Make Your Best Offer: Gordon Hayward

[Wolveswin]

Here is a Wolves version I think fun to bat around. Not sure where I stand on it…

Gobert + Filler

FOR

Hayward + PJ + ?

Can Hornets close the value? And would they? Buy low on Gobert, have him recoup value being showcased on bad team. Or is a third team needed right away?

Would Wolves try this level of reshuffle? Is PJ and Wolves exciting enough to punt on Gobert?

[jbk1234]

I'd think about Cedi and LeVert for Hayward and asking for a couple of seconds back, but really, I just don't trust Hayward to stay healthy. I think I'd rather struggle with spacing this season and find a more reliable option this summer.

I don't think Cavs go into the tax this season for Hayward which would happen here. With Garland's injury they might need LeVert the next few weeks too.

Love for Hayward would work without them going into the tax. Love is an expiring if Charlotte wants the salary off their books. This would take the Cavs into the tax next season with Hayward's salary limiting any other moves they could potentially make in terms of LeVert deals, etc at the deadline or this summer.

Love for Hayward accomplishes nothing for the Cavs in terms of their greatness need (more spacing). It takes them out of free agency next season and leaves them really exposed to the risk of injury during two out of the three years Mitchell is guaranteed to be here. I'm a hard pass on Love for Hayward. Cavs could add Windler to LeVert, and Cedi if they felt okay about Hayward's health, but I just don't see how you can get there.

[Scoot McGroot]

I'd think about Cedi and LeVert for Hayward and asking for a couple of seconds back, but really, I just don't trust Hayward to stay healthy. I think I'd rather struggle with spacing this season and find a more reliable option this summer.

I don't think Cavs go into the tax this season for Hayward which would happen here. With Garland's injury they might need LeVert the next few weeks too.

Love for Hayward would work without them going into the tax. Love is an expiring if Charlotte wants the salary off their books. This would take the Cavs into the tax next season with Hayward's salary limiting any other moves they could potentially make in terms of LeVert deals, etc at the deadline or this summer.

Hayward would cover the ball handling/emergency PG duties that Levert does, but better.

[Texas Chuck]

As a Pacers fan, I’d like for them to not consider an offer, but I bet they would. A Buddy Hield makes little sense for Charlotte, but a straight swap of Buddy for Hayward would make sense for Indy, positionally. I also fear that Indy would basically swap Buddy for Hayward, and then use the rest of the cap space to renegotiate and extend Turner and basically call it a rebuild and say their a “win-now” team.

This does seem very Indiana I have to say. They probably also make that work for 50+ wins and the 2nd round because of course they do.

And if they wanted to get aggressive they would still have plenty of assets to go get a legit PF and that's a pretty solid Indiana Pacers team.

[MasterIchiro]

As a Pacers fan, I’d like for them to not consider an offer, but I bet they would. A Buddy Hield makes little sense for Charlotte, but a straight swap of Buddy for Hayward would make sense for Indy, positionally. I also fear that Indy would basically swap Buddy for Hayward, and then use the rest of the cap space to renegotiate and extend Turner and basically call it a rebuild and say their a “win-now” team.

6 seed with a base of Haliburton + Mathurin + Turner looks fine to me. Plus three 1st round picks in 2023?

From our end, Hayward matches up with more teams when guards (like Hield) can be used for matching purposes. So those teams can't pretend Terry Rozier doesn't exist.

That's why I believe moving Rozier is the first step to moving Hayward. It becomes so much easier.

And there is no urgency to attach assets to either player. It's not like the Hornets are the only team concerned about money. We don't have cap issues by keeping Hayward. His deal expires in time for LaMelo's extension.

I just want to point out (going back to last season), if I'm working in the front office, I'm looking to move Rozier over Hayward. Hayward brings stability and floor leadership. Terry is volatile, inefficient and a weak undersized defender.

So yeah, bring me Hield but not with Rozier here. It just makes zero sense for us.

[MasterIchiro]

I'd think about Cedi and LeVert for Hayward and asking for a couple of seconds back, but really, I just don't trust Hayward to stay healthy. I think I'd rather struggle with spacing this season and find a more reliable option this summer.

