Kevin Love - Every team's best offer

[Higgs Boston]

Saying "we're the Celtics/Lakers, therefore we will always be good" seems naïve and silly. Where was the Boston contender before 2008? they spent years as a mediocre Eastern playoff team (and worse). The Lakers are stuck in a similar (possibly worse) mess at the moment. I think the Celtics will be a good team if they get Love, and make some solid moves to round out the roster, but let's not go crazy with this contender stuff.

4 seasons ago your "comic franchise" of Cleveland was the best regular season team in the NBA for the 2nd year running. 3 years ago fans like you were calling the Clippers, Grizz and Warriors the basket case franchises of the NBA, who would never go anywhere. How did that work out?

how are the lakers in a worse situation? we will have essentially unlimited capspace in a year along with a lotto pick this year. and we already have the premier free agent hinting that LA is his #1 destination.

as far as non-contending teams, i would say the lakers are in one of the best situations.

lakers will always be good because worst case scenario they are still THE destination city in the NBA and they have the history to back it up, unlike the knicks who for some reason think everyone wants to go there but end up with nothing and win nothing.

unlike the celtics a majority of the lakers winning isnt based on one dynasty in the 50s. the lakers consistently put out great teams unlike any other franchise in the league.

The Lakers are a worse situation than Celtics for the moment:

- Their best player-kobe-, is a veteran with injuries and has a toxic contract.
- Have few assets -only round of this year-, they haven't young players no future rounds

But I think they can attract a great players in summer 2016 (without kobe contract)

[DowJones]

2 round? if Love going to Celtics, they will not be contender in the next year, only PO, but in 1-2 years yes, they are contender. Remember that are the boston celtics, not are bobcats, knicks, minnesota, cleveland or another comic franchise.

LoL...in what world do you live in? Just saying "we are Boston Strong!!!!" isn't going to convince anyone. Saying you are Boston means absolutely nothing. You have to put a team together and a Rondo-Love combo won't go very far, even in the East...especially not with young teams like Washington, Cleveland, and Detroit coming up and Chicago/Miami/Indiana already there.

You do not understand. I'm not saying it's only Celtics. I'm saying this

With Rondo-Love, Celtics have two young All-Star, they can attract a 1-2 important players in 2015 or 2016, I'm not saying just being the celtics.
Celtics and other serious franchise have shown that leverage their opportunities and are ambitious in their objectives. For example Memphis have a great project in the last years, but they never taken a step forward, even they have traded a major player like rudy gay. Or same thing OKC with harden
Celtics, miami, chicago, lakers, spurs, houston, GSW or suns, are reliable franchise, Love and others All-stars can be sure of being contender if they stay in those franchises.

I don't view Rondo the way you do. He is coming off of a serious ACL injury and he needs to prove himself without the Big-3. He struggles to score and he is a terrible shooter. I just want to get that out of the way from the start.

You are VASTLY overrating the importance of "being Boston" or "being Golden State". That doesn't promise you anything and I will not accept that as a reasonable predictor of future success. In what TANGIBLE way does "Being Boston" help? That is a lazy way of looking at things. If Boston had a tangible advantage of being in a sexy city then sure. They don't even have that.

The same argument you are making for Boston is one I can make for Cleveland

-All-Star PG (6 years younger than Rondo...)
-Some really talented young players that probably don't have superstar upside
-Enough Cap-Space for a max-contract FA

Even with that being said as a Cleveland fan I wouldn't want to trade the #1 pick UNLESS LeBron comes back. If Cleveland is able to set that up...a Big-3 of Irving/Love/James with youngsters like Waiters, Thompson, and Bennett to go with role players like Varejao and Jack...does that all of a sudden make Cleveland a "trusted franchise"? Afterall, just 4 years after starting from scratch they go out and put together an absolutely stacked roster that will be a title favorite for the next 5 years.

[irie]

Meh. I don't think #6 gets it done. I guess we'll see, but I think the Celtics moving back a slot makes it pretty unlikely the Celtics have a shot at Love. And since I already thought it was unlikely he'd sign an extension in Boston in the first place... I'm over it.

#6 + Sullinger + anyone + any unguranteed deals = perhaps Kevin Love.

We'll see. I'd be content with dumping Rondo for a future #1.

[Baller2014]

your post makes little sense. which laker fans thought we were going to make the palyoffs or be imminent contenders? no one thought any of that after dwight left.

