Trade Deadline winners & losers

[Trader_Joe]

Good catch. Was basing my assessment off this thread http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1373740#start_here, but looking back on it now it seems like there's no actual support for the OPs story (at least provided). Checked it out and you're right it seems like the ball was in OKC's court and Presti just decided to go another route.

Not sure whether not grabbing RJ is actually a blessing, although I think your argument is fair. I probably like Jackson more than most though.

No worries, I was just wondering if I missed something.
We shall see about RJ but for now, we have more pressing needs IMO.

I'd agree you didn't need rj, my reasoning they were a loser was they really should have done something, anything to get a little youngere and cheaper. Thad's nice, but doesn't really fit that. They're in the same position as when they entered the day essentially, where I think the winners of the day are teams who achieved some meaningful goal. I think OKC, MKE, PHI, MIA, PDX, and HOU at least did that.

They did get younger while saving about $10m in salary and tax. They may have gotten better as well as they feel pressure to make the playoffs. I don't think there were any salary dumps offered at the deadline and they couldn't make moves or make moves that made sense. They may have had some planned or maybe they didn't. I don't claim to know but I'm guessing if they could have cleaned house they would have. Until Deron is either off the team or an expirers they can't realm do much until 2016, their plan all along. I have a feeling they will under the tax by next trade deadline, with Thad meaning younger and cheaper.

And I know your not pro RJ..but again RJ would be 50% more money locked for 5 years majority jeopardizing 2016 plans as Deron isn't movable and would thus have more than half their cap on two PGs who form a mediocre tandem. Another reason I hated the deal.

[RandyBreuer]

As a Buck fan now living in Phx I am thrilled and feel a little bad for my newly adopted 2nd team. I think Phx screwed the pooch by overpaying Bledsoe and drafting Ennis.
Proposed many Knight trades on the TAT board to Phx in the last year cause it made all the sense in the world once Bledsoe got the huge deal. Some Suns fans said they would not give Plumlee straight up for Sanders, guess they were right. Now the Bucks steal him anyway imo.
Bucks avoid overpaying Knight who is a better combo 6th or 7th man, not a PG on a contender, and get MCW who is a true PG and has better upside. Ennis is straight gravy.
Really like the position they are in now to max out Giannis and Parker, and can afford to resign Middleton at 2, Henson and Plumlee at 5. Bayless can resign another reasonable deal if he wants to stay and give 3/4 of Knight's production.

[bondom34]

No worries, I was just wondering if I missed something.
We shall see about RJ but for now, we have more pressing needs IMO.

I'd agree you didn't need rj, my reasoning they were a loser was they really should have done something, anything to get a little youngere and cheaper. Thad's nice, but doesn't really fit that. They're in the same position as when they entered the day essentially, where I think the winners of the day are teams who achieved some meaningful goal. I think OKC, MKE, PHI, MIA, PDX, and HOU at least did that.

They did get younger while saving about $10m in salary and tax. They may have gotten better as well as they feel pressure to make the playoffs. I don't think there were any salary dumps offered at the deadline and they couldn't make moves or make moves that made sense. They may have had some planned or maybe they didn't. I don't claim to know but I'm guessing if they could have cleaned house they would have. Until Deron is either off the team or an expirers they can't realm do much until 2016, their plan all along. I have a feeling they will under the tax by next trade deadline, with Thad meaning younger and cheaper.

What was of the rumor of JJ for Jennings?

[Trader_Joe]

I'd agree you didn't need rj, my reasoning they were a loser was they really should have done something, anything to get a little youngere and cheaper. Thad's nice, but doesn't really fit that. They're in the same position as when they entered the day essentially, where I think the winners of the day are teams who achieved some meaningful goal. I think OKC, MKE, PHI, MIA, PDX, and HOU at least did that.

They did get younger while saving about $10m in salary and tax. They may have gotten better as well as they feel pressure to make the playoffs. I don't think there were any salary dumps offered at the deadline and they couldn't make moves or make moves that made sense. They may have had some planned or maybe they didn't. I don't claim to know but I'm guessing if they could have cleaned house they would have. Until Deron is either off the team or an expirers they can't realm do much until 2016, their plan all along. I have a feeling they will under the tax by next trade deadline, with Thad meaning younger and cheaper.

What was of the rumor of JJ for Jennings?

I meant the deadline's deadline.
Thursday afternoon.
Seems both BK and DET were focused on Jackson.
There were Jack to Detroit rumours surfacing that pm though.

[shrink]

There were actual LINES to get Timberwolves tickets today!

