Realgm's Top Ten negative assets - FINAL RESULTS!!

[stuporman]

The only reason James didn't make the list is he is an expiring contract ..

And the only reason Dwight Howard didn't make the list is because he's not paid $60 mil a year

The list was about negative assets which Jerome James is, him only having one year left is a legitimate reason why others didn't feel he was in the top ten of negative assets. I believe he is worthy of a top ten rating because he offers zero value on the court yet is paid nearly $7mil and has zero value in trade on his own even as an expiring contract. So I can feel he's worthy of a top ten negative value. This isn't a fact list, it's an opinion list and I'm allowed to have mine. At least all the other players on the list aside from Curry actually play even if they don't play well.

Your comment is just ignorant and shows you need to either grow up or get a grip.

[loserX]

The list was about negative assets which Jerome James is, him only having one year left is a legitimate reason why others didn't feel he was in the top ten of negative assets. I believe he is worthy of a top ten rating because he offers zero value on the court yet is paid nearly $7mil

Except that if he really cannot play, insurance picks up 80% of his contract and he costs the Bulls only $1.32M. The Bulls are neither in the tax nor under the cap, so the "lost cap" represented by the rest of James' contract is meaningless to them.

I agree with you that he has negative value, since $1.32M for nothing in return is a negative; no doubt. I do not agree with you that he is one of the 10 most negative assets...a lot of players listed would make their teams ecstatic if all the teams had to do is pay them $1.32M to go away.

[stuporman]

The list was about negative assets which Jerome James is, him only having one year left is a legitimate reason why others didn't feel he was in the top ten of negative assets. I believe he is worthy of a top ten rating because he offers zero value on the court yet is paid nearly $7mil

Except that if he really cannot play, insurance picks up 80% of his contract and he costs the Bulls only $1.32M. The Bulls are neither in the tax nor under the cap, so the "lost cap" represented by the rest of James' contract is meaningless to them.

I agree with you that he has negative value, since $1.32M for nothing in return is a negative; no doubt. I do not agree with you that he is one of the 10 most negative assets...a lot of players listed would make their teams ecstatic if all the teams had to do is pay them $1.32M to go away.

There would have to be an injury, confirmed by the league medical staff. Fat is not an injury. Insurance is not picking up his salary cause he's fat. The Bulls will be on the hook for the full amount.

[GopherIt!]

I would definitely take Lewis off this list.

Most of us agree that he is overpaid but yet a productive player.

What we also have to take into account that he plays for a very good team with a FO that is willing to go over the cap/lux threshhold. Orlando is at 82.060M this season. Let's say Lewis was making a more reasonable salary - like 12M. Even with that extra 6M the Magic would still be around 76M which wouldn't have made any significant difference to their cap situation or ability to sign other players. It would help lessen their lux payment but that does not seem to be important to the them under the circumstances. For an FO willing to spend the coin, that 6M + lux penalty is well worth the price of being one of the best teams in the league and having title aspirations. This will certainly get a little more expensive each year but they will be in a similar situation for the foreseeable future.

I think this is an unusual example of a situation where if a team plays the rest of their cards shrewdly, they can actually afford to overpay a good player and make it work to their benefit.

[loserX]

There would have to be an injury, confirmed by the league medical staff. Fat is not an injury. Insurance is not picking up his salary cause he's fat. The Bulls will be on the hook for the full amount.

Jerome James tore his achilles tendon. It has nothing to do with his weight.

[stuporman]

There would have to be an injury, confirmed by the league medical staff. Fat is not an injury. Insurance is not picking up his salary cause he's fat. The Bulls will be on the hook for the full amount.

Jerome James tore his achilles tendon. It has nothing to do with his weight.

I guess we'll see. He's back in camp and he's quoted as saying he wanted to play. It's not up to the Bulls to decide he can't play. It will take conf. from league doctors.

[loserX]

There would have to be an injury, confirmed by the league medical staff. Fat is not an injury. Insurance is not picking up his salary cause he's fat. The Bulls will be on the hook for the full amount.

Jerome James tore his achilles tendon. It has nothing to do with his weight.

I guess we'll see. He's back in camp and he's quoted as saying he wanted to play. It's not up to the Bulls to decide he can't play. It will take conf. from league doctors.

Agreed. But you said he contributes absolutely zero on the court and will cost almost $7M...which is not true. It'll be one or the other; if he costs $7M it's because he can play.

[stuporman]

Agreed. But you said he contributes absolutely zero on the court and will cost almost $7M...which is not true. It'll be one or the other; if he costs $7M it's because he can play.