I went back through your board and found this pre-season expectations thread. It looks like a lot of the fans on your board had expectations way above the outcomes (even factoring in injuries, the Lakers never plausibly looked like a playoff team this year).
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1276944

and none of those teams are the lakers as far as FA destinations goes, so again, dont know what youre talking about. regardless even if it wasnt the lakers, the fact that other teams missed out on FA targets doesnt mean anything. and also having cap space doesnt mean anything if there are no free agents youre interested in, in general its rare for big names to make it to UFA, so teams usually dont do anything with cap space because its not worth it. for the lakers its a blank slate.

Sure, LA has an advantage on a lot of teams, but the Spurs were coming off a title win in 2003, and the Mavs are a big market who can say the same in 2011-12. I wouldn't exactly sneeze at the 2000 Bulls either, 1 year removed from a dynasty. Are the Lakers who just finished 2nd worst in the West really so much more attractive than those teams? And remember, that was in the older CBAs. It's much harder to steal free agents in todays game, and a hundred times harder than in 96 (the last time the Lakers did it).

and the lakers will not be pitching kevin love on an old kobe, hes done with his career. the pitch will be whoever our lotto pick is + cap space for someone else + him. the idea is to pitch to kevin love that we will build a contender around him in LA, not come play with a 40 year old kobe. and unlike dwight, love would be interested to play in LA.

Who is someone else? I don't see it. Kobe is still on the team eating up their cap space and feeling like he's "the man", it seems pretty unappealing (Dwight thought so too). A lot of you want to trade that lotto pick, and whoever you get with it is probably a few years away from developing (and might even play the same position as Love if it is Randle or Vonleh left at that slot).

and i dunno what to tell you if you dont think Love is interested in coming to LA, its plain as day. maybe it happens, maybe it doesnt, but obviously the interest exists. of course hes not going to respond to the rumors, hes not as stupid as carmelo to come out and say that hes leaving for only 1-2 destinations.

Sure, he's clearly interested, but he's also clearly interested in other teams, and most importantly in making money (otherwise he'd just bide his time on Minny and sign outright with you next offseason, letting you keep your pick). It looks like Love will be settled elsewhere long before the 2015 offseason though. When asked Love certainly threw cold water on the idea he was committed to the Lakers, pointing out that right now they're worse than the Wolves anyway. If he couldn't turn the Wolves into a playoff team, is he much more likely to turn the bones of Kobe Bryant, some (less than max) free agent, and some draft pick into a playoff team?

[Higgs Boston]

LoL...in what world do you live in? Just saying "we are Boston Strong!!!!" isn't going to convince anyone. Saying you are Boston means absolutely nothing. You have to put a team together and a Rondo-Love combo won't go very far, even in the East...especially not with young teams like Washington, Cleveland, and Detroit coming up and Chicago/Miami/Indiana already there.

You do not understand. I'm not saying it's only Celtics. I'm saying this

With Rondo-Love, Celtics have two young All-Star, they can attract a 1-2 important players in 2015 or 2016, I'm not saying just being the celtics.
Celtics and other serious franchise have shown that leverage their opportunities and are ambitious in their objectives. For example Memphis have a great project in the last years, but they never taken a step forward, even they have traded a major player like rudy gay. Or same thing OKC with harden
Celtics, miami, chicago, lakers, spurs, houston, GSW or suns, are reliable franchise, Love and others All-stars can be sure of being contender if they stay in those franchises.

I don't view Rondo the way you do. He is coming off of a serious ACL injury and he needs to prove himself without the Big-3. He struggles to score and he is a terrible shooter. I just want to get that out of the way from the start.

You are VASTLY overrating the importance of "being Boston" or "being Golden State". That doesn't promise you anything and I will not accept that as a reasonable predictor of future success. In what TANGIBLE way does "Being Boston" help? That is a lazy way of looking at things. If Boston had a tangible advantage of being in a sexy city then sure. They don't even have that.

The same argument you are making for Boston is one I can make for Cleveland

-All-Star PG (6 years younger than Rondo...)
-Some really talented young players that probably don't have superstar upside
-Enough Cap-Space for a max-contract FA

Even with that being said as a Cleveland fan I wouldn't want to trade the #1 pick UNLESS LeBron comes back. If Cleveland is able to set that up...a Big-3 of Irving/Love/James with youngsters like Waiters, Thompson, and Bennett to go with role players like Varejao and Jack...does that all of a sudden make Cleveland a "trusted franchise"? Afterall, just 4 years after starting from scratch they go out and put together an absolutely stacked roster that will be a title favorite for the next 5 years.