I know many of us like to count trade winners as teams that will win more games (and it is related), but at an even more basic level than that, basketball is an entertainment business. The Timberwolves will improve their situation, and KG may ironically add to the price of the franchise before KG buys a piece of it.

Timberwolves may lose more games with KG vs Thad, but they impacted their team tremendously, and perhaps for years to come. I call them winners.

[BleedGreen1989]

There were actual LINES to get Timberwolves tickets today!

I know many of us like to count trade winners as teams that will win more games (and it is related), but at an even more basic level than that, basketball is an entertainment business. The Timberwolves will improve their situation, and KG may ironically add to the price of the franchise before KG buys a piece of it.

Timberwolves may lose more games with KG vs Thad, but they impacted their team tremendously, and perhaps for years to come. I call them winners.

Yeah, i mean Thad Young is the definition of "meh" so i wouldn't be too upset over that, but having Kevin Garnett practice with likes of Andrew Wiggins, Ricky Rubio, Zach Lavine, Gorgi DIeng, etc will pay significant dividends.

[Devilanche]

Does everyone think the OKC deal was good because:
a) better than the supposed one with Nets
b) move out Reggie who the locker seems to dislike now (Westbrook comment was quite bad for someone who doesn't want to talk to the media when he want to)
c) really good on its own?
d) we avoided a followup move for Norris cole?

It's good because in one day you went from being short on shooters to heavy on shooters. Durant and Westbrook will have much more space on offense after this... And other teams are scared of that.

didnt thought of it from that angle.
DJ is an upgrade over Reggie in terms of 3pt shooting for sure but then Singler minutes should be way down when durant is back while Novak should rarely play. I doubt Brooks would be able to situationally put him in when the opportunity arise.

[bs_and_cs]

So far oh so very good for the Celtics.

Isaiah Thomas: 4g, 27.5 MPG, 22.3 PPG, 6 APG, 3.2 RPG, 1 SPG
Jonas Jerebko: 3g, 16.7 MPG, 12.0 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 1.7 APG

Not exactly a deadline guy, but a good addition that is working out well via trade in season.
Jae Crowder: 31g, 21.6 MPG, 8.1 PPG, 3.7 RPG, 1.4 APG, 1 SPG to go along with great defense.

[HartfordWhalers]

So far oh so very good for the Celtics.

Isaiah Thomas: 4g, 27.5 MPG, 22.3 PPG, 6 APG, 3.2 RPG, 1 SPG
Jonas Jerebko: 3g, 16.7 MPG, 12.0 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 1.7 APG

Not exactly a deadline guy, but a good addition that is working out well via trade in season.
Jae Crowder: 31g, 21.6 MPG, 8.1 PPG, 3.7 RPG, 1.4 APG, 1 SPG to go along with great defense.

I almost bumped this thread when the headline was Thomas beats Suns to say how much that headline was what I didn't want to see for Boston.

[Texas Chuck]

So far oh so very good for the Celtics.

Isaiah Thomas: 4g, 27.5 MPG, 22.3 PPG, 6 APG, 3.2 RPG, 1 SPG
Jonas Jerebko: 3g, 16.7 MPG, 12.0 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 1.7 APG

Not exactly a deadline guy, but a good addition that is working out well via trade in season.
Jae Crowder: 31g, 21.6 MPG, 8.1 PPG, 3.7 RPG, 1.4 APG, 1 SPG to go along with great defense.

Yes another one where I was surprised how many people hated this for Boston. Thomas is a very good offensive player on a bargain contract. Yes most people hated this deal and loved Jackson to Detroit. I know I can't be the only person who realizes how much better of a player Thomas is, can I?

[cl2117]

So far oh so very good for the Celtics.

Isaiah Thomas: 4g, 27.5 MPG, 22.3 PPG, 6 APG, 3.2 RPG, 1 SPG
Jonas Jerebko: 3g, 16.7 MPG, 12.0 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 1.7 APG

Not exactly a deadline guy, but a good addition that is working out well via trade in season.
Jae Crowder: 31g, 21.6 MPG, 8.1 PPG, 3.7 RPG, 1.4 APG, 1 SPG to go along with great defense.

I almost bumped this thread when the headline was Thomas beats Suns to say how much that headline was what I didn't want to see for Boston.

Was in a similar boat originally in that I was worried that this would buoy them to a couple extra wins and move them away from having a solid lottery selection, despite the value they got. Then when Sullinger went out I assumed that they were dead in the water and liked the trade because it was great value and they'd still get a good lottery pick.

