Davis Bertans for any trash you have, literally any.....

[Mavrelous]

Watching DAL, they need one of THJ/Bertans offense, none of the players on roster can go off like Timmy used to and many times this is needed, I don't think they're giving up on both of them very quickly, and THJ at 54/3 isn't "huge negative", he's pretty close to neutral.

[daoneandonly]

Watching DAL, they need one of THJ/Bertans offense, none of the players on roster can go off like Timmy used to and many times this is needed, I don't think they're giving up on both of them very quickly, and THJ at 54/3 isn't "huge negative", he's pretty close to neutral.

Yeah THJ's contract is declining and he does bring other things to the table, unlike another guy on the team, but that's why this thread was created.

[Godaddycurse]

Watching DAL, they need one of THJ/Bertans offense, none of the players on roster can go off like Timmy used to and many times this is needed, I don't think they're giving up on both of them very quickly, and THJ at 54/3 isn't "huge negative", he's pretty close to neutral.

Depends how he does next year. based on this year's performance it's pretty negative. I think he is shooting similarly to Bullock who is making 1/2 as much and plays better defense than THJ. He did well for 2 years before his FA so there's a decent chance he bounce back. I am weary when i see someone perform badly right after signing a new contract though.

[Mavrelous]

Watching DAL, they need one of THJ/Bertans offense, none of the players on roster can go off like Timmy used to and many times this is needed, I don't think they're giving up on both of them very quickly, and THJ at 54/3 isn't "huge negative", he's pretty close to neutral.

Depends how he does next year. based on this year's performance it's pretty negative. I think he is shooting similarly to Bullock who is making 1/2 as much and plays better defense than THJ. He did well for 2 years before his FA so there's a decent chance he bounce back. I am weary when i see someone perform badly right after signing a new contract though.

Half of the league was shooting horribly at the start of the season, and DAL had coaching change and offense was a complete mess to start the season, players cutting during a P&R action, multiple shooters on one side, etc...
I understand if one would want to wait, OTOH, he can't be valued based on half a season, when there were obvious mitigating factors, a plyer of THJ calibre at 54/3 isn't a bad contract.
OG is shooting 35.5% after 2 season of 39 and 40, Duncan Robinson also dropped significantly , Beal (on a contract year), Reggie Jackson, Bogie, Are they all bad shooters now? Reggie Bullock had horrible November and December shooting months, and shot lights out January and February, he's back to horrible in March.

[Texas Chuck]

yeah I find it interesting which posters really put a ton of weight into small shooting samples versus longer term track records. I'll be honest I always default to track record. If you are a low 30's guy over your career(Dinwiddie) who shoots in the high 30's for a couple months, I'm still going to think of you based on those career marks. Same if you are Joe Harris and shoot in the mid 40's over big samples and have one poor playoff series. I still believe you are an elite shooter.

So for Timmy, I trust he's a high 30's guy on high volume because he's been that for years now. If next year when he's back he's still shooting in the low 30's I'll have to re-calibrate. Same with Bertans, if he actually shoots poorly next year as opposed to the invented track record itt where he's on an extended decline he's not actually on.

As to value, I think Timmy is probably slightly negative. Less the money amount and more the years for me. But obviously attached to Bertans this is now more than $30M and two rosters spots and I have that a pretty big ask of teams to take on for multiple years.

I think Dallas gets more value out of playing them than trading them. Especially Timmy who is also a valued leader on the team.

[Godaddycurse]

OG is shooting 35.5% after 2 season of 39 and 40, Duncan Robinson also dropped significantly , Beal (on a contract year), Reggie Jackson, Bogie, Are they all bad shooters now? Reggie Bullock had horrible November and December shooting months, and shot lights out January and February, he's back to horrible in March.

OG was apparently playing with a fractured finger in his shooting hand which would explain his big shooting slump middle of the season. 1st game back looks good from 3 so far so hopefully he will pick it back up. FWIW I am also weary on Duncan playing poorly right after starting a new contract. I think its reasonable to expect a bounce back for both THJ and Duncan next year, but they might not either and that is a sizable risk when they are paid so much to be elite at one thing.

[Godaddycurse]

yeah I find it interesting which posters really put a ton of weight into small shooting samples versus longer term track records. I'll be honest I always default to track record. If you are a low 30's guy over your career(Dinwiddie) who shoots in the high 30's for a couple months, I'm still going to think of you based on those career marks. Same if you are Joe Harris and shoot in the mid 40's over big samples and have one poor playoff series. I still believe you are an elite shooter.