I already said that is not because just are the celtics or lakers, It is for being a reliable and ambitious franchise and as an extra the story-name
Love or another all-star never go to a franchise with decontrol of Cleveland, and even less with problems in their roster. Cleveland would have to make a big change of management to do that.
See if this is so, that even with the best player in the NBA, they were unable to make a competitive team for him, cleveland with lebron are: lebron + nothing/mediocrity.
You Imagine this in a serious franchise? in celtics, lakers or the others mentioned?
Only with Deng's opinion on Clevenad already should be enough to understand this.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Meh. I don't think #6 gets it done. I guess we'll see, but I think the Celtics moving back a slot makes it pretty unlikely the Celtics have a shot at Love. And since I already thought it was unlikely he'd sign an extension in Boston in the first place... I'm over it.

#6 + Sullinger + anyone + any unguranteed deals = perhaps Kevin Love.

We'll see. I'd be content with dumping Rondo for a future #1.

My personal thoughts are that unless Cleveland wants to go for broke, the best realistic offer for Love is J. Randle. So if he's at 6 and Danny can work out something with Love, why not

[irie]

Meh. I don't think #6 gets it done. I guess we'll see, but I think the Celtics moving back a slot makes it pretty unlikely the Celtics have a shot at Love. And since I already thought it was unlikely he'd sign an extension in Boston in the first place... I'm over it.

#6 + Sullinger + anyone + any unguranteed deals = perhaps Kevin Love.

We'll see. I'd be content with dumping Rondo for a future #1.

My personal thoughts are that unless Cleveland wants to go for broke, the best realistic offer for Love is J. Randle. So if he's at 6 and Danny can work out something with Love, why not

Yeah, we'll see. I am officially off the bandwagon though.

And the Celtics best player available is a PF. The best players available at #6 will also be PFs. So what's the point of redundancy? We'll see - but I think the Celtics at #6 are now out of the Love sweepstakes.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Meh. I don't think #6 gets it done. I guess we'll see, but I think the Celtics moving back a slot makes it pretty unlikely the Celtics have a shot at Love. And since I already thought it was unlikely he'd sign an extension in Boston in the first place... I'm over it.

#6 + Sullinger + anyone + any unguranteed deals = perhaps Kevin Love.

We'll see. I'd be content with dumping Rondo for a future #1.

My personal thoughts are that unless Cleveland wants to go for broke, the best realistic offer for Love is J. Randle. So if he's at 6 and Danny can work out something with Love, why not

Yeah, we'll see. I am officially off the bandwagon though.

And the Celtics best player available is a PF. The best players available at #6 will also be PFs. So what's the point of redundancy? We'll see - but I think the Celtics at #6 are now out of the Love sweepstakes.

I can see that stance, but things change quick. Is there really that much separation between Jordan/CP3/Blake and Love/Rondo/Green? I'm not so sure there is. Plus things are getting loose in the NBA - Duncan/Kobe/Pierce/KG are all on the way out. Durant hasn't figured it out with OKC yet. Dwight and CP3 aren't making much traction. It's not unreasonable to picture the Celtics among the elites with a K Love trade, Rondo returning to form, and a couple sly moves for veterans. Maybe not this year, but in a 3 year window.

[irie]

My personal thoughts are that unless Cleveland wants to go for broke, the best realistic offer for Love is J. Randle. So if he's at 6 and Danny can work out something with Love, why not

Yeah, we'll see. I am officially off the bandwagon though.

And the Celtics best player available is a PF. The best players available at #6 will also be PFs. So what's the point of redundancy? We'll see - but I think the Celtics at #6 are now out of the Love sweepstakes.

I can see that stance, but things change quick. Is there really that much separation between Jordan/CP3/Blake and Love/Rondo/Green? I'm not so sure there is. Plus things are getting loose in the NBA - Duncan/Kobe/Pierce/KG are all on the way out. Durant hasn't figured it out with OKC yet. Dwight and CP3 aren't making much traction. It's not unreasonable to picture the Celtics among the elites with a K Love trade, Rondo returning to form, and a couple sly moves for veterans. Maybe not this year, but in a 3 year window.

I mean - what's the point in the Wolves trading for #6 (likely a PF) and Sullinger? They get two PFs who are mediocre NBA prospects. I don't see the value in that for them, when PF is the highest glut position in the NBA. I think PF is even easier to fill than PG right now. Who cares about adding a PF when most teams in the NBA have so many they just start two of them?

