Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc... Take 6

[Texas Chuck]

Would you rather have CP3 on his current contract or Russell Westbrook and James Harden on veteran minimum deals?

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If I have room under the tax without gutting my roster and I have a team good enough to compete for titles, I want Paul because he's playing far better than Harden right now.

That example feels silly though as that's not a realistic option. But would I rather have Chris Paul or Desmond Bane with a contending team, I definitely want Chris Paul. If I have nothing to win with, then obviously you take Bane and hope his next contract isn't prohibitive as you build your team.

[Ell Curry]

So fwiw I would have Siakam with more trade value than Bane. Obviously Bane is an incredible value on his contract, but I don't really think any team sees him as a future star so I don't see anyone giving up a premium asset for him. I could see a team potentially doing so for in exchange for Siakam.

I think at times we overrate the impact a contract has and underrate the value of top end talent.

Now as to where Siakam ranks in comparison with other top players, I'm not in that fight.

I agree, but Bane being 23 and Siakam being 27 makes this close.

Let's say Bane gets as much as 120 over 4 years as an RFA because the cap is going up. That's 6 years, 126M for ages 24-29, versus 69.5M for 2 years of Siakam, then hopefully resigning him as a UFA and if you do, it's a 30 year old Siakam at maybe 170/4 or something, for a total of 240 or so over the 6.

That's damn near double the price over 6 years and 24-29 Bane vs 29-34 Siakam

Likely Siakam is better for the first 2-3 years and Bane the last 2-3, and at half the price.

You're right that once we're at the level of guys like this small margins matter far, far more than with role players, but that's a lot of money.

[Godaddycurse]

So fwiw I would have Siakam with more trade value than Bane. Obviously Bane is an incredible value on his contract, but I don't really think any team sees him as a future star so I don't see anyone giving up a premium asset for him. I could see a team potentially doing so for in exchange for Siakam.

I think at times we overrate the impact a contract has and underrate the value of top end talent.

Now as to where Siakam ranks in comparison with other top players, I'm not in that fight.

I agree, but Bane being 23 and Siakam being 27 makes this close.

Let's say Bane gets as much as 120 over 4 years as an RFA because the cap is going up. That's 6 years, 126M for ages 24-29, versus 69.5M for 2 years of Siakam, then hopefully resigning him as a UFA and if you do, it's a 30 year old Siakam at maybe 170/4 or something, for a total of 240 or so over the 6.

That's damn near double the price over 6 years and 24-29 Bane vs 29-34 Siakam

Likely Siakam is better for the first 2-3 years and Bane the last 2-3, and at half the price.

You're right that once we're at the level of guys like this small margins matter far, far more than with role players, but that's a lot of money.

Unless Bane has another gear in his game he has yet to hit, I much rather pay siakam 40M/yr than Bane 30M/yr

[zimpy27]

So fwiw I would have Siakam with more trade value than Bane. Obviously Bane is an incredible value on his contract, but I don't really think any team sees him as a future star so I don't see anyone giving up a premium asset for him. I could see a team potentially doing so for in exchange for Siakam.

I think at times we overrate the impact a contract has and underrate the value of top end talent.

Now as to where Siakam ranks in comparison with other top players, I'm not in that fight.

I agree, but Bane being 23 and Siakam being 27 makes this close.

Let's say Bane gets as much as 120 over 4 years as an RFA because the cap is going up. That's 6 years, 126M for ages 24-29, versus 69.5M for 2 years of Siakam, then hopefully resigning him as a UFA and if you do, it's a 30 year old Siakam at maybe 170/4 or something, for a total of 240 or so over the 6.

That's damn near double the price over 6 years and 24-29 Bane vs 29-34 Siakam

Likely Siakam is better for the first 2-3 years and Bane the last 2-3, and at half the price.

You're right that once we're at the level of guys like this small margins matter far, far more than with role players, but that's a lot of money.

Even if Bane doesn't improve from here I see him as the much better asset.

I think he will be an all-star and close to all NBA player in a couple years. It doesn't make sense for Grizzlies to trade him anyway.
Ja, Bane, Williams, Clarke, JJJ is going to be a dominant core with Tyus and Brooks as a strong bench.

[Ell Curry]

So fwiw I would have Siakam with more trade value than Bane. Obviously Bane is an incredible value on his contract, but I don't really think any team sees him as a future star so I don't see anyone giving up a premium asset for him. I could see a team potentially doing so for in exchange for Siakam.

I think at times we overrate the impact a contract has and underrate the value of top end talent.

Now as to where Siakam ranks in comparison with other top players, I'm not in that fight.

I agree, but Bane being 23 and Siakam being 27 makes this close.

Let's say Bane gets as much as 120 over 4 years as an RFA because the cap is going up. That's 6 years, 126M for ages 24-29, versus 69.5M for 2 years of Siakam, then hopefully resigning him as a UFA and if you do, it's a 30 year old Siakam at maybe 170/4 or something, for a total of 240 or so over the 6.