So for Timmy, I trust he's a high 30's guy on high volume because he's been that for years now. If next year when he's back he's still shooting in the low 30's I'll have to re-calibrate. Same with Bertans, if he actually shoots poorly next year as opposed to the invented track record itt where he's on an extended decline he's not actually on.

As to value, I think Timmy is probably slightly negative. Less the money amount and more the years for me. But obviously attached to Bertans this is now more than $30M and two rosters spots and I have that a pretty big ask of teams to take on for multiple years.

I think Dallas gets more value out of playing them than trading them. Especially Timmy who is also a valued leader on the team.

THJ also had 4 years of below average shooting and 2 years of average shooting prior to his 2 good years in Dallas. His career 3 pt % is 35.8, which is a tad above average.

[Texas Chuck]

yeah I find it interesting which posters really put a ton of weight into small shooting samples versus longer term track records. I'll be honest I always default to track record. If you are a low 30's guy over your career(Dinwiddie) who shoots in the high 30's for a couple months, I'm still going to think of you based on those career marks. Same if you are Joe Harris and shoot in the mid 40's over big samples and have one poor playoff series. I still believe you are an elite shooter.

So for Timmy, I trust he's a high 30's guy on high volume because he's been that for years now. If next year when he's back he's still shooting in the low 30's I'll have to re-calibrate. Same with Bertans, if he actually shoots poorly next year as opposed to the invented track record itt where he's on an extended decline he's not actually on.

As to value, I think Timmy is probably slightly negative. Less the money amount and more the years for me. But obviously attached to Bertans this is now more than $30M and two rosters spots and I have that a pretty big ask of teams to take on for multiple years.

I think Dallas gets more value out of playing them than trading them. Especially Timmy who is also a valued leader on the team.

THJ also had 4 years of below average shooting and 2 years of average shooting prior to his 2 good years in Dallas. His career 3 pt % is 35.8, which is a tad above average.

Yes, but his good shooting is directly linked to a role change and the types of shots he takes now. In 2018 and 2019 when he had those low percentages he was shooting a much higher percentage of his 3's unassisted. Now he's mostly a finisher, rather than creating his own looks. In addition in Dallas he's taken a significantly higher percentage of his 3's from the corner which is an easier shot.

So I feel like I can trust him to be an above average 3-pt shooter on volume because in this role, that's exactly what he's been. I'm not trying to sell him as a Curry, Harris, Korver level shooter. I don't think he's that guy. But a guy who will shoot in the upper 30's with good size and athleticism, who can create his own shot late in the clock or when Luka misses a game, I think he's a useful player. Just his deal is too long and teams are loathe to trade for players with 3 full years left.

[NYG]

What about Randle and '23 Mavs 1st for Bertans, '22 Mavs 1st and '24 Mavs 1st?

[Apz]

What about Randle and '23 Mavs 1st for Bertans, '22 Mavs 1st and '24 Mavs 1st?

Not paying any 1st for randle. Atleast bertans fits

[ProcessDoctor]

I gotchu OP:


DAL out: THJ, Bertans, Powell, 2022/2025 FRPs
DAL in: Turner, Harris

Luka/Burke
Brunson/Dinwiddie
DFS/Bullock
*Tobi*/Chris
Turner/Kleber/*Bobi*


IND out: Turner, Hield
IND in: THJ, Bertans, 2022/2025 DAL FRPs, 2023 PHI FRP

*insert rebuilding lineup here*


PHI out: Harris, 2023 FRP
PHI in: Hield, Powell

Maxey/Milton
Harden/Hield
Thybulle/Green
FA/Niang
Embiid/Powell

[Mike lorenzo]

I gotchu OP:


DAL out: THJ, Bertans, Powell, 2022/2025 FRPs
DAL in: Turner, Harris

Luka/Burke
Brunson/Dinwiddie
DFS/Bullock
*Tobi*/Chris
Turner/Kleber/*Bobi*


IND out: Turner, Hield
IND in: THJ, Bertans, 2022/2025 DAL FRPs, 2023 PHI FRP

*insert rebuilding lineup here*


PHI out: Harris, 2023 FRP
PHI in: Hield, Powell

Maxey/Milton
Harden/Hield
Thybulle/Green
FA/Niang
Embiid/Powell

I would do this..

THJ/Maxi/Powell at 76ers

They get 3 solid players in positions of need and save for the long haul.


Bertans/Dallas22/25/76ers 23 at Pacers..

Harris/Turner to Mavs..