Now I've done a 180 and I'm just excited to watch this team compete for a playoff birth. They're a lot of fun to watch. And with this draft being a bit top heavy and a top 6/7 pick most likely already out of reach anyway, I care a lot less whether they end up at 9 or 14.

Even after dumping their best players this team kept squeaking out wins based off hustle alone (shot worse %, had more turnovers and less rebounds than the other team and still came away with the win). At a certain point you just have to embrace it and enjoy the fact you at least have something to root for.

[bondom34]

So far oh so very good for the Celtics.

Isaiah Thomas: 4g, 27.5 MPG, 22.3 PPG, 6 APG, 3.2 RPG, 1 SPG
Jonas Jerebko: 3g, 16.7 MPG, 12.0 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 1.7 APG

Not exactly a deadline guy, but a good addition that is working out well via trade in season.
Jae Crowder: 31g, 21.6 MPG, 8.1 PPG, 3.7 RPG, 1.4 APG, 1 SPG to go along with great defense.

I almost bumped this thread when the headline was Thomas beats Suns to say how much that headline was what I didn't want to see for Boston.

Was in a similar boat originally in that I was worried that this would buoy them to a couple extra wins and move them away from having a solid lottery selection, despite the value they got. Then when Sullinger went out I assumed that they were dead in the water and liked the trade because it was great value and they'd still get a good lottery pick.

Now I've done a 180 and I'm just excited to watch this team compete for a playoff birth. They're a lot of fun to watch. And with this draft being a bit top heavy and a top 6/7 pick most likely already out of reach anyway, I care a lot less whether they end up at 9 or 14.

Even after dumping their best players this team kept squeaking out wins based off hustle alone (shot worse %, had more turnovers and less rebounds than the other team and still came away with the win). At a certain point you just have to embrace it and enjoy the fact you at least have something to root for.

See, I really like this. I think the postseason experience is and will be invaluable to the younger guys. I'm by no means against tanking, but Boston just isn't that bad. Ainge literally can't use all the picks he has stashed, so why not get a good player on a value deal? Smart, Olynk, Sulllinger, Bradley all get playoff experience under their belt and learn together.

[HartfordWhalers]

I almost bumped this thread when the headline was Thomas beats Suns to say how much that headline was what I didn't want to see for Boston.

Was in a similar boat originally in that I was worried that this would buoy them to a couple extra wins and move them away from having a solid lottery selection, despite the value they got. Then when Sullinger went out I assumed that they were dead in the water and liked the trade because it was great value and they'd still get a good lottery pick.

Now I've done a 180 and I'm just excited to watch this team compete for a playoff birth. They're a lot of fun to watch. And with this draft being a bit top heavy and a top 6/7 pick most likely already out of reach anyway, I care a lot less whether they end up at 9 or 14.

Even after dumping their best players this team kept squeaking out wins based off hustle alone (shot worse %, had more turnovers and less rebounds than the other team and still came away with the win). At a certain point you just have to embrace it and enjoy the fact you at least have something to root for.

See, I really like this. I think the postseason experience is and will be invaluable to the younger guys. I'm by no means against tanking, but Boston just isn't that bad. Ainge literally can't use all the picks he has stashed, so why not get a good player on a value deal? Smart, Olynk, Sulllinger, Bradley all get playoff experience under their belt and learn together.

The gap between picking pre lottery 7th and pre lottery 15th is huge. Getting blown out in the playoffs doesn't match that. Sixers got to go to the playoffs and get their youth blown out all the time, and that youth never got better because of it (imo).

[bondom34]

Was in a similar boat originally in that I was worried that this would buoy them to a couple extra wins and move them away from having a solid lottery selection, despite the value they got. Then when Sullinger went out I assumed that they were dead in the water and liked the trade because it was great value and they'd still get a good lottery pick.

Now I've done a 180 and I'm just excited to watch this team compete for a playoff birth. They're a lot of fun to watch. And with this draft being a bit top heavy and a top 6/7 pick most likely already out of reach anyway, I care a lot less whether they end up at 9 or 14.

Even after dumping their best players this team kept squeaking out wins based off hustle alone (shot worse %, had more turnovers and less rebounds than the other team and still came away with the win). At a certain point you just have to embrace it and enjoy the fact you at least have something to root for.

See, I really like this. I think the postseason experience is and will be invaluable to the younger guys. I'm by no means against tanking, but Boston just isn't that bad. Ainge literally can't use all the picks he has stashed, so why not get a good player on a value deal? Smart, Olynk, Sulllinger, Bradley all get playoff experience under their belt and learn together.

