Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

[cool93]

No doubt. But salary filler is required in NBA. Beasley I would argue with you. And if 76ers don’t value him, GLADLY keep him out of deal. I want him on Wolves with Simmons. And when he is further removed from his legal recourse, splashing down 3’s again, he won’t be the buy low candidate he is now. He has the NBA ability to make some very sorry teams didn’t acquire him in trade (when value low). We will see.

For the record it was a jail not a prison. Think more Barney Fife and less Andrew Dufresne.

Yeah, I'd be more than fine with Wolves keeping Beasley while giving more picks.
Beverley+Prince as fillers + 22, 24, 26, 28 1sts top 4 protected + swaps I'd probably do.
And I honestly think it would be a steal for Wolves.

I highly doubt Wolves go out 4 draft picks owed. Maybe if McDaniels AND Beasley not in player part of deal AND protections on 2028 for sure (maybe others too).

Beasley and McDaniels aren't in it. Beverley and Prince are. And all of the picks are top4 protected.

[JRoy]

Sixers need win now talent not future picks. And win now isn't salary dumps like Wiggins/CJ. They need iso creator guard play in the half court who can at least hold their own on defense (doesn' t have to be a great defender but can't be a poor defender like Seth Curry because you can't play them both on the same floor at the same time). Very few of those types of players are available. That's why it's so hard to find a package for simmons.

So a third team will need to be available. Basically sixers need someone like a Brodgon PLUS Beasley/future first round picks for Simmons. Brodgon is so injury prone so he's extremly risky but those two salaries would fit

It won't solve all of the sixers problems because I'm hesistant to put anyting on Bealsey either because he's one step away from being thrown out of the NBA and while he's a very good shooter, a lot of those points are empty stats on a bad team.

It’s also hard to find a deal for Young Socialite because PHI fans Vaud him more highly than do fans of other teams.

As has been demonstrated, POR values YS at CJ+ as PHI values him at Lillard for YS+

[Nate the Great]

Simmons and Harris for Wiggins, Green, and Kuminga could work

Why do the Warriors do that? A trade has to make sense for both teams.

[Karmaloop]

Personally, I think Daryl Morey is too proud/stubborn to trade Ben Simmons for role players and a treasure trove of picks. But if Minnesota has the most desire to make a move, they could make a good partner sending Patrick Beverley, Malik Beasley, Taurean Prince, and any combination of picks and pick swaps.

[Karmaloop]

There is no trade between Phl and Min that doesn't include Edwards. I don't even know why I keep seeing stuff like that.

If Edwards were already on the table, don't you think a deal would have been made already? Simmons value is at an all-time low right now. He was MIA in the playoffs, he's due nearly $150M over the next 4 years, and he now apparently doesn't want anything to do with the Sixers. His value is a fraction of what it was just a calendar year ago.

[VeritasTri]

There is no trade between Phl and Min that doesn't include Edwards. I don't even know why I keep seeing stuff like that.

Edwards is more valuable than Simmons and hasnt cut off communication from his team while he waits to be traded.

You should embrace your Malik Beasley future.

[kuclas]

There is no trade between Phl and Min that doesn't include Edwards. I don't even know why I keep seeing stuff like that.

Edwards is more valuable than Simmons and hasnt cut off communication from his team while he waits to be traded.

You should embrace your Malik Beasley future.

Sixers are fine with or without Simmons as long as Embiid is upright.

Simmons for regular season is very good and able to maintain sixers while Embiid is injuried.

So as long as Simmons is happy not playing and not getting paid, Sixers can maintain status quo.

Klutch sports has zero leverage here on player with 4 years left. He can choose not to communicate for all he wants.

[JojoSlimbiid]

There is no trade between Phl and Min that doesn't include Edwards. I don't even know why I keep seeing stuff like that.

Of course there is, don’t be silly.

Harden and Holiday (amongst others over time) were acquired with just picks package. We know a 3rd team is required because 76ers don’t want just picks. With that said, a 3rd team is needed if Edwards is involved too. 76ers aren’t offering Embiid a sophomore as his running mate.

There is no indication Simmons would like to go Minny so there is no leverage for a poopoo platter of picks like is the case for Houston in addition the 76ers aren't a team looking for boatloads of picks regardless of what is being "reported" on. They are a team trying to contend. And finally there isn't an animus between owner and former GM like existed with the Harden situation

Let's get a bit grounded in our discussions here. Anthony Edwards will not be a Timberwolf with Ben Simmons.

