Fixing New Orleans

[Xman]

Well, there are two elite defensive players that could really help NO in my opinion: JBrown and Simmons. The problem is it would take a massive overpay to get either one.
JBrown is amazing on defense and has improved his shooting. If Boston falls into lottery, maybe?
Simmons cannot shoot but would be scary around Zion. Two mismatch guys.

How much do you add to a package:
Bledsoe - negative but a salary filler
Hayes - value as recent first
KLewis - value as recent first
Lottery pick - #12 or so - much better discussion if top 4.
Definite must picks: 2022 and 2024 LAL 1sts, 2025 and 2027 Mil 1sts
NO picks and swap rights?

[lordjeff05]

My dream off-season would be trading Bledsoe, our pick and the Lakers pick for Larry Nance and Taurean Prince. And resigning Hart and Zo.

I love this move for NO. Not sure you need to add that LAL pick if the Pelicans remain around #11 in 2021 draft.

Uh, they might, but it will be a little close. Nance should return good value on his own, and here, the Cavs would also be dealing the expiring Prince for Bledsoe's partial guarantee a year after. 11 might be enough. But 13 might not be, if that makes sense? It's a pretty thin line.

I’d also add the Cleveland and Washington seconds to finish the deal. We don’t have the energy to develop any more guys this year anyway.

We have 4 guys who are in their second year or less and Didi Louzada, a draft and stash, may be coming next year. It’s too much to give our current guys minutes and development time AND develop new guys next year. Im all for taking a break from the draft this year so we can focus on developing our existing young guys ( who are playing great).

[Devilanche]

Well, there are two elite defensive players that could really help NO in my opinion: JBrown and Simmons. The problem is it would take a massive overpay to get either one.
JBrown is amazing on defense and has improved his shooting. If Boston falls into lottery, maybe?
Simmons cannot shoot but would be scary around Zion. Two mismatch guys.

How much do you add to a package:
Bledsoe - negative but a salary filler
Hayes - value as recent first
KLewis - value as recent first
Lottery pick - #12 or so - much better discussion if top 4.
Definite must picks: 2022 and 2024 LAL 1sts, 2025 and 2027 Mil 1sts
NO picks and swap rights?

I don’t think there’s a singular core asset there that can net back either Simmons or brown

[lordjeff05]

I know this isn't a Ja vs Zion thread but to argue that debate isn't warranted is silly, Zion is an amazing talent and no one is debating that but the fact he hasn't lead a team of arguably more talent than Ja has to at least an equal record isn't unreasonable.

To the original OP's topic, The pelicans are horrible defensively, and to have to talents like Ingram and Williamson and starting they have to both get better defensively or that pairing needs to be broken up eventually

Yeah I have to push back on this. And these arguments get kinda weird because Ja is a great player and no one should discount that, but Zion is on another level.

Yes Z and BI have to get better on defense but Ja is also a defensive liability, he’s just easier to hide at his position much like Dame or even Steph to a certain extent.

As I said before, the Pels primary issue has been bench minutes and clutch minutes. The Pels may have more talent but Memphis has players that fit better naturally next to their star, and have had a combo of vets and older rooks to bolster their stars.

The Pels had a combo of disappointing vets like Melli and young guys that took a while to figure it out. The best example of this is Jaxon Hayes who looks like a different player post all star.

If Gorgui Dieng is a Pelican they have 3 more wins than they have now, crazy as that sounds, that’s how bad the bench was throughout much of the year. Same probably goes for a guy like Melton.

Fit matters especially for young guys, and point guards are easier to build a team around.

Having said all that, Ja is amazing, with a winner’s mentality and he is and will continue to be great. I just think Zion is better and it’s not really close.

[giberish]

If Turner was actually on the market last offseason they REALLY should have been pushing for him. That ship's probably sailed though, at least for any reasonable deal. I don't see the value in trading for Horford to play 20 mpg behind Adams (and completely bury Hayes if he has any value since none of them are playing PF).