The gap between picking pre lottery 7th and pre lottery 15th is huge. Getting blown out in the playoffs doesn't match that. Sixers got to go to the playoffs and get their youth blown out all the time, and that youth never got better because of it (imo).

I think it matters somewhat the roster composition though too. Some of those Sixers teams weren't quite as young overall as Boston if I'm remembering correctly. Boston's main players are all young, the only "vet" who's really a big player for them is Green. They have the 2 bigs, Bradley, Smart, Thomas, Zeller, and Crowder all playing 20 plus MPG. I think with that much youth it helps. To me the ultimate question for Ainge is what he's gonna do with a million picks, you can't have a team just made up of rooks and 2nd year guys, he's gotta get some players to trade for from them. IT was a good get.

[HartfordWhalers]

See, I really like this. I think the postseason experience is and will be invaluable to the younger guys. I'm by no means against tanking, but Boston just isn't that bad. Ainge literally can't use all the picks he has stashed, so why not get a good player on a value deal? Smart, Olynk, Sulllinger, Bradley all get playoff experience under their belt and learn together.

The gap between picking pre lottery 7th and pre lottery 15th is huge. Getting blown out in the playoffs doesn't match that. Sixers got to go to the playoffs and get their youth blown out all the time, and that youth never got better because of it (imo).

I think it matters somewhat the roster composition though too. Some of those Sixers teams weren't quite as young overall as Boston if I'm remembering correctly. Boston's main players are all young, the only "vet" who's really a big player for them is Green. They have the 2 bigs, Bradley, Smart, Thomas, Zeller, and Crowder all playing 20 plus MPG. I think with that much youth it helps. To me the ultimate question for Ainge is what he's gonna do with a million picks, you can't have a team just made up of rooks and 2nd year guys, he's gotta get some players to trade for from them. IT was a good get.

Jrue/Turner/Thad/Brand/Hawes. Basically 4 guys under 25, and a most much closer to 22. They were young, besides Brand.

I think you need a big time player to win, and win big. Boston still needs that. A higher pick/odds of winning the lottery, does a lot more towards that than an extra 4 games of Olynyk seasoning in the playoffs.

[bondom34]

The gap between picking pre lottery 7th and pre lottery 15th is huge. Getting blown out in the playoffs doesn't match that. Sixers got to go to the playoffs and get their youth blown out all the time, and that youth never got better because of it (imo).

I think it matters somewhat the roster composition though too. Some of those Sixers teams weren't quite as young overall as Boston if I'm remembering correctly. Boston's main players are all young, the only "vet" who's really a big player for them is Green. They have the 2 bigs, Bradley, Smart, Thomas, Zeller, and Crowder all playing 20 plus MPG. I think with that much youth it helps. To me the ultimate question for Ainge is what he's gonna do with a million picks, you can't have a team just made up of rooks and 2nd year guys, he's gotta get some players to trade for from them. IT was a good get.

Jrue/Turner/Thad/Brand/Hawes. Basically 4 guys under 25, and a most much closer to 22. They were young, besides Brand.

I think you need a big time player to win, and win big. Boston still needs that. A higher pick/odds of winning the lottery, does a lot more towards that than an extra 4 games of Olynyk seasoning in the playoffs.

I'm gonna be a slight smartass (not toward you though), but just a random thought that literally came to me now......

I think (and it seems we agree) at some point the experience helps. Seems at this point the top guys in the draft are Mudiay (PG) and a few bigs. Maybe Boston would rather keep Smart and the bigs they have and wait til 2016? I agree to be real contenders they need a star, and it looks like the Nets may gift them one via the 2016 draft still.

[Texas Chuck]

The gap between picking pre lottery 7th and pre lottery 15th is huge. Getting blown out in the playoffs doesn't match that. Sixers got to go to the playoffs and get their youth blown out all the time, and that youth never got better because of it (imo).

To counter balance this, the Mavs had a ton of youth including 3 or 4 1st round picks from that year alone in 01. Moved some of them out to acquire the original "bad contract" in Juwan, got great playoff experience for Dirk, Fin, and Nash (I mean the Stockton/Malone/Sloan Jazz) and proceeded to be one of the best teams in the West for a decade.

Im pretty low on the draft in general excepting the top few selections. I would always value the experience and revenue over a few spots in the draft.

