Do you agree with hinkie's rebuild plan for the sixers?

[j_n]

So, by your methodology no trade can be measured as good or bad until long after everything (including the random stuff) happens after.

That also strikes me as meaningless.

Sixers got the prospect they wanted, and a prospect viewed as at least as good if not better by most experts, along with other assets.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140607112021/http://www.draftexpress.com/rankings/Top-100-Prospects/
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/insider/story/_/id/11069368/nba-draft-2014-ranking-prospects-tiers

Seems a pretty clear win to me.

Im saying that Hinikie's perception of Saric and Payton means nothing about their actual value and neither does Henningan's, clearly both of them felt like they were getting the better end of the deal or there would be no trade.

I dont know if Hinkie really rated Saric higher than Payton but even if he did doesnt mean he was right or that he won something, what if Hennigan rated Payton in the top 5 and was ready to throw in another 3 first rounders if thats what it took? would that make him the winner?

When its all said and done GMs have enough information to make an educated decision, Im sure were going to found out who got the better end of the deal soon enough.

[Crabman]

But the thing is, you are just factually wrong.

Edit: Looks like you found it.

And yes, unless WOJ and everyone else is wrong, the Sixers did prefer Saric. Personally, I'm going to trust them.

So what about the fact that Chicago could've picked Saric? Or that the Magic could've kept him? If the Sixers loved him so much over Payton they wouldn't have taken the gamble. They would've just picked Saric. You don't pass up on your guy, and that's exactly what Hennigan did when he traded for Payton. Its not like I'm making this up, Saric could've been unattainable to the sixers, and Hinkie said in his post draft interview that he liked Payton.

It is hilarious that your are trying to cite Hinkie, when Hinkie confirmed that they took Payton to hold Orlando hostage. This is comical.

There was a risk that Chicago messed up the deal, or that Orlando wasn't all in on Payton as the Sixers intel said they were. Still Hinkie took the gamble, and was rewarded.

What's hilarious is you pick and choose what you want to hear from hinkie. I understand sixes fans want to think Hinkie is a genius because he hasn't built anything substantial yet and they're basically going on hope. That's fine, you believe what you want to believe. If you want to believe the sixers wanted nothing to do with Payton and only wanted Saric, go ahead. As long as you're happy, I'm happy lol.

[Knosh]

I'm sure this has been discussed on this board before, but the below article got me thinking about it again:

http://www.si.com/thecauldron/2015/10/16/philadelphia-76ers-sam-hinkie-joel-embiid-brett-brown-process

I tend to agree that the article borders on "negative diatribe", but posting it anyway as a jumping off point for discussion.

What are your thoughts on hinkie's rebuild plan? I'll come back later with more to say, but I tend to call it an "extreme tanking rebuild", which I don't entirely agree with. My main feeling is that he's made moves that have hindered actual team building and development, and now we're going into year 3 without much of a team in place.

Basically, I have no problem with building through the draft and acquiring assets, but it's the "extreme" or "rigid" nature of which hinkie's doing it that I question. Thoughts? Please vote in the poll as well.

Not sure I understand your question. Hinkie has been pretty clear that the goal is to contend for championships. And it's not Hinkie's job to set that goal, that's just what ownership told him to do.
So are you asking if we like Hinkie's plan to achieve that? Or are you asking how we feel about ownership's preferences?

[HartfordWhalers]

So what about the fact that Chicago could've picked Saric? Or that the Magic could've kept him? If the Sixers loved him so much over Payton they wouldn't have taken the gamble. They would've just picked Saric. You don't pass up on your guy, and that's exactly what Hennigan did when he traded for Payton. Its not like I'm making this up, Saric could've been unattainable to the sixers, and Hinkie said in his post draft interview that he liked Payton.

It is hilarious that your are trying to cite Hinkie, when Hinkie confirmed that they took Payton to hold Orlando hostage. This is comical.

There was a risk that Chicago messed up the deal, or that Orlando wasn't all in on Payton as the Sixers intel said they were. Still Hinkie took the gamble, and was rewarded.

What's hilarious is you pick and choose what you want to hear from hinkie. I understand sixes fans want to think Hinkie is a genius because he hasn't built anything substantial yet and they're basically going on hope. That's fine, you believe what you want to believe. If you want to believe the sixers wanted nothing to do with Payton and only wanted Saric, go ahead. As long as you're happy, I'm happy lol.

