CHA/UTA/CLE/PHI

[No Offense]

That's only one metric. The body of work says otherwise.

PER is a combination of that body of work (points, rebounds, assists, etc.)

Young's per 36 over the past 3 seasons (221 games)
16.5 points, 7.4 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 1.6 steals, 0.7 blocks, .548 TS, 18.5 PER

Varejao's per 36 over the past 3 seasons (81 games)
12.2 points, 12.8 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 1.3 steals, 0.9 blocks, .544 TS, 18.4 PER

Why are their PERs so close? Because he did put up kinda close numbers, overall.

Not to mention that Varejao's PER was 21.71 last year. He's been getting better with age.

Which he did for 25 games. Young has been pretty consistent for the past 200+ games. Hmm, would I (or anyone) have more confidence in Young replicating next season what he's done for the past 200 games, or in Varejao replicating next season what he's done for the past 25 games?

The scoring is what is skewing those numbers to make them even. I'd take a little less scoring in exchange for everything else being better.

There was legitimate talk of Varejao being an all star last season before it was derailed by injuries. When's the last time anybody ever had that discussion about Young?

Varejao was a beast last year. I trust that he will be back this year pick up where he left off. There are less minutes to go around at PF/C this season, so his raw numbers may not be what they were. But I fully expect his per-36 numbers to be in line with last season. It wasn't a fluke by any means.

[HornetJail]

The scoring is what is skewing those numbers to make them even. I'd take a little less scoring in exchange for everything else being better.

There was legitimate talk of Varejao being an all star last season before it was derailed by injuries. When's the last time anybody ever had that discussion about Young?

Varejao was a beast last year. I trust that he will be back this year pick up where he left off. There are less minutes to go around at PF/C this season, so his raw numbers may not be what they were. But I fully expect his per-36 numbers to be in line with last season. It wasn't a fluke by any means.

When was the last time Thaddeus Young missed 2/3 of his games over the course of three years?

[sixerswillrule]

PER is a combination of that body of work (points, rebounds, assists, etc.)

Young's per 36 over the past 3 seasons (221 games)
16.5 points, 7.4 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 1.6 steals, 0.7 blocks, .548 TS, 18.5 PER

Varejao's per 36 over the past 3 seasons (81 games)
12.2 points, 12.8 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 1.3 steals, 0.9 blocks, .544 TS, 18.4 PER

Why are their PERs so close? Because he did put up kinda close numbers, overall.

Not to mention that Varejao's PER was 21.71 last year. He's been getting better with age.

Which he did for 25 games. Young has been pretty consistent for the past 200+ games. Hmm, would I (or anyone) have more confidence in Young replicating next season what he's done for the past 200 games, or in Varejao replicating next season what he's done for the past 25 games?

The scoring is what is skewing those numbers to make them even. I'd take a little less scoring in exchange for everything else being better.

Everything else as in rebounding? Because everything else other than that is mostly a wash. I already conceded that what doesn't show up statistically (size and defense) gives Varejao the edge, but statistically, overall, they are about even, as PER indicates. Yeah, I guess you could also argue that Varejao's rebounding edge is more valuable than Young's scoring edge than PER gives credit for.

There was legitimate talk of Varejao being an all star last season before it was derailed by injuries. When's the last time anybody ever had that discussion about Young?

For such a small sample size (which you continue to focus on), I'm sure Young has had a great 25 game stretch or two that came close.

Varejao was a beast last year. I trust that he will be back this year pick up where he left off. There are less minutes to go around at PF/C this season, so his raw numbers may not be what they were. But I fully expect his per-36 numbers to be in line with last season. It wasn't a fluke by any means.

There's no reason to trust it. I'm not saying it isn't possible for him to do it again, because it is, and you may very well end up being right. But any logical person would trust the first 444 games and 11,000 minutes of Varejao's career as opposed to the last 25 games and 900 minutes.

[the_process]

Because he didn't put up kinda close numbers?

It doesn't matter... We don't want a 31 year old. That's the thing, especially if you factor in injury issues.

If you would have framed your argument like that in the first place, I wouldn't have cared. But you said the following:

Young>AV and we don't want a player like Andy AT ALL!

There's literally nothing about Young that is ">" than AV. I've done a sufficient enough job of proving that. Good day.

Lets not go overboard here, TYoung>>Varejao when it comes to scoring. So "literally nothing" is both semantically and factually incorrect.

[HornetJail]

Lets not go overboard here, TYoung>>Varejao when it comes to scoring. So "literally nothing" is both semantically and factually incorrect.

Even that isn't even completely fair to AV. This season, Varejao scored 14+ per on 53 TS%, Young scored 14+ on 54 TS%. Hardly enough difference to warrant two ">" marks.

Varejao averaged 14/14, 3.4apg, and was one of the better defensive bigs in the league last year. When both are healthy, Young barely holds a candle to that. The problem is that Varejao is rarely healthy. I think this evens out their value.

[sixerswillrule]

Lets not go overboard here, TYoung>>Varejao when it comes to scoring. So "literally nothing" is both semantically and factually incorrect.

