What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space

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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#61 » by tester551 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:38 am

Goldbum wrote:Crabbe's not giving away [i]8.5 million [/i]by waiving his kicker. If anything he's saving a bit on taxes .....

Just a point of clarification for everyone on Crabbe's kicker.... I've seen this $8.5M number a few times, which I believe is incorrect. His actual trade kicker number should be $5.67M.

Player Option years are not counted ('19-'20 for Crabbe), so it ought to be $18.5M+$19.3M times 15%.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/crabbal01.html

Team 2016-17 2017-18 2018-19 2019-20
Portland Trail Blazers $18,500,000 $18,500,000 $19,332,500 $18,500,000
15% trade kicker.
2019-20 is player option.
Trail Blazers matched 4-yr/$75M offer sheet from Nets on Sunday, July 10, 2016.


http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q59
When determining the amount of a trade bonus (see question number 98), option years are not counted as part of the remaining value of the contract, but years following an ETO are counted.
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#62 » by pacers33granger » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:47 am

BullyKing wrote:I feel like this thread has become a debate over whether it is better to give Reddick a 3 year deal or trade for Crabbe while totally ignoring option 3 of neither.

Here's what I'd do with the space:

Read on Twitter


This is a good take. There's still a bunch of space even with a maxed Embiid so no need to blow it because some will go away. Better to use it to gain more assets while figuring out what exactly the team needs.
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#63 » by Djh7475 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:11 am

Depending on what happens with the PG/Hayward situation, AB could be available. Considering he hasn't gotten a massive contract and the fact that he's massively underpaid, he seems like a prime extension candidate if he played for a team with cap space. If the 76ers can trade for AB, extending him this offseason with a front-heavy extension could make a ton of sense. While a 3 year/$60M contract for AB seems around what he'd get on the open market, averaging it into the last year of his contract and frontloading it would make him an absurd value down the line. A 3/60 extension would look like:

Year 1 (27 years old): $18.6M (up from $8.8M)
Year 2 (28 years old): $17.67M (5% pay decrease)
Year 3 (29 years old): $16.74M (5% pay decrease)
Year 4 (30 years old): $15.81M (5% pay decrease)

This gets the 76ers AB through his prime getting less than Evan Turner/Mozgov/Deng money, and the dude literally improves every year. He's also been a mentor to our youngsters and is incredibly respected around the league on and off the floor, and he's one of the best locker room guys in the league. I think adding a tried and true veteran who can be part of the present and the future makes a ton of sense. While Reddick would help short term, it seems like the 76ers should add players that can start to make them look somewhat attractive to free agents. Short term free agents that are past their prime aren't going to do that.

Plus, AB is an absolutely epic fit for Philly. Considering Simmons and Saric have 3 years before they get paid and Fultz has 4 while Okafor doesn't seem like a priority nor does he seem due for a big payday, Philly should start to build around Fultz, Simmons, Saric, and Embiid. Unless any of those guys makes an All-NBA roster in the next 4 years, they aren't getting more than 25% of the cap, and if all 4 pan out as max-worthy players, the 76ers should flip Saric for a guy that doesn't play the same position as Simmons. From a timeline and cap perspective, it makes sense for the 76ers to sign some guys this offseason before extensions get closer.

Considering AB and Covington are the same age while AB is drastically superior offensively and superior defensively in my opinion (I know the advanced stat argument is coming, but when engaged, players understand he's the best lockdown defender in the NBA), a package based around AB for Covington could finally be conceivable with the PG/Hayward rumors. Covington would certainly be redundant on our roster, but we love positionless defensive-minded players, and he's one of the only guys that could work with our cap situation.

I'm not sure how 76ers fan would feel about it, but a Rozier, Djack, and AB for Covington and Holmes deal makes a ton of sense for both sides. Fultz, Rozier, and AB could be a special backcourt rotation with a ton of upside. AB replaces (and upgrades) Covington and fits like a glove. Rozier gives the 76ers another high upside young combo guard that could actually get minutes in Philly. Djack can be cut, but getting rid of his $650k guarantee is necessary for the C's. With Simmons and Saric both healthy now, Holmes's role is going to be reduced (even moreso if Embiid/Okafor are healthy). With 1 year left on his contract, moving him now for legit value makes sense.