It's just really annoying reading all this stuff from people overvaluing the guy on their team.

No Ben Simmons isn't getting you Lillard by himself

No your not getting Ben Simmons without giving up Anthony Edwards.

[JojoSlimbiid]

There is no trade between Phl and Min that doesn't include Edwards. I don't even know why I keep seeing stuff like that.

If Edwards were already on the table, don't you think a deal would have been made already? Simmons value is at an all-time low right now. He was MIA in the playoffs, he's due nearly $150M over the next 4 years, and he now apparently doesn't want anything to do with the Sixers. His value is a fraction of what it was just a calendar year ago.

No lol...what the ****? This is a team trying to win a championship next year.Taking on a 20 year old who is still learning how to play NBA basketball isn't going to win ****. They clearly want Lillard but they will eventually settle for Edwards.

[JojoSlimbiid]

There is no trade between Phl and Min that doesn't include Edwards. I don't even know why I keep seeing stuff like that.

Edwards is more valuable than Simmons and hasnt cut off communication from his team while he waits to be traded.

You should embrace your Malik Beasley future.

More valuable according to who? Realgm in which all that matters is players makeshift "ceilings" and about having as much "prospects" as possible....than yeah Edwards is more valuable.

To a team that just got sold to a new ownership group who want to move the team(I don't give a damn what they say publicly) whose two best players play no defense and whose franchise has made the playoffs one time in the last what 14-15 years...yeah Simmons is more valuable.

[cjmcallist]

What? Are you just messing around with semantics or do you have something more to add?

No you are the one that said “only if they can sign Simmons.” What do you mean sign?

Ok, being pedantic or (willfully) dumb, got it. Good stuff

Sharpy- I wanted to understand what you were saying about Dlo and Simmons. But I was confused because you seemed to say that you thought the Wolves would prefer to sign Simmons to a contract - which of course they cannot do because he’s still under contract with the Sixers.

So, I’m wondering if you meant to say “sign” or maybe you meant to say “trade for”?

[Commodor]

Question: Since Draymond threw his coach, GM and organization under the bus... does Draymond's trade value drop as much as folks have been saying Ben Simmons' value has dropped from Ben "wanting out" because Doc "threw him under the bus"?

It's a valid question.

We'll see the fallout from the Draymond talk but you gotta remember that Draymond, Kerr and Myers have known and worked with each other for almost a decade now. They know what limits can be pushed and those that can't.

Simmons-Morey-Doc is literally brand new. Things can be taken out of context much more easily.

Also, the reason Ben Simmons value is dropping is because his playoff performance and *apparently* wanting out of the organization. Having a sour relationship with the team doesn't help as it causes the team to lose leverage. If Ben is willing to play for the 6ers this season then they gain a lot of leverage regardless of who threw who under the bus.

Draymond by all accounts wants to stay, so it would be GSW shopping him if anything. They would have all the leverage as they could simply keep him if they don't like what's on the market.

And that's my TED talk.

[Commodor]

Draymond + Kuminga to POR

CJ + ? to Philly

Simmons to GSW

Or something built upon that

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

I can promise you GSW would expect CJ + assets for Draymond.

There is absolutely zero chance Kuminga, Poole, Moody or Wiseman would be going to POR in a trade like this. Portland would have to send an asset to Philly and Kuminga would be routed to Philly with whatever else Philly wanted from Portland & CJ.

[Scoot McGroot]

Indiana trades:

Myles Turner
Malcolm Brogdon

Indiana receives:

Ben Simmons
Seth Curry

Philadelphia trades:

Ben Simmons
Seth Curry

Philadelphia receives:

CJ McCollum
Robert Covington

Portland trades:

CJ McCollum
Robert Covington

Portland receives:

Pascal Siakam
Chris Boucher

Toronto trades:

Pascal Siakam
Chris Boucher

Toronto receives:

Myles Turner
Malcolm Brogdon

Indiana gets a star for the first time in a long while. Ben Simmons slots in at PF while the Pacers also clean up the log-jam at center. Chris Duarte looks plenty ready to take over much of Brogdon's role.

Philadelphia gets a guy in McCollum who is elite in the three areas the Sixers are most lacking: pick-and-roll ball-handling, catch and shoot 3 point shooting and isolation scoring. Roco isn't as good defensively as Simmons but he is really solid at that end and is also a solid catch and shoot guy.