Oh wow. Thats about the 4th time you have spoken completely out of your ass on this. You are doing a great job of making the point that some Orlando fans are really offended by that trade to the point of posting whatever they think will help make their case, truth be damned.

Show me what I pick and choose to believe? There are reports from Zach Lowe, from Woj, from Hinkie etc, all on what happened on that trade. But clearly you aren't going to process that.

[Crabman]

It is hilarious that your are trying to cite Hinkie, when Hinkie confirmed that they took Payton to hold Orlando hostage. This is comical.

There was a risk that Chicago messed up the deal, or that Orlando wasn't all in on Payton as the Sixers intel said they were. Still Hinkie took the gamble, and was rewarded.

What's hilarious is you pick and choose what you want to hear from hinkie. I understand sixes fans want to think Hinkie is a genius because he hasn't built anything substantial yet and they're basically going on hope. That's fine, you believe what you want to believe. If you want to believe the sixers wanted nothing to do with Payton and only wanted Saric, go ahead. As long as you're happy, I'm happy lol.

Oh wow. Thats about the 4th time you have spoken completely out of your ass on this. You are doing a great job of making the point that some Orlando fans are really offended by that trade to the point of posting whatever they think will help make their case, truth be damned.

Show me what I pick and choose to believe? There are reports from Zach Lowe, from Woj, from Hinkie etc, all on what happened on that trade. But clearly you aren't going to process that.

Lol did I hit a nerve? It seems you have trouble processing that all I'm claiming is there is no proof sixers wanted nothing to do with Payton and only want saric. You chose to ignore the fact that Hinkie praised Payton, AND had no trust in MCW. I could care less about what the Magic gave up. Payton is my favorite player on the team. I love that in your little mind I'm mad about what we gave up, all part of being a happy sixers fans I guess.

[HartfordWhalers]

What's hilarious is you pick and choose what you want to hear from hinkie. I understand sixes fans want to think Hinkie is a genius because he hasn't built anything substantial yet and they're basically going on hope. That's fine, you believe what you want to believe. If you want to believe the sixers wanted nothing to do with Payton and only wanted Saric, go ahead. As long as you're happy, I'm happy lol.

Oh wow. Thats about the 4th time you have spoken completely out of your ass on this. You are doing a great job of making the point that some Orlando fans are really offended by that trade to the point of posting whatever they think will help make their case, truth be damned.

Show me what I pick and choose to believe? There are reports from Zach Lowe, from Woj, from Hinkie etc, all on what happened on that trade. But clearly you aren't going to process that.

Lol did I hit a nerve? It seems you have trouble processing that all I'm claiming is there is no proof sixers wanted nothing to do with Payton and only want saric. You chose to ignore the fact that Hinkie praised Payton, AND had no trust in MCW. I could care less about what the Magic gave up. Payton is my favorite player on the team. I love that in your little mind I'm mad about what we gave up, all part of being a happy sixers fans I guess.

I'm processing you are saying that. I'm telling you that to say there is no proof, you are ignoring all of the most respected journalists in basketball. You can do that, but it isn't a position I would feel very comfortable doing.

[Texas Chuck]

Maybe we could move on from this Payton trade sidetrack? I think its obvious fans from both sides are happy--the Magic got a guy they believe can be their PGOTF and the Sixers obviously have to love the value they got. And while some may doubt their preferences between Saric/Payton what's obviously true is that they wouldn't have traded Payton if they loved him. And really no one should believe everything that comes out of GM's mouth prior to the draft. Him praising Payton really couldn't be less relevant.

But seriously let's move on to the plan as a whole and not one transaction. I know you have strong Magic ties and so thats all you care about but its derailing this thread.

[brackdan70]

I voted somewhere in the middle. He has increased value of assets over the 2 and 1/2 years he has been there, but eventually he has to turn those assets and prospects into actual NBA players. If I was a Philly fan i would be OK for now, but if in 2 years if there is not much to show but picks and prospects, I would be getting pretty restless.

[Crabman]

Oh wow. Thats about the 4th time you have spoken completely out of your ass on this. You are doing a great job of making the point that some Orlando fans are really offended by that trade to the point of posting whatever they think will help make their case, truth be damned.

Show me what I pick and choose to believe? There are reports from Zach Lowe, from Woj, from Hinkie etc, all on what happened on that trade. But clearly you aren't going to process that.