Even that isn't even completely fair to AV. This season, Varejao scored 14+ per on 53 TS%, Young scored 14+ on 54 TS%. Hardly enough difference to warrant two ">" marks.

Varejao averaged 14/14, 3.4apg, and was one of the better defensive bigs in the league last year. When both are healthy, Young barely holds a candle to that. The problem is that Varejao is rarely healthy. I think this evens out their value.

The problem is also that those numbers are from a 25 game period, which I've mentioned several times already. When both are healthy, I wouldn't expect Varejao to reproduce those numbers.

I'm not saying it isn't possible for him to do it again, because it is, and you may very well end up being right. But any logical person would trust the first 444 games and 11,000 minutes of Varejao's career as opposed to the last 25 games and 900 minutes.

[the_process]

Lets not go overboard here, TYoung>>Varejao when it comes to scoring. So "literally nothing" is both semantically and factually incorrect.

Even that isn't even completely fair to AV. This season, Varejao scored 14+ per on 53 TS%, Young scored 14+ on 54 TS%. Hardly enough difference to warrant two ">" marks.

Varejao averaged 14/14, 3.4apg, and was one of the better defensive bigs in the league last year. When both are healthy, Young barely holds a candle to that. The problem is that Varejao is rarely healthy. I think this evens out their value.

Last season's 25 game sample size is not an accurate portrayal of Varejao's career, however. Listen, I'm not debating when healthy Varejao is a better player... but if other dude is going to try and make out as if AV is LeBron or something then yeah, that's an issue, that's all

[TheOUTLAW]

I don't see the Cavs trading Varejao for that package. He's a big and a very valuable defensive player. There's a reason that he was on the court to close out the vast majority of the Cavs games. He makes good things happen. I also don't think that Young gives the outside shooting that the Cavs would need at the 3 spot.

[Mr Loggins]

Having never seen Thad young play , what exactly does he bring to a team? His numbers suggest someone for who you would have a tough time filling a team around.....

[sixerswillrule]

Having never seen Thad young play , what exactly does he bring to a team? His numbers suggest someone for who you would have a tough time filling a team around.....

Seriously? You haven't seen a Sixers game in the last 6 years?

[Mr Loggins]

Having never seen Thad young play , what exactly does he bring to a team? His numbers suggest someone for who you would have a tough time filling a team around.....

Seriously? You haven't seen a Sixers game in the last 6 years?

that's right. I miss anything good??

[the_process]

Having never seen Thad young play , what exactly does he bring to a team? His numbers suggest someone for who you would have a tough time filling a team around.....

Seriously? You haven't seen a Sixers game in the last 6 years?

that's right. I miss anything good??

Lol. Touché. Thad would work well with a shot blocker and a stretch big so he can slash and work some in the post and use his some midrange game.

[No Offense]

There was legitimate talk of Varejao being an all star last season before it was derailed by injuries. When's the last time anybody ever had that discussion about Young?

For such a small sample size (which you continue to focus on), I'm sure Young has had a great 25 game stretch or two that came close.

Well, where is it? Let's see that 25 game stretch where Young put up those numbers.

Varejao was a beast last year. I trust that he will be back this year pick up where he left off. There are less minutes to go around at PF/C this season, so his raw numbers may not be what they were. But I fully expect his per-36 numbers to be in line with last season. It wasn't a fluke by any means.

There's no reason to trust it. I'm not saying it isn't possible for him to do it again, because it is, and you may very well end up being right. But any logical person would trust the first 444 games and 11,000 minutes of Varejao's career as opposed to the last 25 games and 900 minutes.

Varejao became a much better player in the past few years. He was strictly an energy big off the bench for the first few years of his career. Hell, he couldn't even start over Drew Gooden. And he put up 14, 14 and 3 in his most recent campaign.

I trust he will continue to play at a higher level than Young. I watch him play and see that he is a completely different player now than he was from 2004-2010.

[No Offense]

It doesn't matter... We don't want a 31 year old. That's the thing, especially if you factor in injury issues.

If you would have framed your argument like that in the first place, I wouldn't have cared. But you said the following:

Young>AV and we don't want a player like Andy AT ALL!

There's literally nothing about Young that is ">" than AV. I've done a sufficient enough job of proving that. Good day.

Lets not go overboard here, TYoung>>Varejao when it comes to scoring. So "literally nothing" is both semantically and factually incorrect.

Fine, Young is a better scorer than Varejao despite scoring the same amount of points on more shot attempts.

[No Offense]

Lets not go overboard here, TYoung>>Varejao when it comes to scoring. So "literally nothing" is both semantically and factually incorrect.

Even that isn't even completely fair to AV. This season, Varejao scored 14+ per on 53 TS%, Young scored 14+ on 54 TS%. Hardly enough difference to warrant two ">" marks.

Varejao averaged 14/14, 3.4apg, and was one of the better defensive bigs in the league last year. When both are healthy, Young barely holds a candle to that. The problem is that Varejao is rarely healthy. I think this evens out their value.

