Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass)

Moderators: Texas Chuck, BullyKing, Andre Roberstan, loserX, Trader_Joe, Mamba4Goat, pacers33granger, MoneyTalks41890, HartfordWhalers

Grade the Orlando offseason

A
9
8%
A-
8
7%
B+
25
21%
B
19
16%
B-
10
8%
C+
8
7%
C
7
6%
C-
15
13%
D
8
7%
F
9
8%
 
Total votes: 118

jayjaysee
King of the Trade Board
Posts: 20,989
And1: 7,905
Joined: Aug 05, 2012

Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#461 » by jayjaysee » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:03 pm

bondom34 wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:I want to get back to who, after trading Vuc and Augustin for max cap space, Orlando targets next offseason.

Ibaka.


Ibaka is accepting 18 mil from Orlando. We've already gone over that. He's not a max or a FA question

I think the most realistic FA target is throwing an ugly max offer at Jrue actually.

I don't think wise has looked at next summer's actual FA class.

Yeah, the Mavs are FA powerhouses with the new goalposts being just getting meetings. We are all shocked and disappointed we only won one title with the guys we have signed in the last decade.

wise1-2 wrote:As is they have a lot of moveable assets and the ability to open up enough cap space for a max contract. That is flexibility. Seeing as how the Magic aren't a finished product, its good to have all options open.


Every team has the flexibility to trade their current players and sign new ones. :(

When you have ¬10 mil in cap space and need to dump 18-20 to have max space... You aren't really in a good spot for targeting free agents. I'm sorry.

As for your Pistons comments.. I'd consider comparing your two rosters before throwing bricks. The ridiculousness of criticizing them is amazing.

Their oldest starter is 26 and signed to an old cap max, which means he's paid like a decent starter. And they have this kid named Stanley that is a beast, that gets no love for some reason. And this guy Pope that plays like a 10 year vet but is actually improving 23 year old 3andD stud.

And they can easily trade Harris, Boban, and maybe Ish and have max cap space next summer using Pope's cap hold!
RexRyan
Rookie
Posts: 1,086
And1: 408
Joined: Oct 30, 2014

Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#462 » by RexRyan » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:05 pm

wise1-2 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
RexRyan wrote:
"Pistons steal good player from Orlando as GM tells the fans it's for eighteen months down the road."

Those who believe that are indeed lost. Its called stupidity. Look it up.



Let's disagree with each other without the insults please. Friendly warning to both sides here.

Thanks

Chuck


Lol if this was me I would've been banned. Heck I was banned for much less than this. Just ask bondom.

Anyway, rex enjoy the mediocre Tobias and the cap space he's eaten up, and enjoy your team because your'e likely stuck with that roster for a while. I'm not worried about the Pistons, as long as Drummond and Jackson are your best players I dont see them doing much.


Sounds great. Hopefully SVG and Henigan can get together again in the near future for another deal. The Magic are doing everything they can to rebuild the Pistons, and that's always appreciated.
wise1-2
Senior
Posts: 523
And1: 116
Joined: Jul 09, 2016

Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#463 » by wise1-2 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:09 pm

pacers33granger wrote:Their ability to sign a star would seem to hinge largely on the development of guys. If Payton stagnates further in his development, Hezonja still doesn't show much, and Gordon doesn't take a step, then I think Hennigan/Vogel could have an insanely good pitch and guys would opt elsewhere more than likely. Also, it's likely imperative that they get Ibaka committed early.

It's tough enough for any teams (regardless of location) to get a max level guy to sign even with a star level player (believe me, Indy's highest profile free agent acquisition in history is probably David West coming off a major injury or Monta). And for Orlando specifically, I'm not sure dumping Vuc to get space to sign someone whose not a true star who might actually move (like Horford) would be worth it.

Thanks for the logic and objectivity. It seems they've all just ganged up.
wise1-2
Senior
Posts: 523
And1: 116
Joined: Jul 09, 2016

Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#464 » by wise1-2 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:10 pm

Since Payton is apparently a d-leaguer, they should target Lowry.
Andre Roberstan
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 10,527
And1: 6,865
Joined: Jun 23, 2015
Contact:
   

Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#465 » by Andre Roberstan » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:11 pm

wise1-2 wrote:Since Payton is apparently a d-leaguer, they should target Lowry.


Not a long-term starter =/= D-Leaguer
Image
Colbinii
RealGM
Posts: 34,243
And1: 21,858
Joined: Feb 13, 2013

Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#466 » by Colbinii » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:31 pm

wise1-2 wrote:Since Payton is apparently a d-leaguer, they should target Lowry.