Lol did I hit a nerve? It seems you have trouble processing that all I'm claiming is there is no proof sixers wanted nothing to do with Payton and only want saric. You chose to ignore the fact that Hinkie praised Payton, AND had no trust in MCW. I could care less about what the Magic gave up. Payton is my favorite player on the team. I love that in your little mind I'm mad about what we gave up, all part of being a happy sixers fans I guess.

I'm processing you are saying that. I'm telling you that to say there is no proof, you are ignoring all of the most respected journalists in basketball. You can do that, but it isn't a position I would feel very comfortable doing.

Woj reported they didn't want Payton? Again, I'm not claiming the Sixers wanted Payton over Saric. I'm claiming they probably liked both, and saw the gamble (of being able to trade for Saric) worth it. To say they wanted nothing to do with Payton is not accurate at all.

[Clyde Frazier]

I'm sure this has been discussed on this board before, but the below article got me thinking about it again:

http://www.si.com/thecauldron/2015/10/16/philadelphia-76ers-sam-hinkie-joel-embiid-brett-brown-process

I tend to agree that the article borders on "negative diatribe", but posting it anyway as a jumping off point for discussion.

What are your thoughts on hinkie's rebuild plan? I'll come back later with more to say, but I tend to call it an "extreme tanking rebuild", which I don't entirely agree with. My main feeling is that he's made moves that have hindered actual team building and development, and now we're going into year 3 without much of a team in place.

Basically, I have no problem with building through the draft and acquiring assets, but it's the "extreme" or "rigid" nature of which hinkie's doing it that I question. Thoughts? Please vote in the poll as well.

Not sure I understand your question. Hinkie has been pretty clear that the goal is to contend for championships. And it's not Hinkie's job to set that goal, that's just what ownership told him to do.
So are you asking if we like Hinkie's plan to achieve that? Or are you asking how we feel about ownership's preferences?

Every team's goal should be to eventually contend for a championship...

And yes, I'm asking if you agree with hinkie's plan to achieve that.

[Crabman]

Maybe we could move on from this Payton trade sidetrack? I think its obvious fans from both sides are happy--the Magic got a guy they believe can be their PGOTF and the Sixers obviously have to love the value they got. And while some may doubt their preferences between Saric/Payton what's obviously true is that they wouldn't have traded Payton if they loved him. And really no one should believe everything that comes out of GM's mouth prior to the draft. Him praising Payton really couldn't be less relevant.

But seriously let's move on to the plan as a whole and not one transaction. I know you have strong Magic ties and so thats all you care about but its derailing this thread.

See this is where we disagree. Nothing is obvious. They could've really liked both of those players, but preferred Saric and change over just Payton. Anyway, I think I made my point clear so I'll probably stop discussing this.

[HartfordWhalers]

Lol did I hit a nerve? It seems you have trouble processing that all I'm claiming is there is no proof sixers wanted nothing to do with Payton and only want saric. You chose to ignore the fact that Hinkie praised Payton, AND had no trust in MCW. I could care less about what the Magic gave up. Payton is my favorite player on the team. I love that in your little mind I'm mad about what we gave up, all part of being a happy sixers fans I guess.

I'm processing you are saying that. I'm telling you that to say there is no proof, you are ignoring all of the most respected journalists in basketball. You can do that, but it isn't a position I would feel very comfortable doing.

Woj reported they didn't want Payton? Again, I'm not claiming the Sixers wanted Payton over Saric. I'm claiming they probably liked both, and saw the gamble (of being able to trade for Saric) worth it. To say they wanted nothing to do with Payton is not accurate at all.

Oh god. This really is silly. No one said the team "wanted nothing to do with Payton". You are moving the bar and you really should know that.

Woj reported the Sixers wanted Saric (over Payton), and then at the last second took Payton and called Orlando to work a trade for Saric +. As did others. Which is what I said.

[Crabman]

^Seriously? Look at what I said there at the end and what you replied. I stated exactly what I was claiming.

Oh wow. Thats about the 4th time you have spoken completely out of your ass on this. You are doing a great job of making the point that some Orlando fans are really offended by that trade to the point of posting whatever they think will help make their case, truth be damned.

Show me what I pick and choose to believe? There are reports from Zach Lowe, from Woj, from Hinkie etc, all on what happened on that trade. But clearly you aren't going to process that.