I appreciate the fairness in this offer.

At the same time, I've been adamant about moving Rozier first and foremost going back about one year now.

Remember how you felt about Sexton? When you lost him to injury your team came together around Garland. Addition by subtraction. I would hope our front office feels the same way.

[Scoot McGroot]

As a Pacers fan, I’d like for them to not consider an offer, but I bet they would. A Buddy Hield makes little sense for Charlotte, but a straight swap of Buddy for Hayward would make sense for Indy, positionally. I also fear that Indy would basically swap Buddy for Hayward, and then use the rest of the cap space to renegotiate and extend Turner and basically call it a rebuild and say their a “win-now” team.

6 seed with a base of Haliburton + Mathurin + Turner looks fine to me. Plus three 1st round picks in 2023?

From our end, Hayward matches up with more teams when guards (like Hield) can be used for matching purposes. So those teams can't pretend Terry Rozier doesn't exist.

That's why I believe moving Rozier is the first step to moving Hayward. It becomes so much easier.

And there is no urgency to attach assets to either player. It's not like the Hornets are the only team concerned about money. We don't have cap issues by keeping Hayward. His deal expires in time for LaMelo's extension.

I just want to point out (going back to last season), if I'm working in the front office, I'm looking to move Rozier over Hayward. Hayward brings stability and floor leadership. Terry is volatile, inefficient and a weak undersized defender.

So yeah, bring me Hield but not with Rozier here. It just makes zero sense for us.

Is hat a championship caliber team? Anytime in the next 3-5 years? With where those 2023 1sts are lining up (if Indy was the 6th seed, that’d be roughly picks 18, 29, and 30)? And what if Myles doesn’t re-sign/extend?

And as to the rest, yeah, I kind of pointed out that Hield didn’t make sense there.

[MasterIchiro]

Here is a Wolves version I think fun to bat around. Not sure where I stand on it…

Gobert + Filler

FOR

Hayward + PJ + ?

Can Hornets close the value? And would they? Buy low on Gobert, have him recoup value being showcased on bad team. Or is a third team needed right away?

Would Wolves try this level of reshuffle? Is PJ and Wolves exciting enough to punt on Gobert?

We wisely stayed out of the Gobert sweepstakes and doubled down on Mark Williams. We love him. In fact, LaMelo said, "I love Mark" when asked about his performance after the last game where Mark put up 17/13 in 21 minutes plus 2 steals, 2 blocks, 2 assists. We also like Nick Richards and Kai Jones.

[Scoot McGroot]

As a Pacers fan, I’d like for them to not consider an offer, but I bet they would. A Buddy Hield makes little sense for Charlotte, but a straight swap of Buddy for Hayward would make sense for Indy, positionally. I also fear that Indy would basically swap Buddy for Hayward, and then use the rest of the cap space to renegotiate and extend Turner and basically call it a rebuild and say their a “win-now” team.

This does seem very Indiana I have to say. They probably also make that work for 50+ wins and the 2nd round because of course they do.

And if they wanted to get aggressive they would still have plenty of assets to go get a legit PF and that's a pretty solid Indiana Pacers team.

Hayward would be the 4, so why would Indy possibly consider consolidating for a different 4? Hayward is perfect?


But yeah, classic Indy type move. Win about 45 games this year, extend Hayward and Myles at above market salaries and call it the win now future. Maybe make the second round but never have a chance at the ECF?

[MasterIchiro]

As a Pacers fan, I’d like for them to not consider an offer, but I bet they would. A Buddy Hield makes little sense for Charlotte, but a straight swap of Buddy for Hayward would make sense for Indy, positionally. I also fear that Indy would basically swap Buddy for Hayward, and then use the rest of the cap space to renegotiate and extend Turner and basically call it a rebuild and say their a “win-now” team.

6 seed with a base of Haliburton + Mathurin + Turner looks fine to me. Plus three 1st round picks in 2023?

From our end, Hayward matches up with more teams when guards (like Hield) can be used for matching purposes. So those teams can't pretend Terry Rozier doesn't exist.