The problem is also that those numbers are from a 25 game period, which I've mentioned several times already. When both are healthy, I wouldn't expect Varejao to reproduce those numbers.

I'm not saying it isn't possible for him to do it again, because it is, and you may very well end up being right. But any logical person would trust the first 444 games and 11,000 minutes of Varejao's career as opposed to the last 25 games and 900 minutes.

Why not? Because he doesn't wear a 76ers jersey? Look, he did put those number up. Young didn't. You're arguing that your guy is better because the guy who plays on the Cavs won't put up the same numbers moving forward. What you are basing this one is beyond me.

[No Offense]

Lets not go overboard here, TYoung>>Varejao when it comes to scoring. So "literally nothing" is both semantically and factually incorrect.

Even that isn't even completely fair to AV. This season, Varejao scored 14+ per on 53 TS%, Young scored 14+ on 54 TS%. Hardly enough difference to warrant two ">" marks.

Varejao averaged 14/14, 3.4apg, and was one of the better defensive bigs in the league last year. When both are healthy, Young barely holds a candle to that. The problem is that Varejao is rarely healthy. I think this evens out their value.

Last season's 25 game sample size is not an accurate portrayal of Varejao's career, however. Listen, I'm not debating when healthy Varejao is a better player... but if other dude is going to try and make out as if AV is LeBron or something then yeah, that's an issue, that's all

That's where you're wrong. We are debating whether or not Young is better than Varejao. In fact, the erason this debate even started up is because a 76ers fan wrote "Young > AV."

I said early on in the thread that if people want to argue that AV is injury-prone, then they'd have a good point. But that wasn't the way the argument was framed.

It was literally presented as Thaddeus Young being better than Anderson Varejao. Only after I shot that down did the direction of the debate turn to Andy being injury-prone.

[eliasrapp98]

If you would have framed your argument like that in the first place, I wouldn't have cared. But you said the following:



There's literally nothing about Young that is ">" than AV. I've done a sufficient enough job of proving that. Good day.

Lets not go overboard here, TYoung>>Varejao when it comes to scoring. So "literally nothing" is both semantically and factually incorrect.

Fine, Young is a better scorer than Varejao despite scoring the same amount of points on more shot attempts.

Look at the FG%. Thad- 53%, Andy- 47%

That's a huge difference. Also Andy only played 25 games and scored 4 more PPG than last season. That's clearly a fluke. He's over 30 so he didn't just suddenly get better. It was just a smaller sample size. Here's the truth, Thad is 6 years younger, a far better scorer, and is on a better contract. I'd rather have that than a more expensive, 31 year old, rebounding, PF.

[No Offense]

Lets not go overboard here, TYoung>>Varejao when it comes to scoring. So "literally nothing" is both semantically and factually incorrect.

Fine, Young is a better scorer than Varejao despite scoring the same amount of points on more shot attempts.

Look at the FG%. Thad- 53%, Andy- 47%

That's a huge difference. Also Andy only played 25 games and scored 4 more PPG than last season. That's clearly a fluke. He's over 30 so he didn't just suddenly get better. It was just a smaller sample size. Here's the truth, Thad is 6 years younger, a far better scorer, and is on a better contract. I'd rather have that than a more expensive, 31 year old, rebounding, PF.

Then explain to me how the "far better scorer" needed more shot attempts to score the same amount of points.

Andy DID get better in his late 20's.

[eliasrapp98]

Fine, Young is a better scorer than Varejao despite scoring the same amount of points on more shot attempts.

Look at the FG%. Thad- 53%, Andy- 47%

That's a huge difference. Also Andy only played 25 games and scored 4 more PPG than last season. That's clearly a fluke. He's over 30 so he didn't just suddenly get better. It was just a smaller sample size. Here's the truth, Thad is 6 years younger, a far better scorer, and is on a better contract. I'd rather have that than a more expensive, 31 year old, rebounding, PF.

Then explain to me how the "far better scorer" needed more shot attempts to score the same amount of points.

Andy DID get better in his late 20's.

He took 1 more shot attempt and made it more often as Thad is a much more efficient scorer... Also Andy was consistently an under 11 point scorer per year for his first 9 seasons so I doubt that he just suddenly got better this year. Only playing 25 games usually helps pad your stats if you were on a good run.

[No Offense]

Look at the FG%. Thad- 53%, Andy- 47%

That's a huge difference. Also Andy only played 25 games and scored 4 more PPG than last season. That's clearly a fluke. He's over 30 so he didn't just suddenly get better. It was just a smaller sample size. Here's the truth, Thad is 6 years younger, a far better scorer, and is on a better contract. I'd rather have that than a more expensive, 31 year old, rebounding, PF.

Then explain to me how the "far better scorer" needed more shot attempts to score the same amount of points.

Andy DID get better in his late 20's.

He took 1 more shot attempt and made it more often as Thad is a much more efficient scorer... Also Andy was consistently an under 11 point scorer per year for his first 9 seasons so I doubt that he just suddenly got better this year. Only playing 25 games usually helps pad your stats if you were on a good run.

What part of "he became an exponentially better player later on in his career" do you not understand?