IMO NO remains very thin on the 'big wing' type of player. Ingram is long but so thin that he plays smaller. Given his skill though he can easily slide to SG. Hart is more of a SG then a SF. And they've got plenty of other guards. The position they need to add is a SF/PF, maybe two (while thinning out the excess guard depth a bit). If they can get someone good, along with Zion improving that should help the defense and get them solidly over .500.

Something like this should be the goal:
Ball/Lewis
Ingram/(Bledsoe or NAW)
(SF/PF not currently on roster)/Hart
Zion/(SF/PF not currently on roster)
Adams/Hayes

Figure that Bledsoe or NAW are sent out in a trade (obviously different value and for different returns). Draft picks and MLE money could be used to fill two new spots one way or another.

[jayu70]

I don’t think NOP needs fixing. Their star is 20. Their 2/3 pieces are both only 23.

So now I think they have to start addressing that backcourt. Is that really some combo of Ball/NAW/Hart? I don't think it can be just that. It's not good enough. But keep Ball. Use some assets to go get a SG -- Beasley?, Atlanta will probably let you have Bogdan or Huerter(is he good enough?)

Why would Atlanta do that?

[LloydFree]

I think Horford could be a good fit with Zion. He is much more a small ball center these days than a power forward. Sending a 2nd to move Horford is the most draft capital I think Presti would trade away. I like it for both teams.

I wouldn't trade an asset to move Horford if it's the OP's proposed deal. Horford is more valuable than Bledsoe.

[Buzzard]

I think Horford could be a good fit with Zion. He is much more a small ball center these days than a power forward. Sending a 2nd to move Horford is the most draft capital I think Presti would trade away. I like it for both teams.

I wouldn't trade an asset to move Horford if it's the OP's proposed deal. Horford is more valuable than Bledsoe.

It really depends on what Presti may want to do in 2022/23 free agency. Bledsoe's contract is only guaranteed for 3.9 million. Horford is guaranteed for 14.5 in 2022/23. But with a catch that could very well happen. If the 76ers make the finals in any remaining year, including 2022/23, that guarantee goes up to 19.5 million.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-orleans-pelicans/eric-bledsoe-6900/

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder/al-horford-2199/

[zimpy27]

- Trade Ingram for Rubio+Edwards
- Trade Lonzo (S+T) for Lauri (S+T)
- Trade Adams+Bledsoe for Wiggins+Paschall

Rubio, Edwards, Wiggins, Zion, Lauri
Kira, NAW, Hart, Paschall, Hayes

[pcbothwel]

Focus on Zion. Give him High IQ defensive players and get out of his way.

- Trade Adams for Turner (include small assets such as NAW, future 1st, etc.)
- Draft Wagner at 10/11 and Scottie Lewis in the 2nd

Ball & Turner become elite 3 & D players at their position and let Zion be Zion. Wagner is a great glue player that can defend 3-4 positions, cut, move the ball, etc.

Obviously, trading Ingram is in the cards, but im thinking small moves for this discussion.

[Buzzard]

Focus on Zion. Give him High IQ defensive players and get out of his way.

- Trade Adams for Turner (include small assets such as NAW, future 1st, etc.)
- Draft Wagner at 10/11 and Scottie Lewis in the 2nd

Ball & Turner become elite 3 & D players at their position and let Zion be Zion. Wagner is a great glue player that can defend 3-4 positions, cut, move the ball, etc.

Obviously, trading Ingram is in the cards, but im thinking small moves for this discussion.

I like the idea of a Turner/Zion paring. I don't think you get Turner for anything less than a top 10 pick.

[lordjeff05]

- Trade Ingram for Rubio+Edwards
- Trade Lonzo (S+T) for Lauri (S+T)
- Trade Adams+Bledsoe for Wiggins+Paschall

Rubio, Edwards, Wiggins, Zion, Lauri
Kira, NAW, Hart, Paschall, Hayes

The shootIng in that starting lineup would he atrocious. The defensive pairing of Ingram and Z has been disappointing but they’ve showed that they can play well offensively together and I’m not sure why we’d trade a young wing who is a 3 level scorer.