Lol did I hit a nerve? It seems you have trouble processing that all I'm claiming is there is no proof sixers wanted nothing to do with Payton and only want saric. You chose to ignore the fact that Hinkie praised Payton, AND had no trust in MCW. I could care less about what the Magic gave up. Payton is my favorite player on the team. I love that in your little mind I'm mad about what we gave up, all part of being a happy sixers fans I guess.

I'm processing you are saying that. I'm telling you that to say there is no proof, you are ignoring all of the most respected journalists in basketball. You can do that, but it isn't a position I would feel very comfortable doing.

[HartfordWhalers]

^Seriously?

I'm not sure is serious is something you can do.

The point I said was that Saric was who Philly wanted over Payton, so they got their guy and then some. A point backed up by all the credibly reporters out there.

That you respond to that with some bs comment about 'picking and choosing what to believe' which was assine and dumb, as is trying to suddenly make it whether the Sixers wanted 0 to do with Payton.

[Texas Chuck]

[Crabman]

^Seriously?

I'm not sure is serious is something you can do.

The point I said was that Saric was who Philly wanted over Payton, so they got their guy and then some. A point backed up by all the credibly reporters out there.

That you respond to that with some bs comment about 'picking and choosing what to believe' which was assine and dumb, as is trying to suddenly make it whether the Sixers wanted 0 to do with Payton.

I made it clear what I was claiming in that post. The post and your reply is there to read. Lol, now you're backtracking? Don't worry, I'll let it go. XOXOXO

[Knosh]

Every team's goal should be to eventually contend for a championship...

And yes, I'm asking if you agree with hinkie's plan to achieve that.

Ok, so why do you think team chemistry and team building matters at this stage for the Sixers? The way I see it, Hinkie is trying to get a MVP caliber player first, because having that superstar is key to contending. Chemistry and actually building a roster that fits is obviously important too, but are secondary to getting that superstar.
Are you disagreeing with that emphasis on the superstar or do you think the lack of actual team building could prevent that superstar from developing in Philly?

[HartfordWhalers]

^Seriously?

I'm not sure is serious is something you can do.

The point I said was that Saric was who Philly wanted over Payton, so they got their guy and then some. A point backed up by all the credibly reporters out there.

That you respond to that with some bs comment about 'picking and choosing what to believe' which was assine and dumb, as is trying to suddenly make it whether the Sixers wanted 0 to do with Payton.

I made it clear what I was claiming in that post. The post and your reply is there to read. Lol, now you're backtracking? Don't worry, I'll let it go. XOXOXO

I'm not backtracking. I said the same thing throughout. Philly got their guy, and then some.

Trying to argue they didn't was stupid. Trying to argue that anyone was saying there was zero value in Payton was stupid. Feel free to argue with yourself over those, but it doesn't change the point:
Philly got their guy, and then some. It was clearly a win.

That this is so hard to understand, or is deflected from so much is absolutely amazing.

[Curmudgeon]

I love what Hinckie is doing because I'm a Celtics fan and we play them 4 times a year.

Tanking works if your target is a transcendent player like Duncan or LeBron and you get lucky in the lottery. It does not work if all you get is a collection of pretty good but not great players.

[Crabman]

I'm not sure is serious is something you can do.

The point I said was that Saric was who Philly wanted over Payton, so they got their guy and then some. A point backed up by all the credibly reporters out there.

That you respond to that with some bs comment about 'picking and choosing what to believe' which was assine and dumb, as is trying to suddenly make it whether the Sixers wanted 0 to do with Payton.

I made it clear what I was claiming in that post. The post and your reply is there to read. Lol, now you're backtracking? Don't worry, I'll let it go. XOXOXO

I'm not backtracking. I said the same thing throughout. Philly got their guy, and then some.

Trying to argue they didn't was stupid. Trying to argue that anyone was saying there was zero value in Payton was stupid. Feel free to argue with yourself over those, but it doesn't change the point:
Philly got their guy, and then some. It was clearly a win.

That this is so hard to understand, or is deflected from so much is absolutely amazing.

Definition of a straw man argument right there. I made it clear it was a good deal for Philly. Again, I made my point clear in my post and the reply is there to read. Lol I'm starting to feel bad for you. You're a moderator and have a reputation to maintain. Not my fault you made a fool of yourself though. Maybe next time you won't to be so quick to insult someone. Hopefully you came out of this with a lesson. LMAO