While Celtics fans (myself included) won't love the fit or the value, the trade opens up around $9 million in cap space while adding a competent bench big and yet another positionless-type defender. This gives us a year to bring Jaylen, Tatum, Nader, Ojeleye, and Zizic along without putting too much pressure on them in a competitive environment early on. The resulting C's after Hayward/PG would look like:

IT/Smart
Hayward/Covington/Ojeleye
PG/Jaylen/Nader
Tatum/Holmes
Horford/Zizic

That roster is pretty terrifying. Holmes could possibly even start, or the Celtics could go big (move Horford to the 4, start Zizic) or small (start Smart or Covington at the 2), and we'd always have elite versatile defenders surrounding IT. I don't worry so much about rebounding late in the playoffs (ECFs/Finals), but adding Holmes and Zizic should help our rebounding woes during the regular seasons substantially. Obviously, it puts us in a tough spot next offseason (IT, Smart, Covington, PG, and Holmes would all be due for extensions), but with Smart, Covington, and Holmes all being RFA's, having their bird rights gives us options to match depending on who we draft.

It seems like a win-win for both sides if the money and timing were to work out. I'd follow it up by trying to sign Ingles like someone else suggested (depending on this price). Putting 2 top-flight 3 and D players on reasonable contracts around Fultz, Simmons, Saric, Embiid, and future draft picks will make their life a lot easier and will help the 76ers start to build a winning culture. Maybe the 76ers even leap all the way into the playoffs and turn into a viable free agent destination the next 2 offseasons when guys like PG, Jimmy, IT, Russ, Klay, Deandre, Lillard, Kemba, Lebron, Leonard, and Wall will all be free agents in the next 3 summers.

You could essentially build kind of like the Celtics. Add piece by piece in FA/trade where a bargain can be struck. With a far better roster, maybe you finally move some picks/players for a star and sign one without giving up on the youngsters. The 76ers could finally start to get over the rebuilding hump, but without killing any valhe or long term flexibility (AB will be incredibly movable on that deal).
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#64 » by Foshan » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:23 am

Djh7475 wrote:I'm not sure how 76ers fan would feel about it, but a Rozier, Djack, and AB for Covington and Holmes deal makes a ton of sense for both sides. Fultz, Rozier, and AB could be a special backcourt rotation with a ton of upside. AB replaces (and upgrades) Covington and fits like a glove. Rozier gives the 76ers another high upside young combo guard that could actually get minutes in Philly. Djack can be cut, but getting rid of his $650k guarantee is necessary for the C's. With Simmons and Saric both healthy now, Holmes's role is going to be reduced (even moreso if Embiid/Okafor are healthy). With 1 year left on his contract, moving him now for legit value makes sense.

I appreciate some of your thought process in the previous post, but Philly has no interest in moving RoCo. In fact there was a thread here (or maybe on the 6ers board, sorry i don't remember) where a deal based around just Holmes for AB earned "no ways" from both philly and boston fans. Seeing as Rozier and Djack do little to nothing for us (Fultz starting, vet presence in Bayless, TJ a reliable 3rd PG) it would seem to me your proposal is pretty off.

I also can't see a lot of people overpaying for AB ... doesn't Boston need to move him to get Hayward/George?

That said, i don't dislike AB, and getting him to extend to a big declining deal now (RoCo too) could sure up our starting line going forward with Fultz - AB - RoCo - Simmons - Embiid, but i'm very willing to let tlc grow into that spot, or try to get danny green, sign reddick or any number of other options.
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#65 » by patman52 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:35 am

Yeah, I don't see why Philly would trade Covington. They think of him as Crowder value, and are willing to give him the 18-20 mill that he will get next summer. I can see them parting with Holmes as they won't pay him to be the 5th big (Emblid/Saric/Simmons/Covington) when they have Oak plus the kid they just PU in two years when Holmes is a FA.