Little changes that I think sweeten the deal

[ProcessDoctor]

I gotchu OP:


DAL out: THJ, Bertans, Powell, 2022/2025 FRPs
DAL in: Turner, Harris

Luka/Burke
Brunson/Dinwiddie
DFS/Bullock
*Tobi*/Chris
Turner/Kleber/*Bobi*


IND out: Turner, Hield
IND in: THJ, Bertans, 2022/2025 DAL FRPs, 2023 PHI FRP

*insert rebuilding lineup here*


PHI out: Harris, 2023 FRP
PHI in: Hield, Powell

Maxey/Milton
Harden/Hield
Thybulle/Green
FA/Niang
Embiid/Powell

I would do this..

THJ/Maxi/Powell at 76ers

They get 3 solid players in positions of need and save for the long haul.


Bertans/Dallas22/25/76ers 23 at Pacers..

Harris/Turner to Mavs..

Little changes that I think sweeten the deal

I’d probably do this too but would really push for a THJ/Hield swap.

[Apz]

While technically getting the better players, i am not getting a role player on a 40m contract. Nnd definetly not paying for the pleasure. And turner expire soon right? The more i think about it the less i like turner for mavs.

[Mavrelous]

I gotchu OP:


DAL out: THJ, Bertans, Powell, 2022/2025 FRPs
DAL in: Turner, Harris

Luka/Burke
Brunson/Dinwiddie
DFS/Bullock
*Tobi*/Chris
Turner/Kleber/*Bobi*


IND out: Turner, Hield
IND in: THJ, Bertans, 2022/2025 DAL FRPs, 2023 PHI FRP

*insert rebuilding lineup here*


PHI out: Harris, 2023 FRP
PHI in: Hield, Powell

Maxey/Milton
Harden/Hield
Thybulle/Green
FA/Niang
Embiid/Powell

I would do this..

THJ/Maxi/Powell at 76ers

They get 3 solid players in positions of need and save for the long haul.


Bertans/Dallas22/25/76ers 23 at Pacers..

Harris/Turner to Mavs..

Little changes that I think sweeten the deal

I’d probably do this too but would really push for a THJ/Hield swap.

The Hield swap doesn't make sense for Indy, they don't want the THJ extra year, and THJ's main advantage over Hield willingness to play 6th man is irrelevant to them, Hield starts there..

[Mavrelous]

Minny game yesterday, and few games where DFS/Bullock/Maxi shot bad, while THJ is out for the year, demonstrate why they need Bertans, the opposing team simply blitzes Luka/Dinwiddie, packs the paint and ignores the perimeter.
There are many 3pt shooting players in the league, some even shoot high 30s, low 40s, but there is a huge difference in how pure shooters are defended and how the floor looks for the lead guard because of it.
KP wan't a great shooter, but he was respected shooter, THJ even when shooting badly is respected and keeps the defenses honest, Bertans is the same, on off shooting days by the role players, Luka, SD and Brunson are being killed in the paint.
I suspect Kidd and Nico are watching, and this will play huge factor in their decision to trade Bertans or not.

[Texas Chuck]

no question Dallas needs better shooters. They miss Seth badly. And while I don't think their teams are nearly as reactionary as posters here, but if Harris or Robinson were made available, Dallas needs to be making a play. You want to punish teams for doubling Luka and make it simply not a tenable option. And as a plus if you have better shooting now teams can't sink down and the Powell lob becomes ever more effective because nobody will leave a corner to protect against the lob.

[ProcessDoctor]

I would do this..

THJ/Maxi/Powell at 76ers

They get 3 solid players in positions of need and save for the long haul.


Bertans/Dallas22/25/76ers 23 at Pacers..

Harris/Turner to Mavs..

Little changes that I think sweeten the deal

I’d probably do this too but would really push for a THJ/Hield swap.

The Hield swap doesn't make sense for Indy, they don't want the THJ extra year, and THJ's main advantage over Hield willingness to play 6th man is irrelevant to them, Hield starts there..

I think they’re getting compensated for that here though. An expiring Turner isn’t worth three FRPs, even if Indiana’s taking on Bertans.

Indiana could always flip THJ/Bertans for additional picks later. I think the deal as originally proposed is as balanced as it could be.

[TGW]

Bertans plus more trash for Randle?

[babyjax13]

I think Dallas has enough bad money that they should be a candidate to aggregate it for Westbrook just to end the pain sooner. Something like Bertans + THJ + ??? for Westbrook + Reaves, then cut Westbrook. Reaves would be a nice rotation piece for them, it allows them to retain Brunson long-term, and they don't have Bertans and THJ on their books forever. The Lakers get some shooting to fill the edges of their roster, which they desperately need. THJ in particular would be a nice fit.