No it doesn't have to be just your two alternatives. He spent years on the bench able to play but giving nothing on the court, heck even when he's on the court he gives nothing. The more probable outcome is he'll become healthy enough to 'play' but not offer anything in real production. Which is the norm for him the past few years. So enjoy the $6.6mil towel waver......that's about all you'll get. Well, that and his quotables.

[john2jer]

But Jerome James contract is expiring, it doesn't have 2 years on it, thus he doesn't belong on this list. You're the one that bagged on the list because Jerome wasn't on it. Clearly you don't understand the list, or you don't understand the value of an expiring contract compared the ugly contracts on this list.

Clearly you don't understand value, general business practices or reality in general if you think Jerome James is neutral value or will be traded for anything on his own before he expires.

No one's saying he's going to be traded for anything. My point is that because he's expiring he means salary relief in 9 months, which none of the players from this list give, they're all longer or more expensive, or both. Now I completely disagree with Rashard Lewis being on this list, but there's no way Jerome James replaces him. Marko Jaric's not on this list and he's just as useless, but has an extra year on his contract. Pretty sure every team in the league would rather have Jerome James than Marko Jaric because of his contract.

Now you're a Knick fan, right? I can understand your hatred for Jerome James, I agree he's a bum, but it sounds like your opinion is a little biased because your team forked over a ton of money for a bum who's claim to fame is one year in the play-offs. Jared Jeffries isn't on this list, and I guarantee you that Donnie Walsh would trade Jeffries for Jerome James straight-up in a heartbeat, if he could.

And by your view, Mark Blount would be even worse value than Jerome James, and he's not on the list. Blount is more expensive and just as useless to the Wolves. So there's two, maybe three, examples worse than yours that weren't included.

We get it, you don't understand the discussion, it's no big deal. Just pay attention and try to learn.

[stuporman]

Those two guys you mention aren't just as useless as James. That's your opinion but they have had some production, even if it wasn't up to expectations. I pay attention, I learned your opinion is useless. Jefferies would replace Lewis before Jaric would. Although Knick fans are hoping he can hit a jump shot this year, if his camp and first preseason game is any indication he just might be able to. James doesn't even get on the court when 'healthy' but Blount does and can offer something in a reserve role for his overpaid status. Although you were claiming James has value as an expiring and could be traded for something, but now you are saying not. Make up your flip flopping mind. At least stand up for your opinion not change it to try and win something. I understand, you have this forum as your life and identity so need to defend it. Good luck with that.

I'm done with this thread and this discussion with you. I don't even talk to you when you come trolling over to the Knick board with your inane posts. You can have the last word if you feel the need to.

[CellarDoor]

Cut it out with the attacks.

[rugby-hook]

There are a number of factors that go into the criteria before determining negative value. The discussion is at cross purposes and cluttering the discussion. Here some of the factors:

1. Total dollar value of the contract: Players, regardless of skill, can fall into this catagory. Here we have the discussions of Lewis and AK47. Both start and play heavy minutes, but are perceived to be overpaid for their production or position.

2. Less than talented players with expensive contracts: Players that are untradeable because they have either lost their skills or some GM overvalued them. Peja and the isiah signings fall into this catagory

3. Length of contract players: Players that have longish contracts, even at low prices. Walton, Udih & Diop hits this catagory.

4. Head cases: Players with bad attitudes.

The issue is whether all of these factors are really valid. In the era of falling salary caps and a new CBA on the horizon, length of contract may not be as big a factor as short-term savings. There is a possibility that the LT will be less punitive in the next CBA and the new contract will more than likely have a one contract exemption like the last agreement, which will allow teams to cut players with LT implications. If this were to happen, players like Udih and Walton, especially since Wlaton plays, does not belong on this list. The contract could easily be cut in the next agreement or the LT would go down. It is this thinking that has made real trades like Udih for Jaric unlikely, even though the money saved on the whole contract is significant.

This potential change also makes Davis contracts more digestible as well. Therefore, when looking at negative assets, some expirings may be more painful than longer more expensive agreements stretched over time. This is only an example and I suggest players only as salary place holders. Would Mil trade Bell with 3 years at $10m for Jerome James at 1 year for $7.0m, if the talent were close? Probably not because Mil would want the immediate savings. Would Chicago do it? more likely than Mil. Will LA trade a long-term low contract for a short-term contract that is more expensive? Unlikely. If this were the norm, tghe CHA-NOH deal would not have been so surprising.

