is - he's not off the planet.

I mean they weren't that good. They were the 10th seed and got run out of the gym in the play-in game. When a team like that loses one of their best players, they're a bad team.

[Monky15]

I think PJ could be a good fit in Washington next to Zinger.
Oubre, Washington, Denver pick for Avdija, Barton?

Wizard still have Kuzma, Kispert at 3 and Rui backing up 4. The Barton - Oubre swap is in there to keep the Wiz from the LT.
Hornets get a more perimeter oriented glue guy. Should fit fine with Ball, Rozier.

Said it before, Richards and a 2nd or two to Minny for Naz Reid.
Minny get something for Reid before he leaves at the end of the season. (I'm assuming he will want to get minutes somewhere)
Hornets get a C that can soak up half the minutes there and should fit with their young string bean players.

[eitanr]

Would Rozier or Poole be coming off of the bench?

Rozier is moved in this scenario so Poole starts next to LaMelo. Idk if GSW would or could take Terry but he’d be excellent as a 6th man type.

Could?
It depends on how the contract situation is handled with Poole.

Would?
I don't know.

Is there a limit on how much Charlotte should pay Poole on the first year of his contract or give him the Max?

********************************************
Read and then ask your questions.
*******************************************

42. What is restricted free agency?

In order to make their free agent a restricted free agent, a team must submit a qualifying offer to the player between the day following the last game of the NBA Finals and June 29. The qualifying offer is a standing offer for a one-year guaranteed contract, which becomes a regular contact if the player decides to sign it. This ensures that the team does not gain the right of first refusal without offering a contract themselves. The amount of the qualifying offer depends on the situation:

* For players on rookie "scale" contracts the qualifying offer amount is based on the player's draft position, and is set in the rookie scale (see question number 47).

* For players coming off Two-Way contracts where the player is no longer eligible to sign another Two-Way contract1, the qualifying offer is a standard NBA contract with the minimum salary based on years of service, with at least the Two-Way G-League amount guaranteed.

* For all other players coming off Two-Way contracts, the qualifying offer is a Two-Way contract, for the standard Two-Way salary, with $50,000 protected.

* For all other players, the qualifying offer must be for 125% of the player's previous salary, or the player's minimum salary (see question number 22) plus $200,000, whichever is greater.

However, a player coming off a standard NBA contract (not a Two-Way contract) may qualify for a higher or lower qualifying offer based on whether or not he met the "starter criteria" in the previous season, or in the average of the previous two seasons. The starter criteria are based on starting at least 41 games or playing at least 2,000 minutes in the regular season.

* If the player was drafted with picks 10-30 and met the starter criteria, his qualifying offer equals the amount of the qualifying offer2 applicable to the ninth pick in the same draft class.

* If a second round pick or undrafted player met the starter criteria following his second or third season in the league, his qualifying offer equals the amount of the qualifying offer applicable to the 21st pick in the first round of the draft class whose rookie scale contract is now finishing3, if this amount is higher than the qualifying offer he otherwise would have received.

* If the player was drafted with picks 1-14 and did not meet the starter criteria, his qualifying offer can be no higher than the amount of the qualifying offer2 applicable to the 15th pick in the same draft class.

A qualifying offer automatically expires on October 1, unless it is extended by the team (which is rarely done). A qualifying offer cannot be extended past March 1. If the deadline passes and the qualifying offer is neither withdrawn nor accepted, the player continues to be a restricted free agent. The team and player are free to negotiate a new contract after the qualifying offer expires -- the deadline only affects the player's ability to accept his qualifying offer.

If the player is coming off the fourth year of his rookie scale contract, then in addition to a qualifying offer, his team can also submit a maximum qualifying offer. A maximum qualifying offer is for five seasons at the maximum salary with 8% annual raises. It can contain no options, ETOs or bonuses of any kind, and must be fully guaranteed. When a team submits a maximum qualifying offer (in essence "stepping up" with a maximum contract offer before the player hits the free agent market), it places a more stringent requirement on other teams' offer sheets (see below).

A player can elect to accept his qualifying offer and play the following season under its terms. This is sometimes done in order to become an unrestricted free agent the following summer (see question number 44).

When a restricted free agent wants to sign with another team, the player and team sign an offer sheet, the principal terms of which the original team is given two days to match.4 The offer sheet must be for at least two seasons (not including option years), and a standard NBA contract (not a Two-Way contract). If the player's prior team also submitted a maximum qualifying offer, then the offer sheet must be for at least three seasons (not including option years). If the player's original team exercises its right of first refusal within two days (by issuing a First Refusal Exercise Notice), the player is then under contract to his original team, at the principal terms of the offer sheet (but not the non-principal terms). If the player's original team does not exercise its right of first refusal within two days (or provides written notice that it is declining its right of first refusal), the player is deemed to be under contract with the new team.

If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet. They also can't trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 92). A restricted free agent's resulting contract (whether with the new team or the contract is matched by the player's prior team) cannot be amended in any manner for one year.

Poole

2023-24 Contract details by year 24 QO: $5,813,085
Qualifying

If Charlotte even sniffs such a scenario they should go all out for it. Probably need to prove guys like Hayward are healthy. I don't see how salaries match though unless it is via a sign and trade.

[R-DAWG]

I think a lot of teams would want Terry Rozier, but it's a challenge to send out enough salary without giving up a rotation piece. In a lot of ways, his value should be similar to Brogdon - who yielded a protected 1st rd pick from a contender and required taking back a manageable negative contract in Theiss. Problem is, there aren't a ton of situations where you have a contender who doesn't owe any future picks and has the non rotation salary to take on Rozier.

