Available backup pgs?

[Scoot McGroot]

If the price is nothing (bjelica/Joseph) I'd do it. If it costs us more than that id probably balk. It's hard to justify paying Fox the max, Buddy 20+, Ricky 17, and having Hali also needing big minutes.

That said, this role is a guy who ideally should play 10-15, but with Walton going Fox- Hali - Buddy to end games, Rubio would figure to see 20-25 mpg for us so I'd stomach that extra year if it was a cheap pickup.

I think there’s some possibilities here. Bjelica would be more valuable in MIN, and Rubio is getting frozen out by Russell, and would probably return to form with the Kings. One problem is that this deal adds $2.7 mil to MIN, who is dangerously close to the lux. I would suggest

SAC GETS: Rubio, Layman
MIN GETS: Bjelica, Joseph

For SAC, Rubio is an upgrade over Joseph, and a pass-first defender would be a decent fit on the Kings .. I agree he would get 20-25 minutes, and be a legitimate option to start if there is an injury. Hopefully he can pass on some wisdom to the young Fox and Hali, and Buddy would love him. Layman costs $3.8, $3.9, and is an adequately paid vet that would be in the rotation at SF, which is a difficult spot to fill. This makes them better, it costs them no assets they may want to use elsewhere, but they have to make a two-year salary commitment.

For MIN, Bjelica would help stabilize a pretty risky PF situation, and he has familiarity playing next to KAT. I think Rubio is a good team player, but he is a horrible fit with Russell (and Russell is making sure of that), and the extra year is looking uncomfortable if he stays. Layman is coming off some injuries and the birth of a child which has gotten him off to a bad start, but he is coming around now. However, rookie Jaden McDaniels has looked really good, and MIN would probably like to keep giving him minutes. This deal clears both salaries for next year.

Note, if you prefer getting Josh Okogie instead of Layman, he’d probably cost you a non-lotto pick. He has been awful when asked to be a shooter, and his offensive game really only involves finishing at the rim. However, he has been MIN’s best defender, stopping the point of attack, and his energy is non-stop. He isn’t quite as fast as Fox, but he’d certainly fit in with a team that loves to run.

I like it, but I personally need a little clarification on the Kings cap situation pertaining to Holmes and only having early bird rights.

I've heard some stuff about us not being able to give Holmes more than MLE because we are already projected over the cap (I think those people are wrong and are considering Joseph as a guaranteed contract). I believe we should be able to offer him around 13 million annually right now.

It really all boils down to that. If the Kings could comfortably resign Holmes to the MLE, I would take this deal. Id probably ask for any pure expiring instead of Layman, Ed Davis would be perfect and saves the wolves a bit of money this year. Kings could probably include a 2nd if that was a sticking point.

That said, If Holmes is expecting a bit more (12-13 mil annually?) then I would pass. I like Rubio but I don't think upgrading our 4th guard is worth losing our only center. We saw what happened with Toronto trying to get by with guys like Baynes/Len, and the Kings have no reasonable replacement on the horizon.

So, y’all will have early bird rights on him. This allows you to re-sign him for up to a 175% of his previous year’s salary (which would allow up to $8.75m-ish) or up to 105% of the average league salary (which is projected around $10m for this year, so maybe a tad over that, and allowing a salary of around $11m), whichever is larger. Any deal using early bird rights must be for at least 2 years. So, those are your options using just his early bird rights.

Using cap space, when your pick is accounted for and CoJo is waived for his partial guarantee (and other non-guarantees), you’re around $13m in cap space, total. Holmes’ cap hold is $6.5m, which would leave you with $6.5m-ish in cap space left, leading SAC to operate as an “over the cap team”. So, you could always renounce his cap hold to re-sign Homes using up to that $13m-ish in cap space, but then you’d lose the full MLE and BAE, and instead have just the Room Exception leftover after. Or, if you can get him to re-sign using his Early Bird Rights, y’all would likely operate over the cap, and have both the full MLE and the BAE to use for free agency. This choice can also be made at essentially any point, so you could keep the cap hold, negotiate, and decide what to do, before you would use any of the free agency exceptions like the MLE, BAE, or room exception.