You exaggerate like a middle school girl.

I am curious who you guys will be targeting in Free Agency, and what makes Orlando more attractive than those players current rosters.
HartfordWhalers
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - 76ers and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 47,322
And1: 20,917
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
 

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#467 » by HartfordWhalers » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:36 pm

Colbinii wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
2K16? I am still shooting the floating out of bounds running corner 3 in double dribble.

Which was way ahead of its time in identifying the importance of that shot location, if perhaps not exactly the way it would be shot.

I never played double dribble. I enjoyed 2k5 with Ben Wallace on the cover. We would always play 12 min quarters, fantasy draft with the best players of all time. 4 Magic Johnsons on one team was great. Small ball before small ball.


Wasn't particularly good in any way shape or form. But oh that corner 3:
orlando_joe
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,893
And1: 1,910
Joined: Dec 27, 2015
     

Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#468 » by orlando_joe » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:05 am

Colbinii wrote:
wise1-2 wrote:Since Payton is apparently a d-leaguer, they should target Lowry.

You exaggerate like a middle school girl.

I am curious who you guys will be targeting in Free Agency, and what makes Orlando more attractive than those players current rosters.

wow...better I just stay out...
RexRyan
Rookie
Posts: 1,086
And1: 408
Joined: Oct 30, 2014

Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#469 » by RexRyan » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:20 am

orlando_joe wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
wise1-2 wrote:Since Payton is apparently a d-leaguer, they should target Lowry.

You exaggerate like a middle school girl.

I am curious who you guys will be targeting in Free Agency, and what makes Orlando more attractive than those players current rosters.

wow...better I just stay out...


Hop on in big fella - according to Orlando's biggest defender on this board, Henigan traded Harris 18 months in advance so they could be a player in next year's free agent pool. Also, Henigan has declared this year playoffs or bust. He's so confident that he tied up $15 million in Jeff Green, as opposed to a better player to help make the playoffs. Strange combination, but I'll move on. Back to the original question.........


Who's this mystery target that Henigan's going to sign?
orlando_joe
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,893
And1: 1,910
Joined: Dec 27, 2015
     

Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#470 » by orlando_joe » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:27 am

RexRyan wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:
Colbinii wrote:You exaggerate like a middle school girl.

I am curious who you guys will be targeting in Free Agency, and what makes Orlando more attractive than those players current rosters.

wow...better I just stay out...


Hop on in big fella - according to Orlando's biggest defender on this board, Henigan traded Harris 18 months in advance so they could be a player in next year's free agent pool. Also, Henigan has declared this year playoffs or bust. He's so confident that he tied up $15 million in Jeff Green, as opposed to a better player to help make the playoffs. Strange combination, but I'll move on. Back to the original question.........


Who's this mystery target that Henigan's going to sign?


seems right...

not on a 30% free throw shooter...lol...
orlando_joe
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,893
And1: 1,910
Joined: Dec 27, 2015
     

Re: RE: Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#471 » by orlando_joe » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:45 am

wise1-2 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
wise1-2 wrote:You're directly assuming Rob is going to use that 2017 cap space on a one year deal? Maybe they should've signed Loul Deng or Evan Turner, or kept Harris and lost all flexibility. The Magic aren't going in the same route as the blazers, who locked up Harkless, Crabbe and Turner and killed their future cap space because they dont believe they can attract a great player. The Magic believe they can attract some of the best FAs on the market. They almost got Millsap to sign on a 25 win team. Hennigan knows how to make a great pitch. I'll take the cap space and chance to get a max FA over Harris any day. Green is just there as a placeholder and to provide a scoring punch off the bench.

And what star has Orlando even gotten? Last I checked both Dwight and Howard left. Orlando isn't anymore attractive than Portland, and frankly, I would much prefer to live in Portland if I were an NBA player.

You can ask Millsap. The Magic have signed guys like Hill, TMac, Lewis which is a lot more than Portland has done. Anyway these weren't my words. The Blazers GM said he prefers to lock up those players more than having cap space. But just a couple of years ago, Millsap was willing to sign. Vogel chose the Magic over a ton of teams that were chasing him, and frankly I don't really care where you prefer to live LOL.

I know I am old...but Horace grant always left off...came down off 3 rings in Chicago still in prime...so really magic get a guy every 5 yrs or so since they have been in nba
Skin
RealGM
Posts: 18,514
And1: 8,804
Joined: Jul 03, 2009
   

Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#472 » by Skin » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:21 pm

This thread is hilarious.

Let's get on the same page...

On Harris...