[Devilzsidewalk]

Yeah, we'll see. I am officially off the bandwagon though.

And the Celtics best player available is a PF. The best players available at #6 will also be PFs. So what's the point of redundancy? We'll see - but I think the Celtics at #6 are now out of the Love sweepstakes.

I can see that stance, but things change quick. Is there really that much separation between Jordan/CP3/Blake and Love/Rondo/Green? I'm not so sure there is. Plus things are getting loose in the NBA - Duncan/Kobe/Pierce/KG are all on the way out. Durant hasn't figured it out with OKC yet. Dwight and CP3 aren't making much traction. It's not unreasonable to picture the Celtics among the elites with a K Love trade, Rondo returning to form, and a couple sly moves for veterans. Maybe not this year, but in a 3 year window.

I mean - what's the point in the Wolves trading for #6 (likely a PF) and Sullinger? They get two PFs who are mediocre NBA prospects. I don't see the value in that for them, when PF is the highest glut position in the NBA. I think PF is even easier to fill than PG right now. Who cares about adding a PF when most teams in the NBA have so many they just start two of them?

oh I see what you mean. I don't think Sullinger would even be needed, Randle and any random non-cap killers would suffice. That's just my take though. Houston and GSW's best trade pieces are Parsons and K Thompson, but they're due for big contracts. Unless OKC wants to part with Ibaka and some younguns or some other surprise offer pops up, I see J Randle as the best trade option for MN.

[microfib4thewin]

how are the lakers in a worse situation? we will have essentially unlimited capspace in a year along with a lotto pick this year. and we already have the premier free agent hinting that LA is his #1 destination.

as far as non-contending teams, i would say the lakers are in one of the best situations.

lakers will always be good because worst case scenario they are still THE destination city in the NBA and they have the history to back it up, unlike the knicks who for some reason think everyone wants to go there but end up with nothing and win nothing.

unlike the celtics a majority of the lakers winning isnt based on one dynasty in the 50s. the lakers consistently put out great teams unlike any other franchise in the league.

22 mil in capspace is hardly unlimited when we only have four players on the team, and it's not like those four are anything to write about.

[Higgs Boston]

Speaking of deals, for me pick6 + olynyk + expiring's is "better" than pick6 + sullinger + expiring's for minnesota. Olynyk can play in 5 and 4, sullinger has more potential but he's only 4. I mean, If trading Love I guess also will do the same with Pekovic. Sullinger would be more redundant

[Doormatt]

how are the lakers in a worse situation? we will have essentially unlimited capspace in a year along with a lotto pick this year. and we already have the premier free agent hinting that LA is his #1 destination.

as far as non-contending teams, i would say the lakers are in one of the best situations.

lakers will always be good because worst case scenario they are still THE destination city in the NBA and they have the history to back it up, unlike the knicks who for some reason think everyone wants to go there but end up with nothing and win nothing.

unlike the celtics a majority of the lakers winning isnt based on one dynasty in the 50s. the lakers consistently put out great teams unlike any other franchise in the league.

22 mil in capspace is hardly unlimited when we only have four players on the team, and it's not like those four are anything to write about.

???? the only contract we will have on the books is our pick from this year, i have no idea what youre talking about.

[Baller2014]

What? That's not true at all. Which offseason are you talking about"?

[irie]

Speaking of deals, for me pick6 + olynyk + expiring's is "better" than pick6 + sullinger + expiring's for minnesota. Olynyk can play in 5 and 4, sullinger has more potential but he's only 4. I mean, If trading Love I guess also will do the same with Pekovic. Sullinger would be more redundant

Sullinger played the 5 as much as the 4 this year, and actually his numbers looked better at the 5. So if a team wants a fat, 6'7 center ... Sullinger is your man

[microfib4thewin]

???? the only contract we will have on the books is our pick from this year, i have no idea what youre talking about.

Apologies, you are talking about next year. I still don't see where this infinite capspace is coming from. Kobe's deal doesn't come off the book until two years from now, so are you expecting the Lakers to keep filling the roster with 1 year minimum players and hope for a big splash in 2016? If the Lakers signs any multi-year deal this or next offseason then that capspace won't be so infinite anymore.

[Baller2014]

Not to mention that if the Lakers spend the next 2 years signing "meh" players, then they'll have spent the last 3 years out of the playoffs. Why would any stars want to sign with a team like that in 2016? It'd look like a path to misery.