Maybe something like Korkmaz and Holmes for Bradley- but not Covington and Holmes. This gives the celts a stash player for two more years and a cheap BU big for two years
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#66 » by LloydFree » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:19 am

Early extension, front loaded contract for Covington. Greek Freak type, early extension for Embiid.
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Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#67 » by Djh7475 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:43 pm

Foshan wrote:
Djh7475 wrote:I'm not sure how 76ers fan would feel about it, but a Rozier, Djack, and AB for Covington and Holmes deal makes a ton of sense for both sides. Fultz, Rozier, and AB could be a special backcourt rotation with a ton of upside. AB replaces (and upgrades) Covington and fits like a glove. Rozier gives the 76ers another high upside young combo guard that could actually get minutes in Philly. Djack can be cut, but getting rid of his $650k guarantee is necessary for the C's. With Simmons and Saric both healthy now, Holmes's role is going to be reduced (even moreso if Embiid/Okafor are healthy). With 1 year left on his contract, moving him now for legit value makes sense.

I appreciate some of your thought process in the previous post, but Philly has no interest in moving RoCo. In fact there was a thread here (or maybe on the 6ers board, sorry i don't remember) where a deal based around just Holmes for AB earned "no ways" from both philly and boston fans. Seeing as Rozier and Djack do little to nothing for us (Fultz starting, vet presence in Bayless, TJ a reliable 3rd PG) it would seem to me your proposal is pretty off.

I also can't see a lot of people overpaying for AB ... doesn't Boston need to move him to get Hayward/George?

That said, i don't dislike AB, and getting him to extend to a big declining deal now (RoCo too) could sure up our starting line going forward with Fultz - AB - RoCo - Simmons - Embiid, but i'm very willing to let tlc grow into that spot, or try to get danny green, sign reddick or any number of other options.


Fair points. I'm a Celtics fan, and it seems like the fanbases never come to an agreement on what I consider a fair trade (not saying my idea is fair, but just on this thread in general). All fan bases love their own players as they should. I'm also a massive AB fan, and I want him to end up in a great situation. I'm a fan of what the 76ers are building, but I also think they need to get some veteran leadership that will actually command the attention of guys in the locker room (Bayless and Henderson aren't turning the heads of young guys that may already be more talented than them). Maybe Avery Bradley isn't that guy, but I think he's an even better fit now that Fultz is in Philly.

There are only 4-5 backcourts in the NBA with 2 dynamic offensive studs: GS, Washington, Toronto, Phoenix (with Bledsoe healthy) and Portland? I may be missing some, but those are the ones that stand out. Of those 4, Fultz matches up far better against Klay, Beal, Derozan, Booker, and CJ (Portland has 2 small quicker guards so it's not as relevant) than Curry, Wall, Lowry, Bledsoe, and Lillard. AB is THE premier small/quick elite guard defender in the NBA. Then you have CP3, IT, Kyrie, Conley, and a few others (without elite perimeter counterparts) that Fultz will have serious difficulty defending any time soon.

Being able to pick and choose Fultz's matchup every night while adding one of the better off-ball offensive players in the league should help him develop more effectively on both ends. Investing more money in Covington (same age as AB but with zero meaningful game experience) who is a below 40% shooter for his career and is a streak at best 3 point shooter when Simmons is the highest upside piece on the roster. I guess Covington's size and perceived youth make him more attractive to 76ers fans than AB, but at the same age, I take the guy that keeps improving offensively whose already well respected on both ends around the league over the guy who has had a stagnant development that doesn't fit as well next to my star prospect.
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#68 » by ckchen » Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:57 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:Get half your trade kicker or stay and get none obviously has a tradeoff structure. /shrug.


Looks like CP also waived most of his trade kicker to facilitate the trade to HOU. That said, I still think this is more of a case of "paying" in order to get off of a team you want to leave/get to the team you want to go to, which I still don't think necessarily applies to this Crabbe situation, but FWIW, mea culpa.
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#69 » by Chris76 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:32 pm

Djh7475 wrote:
Foshan wrote:
Djh7475 wrote:I'm not sure how 76ers fan would feel about it, but a Rozier, Djack, and AB for Covington and Holmes deal makes a ton of sense for both sides. Fultz, Rozier, and AB could be a special backcourt rotation with a ton of upside. AB replaces (and upgrades) Covington and fits like a glove. Rozier gives the 76ers another high upside young combo guard that could actually get minutes in Philly. Djack can be cut, but getting rid of his $650k guarantee is necessary for the C's. With Simmons and Saric both healthy now, Holmes's role is going to be reduced (even moreso if Embiid/Okafor are healthy). With 1 year left on his contract, moving him now for legit value makes sense.