That's damn near double the price over 6 years and 24-29 Bane vs 29-34 Siakam

Likely Siakam is better for the first 2-3 years and Bane the last 2-3, and at half the price.

You're right that once we're at the level of guys like this small margins matter far, far more than with role players, but that's a lot of money.

Unless Bane has another gear in his game he has yet to hit, I much rather pay siakam 40M/yr than Bane 30M/yr

It's 21 vs 40, but that 19M is only a ton of value if you're a free agent destination I would think, which Toronto isn't, though it should be. But the big market teams vs the small market teams would view it real differently.

[Godaddycurse]

I agree, but Bane being 23 and Siakam being 27 makes this close.

Let's say Bane gets as much as 120 over 4 years as an RFA because the cap is going up. That's 6 years, 126M for ages 24-29, versus 69.5M for 2 years of Siakam, then hopefully resigning him as a UFA and if you do, it's a 30 year old Siakam at maybe 170/4 or something, for a total of 240 or so over the 6.

That's damn near double the price over 6 years and 24-29 Bane vs 29-34 Siakam

Likely Siakam is better for the first 2-3 years and Bane the last 2-3, and at half the price.

You're right that once we're at the level of guys like this small margins matter far, far more than with role players, but that's a lot of money.

Unless Bane has another gear in his game he has yet to hit, I much rather pay siakam 40M/yr than Bane 30M/yr

It's 21 vs 40, but that 19M is only a ton of value if you're a free agent destination I would think, which Toronto isn't, though it should be. But the big market teams vs the small market teams would view it real differently.

As you said its not like we can get a star with that money saved. The question is would you rather have Bane + another role player vs Siakam. I much rather have siakam

[VCfor3]

Unless Bane has another gear in his game he has yet to hit, I much rather pay siakam 40M/yr than Bane 30M/yr

It's 21 vs 40, but that 19M is only a ton of value if you're a free agent destination I would think, which Toronto isn't, though it should be. But the big market teams vs the small market teams would view it real differently.

As you said its not like we can get a star with that money saved. The question is would you rather have Bane + another role player vs Siakam. I much rather have siakam

From the Memphis perspective kinda in line with this thinking, would Memphis/you prefer Bane and Clarke (and maybe 5-8m in extra space) or Siakam?

For Memphis the Clarke/JJJ pairing is by far our best pairing and is crazy good on defense, but JJJ at center picks up fouls at a 40% increased rate. That may be a factor as to why Adams starts with JJJ so that he doesn't pick up quick fouls and then we go to the Clarke/JJJ pairing more in the second half. Ideally JJJ gets his fouls more controlled and Clarke becomes our starting PF but we will see. Clarke also would have broken our franchise eFG% this year except he fell a few attempts short of qualifying (he had 447 FGA). The current record is Clarke's rookie year. Clarke is also a slightly better rebounder than Siakam which you want next to JJJ. If we trade for Siakam then he would take over a lot of Clarke's minutes. Siakam being a threat from deep would help the spacing though losing our best 3pt threat in Bane would hurt it. Bane's playmaking this year was a huge development for us, but Siakam could replace a chunk of that. Siakam would provide a ton more shot creation than Clarke though. I really don't know which way I'd lean as a Memphis fan. I'm worried I'm too biased in terms of Bane/Clarke and that I don't know Siakam well enough to make a good judgement call but my gut says stick with Bane and Clarke.

Random opinions: Siakam has more value than Bane in a vacuum but specific teams may value Bane more. I don't think Memphis would do Bane and Williams for him since I think they are super high on Williams. Could see them adding to Bane if they decide they really want Siakam, but I think the extra would be less than Ziaire. Probably more like a first.

[Prospect Dong]

Yeah, I'm with VCfor3 on this one - I think teams narrowly take Siakam over Bane in a vacuum. Bane's wingspan make him smaller than people realise, and he's old for a second year guy. But he's also a second year guy playing as either 2a/2b on a fringe contender that actually doesn't lean all that hard on its franchise player. I think poor man's Klay Thompson is probably his ceiling, but this time last year I thought it was borderline starter. You've got to give Bane credit for being way ahead of schedule, as well as cheap.

But, the Griz are so young that I don't necessarily buy into the "they just need a second creator to take the pressure off Ja" stuff. Sure, if you hand me that guy I'd love to have him, but the future of the team looks like Ja (3rd year, 22), JJJ (4th year, 22), Bane (2nd year, 23), Brandon Clarke (third year, 25) and maybe Williams (rookie, 20). They're way ahead of schedule too, and while Bane might not be the guy who makes one more leap, it probably only takes one of those guys improving noticeably to bump them up to legit contention.