1) Tobias Harris is a tweener, but he is still good enough to be a starter on a playoff team or bench guy on a championship team.
2) The Magic lost Harris for nearly nothing and Hennigan lost that trade from a player value standpoint. They could've decided to not give him a contract last summer and the result would've been the same in terms of cap savings. Only save is that Ilyasova was part of the Ibaka trade.
3) The trade was heavily influenced by Scott Skiles and his desire to bring in 2 of his former players and make a playoff push.
4) Hennigan was the most influential figure that got Skiles fired and Vogel hired.
5) Without that trade, Skiles is still the coach of the Magic. Net effect, Magic trade Harris for Vogel, cap space and a trade chip in the Ibaka trade.
7) Nobody can wisely direct the cap savings from the Harris trade to any player or players on the current Magic roster.
8) Sitting here today, both the Magic and the Pistons are happy with the trade. Trying to rub salt over the trade on either side is futile. Pistons are happy they got Tobias for cheap. Magic are happy to hand the reigns to Aaron Gordon and Mario Hezonja under a better coach in Vogel.

On cap space...

1) The Magic's top FA priority is Serge Ibaka. Their chance of keeping him is significantly higher than it was prior to the trade.
2) The city of Orlando is not a main selling point to FAs. No city is.
3) Every player has a different set of priorities in FA.
3) The Magic have cap flexibility because of the contracts that belong to Jeff Green, Jodie Meeks and CJ Watson. The Magic can release Watson after this season and only owe him $1M, instead of keeping him for $5M. These contracts add up to $25M. Add the cap increase next season and the Magic have enough to be aggressive once again.
4) They don't have to face the issue of using their cap space on extending Victor Oladipo and over-allocating cap space at SG where Fournier was just given $17M per.
5) Talking about releasing Augustin and Wilcox is silly talk.
6) If the Magic don't resign Ibaka that will be a HUGE loss and Hennigan's job could be tied to that decision.
7) If the Magic aren't winning like they want at the deadline, Hennigan could try to recoup some loss and trade Ibaka to a contender.

On the build of the Magic...

1) Everything is still pinned on the hopes of discovering a star. The Magic feel like Aaron Gordon gives them the best shot at that. Every move made is supporting that cause.
2) Vogel wanted to prioritize defense and playing at a faster pace.
3) The world doesn't know how it will work out.
Trader_Joe
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 29,176
And1: 3,953
Joined: Jan 19, 2009
 

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#473 » by Trader_Joe » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:28 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
2K16? I am still shooting the floating out of bounds running corner 3 in double dribble.

Which was way ahead of its time in identifying the importance of that shot location, if perhaps not exactly the way it would be shot.

I never played double dribble. I enjoyed 2k5 with Ben Wallace on the cover. We would always play 12 min quarters, fantasy draft with the best players of all time. 4 Magic Johnsons on one team was great. Small ball before small ball.


Wasn't particularly good in any way shape or form. But oh that corner 3:

No love for 1 on 1, Dr.J vs. Larry Bird or am I aging myself here?
Mikhail Prokhorov wrote:My posse usually needs another vacation after a vacation with me.
OrlChamps2030
General Manager
Posts: 8,035
And1: 4,336
Joined: Jul 18, 2009
     

Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#474 » by OrlChamps2030 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:04 pm

Pretty polarizing thread. Kinda brutal to read through.

Signing Vogel, bringing back Fournier, and resigning Biyombo are all good to great moves.

Trading for Ibaka... Really have to wait and see. I can't sit here and act like I wasn't a big Oladipo fan. We gave up a lot. At the same time though, I always questioned the fit of Payton&Oladipo. We have needed a guy like Ibaka for awhile and a backcourt of Payton/Fournier could work pretty well going forward. A lot of "if's" need to happen for this trade to work out strongly in the Magic's favor... If Ibaka can return to form.. If he resigns.. If he is worth a max deal... If he can coexist with Biyombo offensively.. But he has shown to be a special player and hopefully Vogel can help him get back to that level.

DJ Augustine... Don't love him on a 4 year deal but he can play and he's a major upgrade over Shabazz Napier.

Jeff Green... Inconsequential. Zero risk.

This offseason nets out to a B for me. A lot hinges on the Ibaka/Oladipo trade.

Grading this offseason a D or C is pretty brutal IMO.
RexRyan
Rookie
Posts: 1,086
And1: 408
Joined: Oct 30, 2014

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#475 » by RexRyan » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:17 am

Trader_Joe wrote:No love for 1 on 1, Dr.J vs. Larry Bird or am I aging myself here?



