Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[jpatrick]

Isn’t the most likely trade, unless a Beal/Lillard become available, either with the Spurs or Kings still?

Murray, White, and picks or Fox straight up.

I’d love the Wolves to swing a deal giving up picks, Beasley, and Prince, but I think Prince and some of those assets need to be swung to a third team for a PG. I don’t see a Murray, Brogdon, FVV being available for picks right now.

[Sportfan73]

No offense but your arguments are just so disingenuous. You must have pretended a million times like Wolves picks and swaps are so good and valuable and these swaps are going to convey while also thinking everyone on the Wolves is just so good that Simmons - a two time all-star - would be like the fourth best player on the team. So obviously you think the Wolves will be quite good and these picks pretty weak and the swaps worthless.

Wolves picks are so good and valuable in comparison to Nets or Bucks 1sts trades that are precedent in actual NBA. Prove me wrong?

You don’t think Wolves will be top 10 team even with Simmons? Or even sniff Bucks or Nets do you? That means 1st rewarded are going to be 19th or better for team receiving them. Once again, MUCH better asset than Nets or Bucks.

Now let’s break down swaps. You don’t really think Wolves will be better than 76ers do you? Means 76ers will actually get the swap (unlike 2021 Nets swap and most likely their other 3 owed). Once again, better asset than Nets or Bucks.

Should Simmons get better value than Holiday? Maybe. Should Simmons get more value than Harden? No way.

You can't really look at things so superficially can you?

1. If Simmons is the 4th best player on the Wolves, why wouldn't they be better than the Sixers where he was the 2nd best player? Is Embiid just individually so much better than KAT, your new savior Edwards, or DLO? Which leads to the second point:

2. What if Embiid gets injured? Still think those swaps are valuable?

3. And the real problem with your reliance on the Harden trade. 1. Harden had 1.5 years left on his contract and is 31. 2. Simmons has four years and is 25. So two big differences here. First, there was no guarantee Harden was going to extend so you had a real risk of him leaving - not even so much for the Nets but for everyone else who might otherwise bid thereby depressing the auction price. But more importantly, there is significant upside that the picks at the end of this deal will be very good because Brooklyn's core will be in their mid 30's at that point. The Wolves core would be significantly younger at the end of the picks and so there is much less upside to them.

TL/DR - Keep on misrepresenting things to make your trash offer seem legitimate.

Also Houston took that package because they WANTED to be bad, and it got them the 2nd pick. Philly literally wants to contend immediately so it’s not comparable at all!

[Pumpkin17]

Honestly LOSE/LOSE trade here.

Simmons is not helping anyone contending, while Draymond is a sure thing (albeit aging) in the GS system who contributed to multiple banners.

Sixers want to win now and Green doesn't solve the problems Simmons presents, namely spacing, while also being not a sure thing in another system. Sixers would need another kind of player to improve their chances.

[cool93]

3x 1sts + 4x Swaps got Harden from Harden/KD/Irving Nets.
2x 1sts + 2x Swaps got Holiday from best team in NBA with Giannis.

Nets also traded Allen and LeVert, neither of whom were in prison, so they were actual assets.
Holiday is significantly older, had injury history and had 1 year on his deal.

Other than that, you made some valid points, it's just if Wolves aren't giving anything of value except picks, it would have to be all the picks, not couple, considering that Simmons is a very good floor raiser in RS.

[Wolveswin]

Can Rockets and 76ers play nice? If they can, I don’t think they have desire for Simmons or Morey would trade him there.

To Rockets: Harris + McDaniels + Beverley (buyout?) + 2023 Wolves 1st

To 76ers: Wood + Wall + Beasley + 2022, 24, 26 Wolves 1st Swap + 2025 Wolves 1st

Wolves: Simmons + Filler

Rockets take on Harris but send out Wall — showcase Harris for later flip. They get more rebuild capital.

76ers hope Wall on a good team can have a Westbrook resurgence.
Embiid
Wood
Green/Thybulle
Beasley | Curry
Wall | Maxey

Wolves get Simmons.

[BullyKing]

2x 1sts Unprotected (2023 & 2025), with 2025 when possible Towns and/or Russell could be out of MN.

3x Swaps (22, 24, 26), with 2024 when possible Towns and/or Russell could be out of MN and 26 when all 3 including Simmons could be elsewhere.

Do you really not see what you are doing? You're answer to my point about the future picks is well, Towns and/or Russell could not be in Minnesota then. Yes, obviously. But might/could/potentially is a lot different than the guarantee that Irving, Durant, and Harden will continue to get older - that is not a variable like everything you are relying on.