[LightTheBeam]

I think there’s some possibilities here. Bjelica would be more valuable in MIN, and Rubio is getting frozen out by Russell, and would probably return to form with the Kings. One problem is that this deal adds $2.7 mil to MIN, who is dangerously close to the lux. I would suggest

SAC GETS: Rubio, Layman
MIN GETS: Bjelica, Joseph

For SAC, Rubio is an upgrade over Joseph, and a pass-first defender would be a decent fit on the Kings .. I agree he would get 20-25 minutes, and be a legitimate option to start if there is an injury. Hopefully he can pass on some wisdom to the young Fox and Hali, and Buddy would love him. Layman costs $3.8, $3.9, and is an adequately paid vet that would be in the rotation at SF, which is a difficult spot to fill. This makes them better, it costs them no assets they may want to use elsewhere, but they have to make a two-year salary commitment.

For MIN, Bjelica would help stabilize a pretty risky PF situation, and he has familiarity playing next to KAT. I think Rubio is a good team player, but he is a horrible fit with Russell (and Russell is making sure of that), and the extra year is looking uncomfortable if he stays. Layman is coming off some injuries and the birth of a child which has gotten him off to a bad start, but he is coming around now. However, rookie Jaden McDaniels has looked really good, and MIN would probably like to keep giving him minutes. This deal clears both salaries for next year.

Note, if you prefer getting Josh Okogie instead of Layman, he’d probably cost you a non-lotto pick. He has been awful when asked to be a shooter, and his offensive game really only involves finishing at the rim. However, he has been MIN’s best defender, stopping the point of attack, and his energy is non-stop. He isn’t quite as fast as Fox, but he’d certainly fit in with a team that loves to run.

I like it, but I personally need a little clarification on the Kings cap situation pertaining to Holmes and only having early bird rights.

I've heard some stuff about us not being able to give Holmes more than MLE because we are already projected over the cap (I think those people are wrong and are considering Joseph as a guaranteed contract). I believe we should be able to offer him around 13 million annually right now.

It really all boils down to that. If the Kings could comfortably resign Holmes to the MLE, I would take this deal. Id probably ask for any pure expiring instead of Layman, Ed Davis would be perfect and saves the wolves a bit of money this year. Kings could probably include a 2nd if that was a sticking point.

That said, If Holmes is expecting a bit more (12-13 mil annually?) then I would pass. I like Rubio but I don't think upgrading our 4th guard is worth losing our only center. We saw what happened with Toronto trying to get by with guys like Baynes/Len, and the Kings have no reasonable replacement on the horizon.

So, y’all will have early bird rights on him. This allows you to re-sign him for up to a 175% of his previous year’s salary (which would allow up to $8.75m-ish) or up to 105% of the average league salary (which is projected around $10m for this year, so maybe a tad over that, and allowing a salary of around $11m), whichever is larger. Any deal using early bird rights must be for at least 2 years. So, those are your options using just his early bird rights.

Using cap space, when your pick is accounted for and CoJo is waived for his partial guarantee (and other non-guarantees), you’re around $13m in cap space, total. Holmes’ cap hold is $6.5m, which would leave you with $6.5m-ish in cap space left, leading SAC to operate as an “over the cap team”. So, you could always renounce his cap hold to re-sign Homes using up to that $13m-ish in cap space, but then you’d lose the full MLE and BAE, and instead have just the Room Exception leftover after. Or, if you can get him to re-sign using his Early Bird Rights, y’all would likely operate over the cap, and have both the full MLE and the BAE to use for free agency. This choice can also be made at essentially any point, so you could keep the cap hold, negotiate, and decide what to do, before you would use any of the free agency exceptions like the MLE, BAE, or room exception.

Ahh this is exactly what I needed.