Miami is interesting because they can flip Lowry and their 2023 1st for Rozier. It creates wiggle room for them under the tax and gets them younger, but it's a toss up at this point if Rozier is better than Lowry and Miami takes on long term money in exchange for short term savings. Dallas owes a pick so hard to see them giving up another one in the future without getting a difference making star in return. Same with Washington.

I think it's more likely that Charlotte looks to go all-in for the play-in, and try to trade for a John Collins or Julius Randle to team with LaMelo.

[the_process]

Seems to me like Charlotte needs Tobias Harris.

[Resistance]

If Charlotte even sniffs such a scenario they should go all out for it. Probably need to prove guys like Hayward are healthy. I don't see how salaries match though unless it is via a sign and trade.

PJ Washington will need a new contract and maintaining enough Cap Space so they are a viable candidate to present an Offer Sheet to Poole might be tricky.

When Rich4114 comes back to continue the conversation, I will go into more details about what pursuing Poole will involve.

[Rich4114]

If Charlotte even sniffs such a scenario they should go all out for it. Probably need to prove guys like Hayward are healthy. I don't see how salaries match though unless it is via a sign and trade.

PJ Washington will need a new contract and maintaining enough Cap Space so they are a viable candidate to present an Offer Sheet to Poole might be tricky.

When Rich4114 comes back to continue the conversation, I will go into more details about what pursuing Poole will involve.

Rich4114 has returned!

I did some stats comparisons on Poole vs Terry and it’s remarkable how similar they are. I know that doesn’t tell the whole story considering the variance in rosters and coaching though. I look at Poole as having a tremendous amount of upside as a featured starting guard and one thing he does better than Terry is get to the line plus he’s like 92%. Terry has a slight edge in a few other areas.

Anyway, is the Poole thing a possibility given the recent news and his pending contract situation?

[Resistance]

If Charlotte even sniffs such a scenario they should go all out for it. Probably need to prove guys like Hayward are healthy. I don't see how salaries match though unless it is via a sign and trade.

PJ Washington will need a new contract and maintaining enough Cap Space so they are a viable candidate to present an Offer Sheet to Poole might be tricky.

When Rich4114 comes back to continue the conversation, I will go into more details about what pursuing Poole will involve.

Rich4114 has returned!

I did some stats comparisons on Poole vs Terry and it’s remarkable how similar they are. I know that doesn’t tell the whole story considering the variance in rosters and coaching though. I look at Poole as having a tremendous amount of upside as a featured starting guard and one thing he does better than Terry is get to the line plus he’s like 92%. Terry has a slight edge in a few other areas.

Anyway, is the Poole thing a possibility given the recent news and his pending contract situation?

Charlotte 2023-24

Gordon Hayward........$31,500,000
Terry Rozier..............$23,205,221
LaMelo Ball..............$10,900,635
Cody Martin...............$7,560,000

James Bouknight.........$4,570,080
Mark Williams.............$3,908,160
Kai Jones..................$3,047,880
JT Thor.....................$1,836,096

Cap Holds
2023 First..................$3,400,000

PJ Washington...........$17,425,306
Jalen McDaniels...........$1,805,205

Unfilled Roster Spot
Min Salary..................$1,102,928

Unknown
Bridges................................$0
________________________________
............................$110,261,511


With a Salary Cap of $134 Million, Charlotte would have about $23.7 million available for a first year salary to present to Poole in an Offer Sheet. So slightly more than what they would be paying Rozier. The numbers for the Team Salary above will change depending on things such as

* The exact placement/slot of the 2023 Draft Pick and the subsequent Cap Hold post draft
* Something more definite on the contract for PJ Washington
* Resolution on the situation with Bridges

During the early part of the offseason, speculation was that it might be possible to pry Poole away from Golden State if the first year salary was somewhat over $20 million. With Herro no longer being a possible RFA next Summer (2023) and the remaining pool of Free Agents and probable Restricted Free Agents being somewhat blah, it might take a first year salary of $25 million or higher to pry Poole away from Golden State.

If Poole signs an Offer Sheet with Charlotte and the first year salary is $23.7 million, I would expect Golden State to match/accept that contract.

Once Poole signs an Offer Sheet, the opportunity for Golden State to do a Sign & Trade disappears.

[Michaellam1987]

IF Hornets decide to tank and they can’t get a first for Rozier (in this case viewed as a negative or neutral at best) and simply want to shed money, how desperate does this look:

Bertans, J. Green, 2nd round (or 2) for Rozier.

You could add Plumlee and Powell if that somehow helps.
Rozier is owed over 90mil, Bertans+Green around half that.
Would probably be fair to include a 1st rounder from Mavs but...you know, Dallas doesn’t want to include 1st rounders.
But yeah, Hornets would have to be really desperate and Rozier viewed as a negative.

There will be better offer for Rozier rather than taking on Bertans bad contract

[amcoolio]

Charlotte can fix this quickly if they find takers for Hayward, Rozier and Oubre, let Clifford go (just chalk it up to an unexpected tank, give the reign to one of the young developmental assistant coaches), and Kupchak retires.

I got on my knees and BEGGED them to take Eason in the draft. I knew he was what we needed. They brought him in multiple times. He said he wanted to be here. I was ecstatic that he lasted til pick 13. I thought for sure that would be the pick. Then Kupchak made the trade and gave the most idiotic reason ever..."we have too many young players to develop."

Well right now Eason would be our second best player on the freaking team. Its unforgivable, and this franchise is done until Kupchak and Clifford go.

Back to this thread, all three of Rozier, Oubre and Hayward can help playoff teams. The Heat make a lot of sense for all three of them. The Nets can use all three as well.