[Wolveswin]

3x 1sts + 4x Swaps got Harden from Harden/KD/Irving Nets.
2x 1sts + 2x Swaps got Holiday from best team in NBA with Giannis.

Nets also traded Allen and LeVert, neither of whom were in prison, so they were actual assets.
Holiday is significantly older, had injury history and had 1 year on his deal.

Other than that, you made some valid points, it's just if Wolves aren't giving anything of value except picks, it would have to be all the picks, not couple, considering that Simmons is a very good floor raiser in RS.

And for the Wolves player part of the deal, they would be offering Beasley, Beverley and/or Prince plus the point of negotiation name McDaniels. If no McDaniels, add a protected 2027 1st.

[Wolveswin]

2x 1sts Unprotected (2023 & 2025), with 2025 when possible Towns and/or Russell could be out of MN.

3x Swaps (22, 24, 26), with 2024 when possible Towns and/or Russell could be out of MN and 26 when all 3 including Simmons could be elsewhere.

Do you really not see what you are doing? You're answer to my point about the future picks is well, Towns and/or Russell could not be in Minnesota then. Yes, obviously. But might/could/potentially is a lot different than the guarantee that Irving, Durant, and Harden will continue to get older - that is not a variable like everything you are relying on.

No, my answer is Wolves too have variables to consider. Not saying they are same as Father Time. But come on you can’t be that dismissive?!?

Those later Nets 1sts are the only juicy part of the Harden deal. Wolves 1sts are juicier from the get go (vs. Bucks or Nets)! As for the latter ones, we would wait and see which variables change the outcomes more.

[cool93]

And for the Wolves player part of the deal, they would be offering Beasley, Beverley and/or Prince plus the point of negotiation name McDaniels. If no McDaniels, add a protected 2027 1st.

Beasley just got out of prison, he has no value. Beverley just gor traded twice for packages with about neutral value. That's salary fillers, not assets.

[NW]

Contrary to the “Draymond and Simmons can’t play together” theory. If GS was to acquire Simmons, it would be to play with Dray. Gives them two top defenders (three if Klay comes back close to what he was) and a much needed additional playmaker. Subtract Dray and you have the same top defender and playmakers you started with. Just younger.

Won’t work for GS, won’t work for Philly cause Morey wants a star and Simmons is the only bullet in his chamber to get one (not trading Embid obviously).

So, it’s a standstill until a star becomes available os Simmons and Klutch turn up the pressure. Neither scenario likely until training camp at the earliest

[Topofthekey]

It doesnt make sense for the Blazers nor the Sixers.

I'm sorry, did you say trading CJ McCollum for Anthony Edwards and Myles Turner doesn't name sense for the Blazers?

[Wolveswin]

And for the Wolves player part of the deal, they would be offering Beasley, Beverley and/or Prince plus the point of negotiation name McDaniels. If no McDaniels, add a protected 2027 1st.

Beasley just got out of prison, he has no value. Beverley just gor traded twice for packages with about neutral value. That's salary fillers, not assets.

No doubt. But salary filler is required in NBA. Beasley I would argue with you. And if 76ers don’t value him, GLADLY keep him out of deal. I want him on Wolves with Simmons. And when he is further removed from his legal recourse, splashing down 3’s again, he won’t be the buy low candidate he is now. He has the NBA ability to make some very sorry teams didn’t acquire him in trade (when value low). We will see.

For the record it was a jail not a prison. Think more Barney Fife and less Andrew Dufresne.

[Karmaloop]

What cost is MIN paying here? A young guy that looks like a nice role player (McDaniels), a gunner (Beasley) and some picks that likely end up in the 20's?

MIN is like PDX, they need to trade for stars. If they can get Simmons locked up for role players and late picks, they do it. Albeit I dont think that foursome has any sort of leadership traits or moxie to make it deep into the POs.

The problem I'm seeing is that I don't think you're getting Simmons for a few role players and some draft picks. Or at least I can't imagine Morey settling for that package.

[gswhoops]

I don’t think either side would have any interest in Green for Simmons to be honest.

If there’s a deal to be had it’s Wiggins + assets for Simmons, likely involving a third team to get Philly a win-now guard.

[Nate the Great]

I don’t think either side would have any interest in Green for Simmons to be honest.

If there’s a deal to be had it’s Wiggins + assets for Simmons, likely involving a third team to get Philly a win-now guard.