So roughly 10.5-11 million using early bird rights or 13 million if we use our cap space. The next question I have is that 10.5 million able to escalate through the years? For instance can he sign a 4/48 million where first year is 10.5 - 11.5 - 12.5 - 13.5? If so then is seems like a no brainer to just give him that. I think hes easily worth 4/48 id feel comfortable giving him that.

[Scoot McGroot]

I like it, but I personally need a little clarification on the Kings cap situation pertaining to Holmes and only having early bird rights.

I've heard some stuff about us not being able to give Holmes more than MLE because we are already projected over the cap (I think those people are wrong and are considering Joseph as a guaranteed contract). I believe we should be able to offer him around 13 million annually right now.

It really all boils down to that. If the Kings could comfortably resign Holmes to the MLE, I would take this deal. Id probably ask for any pure expiring instead of Layman, Ed Davis would be perfect and saves the wolves a bit of money this year. Kings could probably include a 2nd if that was a sticking point.

That said, If Holmes is expecting a bit more (12-13 mil annually?) then I would pass. I like Rubio but I don't think upgrading our 4th guard is worth losing our only center. We saw what happened with Toronto trying to get by with guys like Baynes/Len, and the Kings have no reasonable replacement on the horizon.

So, y’all will have early bird rights on him. This allows you to re-sign him for up to a 175% of his previous year’s salary (which would allow up to $8.75m-ish) or up to 105% of the average league salary (which is projected around $10m for this year, so maybe a tad over that, and allowing a salary of around $11m), whichever is larger. Any deal using early bird rights must be for at least 2 years. So, those are your options using just his early bird rights.

Using cap space, when your pick is accounted for and CoJo is waived for his partial guarantee (and other non-guarantees), you’re around $13m in cap space, total. Holmes’ cap hold is $6.5m, which would leave you with $6.5m-ish in cap space left, leading SAC to operate as an “over the cap team”. So, you could always renounce his cap hold to re-sign Homes using up to that $13m-ish in cap space, but then you’d lose the full MLE and BAE, and instead have just the Room Exception leftover after. Or, if you can get him to re-sign using his Early Bird Rights, y’all would likely operate over the cap, and have both the full MLE and the BAE to use for free agency. This choice can also be made at essentially any point, so you could keep the cap hold, negotiate, and decide what to do, before you would use any of the free agency exceptions like the MLE, BAE, or room exception.

Ahh this is exactly what I needed.

So roughly 10.5-11 million using early bird rights or 13 million if we use our cap space. The next question I have is that 10.5 million able to escalate through the years? For instance can he sign a 4/48 million where first year is 10.5 - 11.5 - 12.5 - 13.5? If so then is seems like a no brainer to just give him that. I think hes easily worth 4/48 id feel comfortable giving him that.

Up to a 4 year deal with 8% raise on the first year. So, if the average annual salary part allows a first year salary of $11m, so $880k yearly raises. A 4 year deal would max around line up as $11m, $11.88m, $12.76m, and $13.64m, for a 4 year total of $49.28m is about the absolute maximum salary you could offer him without carving out a larger cap space argument. Otherwise, the $13m cap gets chewed up by minimum salary holds, which would mean you’d probably realistically max out at an offer around $10.5-$11.5m as currently lined up, so pretty much the same as your early bird rights would allow you. But, it’s really close/borderline to a TON of other options with almost ANY single trade you might make.

[LightTheBeam]

So, y’all will have early bird rights on him. This allows you to re-sign him for up to a 175% of his previous year’s salary (which would allow up to $8.75m-ish) or up to 105% of the average league salary (which is projected around $10m for this year, so maybe a tad over that, and allowing a salary of around $11m), whichever is larger. Any deal using early bird rights must be for at least 2 years. So, those are your options using just his early bird rights.

Using cap space, when your pick is accounted for and CoJo is waived for his partial guarantee (and other non-guarantees), you’re around $13m in cap space, total. Holmes’ cap hold is $6.5m, which would leave you with $6.5m-ish in cap space left, leading SAC to operate as an “over the cap team”. So, you could always renounce his cap hold to re-sign Homes using up to that $13m-ish in cap space, but then you’d lose the full MLE and BAE, and instead have just the Room Exception leftover after. Or, if you can get him to re-sign using his Early Bird Rights, y’all would likely operate over the cap, and have both the full MLE and the BAE to use for free agency. This choice can also be made at essentially any point, so you could keep the cap hold, negotiate, and decide what to do, before you would use any of the free agency exceptions like the MLE, BAE, or room exception.