That's why I believe moving Rozier is the first step to moving Hayward. It becomes so much easier.

And there is no urgency to attach assets to either player. It's not like the Hornets are the only team concerned about money. We don't have cap issues by keeping Hayward. His deal expires in time for LaMelo's extension.

I just want to point out (going back to last season), if I'm working in the front office, I'm looking to move Rozier over Hayward. Hayward brings stability and floor leadership. Terry is volatile, inefficient and a weak undersized defender.

So yeah, bring me Hield but not with Rozier here. It just makes zero sense for us.

Is hat a championship caliber team? Anytime in the next 3-5 years? With where those 2023 1sts are lining up (if Indy was the 6th seed, that’d be roughly picks 18, 29, and 30)? And what if Myles doesn’t re-sign/extend?

And as to the rest, yeah, I kind of pointed out that Hield didn’t make sense there.

2 playoffs with Hield vs. 2 playoffs with Hayward doesn't change your longterm championship hopes either way. Wings are the currency of the trade deadline. Already we hear the Cavs and Nuggets are in the market.

Would you take Oubre into cap for pick 30? We'd add the (currently) Heat 2023 2nd + Jazz 2023 2nd.

[jbk1234]

I'd think about Cedi and LeVert for Hayward and asking for a couple of seconds back, but really, I just don't trust Hayward to stay healthy. I think I'd rather struggle with spacing this season and find a more reliable option this summer.

I appreciate the fairness in this offer.

At the same time, I've been adamant about moving Rozier first and foremost going back about one year now.

Remember how you felt about Sexton? When you lost him to injury your team came together around Garland. Addition by subtraction. I would hope our front office feels the same way.

If I were the Hornets, I'm not doing a single thing to improve my team this season. Even if there's only a 15% chance to pair LeMelo with Wembanyama, I want every ping pong ball in the box I can get. The East is just so much better than it has been in the past, and fighting like crazy to lose another play-in game isn't the way to go here.

[Scoot McGroot]

6 seed with a base of Haliburton + Mathurin + Turner looks fine to me. Plus three 1st round picks in 2023?

From our end, Hayward matches up with more teams when guards (like Hield) can be used for matching purposes. So those teams can't pretend Terry Rozier doesn't exist.

That's why I believe moving Rozier is the first step to moving Hayward. It becomes so much easier.

And there is no urgency to attach assets to either player. It's not like the Hornets are the only team concerned about money. We don't have cap issues by keeping Hayward. His deal expires in time for LaMelo's extension.

I just want to point out (going back to last season), if I'm working in the front office, I'm looking to move Rozier over Hayward. Hayward brings stability and floor leadership. Terry is volatile, inefficient and a weak undersized defender.

So yeah, bring me Hield but not with Rozier here. It just makes zero sense for us.

Is hat a championship caliber team? Anytime in the next 3-5 years? With where those 2023 1sts are lining up (if Indy was the 6th seed, that’d be roughly picks 18, 29, and 30)? And what if Myles doesn’t re-sign/extend?

And as to the rest, yeah, I kind of pointed out that Hield didn’t make sense there.

Hield for Hayward doesn't change your championship hopes. Wings are the currency of the trade deadline. Already we hear the Cavs and Nuggets are in the market.

We’d be dealing a wing for a wing, so it wouldn’t really impact Indy in the way you think? Otherwise, I think it’s more that using up the cap space on just swapping Buddy for Hayward and then maybe an R&E for Turner would eliminate cap space for 2 years, so there’d be a limitation on future moves and flexibility.

But those teams aren’t likely in the market for Hayward. As we’re pointing out here, how would Cleveland match salaries? How would Denver?

Would you take Oubre into cap for pick 30? We'd add the (currently) Heat 2023 2nd + Jazz 2023 2nd.

Likely, no.

I think Indy would want payment to use cap space in that manner, so they’d want you to give up those 2nds and Indy would want to keep their first. As is, I think Indy would rather play Mathurin, Nembhard, Buddy, Duarte, and Nesmith than bring in Oubre and cut the other guys minutes.