LOVED Dr. J vs. Larry Bird - used to play it on Apple 2+ and Franklin (Apple knockoff)
wise1-2
Senior
Posts: 523
And1: 116
Joined: Jul 09, 2016

Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#476 » by wise1-2 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:13 am

orlando_joe wrote:
RexRyan wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:wow...better I just stay out...


Hop on in big fella - according to Orlando's biggest defender on this board, Henigan traded Harris 18 months in advance so they could be a player in next year's free agent pool. Also, Henigan has declared this year playoffs or bust. He's so confident that he tied up $15 million in Jeff Green, as opposed to a better player to help make the playoffs. Strange combination, but I'll move on. Back to the original question.........


Who's this mystery target that Henigan's going to sign?


seems right...

not on a 30% free throw shooter...lol...

Lol.
Trader_Joe
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 29,176
And1: 3,953
Joined: Jan 19, 2009
 

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#477 » by Trader_Joe » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:30 am

RexRyan wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:No love for 1 on 1, Dr.J vs. Larry Bird or am I aging myself here?



LOVED Dr. J vs. Larry Bird - used to play it on Apple 2+ and Franklin (Apple knockoff)

Yup!
Had the Franklin 1200 (or something)
Mikhail Prokhorov wrote:My posse usually needs another vacation after a vacation with me.
Bensational
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,299
And1: 13,741
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
     

Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#478 » by Bensational » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:42 pm

Colbinii wrote:I am curious who you guys will be targeting in Free Agency, and what makes Orlando more attractive than those players current rosters.


I don't think we're at a star FA chasing level yet, and I think that will hinge on the emergence of some of our young guys to become draw cards in that respect. Most likely, we're looking to improve on our record, get into the playoffs, and entice the 2nd and 3rd tier FAs to continue solidifying the roster, not too dissimilar to what Indiana has done in recent years (even though they had Paul George as a potential drawcard).

The things we have going for us are roster and cap flexibility. Things will be decided this year that will start to cement the long term building blocks. Is Gordon better at SF or PF? If he's better at PF, it makes Ibaka expendable, and we get cap space to pursue a SF:

2017 SFs
- Hayward
- Gallinari
- Igoudala
- Tyreke

Or, if Hezonja emerges as a starting caliber player by the end of the season, that likely means Gordon shifts to PF to make room for Hezonja in the starting lineup, making Ibaka expendable. The cap space then goes on bolstering the bench with long term affordable options whilst keeping space for extending Gordon and/or Hezonja. If both guys flame out, then this attempt at a rebuild flames out.

Continuing under the premise of Ibaka being the odd man out, if Payton fails to improve, but the other players seem good enough in their positions, we can look to add a starting PG from the FA class:

2017 PGs
- Paul (unlikely as he's too big a name and he'll be ring chasing)
- Lowry
- Teague

If Ibaka doesn't fit, or he indicates he wants to go elsewhere, but we still want Gordon at SF, we could look at other PF options:

2017 PFs
- Millsap (already chased him once, he's a great team guy)
- Noel (not best fit next to Biyombo)
- Mirotic
- Amir Johnson (not best fit next to Biyombo)

If Biyombo/Ibaka/Gordon appear to be our front court of the future, but our back court have issues, then we need to explore cap clearing moves. If it's Fournier, we look to move him for cap space (although i'm fairly confident Fournier will be successful for years to come). If it's Payton, we might have to look into a Vuc + Payton package to clear room to chase a starting PG, or just trade for a starting PG.

There are a lot of X Factors on this team this year, but it's all mostly around the offensive potential of players. Defensively, with Vogel's history and the combo of Biyombo/Ibaka/Gordon I think we've got a Top 5 defensive team. Offensively, we're waiting to see what players like Payton, Gordon and Hezonja can do with a bit more freedom to work. Some Magic fans have faith in their potential, others don't. We'll just have to wait for the games to see what happens.
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 37,033
And1: 14,877
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#479 » by basketballRob » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:03 pm

Smitty731 wrote:Howard = HOMER. :)


It's the first season I've seen him have the Magic in the playoffs the last few years.
Smitty731
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 21,397
And1: 25,002
Joined: Feb 09, 2014
       

Re: Orlando early offseason in review (HW/bondom34/dbrandon/Smitty731/HowardMass) 

Post#480 » by Smitty731 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:05 pm

basketballRob wrote:
Smitty731 wrote:Howard = HOMER. :)


It's the first season I've seen him have the Magic in the playoff the last few years.


It was very obviously a joke.

Return to Trades and Transactions