Can the Warriors then send Simmons to a team for which he makes sense, and get back a small forward?

[cool93]

No doubt. But salary filler is required in NBA. Beasley I would argue with you. And if 76ers don’t value him, GLADLY keep him out of deal. I want him on Wolves with Simmons. And when he is further removed from his legal recourse, splashing down 3’s again, he won’t be the buy low candidate he is now. He has the NBA ability to make some very sorry teams didn’t acquire him in trade (when value low). We will see.

For the record it was a jail not a prison. Think more Barney Fife and less Andrew Dufresne.

Yeah, I'd be more than fine with Wolves keeping Beasley while giving more picks.
Beverley+Prince as fillers + 22, 24, 26, 28 1sts top 4 protected + swaps I'd probably do.
And I honestly think it would be a steal for Wolves.

[BlazersBroncos]

Indiana trades:

Myles Turner
Malcolm Brogdon

Indiana receives:

Ben Simmons
Seth Curry

Philadelphia trades:

Ben Simmons
Seth Curry

Philadelphia receives:

CJ McCollum
Robert Covington

Portland trades:

CJ McCollum
Robert Covington

Portland receives:

Pascal Siakam
Chris Boucher

Toronto trades:

Pascal Siakam
Chris Boucher

Toronto receives:

Myles Turner
Malcolm Brogdon

Indiana gets a star for the first time in a long while. Ben Simmons slots in at PF while the Pacers also clean up the log-jam at center. Chris Duarte looks plenty ready to take over much of Brogdon's role.

Philadelphia gets a guy in McCollum who is elite in the three areas the Sixers are most lacking: pick-and-roll ball-handling, catch and shoot 3 point shooting and isolation scoring. Roco isn't as good defensively as Simmons but he is really solid at that end and is also a solid catch and shoot guy.

Portland clears up the log-jam at guard while addressing the lack of quality forwards on the roster. Siakam is one of the most well rounded forwards in the league while Boucher is a veteran 3 and D guy.

Toronto gets a solid upgrade at center in Turner and a go-to guy in Brogdon. Barnes looks ready to slot in a forward alongside OG.

I tihnk PDX needs to add 2 FRP to get this off the ground.

I think it could be simplified:

PDX OUT - CJ McCollum, Derrick Jones Jr, 2022 FRP, 2024 FRP
PDX IN - Ben Simmons

PHI OUT - Ben Simmons
PHI IN - CJ McCollum, Chris Boucher, 2024 FRP, 2023 TOR SRP

TOR OUT - Chris Boucher, 2023 TOR SRP
TOR IN - Derrick Jones Jr, 2022 PDX FRP

That's fine and dandy but I'd rather get Siakam than Simmons which is why I don't have Simmons going to Portland. Let somebody else give up picks for Simmons if that's what it takes.

I much prefer Pascal as well, I just dont think TOR is moving him.

[VDT]

It doesnt make sense for the Blazers nor the Sixers.

I'm sorry, did you say trading CJ McCollum for Anthony Edwards and Myles Turner doesn't name sense for the Blazers?

Yes, if they are keeping Lillard they are trying to win now. They are not winning anything with 20 year old guys. The Blazers need win now talent, better than CJ.

[Wolveswin]

It doesnt make sense for the Blazers nor the Sixers.

I'm sorry, did you say trading CJ McCollum for Anthony Edwards and Myles Turner doesn't name sense for the Blazers?

Yes, if they are keeping Lillard they are trying to win now. They are not winning anything with 20 year old guys. The Blazers need win now talent, better than CJ.

Wrong thread.

[Wolveswin]

No doubt. But salary filler is required in NBA. Beasley I would argue with you. And if 76ers don’t value him, GLADLY keep him out of deal. I want him on Wolves with Simmons. And when he is further removed from his legal recourse, splashing down 3’s again, he won’t be the buy low candidate he is now. He has the NBA ability to make some very sorry teams didn’t acquire him in trade (when value low). We will see.

For the record it was a jail not a prison. Think more Barney Fife and less Andrew Dufresne.

Yeah, I'd be more than fine with Wolves keeping Beasley while giving more picks.
Beverley+Prince as fillers + 22, 24, 26, 28 1sts top 4 protected + swaps I'd probably do.
And I honestly think it would be a steal for Wolves.

I highly doubt Wolves go out 4 draft picks owed. Maybe if McDaniels AND Beasley not in player part of deal AND protections on 2028 for sure (maybe others too).