[Wolveswin]

I'd think about Cedi and LeVert for Hayward and asking for a couple of seconds back, but really, I just don't trust Hayward to stay healthy. I think I'd rather struggle with spacing this season and find a more reliable option this summer.

I appreciate the fairness in this offer.

At the same time, I've been adamant about moving Rozier first and foremost going back about one year now.

Remember how you felt about Sexton? When you lost him to injury your team came together around Garland. Addition by subtraction. I would hope our front office feels the same way.

If I were the Hornets, I'm not doing a single thing to improve my team this season. Even if there's only a 15% chance to pair LeMelo with Wembanyama, I want every ping pong ball in the box I can get. The East is just so much better than it has been in the past, and fighting like crazy to lose another play-in game isn't the way to go here.

Which is a great point. They should be willing to add 2nds, maybe a youth, to Hayward. Knicks swap with no draft capital on either side would be amazing win for Hornets. Bench injured Fournier for rest of season, send Rose to ring chasing team for ham sandwich (or buyout) and tank. Next season have 2x 1sts and expiring Fournier to deal (if desired).

[MasterIchiro]

I'd think about Cedi and LeVert for Hayward and asking for a couple of seconds back, but really, I just don't trust Hayward to stay healthy. I think I'd rather struggle with spacing this season and find a more reliable option this summer.

I appreciate the fairness in this offer.

At the same time, I've been adamant about moving Rozier first and foremost going back about one year now.

Remember how you felt about Sexton? When you lost him to injury your team came together around Garland. Addition by subtraction. I would hope our front office feels the same way.

If I were the Hornets, I'm not doing a single thing to improve my team this season. Even if there's only a 15% chance to pair LeMelo with Wembanyama, I want every ping pong ball in the box I can get. The East is just so much better than it has been in the past, and fighting like crazy to lose another play-in game isn't the way to go here.

Right, so if a market develops for Rozier (pursued by the Lakers this summer), you answer those calls. You play Dennis Smith Jr. at SG then Cody Martin when he returns. Hell, grant Bouknight extended playing time as he builds confidence.

Hornets are positioned well to sell, as one of maybe 5 teams too far out of the play-in picture. The rest of the league is within 3 games, aside from the Lakers who have nothing to sell and if anything will buy. You look at the vets available and Rozier ranks near the top. We hear sexier names like Bey, Kuzma and Trent Jr., but I don't see those players getting moved. Many buyers out there jockeying for playoff rotation players, many empty cupboards, and scarce availability.

[jbk1234]

Is hat a championship caliber team? Anytime in the next 3-5 years? With where those 2023 1sts are lining up (if Indy was the 6th seed, that’d be roughly picks 18, 29, and 30)? And what if Myles doesn’t re-sign/extend?

And as to the rest, yeah, I kind of pointed out that Hield didn’t make sense there.

Hield for Hayward doesn't change your championship hopes. Wings are the currency of the trade deadline. Already we hear the Cavs and Nuggets are in the market.

We’d be dealing a wing for a wing, so it wouldn’t really impact Indy in the way you think? Otherwise, I think it’s more that using up the cap space on just swapping Buddy for Hayward and then maybe an R&E for Turner would eliminate cap space for 2 years, so there’d be a limitation on future moves and flexibility.

But those teams aren’t likely in the market for Hayward. As we’re pointing out here, how would Cleveland match salaries? How would Denver?

Would you take Oubre into cap for pick 30? We'd add the (currently) Heat 2023 2nd + Jazz 2023 2nd.

Likely, no.

I think Indy would want payment to use cap space in that manner, so they’d want you to give up those 2nds and Indy would want to keep their first. As is, I think Indy would rather play Mathurin, Nembhard, Buddy, Duarte, and Nesmith than bring in Oubre and cut the other guys minutes.

Indy can have Hayward, the Cavs will take Heild and sub in LeVert. I'd asked for a decent second for eating the second year of Heild's salary.

[facothomas22]

The issue here is that Gordan Haywood is negative salary. Unless the Hornets are willing to take on even worse salary than his, they won't get any value for Haywood and likely have to attach assets if they want any decent value players.

You think Fournier and Rose gets it done?