[Scoot McGroot]

Focus on Zion. Give him High IQ defensive players and get out of his way.

- Trade Adams for Turner (include small assets such as NAW, future 1st, etc.)
- Draft Wagner at 10/11 and Scottie Lewis in the 2nd

Ball & Turner become elite 3 & D players at their position and let Zion be Zion. Wagner is a great glue player that can defend 3-4 positions, cut, move the ball, etc.

Obviously, trading Ingram is in the cards, but im thinking small moves for this discussion.

Boy, that would be great for NO. They should absolutely deal Adams and small value for Turner. They would really improve. Bigger question is: why would Indy deal Turner for such little value and get worse?

[pcbothwel]

Focus on Zion. Give him High IQ defensive players and get out of his way.

- Trade Adams for Turner (include small assets such as NAW, future 1st, etc.)
- Draft Wagner at 10/11 and Scottie Lewis in the 2nd

Ball & Turner become elite 3 & D players at their position and let Zion be Zion. Wagner is a great glue player that can defend 3-4 positions, cut, move the ball, etc.

Obviously, trading Ingram is in the cards, but im thinking small moves for this discussion.

Boy, that would be great for NO. They should absolutely deal Adams and small value for Turner. They would really improve. Bigger question is: why would Indy deal Turner for such little value and get worse?

I mean, both are Centers in their Prime making 17-18M over the next two years. Turner is clearly the better player this year, but some of that has to do with Adams being a poor fit with Zion. Adams from last year is probably a better player than Turner this year, but really depends on fit.

The Pacers would do it as they would get an asset (Future 1st?) for Turner. I think Adams could be sent to a third team if necessary for a team needing a tough big. Knicks, Mavs, Hornets, etc.

[Scoot McGroot]

Focus on Zion. Give him High IQ defensive players and get out of his way.

- Trade Adams for Turner (include small assets such as NAW, future 1st, etc.)
- Draft Wagner at 10/11 and Scottie Lewis in the 2nd

Ball & Turner become elite 3 & D players at their position and let Zion be Zion. Wagner is a great glue player that can defend 3-4 positions, cut, move the ball, etc.

Obviously, trading Ingram is in the cards, but im thinking small moves for this discussion.

Boy, that would be great for NO. They should absolutely deal Adams and small value for Turner. They would really improve. Bigger question is: why would Indy deal Turner for such little value and get worse?

I mean, both are Centers in their Prime making 17-18M over the next two years. Turner is clearly the better player this year, but some of that has to do with Adams being a poor fit with Zion. Adams from last year is probably a better player than Turner this year, but really depends on fit.

The Pacers would do it as they would get an asset (Future 1st?) for Turner. I think Adams could be sent to a third team if necessary for a team needing a tough big. Knicks, Mavs, Hornets, etc.

Disagree that Adams was a better player than Turner last year, but if Zion/Adams is a bad pairing, why would Sabonis/Adams be any better? Wouldn’t it be one of the worst big man pairings in the league?

Just getting a future 1st wouldn’t be the incentive to drive Indy to deal their defensive centerpiece.

[Mike lorenzo]

NOP
In: FVV / Anunoby / Williams / Horford
Out: Ingram / Adams / Bledsoe / NAW / Lakers 21

THUNDER
In: Bledsoe / Hood / NAW / Lakers 21 ..
Out: Horford / L. Williams ..

Thunder gets, Lottery prospectus.
- Long-term savings ..
1 late round .. (Great Victory for Presti)

RAPTORS
In: Ingram / Adams
Out: Anunoby / FVV / Hood

They get a young Star for 2 ... very good Role players ..
Adams in a position of need ..

FA
bring back Lonzo and Hart ...
B.Portis ..