I appreciate some of your thought process in the previous post, but Philly has no interest in moving RoCo. In fact there was a thread here (or maybe on the 6ers board, sorry i don't remember) where a deal based around just Holmes for AB earned "no ways" from both philly and boston fans. Seeing as Rozier and Djack do little to nothing for us (Fultz starting, vet presence in Bayless, TJ a reliable 3rd PG) it would seem to me your proposal is pretty off.

I also can't see a lot of people overpaying for AB ... doesn't Boston need to move him to get Hayward/George?

That said, i don't dislike AB, and getting him to extend to a big declining deal now (RoCo too) could sure up our starting line going forward with Fultz - AB - RoCo - Simmons - Embiid, but i'm very willing to let tlc grow into that spot, or try to get danny green, sign reddick or any number of other options.


Fair points. I'm a Celtics fan, and it seems like the fanbases never come to an agreement on what I consider a fair trade (not saying my idea is fair, but just on this thread in general). All fan bases love their own players as they should. I'm also a massive AB fan, and I want him to end up in a great situation. I'm a fan of what the 76ers are building, but I also think they need to get some veteran leadership that will actually command the attention of guys in the locker room (Bayless and Henderson aren't turning the heads of young guys that may already be more talented than them). Maybe Avery Bradley isn't that guy, but I think he's an even better fit now that Fultz is in Philly.

There are only 4-5 backcourts in the NBA with 2 dynamic offensive studs: GS, Washington, Toronto, Phoenix (with Bledsoe healthy) and Portland? I may be missing some, but those are the ones that stand out. Of those 4, Fultz matches up far better against Klay, Beal, Derozan, Booker, and CJ (Portland has 2 small quicker guards so it's not as relevant) than Curry, Wall, Lowry, Bledsoe, and Lillard. AB is THE premier small/quick elite guard defender in the NBA. Then you have CP3, IT, Kyrie, Conley, and a few others (without elite perimeter counterparts) that Fultz will have serious difficulty defending any time soon.

Being able to pick and choose Fultz's matchup every night while adding one of the better off-ball offensive players in the league should help him develop more effectively on both ends. Investing more money in Covington (same age as AB but with zero meaningful game experience) who is a below 40% shooter for his career and is a streak at best 3 point shooter when Simmons is the highest upside piece on the roster. I guess Covington's size and perceived youth make him more attractive to 76ers fans than AB, but at the same age, I take the guy that keeps improving offensively whose already well respected on both ends around the league over the guy who has had a stagnant development that doesn't fit as well next to my star prospect.


Roco fits great with the Sixers core.Also, TLC fits really well, he is great in transition just needs to get stronger. Maybe Holmes and Stauskus for Avery Bradley.
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#70 » by TurboTitan » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:26 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:I really don't think KCP or Otto would be worth the MAX deals they will command. KCP specifically is just tremendously overrated.

He is older, but Joe Ingles would be a much better, less costly option. Try for a 3 year, 36-40M contract with him. Reddick will cost a lot, but likely could be had for a shorter contract.

They DEFINATLEY should front load the hell out of a Covington extension. Give him like 25M this year. A combination of Ingles and Covington at SG/SF gives you two ideal role-players to have alongside the likely high usage big 3. Trade Okafor and Stauskas for a pick, IMO you could get a top 20 protected R1 for that duo. Deal TJ and a R2 for Beverly.

PG - Markell Fultz (30) / Patrick Beverly (18)
SG - Robert Covington (29) / Furkan Korkmaz (15)
SF - Joe Ingles (24) / Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot (20)
PF - Ben Simmons (30) / Dario Saric (28)
C - Joel Embiid (26) / Richaun Holmes (20)

MIN TOTAL - 240

Is KCP being overpriced or overrated? because most people know nothing about him so I don't see how he could be overrated...
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#71 » by HartfordWhalers » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:36 pm

TurboTitan wrote:Is KCP being overpriced or overrated? because most people know nothing about him so I don't see how he could be overrated...


Lets say I agree that most people know (almost) nothing about him. That doesn't mean he isn't overrated. People can -- with no knowledge of how he played on either end of the floor -- assume he is a (very) good two way player and budding near All Star. And that might be rosier than his actual production suggests.