[HartfordWhalers]

I think it matters somewhat the roster composition though too. Some of those Sixers teams weren't quite as young overall as Boston if I'm remembering correctly. Boston's main players are all young, the only "vet" who's really a big player for them is Green. They have the 2 bigs, Bradley, Smart, Thomas, Zeller, and Crowder all playing 20 plus MPG. I think with that much youth it helps. To me the ultimate question for Ainge is what he's gonna do with a million picks, you can't have a team just made up of rooks and 2nd year guys, he's gotta get some players to trade for from them. IT was a good get.

Jrue/Turner/Thad/Brand/Hawes. Basically 4 guys under 25, and a most much closer to 22. They were young, besides Brand.

I think you need a big time player to win, and win big. Boston still needs that. A higher pick/odds of winning the lottery, does a lot more towards that than an extra 4 games of Olynyk seasoning in the playoffs.

I'm gonna be a slight smartass (not toward you though), but just a random thought that literally came to me now......

I think (and it seems we agree) at some point the experience helps. Seems at this point the top guys in the draft are Mudiay (PG) and a few bigs. Maybe Boston would rather keep Smart and the bigs they have and wait til 2016? I agree to be real contenders they need a star, and it looks like the Nets may gift them one via the 2016 draft still.

Yeah, I guess the point is you want to get your good experience after you get your Ad. They don't yet have their John Wall. And if the team slips in the playoffs and drafts 15th, I will be elated if it gives a Miami pick at 11-12 to Philly, but mostly I think even if its not getting that start, Boston will have moved out of range of the WCS center prospects taht would be great, and also possibly all the elite sf prospects that would fit great.

My bias is add talent through the draft, so every time they win I just see it as worse news, not good news. And worse news they gave up value to get.

[bondom34]

Jrue/Turner/Thad/Brand/Hawes. Basically 4 guys under 25, and a most much closer to 22. They were young, besides Brand.

I think you need a big time player to win, and win big. Boston still needs that. A higher pick/odds of winning the lottery, does a lot more towards that than an extra 4 games of Olynyk seasoning in the playoffs.

I'm gonna be a slight smartass (not toward you though), but just a random thought that literally came to me now......

I think (and it seems we agree) at some point the experience helps. Seems at this point the top guys in the draft are Mudiay (PG) and a few bigs. Maybe Boston would rather keep Smart and the bigs they have and wait til 2016? I agree to be real contenders they need a star, and it looks like the Nets may gift them one via the 2016 draft still.

Yeah, I guess the point is you want to get your good experience after you get your Ad. They don't yet have their John Wall. And if the team slips in the playoffs and drafts 15th, I will be elated if it gives a Miami pick at 11-12 to Philly, but mostly I think even if its not getting that start, Boston will have moved out of range of the WCS center prospects taht would be great, and also possibly all the elite sf prospects that would fit great.

My bias is add talent through the draft, so every time they win I just see it as worse news, not good news. And worse news they gave up value to get.

Yeah, fair point. I just think they still have the assets at hand to get that guy whenever, and it doesn't hurt. You do make a good point though.

[bs_and_cs]

Jrue/Turner/Thad/Brand/Hawes. Basically 4 guys under 25, and a most much closer to 22. They were young, besides Brand.

I think you need a big time player to win, and win big. Boston still needs that. A higher pick/odds of winning the lottery, does a lot more towards that than an extra 4 games of Olynyk seasoning in the playoffs.

I'm gonna be a slight smartass (not toward you though), but just a random thought that literally came to me now......

I think (and it seems we agree) at some point the experience helps. Seems at this point the top guys in the draft are Mudiay (PG) and a few bigs. Maybe Boston would rather keep Smart and the bigs they have and wait til 2016? I agree to be real contenders they need a star, and it looks like the Nets may gift them one via the 2016 draft still.

Yeah, I guess the point is you want to get your good experience after you get your Ad. They don't yet have their John Wall. And if the team slips in the playoffs and drafts 15th, I will be elated if it gives a Miami pick at 11-12 to Philly, but mostly I think even if its not getting that start, Boston will have moved out of range of the WCS center prospects taht would be great, and also possibly all the elite sf prospects that would fit great.

My bias is add talent through the draft, so every time they win I just see it as worse news, not good news. And worse news they gave up value to get.

Of course that is your bias. Your GM is trading anyone on your team who is even remotely decent in order to get draft picks. Basically hoping and praying they don't select a bunch of busts, which so far isn't working out.

The Celtics GM is building a team with a bunch of young players and a bunch of other picks to go with those young players with the goal of making the playoffs while developing young players.

I was one of the ones who wanted the tank this year for Boston...but not anymore. I love watching this team play and I love seeing these young guys go out and give 110% and now I'm loving seeing them win some games. Look for Danny Ainge to add their superstar a different way.