Draft
-Frank Wagner or Kai Jones or Kisper

Lonzo / K. Lewis
FVV / Williams
Anunoby / Hart / Draft
Zion / B. Portis
Horford / Hayes

[bondom34]

Boy, that would be great for NO. They should absolutely deal Adams and small value for Turner. They would really improve. Bigger question is: why would Indy deal Turner for such little value and get worse?

I mean, both are Centers in their Prime making 17-18M over the next two years. Turner is clearly the better player this year, but some of that has to do with Adams being a poor fit with Zion. Adams from last year is probably a better player than Turner this year, but really depends on fit.

The Pacers would do it as they would get an asset (Future 1st?) for Turner. I think Adams could be sent to a third team if necessary for a team needing a tough big. Knicks, Mavs, Hornets, etc.

Disagree that Adams was a better player than Turner last year, but if Zion/Adams is a bad pairing, why would Sabonis/Adams be any better? Wouldn’t it be one of the worst big man pairings in the league?

Just getting a future 1st wouldn’t be the incentive to drive Indy to deal their defensive centerpiece.

Saw Sabonis/Adams already (yes he was a rookie but still). Would not recommend trying it again.

[Texas Chuck]

Boy, that would be great for NO. They should absolutely deal Adams and small value for Turner. They would really improve. Bigger question is: why would Indy deal Turner for such little value and get worse?

This doesn't bode well for my Dallas off-season plan of getting good players for our mediocre players and limited assets.

But yeah the difference in value between Adams and Turner has to be more than that without even getting into the obvious issue of there being no real role for Adams in Indiana. bothwell did mention some 3rd teams but it gets tricky. Dallas could use a player like Adams, but they would insist on sending Powell to Indiana and likely wouldn't add much value. Knicks probably would explore other uses of their space first and would probably ask for value to take on that contract, not add any.

The problem is the Adams issue was a self-inflicted wound and not even with the benefit of hindsight. I think almost all of us were scratching our heads at why they traded for him and immediately extended him.

[Scoot McGroot]

Boy, that would be great for NO. They should absolutely deal Adams and small value for Turner. They would really improve. Bigger question is: why would Indy deal Turner for such little value and get worse?

This doesn't bode well for my Dallas off-season plan of getting good players for our mediocre players and limited assets.

But yeah the difference in value between Adams and Turner has to be more than that without even getting into the obvious issue of there being no real role for Adams in Indiana. bothwell did mention some 3rd teams but it gets tricky. Dallas could use a player like Adams, but they would insist on sending Powell to Indiana and likely wouldn't add much value. Knicks probably would explore other uses of their space first and would probably ask for value to take on that contract, not add any.

The problem is the Adams issue was a self-inflicted wound and not even with the benefit of hindsight. I think almost all of us were scratching our heads at why they traded for him and immediately extended him.

I’ll Say this: I like Adams. If, hypothetically, Indy were to do a huge rebuild and move BOTH Turner and Sabonis, I would like Adams as a platoon mate for Goga at the 5 for the next 2 years. But If we keep Sabonis, there’s absolutely no spot for Adams. If we keep Turner and Goga, there’s no spot for Adams. If we dealt Sabonis and Goga, I wouldn’t love Adams in a 15-20 minute per night backup role. There’s just really no spot for Adams in Indy.

[lordjeff05]

NOP
In: FVV / Anunoby / Williams / Horford
Out: Ingram / Adams / Bledsoe / NAW / Lakers 21

THUNDER
In: Bledsoe / Hood / NAW / Lakers 21 ..
Out: Horford / L. Williams ..

Thunder gets, Lottery prospectus.
- Long-term savings ..
1 late round .. (Great Victory for Presti)

RAPTORS
In: Ingram / Adams
Out: Anunoby / FVV / Hood

They get a young Star for 2 ... very good Role players ..
Adams in a position of need ..

FA
bring back Lonzo and Hart ...
B.Portis ..

Draft
-Frank Wagner or Kai Jones or Kisper

Lonzo / K. Lewis
FVV / Williams
Anunoby / Hart / Draft
Zion / B. Portis
Horford / Hayes

Not enough value for Ingram even before adding the first