Finally, there is the issue that makes fans, fans. We will argue about which cataogry your player falls into and proper value of our player. Personally, Jaric should be in and Walton should off the list. Walton plays, while jaric is healthy and does not play. The Jaric contract is so bad that Mem cannot even dump him for a worse contract. Think about it, should Mem have dumped JAric or Richardson?

[penbeast0]

1. Eddy Curry
2. Peja Stojakovic
3. DeSagana Diop
T-4. Beno Udrih
T-4. Baron Davis
6. Gilbert Arenas
7. Elton Brand
8. Rashard Lewis
9. Luke Walton
10. Corey Maggette

Just curious where people think the following team's record would be if they stayed reasonably healthy and had an average NBA coach:

Diop/Curry
Brand/Peja
Lewis/Walton
Arenas/Maggete
Davis/Udrih

Assume you can pick up two waiver wire big men at veterans minimum or NBDL types but cannot sign anyone to more than that. There's a lot of talent there, just a lot of bad contracts to go with them, or, even in a cap free NBA, is this Isiah Thomas and the Knicks part two?

[john2jer]

1. Eddy Curry
2. Peja Stojakovic
3. DeSagana Diop
T-4. Beno Udrih
T-4. Baron Davis
6. Gilbert Arenas
7. Elton Brand
8. Rashard Lewis
9. Luke Walton
10. Corey Maggette

Just curious where people think the following team's record would be if they stayed reasonably healthy and had an average NBA coach:

Diop/Curry
Brand/Peja
Lewis/Walton
Arenas/Maggete
Davis/Udrih

Assume you can pick up two waiver wire big men at veterans minimum or NBDL types but cannot sign anyone to more than that. There's a lot of talent there, just a lot of bad contracts to go with them, or, even in a cap free NBA, is this Isiah Thomas and the Knicks part two?

Ton of talent, definitely a play-off team if they could stay healthy and not ruin team chemistry. But most are on this list because of health/bad attitude concerns.

[OGSactownballer]

For an example. As an individual player last year, Lamar Odom had nowhere near the 14 million dollar value that he was paid. But for the Lakers who won the championship, his role play in that effort was worth EVERY PENNY that he was paid.

And yet when it came time to re-sign him, the Lakers gave him a little more than half that $14M in the contract's first year. So it seems even the Lakers would disagree with you that he is worth as much as he got paid last year.

Yes, but even though you are right, so am I. The Lakers only paid him 7 million per because the market was lean and they only needed to beat teams that could pay MLE to get him to stay. Would you hnoestly say that Odom is better than Ron Artest with both at the top of their respective game? I don't think so, and I don't think that if you are being honest with yourself and looking at pure basketball talent that you would either. Yet Artest took the MLE from the Lakers because that was what the market had to offer, and barring another run into the stands, that will probably be a far better value contract that Odom's. Does it mean that Odom's is bad? No, because he fits his role with this championship caliber TEAM and that is worth whatever it costs them because there is only one ring handed out each year.

I also really like the piint made that if all these players were to be formed into one team and play at their normal level of ability and health, they would not only be a playoff contender, they would be a championship contender.
It is impossible to determine this BEFORE the season starts, because we don't know that any or all of these guys might play 82 games in a career year. That's the nature of the beast. I would like to se what this list looks like at midseason.

[killbuckner]

If a team would not accept an expiring contract of a bad player then they are not a negative asset. Rashard Lewis does not belong on the list. Does anyone think that the magic would accept a trade of Brad Miller and Jerome James for Rashard Lewis? If you are a negative contract then no team would voluntarily want your contract on the books no matter how much you contribute. Personally I think that Zach Randolph is a negative value player but since a team just gave up an expriing contract for him he can't be on this list.

Just to use an example I have little doubt if the Clippers were offered a get out of Jail Free card on the Baron Davis contract they would take it in a heartbeat.

[poopdamoop]

If a team would not accept an expiring contract of a bad player then they are not a negative asset. Rashard Lewis does not belong on the list. Does anyone think that the magic would accept a trade of Brad Miller and Jerome James for Rashard Lewis? If you are a negative contract then no team would voluntarily want your contract on the books no matter how much you contribute. Personally I think that Zach Randolph is a negative value player but since a team just gave up an expriing contract for him he can't be on this list.

Just to use an example I have little doubt if the Clippers were offered a get out of Jail Free card on the Baron Davis contract they would take it in a heartbeat.

I guess the main question is whether these contracts should be looked at in a vacuum, or in the context of their current teams.

[FNQ]

Stephen Jackson demands a recount

[vincecarter4pres]

Stephen Jackson demands a recount

Touche.

[dockingsched]

wrong warrior was voted in.