Portland clears up the log-jam at guard while addressing the lack of quality forwards on the roster. Siakam is one of the most well rounded forwards in the league while Boucher is a veteran 3 and D guy.

Toronto gets a solid upgrade at center in Turner and a go-to guy in Brogdon. Barnes looks ready to slot in a forward alongside OG.

I tihnk PDX needs to add 2 FRP to get this off the ground.

I think it could be simplified:

PDX OUT - CJ McCollum, Derrick Jones Jr, 2022 FRP, 2024 FRP
PDX IN - Ben Simmons

PHI OUT - Ben Simmons
PHI IN - CJ McCollum, Chris Boucher, 2024 FRP, 2023 TOR SRP

TOR OUT - Chris Boucher, 2023 TOR SRP
TOR IN - Derrick Jones Jr, 2022 PDX FRP

That's fine and dandy but I'd rather get Siakam than Simmons which is why I don't have Simmons going to Portland. Let somebody else give up picks for Simmons if that's what it takes.

The problem is, you've pretty much created a swap where you valued all 4 packages as being very equal and they just shifted in a circle. Except, at least one of the packages is worth very much less than the other 3. And another one is probably a decent amount less than the other 2.

[Baseline81]

There is no trade between Phl and Min that doesn't include Edwards. I don't even know why I keep seeing stuff like that.

If you keep seeing stuff like that, you must also "keep seeing" how a deal will involve a third team.

[Scoot McGroot]

It doesnt make sense for the Blazers nor the Sixers.

I'm sorry, did you say trading CJ McCollum for Anthony Edwards and Myles Turner doesn't name sense for the Blazers?

Yes, if they are keeping Lillard they are trying to win now. They are not winning anything with 20 year old guys. The Blazers need win now talent, better than CJ.

Yeah, I think they do that with Edwards and Turner. I think Dame would be pretty stoked if the team made this trade. Better now, and in the future? Sounds like a great step for Portland...

[VeritasTri]

More valuable according to who? Realgm in which all that matters is players makeshift "ceilings" and about having as much "prospects" as possible....than yeah Edwards is more valuable.

To a team that just got sold to a new ownership group who want to move the team(I don't give a damn what they say publicly) whose two best players play no defense and whose franchise has made the playoffs one time in the last what 14-15 years...yeah Simmons is more valuable.

More valuable according to the reality of how player value is calculated.

Simmons is now a known quantity that will definitely improve a team with his defense/passing/intangibles, but will never be a 1st or even 2nd option or go to guy. The very reason Philly is desperate for a shot creator and primary perimeter ball handler is due to the value and scarcity of high end players of that type.

Edwards just put up 23.8/5.3/3.4 for half a season as a 19 year old. Hes got elite athleticism, great size/length/strength for a SG, and has the mentality of a true #1 option. He has REAL #1 scorer/3 level scoring/superstar potential, and nobody is trading that for a guy who will be at best a 3rd option super role player who gets paid 4X as much.

[VDT]

I'm sorry, did you say trading CJ McCollum for Anthony Edwards and Myles Turner doesn't name sense for the Blazers?

Yes, if they are keeping Lillard they are trying to win now. They are not winning anything with 20 year old guys. The Blazers need win now talent, better than CJ.

Yeah, I think they do that with Edwards and Turner. I think Dame would be pretty stoked if the team made this trade. Better now, and in the future? Sounds like a great step for Portland...

Lillard is 31, a 20 year old is not going to help him now and he doesnt have the time to see if Edwards can become something in this league in 5 years. If such a trade were to materialize he would probably demand a trade. The only reasonable paths for the Blazers are either to trade Lillard and rebuild or trade CJ + whatever picks they can give for a better player and hope it will be enough. Trading for Edwards would make sense only if they are taking path 1, i.e trade Lillard and rebuild.

[Commodor]

I think a Simmons trade will come down to roughly these three options:

GSW Out: Wiggins, Kuminga, 2022 1st unprotected, 2026 or 7 1st unprotected.

Sac Out: Fox & Hield for Simmons & Thybulle

MIN Out: Beasley, Prince & multiple picks (not exactly sure how many but probably 3+ FRP)

3rd teams may be involved but I do not see these teams really exceeding these offers by much.

Philly probably keeps him into the reg season unless they get desperate in the end.

[parsnips33]

Draymond to Ben Simmons is a downgrade. I understand the team seems to be valuing youth, but I'd have no interest in that swap.