I don't think the fit for Siakam - a guy who needs the ball in his hands a lot and doesn't bring much outside shooting - is good enough to rebuild our timeline and potential to land him. That's the sort of decision that can look super dumb in a year's time, so I'm far from certain, but I think it's the right call. But I'm definitely not saying Siakam sucks...

[gambitx777]

Russ on a min or exception deal on the right team with enough shooting is gonna be deadly! He's still a good player. He's just not a well rounder player. He's an ok enough as a defender and he is still a great PG he just can't shoot. Which you can work around if you have enough money to work around that.

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[Scoot McGroot]

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A torn meniscus now, after the ACL kept him out all year?

[Godaddycurse]

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A torn meniscus now, after the ACL kept him out all year?

Ouch, won't be surprised if he misses a big chunk of next year too

[Scoot McGroot]

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A torn meniscus now, after the ACL kept him out all year?

Ouch, won't be surprised if he misses a big chunk of next year too

It’s a 6 week to 3 month type thing, allegedly, but definitely sets back his rehab/recovery from the ACL. I know his game was t predicated on athleticism, but we’re gonna find out just how little it needs to be.

[DoItALL9]

I'd take Desmond Bane over Pascal Siakim. PS has maxed out imo. He was the third guy on a title team 3 years ago, impressive.

I rather take the risk on Bane's upside unless I already have two guys better than Siakim

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[Ell Curry]

Unless Bane has another gear in his game he has yet to hit, I much rather pay siakam 40M/yr than Bane 30M/yr

It's 21 vs 40, but that 19M is only a ton of value if you're a free agent destination I would think, which Toronto isn't, though it should be. But the big market teams vs the small market teams would view it real differently.

As you said its not like we can get a star with that money saved. The question is would you rather have Bane + another role player vs Siakam. I much rather have siakam

Yeah, for the Raptors the question is can they make real cap space and get a player and for the Grizz it's "can we use our cap space this season (and maybe next? Ja is young).

[Ell Curry]

If take Desmond Bane over Pascal Siakim. PS has maxed out imo. He was the third guy in a title team 3 years ago, impressive.

I rather take the risk on Bane's upside unless I already have two guys better than Siakim

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He made a leap this year, is 28 and didn't play high level basketball until he was 20. I think he can definitely get better, unlike say Van Vleet who is probably maxed out. At gunpoint I'd say Siakam could improve more than OG, even if OG is more likely to improve as a younger and less complete player.

[Devilanche]

Would you rather have CP3 on his current contract or Russell Westbrook and James Harden on veteran minimum deals?

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If I have room under the tax without gutting my roster and I have a team good enough to compete for titles, I want Paul because he's playing far better than Harden right now.

That example feels silly though as that's not a realistic option. But would I rather have Chris Paul or Desmond Bane with a contending team, I definitely want Chris Paul. If I have nothing to win with, then obviously you take Bane and hope his next contract isn't prohibitive as you build your team.

This thread should be renamed the Desmond bane value thread at this rate .

Who would you rather ? Desmond bane or player x ?

[shangrila]

Would you rather have CP3 on his current contract or Russell Westbrook and James Harden on veteran minimum deals?

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If I have room under the tax without gutting my roster and I have a team good enough to compete for titles, I want Paul because he's playing far better than Harden right now.

That example feels silly though as that's not a realistic option. But would I rather have Chris Paul or Desmond Bane with a contending team, I definitely want Chris Paul. If I have nothing to win with, then obviously you take Bane and hope his next contract isn't prohibitive as you build your team.

This thread should be renamed the Desmond bane value thread at this rate .

Who would you rather ? Desmond bane or player x ?

The real question is do you take Desmond Bane or Desmond Bane?

[Troubadour]

If take Desmond Bane over Pascal Siakim. PS has maxed out imo. He was the third guy in a title team 3 years ago, impressive.

I rather take the risk on Bane's upside unless I already have two guys better than Siakim

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He was the second-leading scorer on that title team and then became All-NBA the next season. After the Tampa Tank, he went and had the best statistical season of his career. This summer will be his first full off-season to train since 2019. Don't really see what part of that story indicates that he's maxed out.

From 2020 to 2022, he increased his AST% from 16% to 23%. He didn't have a midrange game in 2020 and now he's one of the most frequent isolation scorers in the NBA. In the 2022 Playoffs, he was the fourth most efficient isolation scorer with the sixth most isolations per game.

This season, he also became one of the five most doubled players in the league and still posted the 3rd highest team points per possession on double team possessions. He's doubled more than Tatum, Curry, Durant, and Trae and he posts a higher team points per possession rate than all of them.

[Scoot McGroot]

Ooooh…interesting. I’ve never seen a guarantee trigger like this.

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[Mamba4Goat]

Is there a mix and match of the Mavs meh larger contracts (THJ, Bertans, Dinwiddie) for Tobias Harris type of trade to be had?