[DowJones]

You do not understand. I'm not saying it's only Celtics. I'm saying this

With Rondo-Love, Celtics have two young All-Star, they can attract a 1-2 important players in 2015 or 2016, I'm not saying just being the celtics.
Celtics and other serious franchise have shown that leverage their opportunities and are ambitious in their objectives. For example Memphis have a great project in the last years, but they never taken a step forward, even they have traded a major player like rudy gay. Or same thing OKC with harden
Celtics, miami, chicago, lakers, spurs, houston, GSW or suns, are reliable franchise, Love and others All-stars can be sure of being contender if they stay in those franchises.

I don't view Rondo the way you do. He is coming off of a serious ACL injury and he needs to prove himself without the Big-3. He struggles to score and he is a terrible shooter. I just want to get that out of the way from the start.

You are VASTLY overrating the importance of "being Boston" or "being Golden State". That doesn't promise you anything and I will not accept that as a reasonable predictor of future success. In what TANGIBLE way does "Being Boston" help? That is a lazy way of looking at things. If Boston had a tangible advantage of being in a sexy city then sure. They don't even have that.

The same argument you are making for Boston is one I can make for Cleveland

-All-Star PG (6 years younger than Rondo...)
-Some really talented young players that probably don't have superstar upside
-Enough Cap-Space for a max-contract FA

Even with that being said as a Cleveland fan I wouldn't want to trade the #1 pick UNLESS LeBron comes back. If Cleveland is able to set that up...a Big-3 of Irving/Love/James with youngsters like Waiters, Thompson, and Bennett to go with role players like Varejao and Jack...does that all of a sudden make Cleveland a "trusted franchise"? Afterall, just 4 years after starting from scratch they go out and put together an absolutely stacked roster that will be a title favorite for the next 5 years.

I already said that is not because just are the celtics or lakers, It is for being a reliable and ambitious franchise and as an extra the story-name
Love or another all-star never go to a franchise with decontrol of Cleveland, and even less with problems in their roster. Cleveland would have to make a big change of management to do that.
See if this is so, that even with the best player in the NBA, they were unable to make a competitive team for him, cleveland with lebron are: lebron + nothing/mediocrity.
You Imagine this in a serious franchise? in celtics, lakers or the others mentioned?
Only with Deng's opinion on Clevenad already should be enough to understand this.

You act like Cleveland's franchise will never have the ability to make good moves because they are "Cleveland". There is nothing real or tangible behind it. It is just something you say to make yourself feel better. Cleveland has a brand new GM and a brand new coach. Your argument isn't based on reality. It is based solely on feeling and that feeling is heavily based on you being a Boston homer.

"Don't worry guys, everything will be ok because we are Boston and we are winners. We can't stay down for long because we are Boston". Please. Nothing real behind that way of thinking.

[Doormatt]

???? the only contract we will have on the books is our pick from this year, i have no idea what youre talking about.

Apologies, you are talking about next year. I still don't see where this infinite capspace is coming from. Kobe's deal doesn't come off the book until two years from now, so are you expecting the Lakers to keep filling the roster with 1 year minimum players and hope for a big splash in 2016? If the Lakers signs any multi-year deal this or next offseason then that capspace won't be so infinite anymore.

lakers will have over 30 million in capspace in 2015. assuming the cap will be ~64 million. would be enough for two max contracts roughly. i imagine the target currently is love/gasol.

then the next season kobe will come off the books, which means an additonal 25 million to play with.

so yeah i would call that near infinite cap space for the lakers. its rare for us to even have enough room for 1 max, hasnt happened in a long time.

[Doormatt]

You act like Cleveland's franchise will never have the ability to make good moves because they are "Cleveland". There is nothing real or tangible behind it. It is just something you say to make yourself feel better. Cleveland has a brand new GM and a brand new coach. Your argument isn't based on reality. It is based solely on feeling and that feeling is heavily based on you being a Boston homer.

"Don't worry guys, everything will be ok because we are Boston and we are winners. We can't stay down for long because we are Boston". Please. Nothing real behind that way of thinking.

there is obviously something behind that logic, youd have to be real clueless to think otherwise. now that doesnt mean boston "deserves" to contend or automatically will be contenders because of the city, but there is quite obviously something to being a franchise like the lakers or celtics that gives them an advantage over everyone else. i would say less so for the celtics because boston is not a destination city like LA.

but i think bostons real downfall will be believing in rondo or trying to build around him.