Ahh this is exactly what I needed.

So roughly 10.5-11 million using early bird rights or 13 million if we use our cap space. The next question I have is that 10.5 million able to escalate through the years? For instance can he sign a 4/48 million where first year is 10.5 - 11.5 - 12.5 - 13.5? If so then is seems like a no brainer to just give him that. I think hes easily worth 4/48 id feel comfortable giving him that.

Up to a 4 year deal with 8% raise on the first year. So, if the average annual salary part allows a first year salary of $11m, so $880k yearly raises. A 4 year deal would max around line up as $11m, $11.88m, $12.76m, and $13.64m, for a 4 year total of $49.28m is about the absolute maximum salary you could offer him without carving out a larger cap space argument. Otherwise, the $13m cap gets chewed up by minimum salary holds, which would mean you’d probably realistically max out at an offer around $10.5-$11.5m as currently lined up, so pretty much the same as your early bird rights would allow you. But, it’s really close/borderline to a TON of other options with almost ANY single trade you might make.

Ya so realistically this seems like the no brainer option.

Id pull the trigger on a Rubio trade. Resign Holmes for 4/48, use the MLE for a decent bench guy and run out -

Fox/Rubio
Hali/Buddy
Barnes/MLE
Bagley/
Holmes/Rookie

Seems like a solid 9 man rotation depending on what we could fetch with the MLE. 4 young guys to grow with, 5 vets with Rubio being the only guy over 30.

Bonus pts. Just found out Rubio was born the exact day as me, only 1 year older than me. Now I really want him lol

[Scoot McGroot]

Ahh this is exactly what I needed.

So roughly 10.5-11 million using early bird rights or 13 million if we use our cap space. The next question I have is that 10.5 million able to escalate through the years? For instance can he sign a 4/48 million where first year is 10.5 - 11.5 - 12.5 - 13.5? If so then is seems like a no brainer to just give him that. I think hes easily worth 4/48 id feel comfortable giving him that.

Up to a 4 year deal with 8% raise on the first year. So, if the average annual salary part allows a first year salary of $11m, so $880k yearly raises. A 4 year deal would max around line up as $11m, $11.88m, $12.76m, and $13.64m, for a 4 year total of $49.28m is about the absolute maximum salary you could offer him without carving out a larger cap space argument. Otherwise, the $13m cap gets chewed up by minimum salary holds, which would mean you’d probably realistically max out at an offer around $10.5-$11.5m as currently lined up, so pretty much the same as your early bird rights would allow you. But, it’s really close/borderline to a TON of other options with almost ANY single trade you might make.

Ya so realistically this seems like the no brainer option.

Id pull the trigger on a Rubio trade. Resign Holmes for 4/48, use the MLE for a decent bench guy and run out -

Fox/Rubio
Hali/Buddy
Barnes/MLE
Bagley/
Holmes/Rookie

Seems like a solid 9 man rotation depending on what we could fetch with the MLE. 4 young guys to grow with, 5 vets with Rubio being the only guy over 30.

Bonus pts. Just found out Rubio was born the exact day as me, only 1 year older than me. Now I really want him lol

Realistically, if you took on Rubio/Layman, and gave Holmes the max you could with his Early Bird rights, when you add in a draft pick salary, you’re only a couple million under the tax line. With a full MLE, and filling out the last couple roster spots, you’d solidly be a tax paying team. Is that something you see realistically happening?

[zimpy27]

I wonder if you could swap Joseph and a 2nd or two for Delon Wright. He's a better two-way guy than Joseph, isn't too old, his future salary fits your margins; Pistons still get a depth guard back in Joseph and can cut him next year and keep whatever sweeteners the teams agree on.

BINGO!