Maybe. However it depends if the Knicks feel Gordan Haywood will help them win more games.

[MasterIchiro]

The issue here is that Gordan Haywood is negative salary. Unless the Hornets are willing to take on even worse salary than his, they won't get any value for Haywood and likely have to attach assets if they want any decent value players.

You think Fournier and Rose gets it done?

Maybe. However it depends if the Knicks feel Gordan Haywood will help them win more games.

No interest in Fournier. We're trying to implement fundamental principles on defense. Hayward organizes the young Hornets on both ends.

I'd offer Oubre for Rose + McBride.

[Texas Chuck]

As a Pacers fan, I’d like for them to not consider an offer, but I bet they would. A Buddy Hield makes little sense for Charlotte, but a straight swap of Buddy for Hayward would make sense for Indy, positionally. I also fear that Indy would basically swap Buddy for Hayward, and then use the rest of the cap space to renegotiate and extend Turner and basically call it a rebuild and say their a “win-now” team.

This does seem very Indiana I have to say. They probably also make that work for 50+ wins and the 2nd round because of course they do.

And if they wanted to get aggressive they would still have plenty of assets to go get a legit PF and that's a pretty solid Indiana Pacers team.

Hayward would be the 4, so why would Indy possibly consider consolidating for a different 4? Hayward is perfect?


But yeah, classic Indy type move. Win about 45 games this year, extend Hayward and Myles at above market salaries and call it the win now future. Maybe make the second round but never have a chance at the ECF?

Oh no question Rick would love to play Gordon at the 4 at times to get the offensive advantages of that. I remember Dallas making some real hay out of Parsons or Barnes at the 4--offensively anyway.

I just think the Pacers still need another PF even if Hayward plays half his minutes there. They have some options in house of course, but none of them really seemed to have seized it. I thought Brissett might be headed there, but now I'm not as bullish on him.

[shrink]

I just think that Charlotte would want something to hang their hats on. Maybe they can sell a depressed value young player like Reddish? I don’t know. Maybe it’s a top 20 protected first? I don’t know. But I bet they’d want something. They’re the same front office that signed Hayward to that deal, so I bet they wouldn’t be prepared to cut bait for just some cap savings and paint their premiere signing as bad money right now.

Exactly. As we all know, big name players get big contracts, and those teams often need to get value from early seasons because in the latter years, whether from injury or age, production wanes and younger players step in. Unfortunately for GM’s, the big name doesn’t decline as quickly.

I think players like Hayward are harder for GM’s to trade, because they still need to win the press conference, especially for the casual fans. Unfortunately, opposing GM’s know these guys true value, and will only offer negative packages, but the most successful ones aren’t a bunch of slightly negative contracts - they need something to “hang their hat on,” as you say. So realistic returns often include another “more name than game” players coming back, late picks that might not confer, a once-promising younger player that hasn’t panned out, or an even worse contract paired with a legitimate, “okay” asset. This let’s the GM say,

”Yes, our guy was great here and we wish him well, but we’re so excited to add [asset] into our organization, and we think a change of scenery will be what he needs to demonstrate his [best case scenario]!”

I don’t think Charlotte is desperate to trade him, and he might be the type of player that they keep and bench in the second half for phantom injuries if they choose to try to tank. But if they do trade him, I think you’re right - the package must contain a “hang their hat” piece.

[JMAC3]

The question I have is when does Gordon turn from a negative contract to a neutral contract?
Westbrook is 3rd highest paid player in league and his contract at 47 million seems pretty movable at times.
Hayward will be the 40th highest paid player in league next year with an expiring of 31.5 million.

So lets say for a team like Dallas...

They can acquire Hayward at deadline, pay him half his salary for second half of this year (15 million) try him out in the playoffs for a year. If he fails and Dallas hates it.... how hard is it move an expiring contract his size next year? You could make argument that his contract becomes one of Dallas better assets if they truly were willing to attach picks and go star hunting...

For Hornets, I just don't see them rushing to move him if it will cost them significantly less to move him this summer as an expiring. We aren't winning anyways, so moving him now doesn't really push the needle.