For years on this board, people assumed that Drummond was a dominant defensive force without paying attention to if he actually was. The reputation came into existence and it wasn't questioned.

Back to KCP, he definitely has a reputation as one of the best rfa's to try and poach this offseason and a guy who could command a max salary; even if people aren't all that familiar with him besides knowing that reputation.
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#72 » by HartfordWhalers » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:37 pm

Chris76 wrote:Also, TLC fits really well, he is great in transition just needs to get stronger.


And maybe learn to shoot 3 pointers.
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#73 » by Chris76 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:54 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
Chris76 wrote:Also, TLC fits really well, he is great in transition just needs to get stronger.


And maybe learn to shoot 3 pointers.


He has a nice 3, very good mechanics. As a starter he played very well, and I thought his outside shooting improved as he got more comfortable, same as Stauskus, Saric, and Covington. However, I was more impressed with his transition finishing, very good hands, and bb iq. As a rookie, he proved that he belongs. Also, he is 6'7 a nice size for a SG.
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#74 » by HartfordWhalers » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:40 pm

Chris76 wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
Chris76 wrote:Also, TLC fits really well, he is great in transition just needs to get stronger.


And maybe learn to shoot 3 pointers.


He has a nice 3, very good mechanics. As a starter he played very well, and I thought his outside shooting improved as he got more comfortable, same as Stauskus, Saric, and Covington. However, I was more impressed with his transition finishing, very good hands, and bb iq. As a rookie, he proved that he belongs. Also, he is 6'7 a nice size for a SG.


He shot 31.1% from 3 on the season. 31.8% from March 1st on.
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#75 » by DoItALL9 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:41 pm

Ryan Anderson?

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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#76 » by ckchen » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:02 pm

DoItALL9 wrote:Ryan Anderson?

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Yeah, read the frontpage.

The market for Anderson, who has three years and $60 million remaining on his deal was incredibly soft.
At least two teams were demanding two first round picks from the Rockets in exchange for taking on Anderson and his contract.

Already discussed, but this just confirms how undesirable this dude's contract is.
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#77 » by psman2 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:19 pm

ckchen wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:Ryan Anderson?

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Yeah, read the frontpage.

The market for Anderson, who has three years and $60 million remaining on his deal was incredibly soft.
At least two teams were demanding two first round picks from the Rockets in exchange for taking on Anderson and his contract.

Already discussed, but this just confirms how undesirable this dude's contract is.


No it doesn't. Just because two team wanted a ransom does that set his market value. Is he a positive trade asset...no. Is he massively overpaid ...no. I believe there are several teams that would take him with a future 1st attached.

This week we will likely see who is right.
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#78 » by ckchen » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:29 pm

psman2 wrote:
ckchen wrote:
DoItALL9 wrote:Ryan Anderson?

Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app


Yeah, read the frontpage.

The market for Anderson, who has three years and $60 million remaining on his deal was incredibly soft.
At least two teams were demanding two first round picks from the Rockets in exchange for taking on Anderson and his contract.

Already discussed, but this just confirms how undesirable this dude's contract is.


No it doesn't. Just because two team wanted a ransom does that set his market value. Is he a positive trade asset...no. Is he massively overpaid ...no. I believe there are several teams that would take him with a future 1st attached.

This week we will likely see who is right.


But two teams is basically the entire market of teams who can actually trade him for cap space.
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#79 » by Fresh360Waves » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:58 pm

They should get Redick. Perfect fit. Front load the contract.
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Re: What to do with the Sixers 49 million in cap space 

Post#80 » by patman52 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:20 am

ckchen wrote:
psman2 wrote:
ckchen wrote:
Yeah, read the frontpage.

The market for Anderson, who has three years and $60 million remaining on his deal was incredibly soft.
At least two teams were demanding two first round picks from the Rockets in exchange for taking on Anderson and his contract.

Already discussed, but this just confirms how undesirable this dude's contract is.


No it doesn't. Just because two team wanted a ransom does that set his market value. Is he a positive trade asset...no. Is he massively overpaid ...no. I believe there are several teams that would take him with a future 1st attached.

This week we will likely see who is right.


But two teams is basically the entire market of teams who can actually trade him for cap space.


there about

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