Giannis to Raptors

[MoneyTalks41890]

A move like this makes a lot of sense for the Raptors to find a direction, but not sure the resulting team is super competitive.

Poeltl
Giannis
Ingram
RJ
Quickley

in the east its probably good enough to make noise

For sure. That’s a team that hangs out in the top 4 of the East like Milwaukee has been doing.

In terms of Giannis destinations, it’s probably a pretty good one for a few reasons. And it’s not clear that there’s a team that could trade for him and offer immediate guarantee of title contention. I agree with others that staying in the East is pretty important for ease of contention.

Maybe the Knicks if they find a way to get some third teams involved since they don’t have picks.

I have Philly as a dark horse but lots of health questions.

Indiana could maybe do something interesting but it’s complicated and needs a third team.

Don’t see Giannis wanting to be in Boston tbh.

Nets would have to do too much work.

Miami doesn’t have enough.

[zimpy27]

I mean, the Raptors can try whatever they like. There's no chance whatever Giannis is traded there for like half a dozen reasons, most of which have been discussed.

Odd you couldn't provide a single one of them. This is a bad habit you have. You go into every thread, take a dump on it, but provide nothing constructive. No reasoning, no ways to improve it.

Please try contributing to discussion.

I mean, I provided several here
viewtopic.php?t=2460108&start=20#p118694770

But let me give the summary of reasons below.
1) Giannis probably doesn't want to leave the Bucks
2) If he does, he's going to be going to a contender, which the Raptors won't be if they could trade enough to get him. There'd be nothing left on the roster worth talking about after putting it into the trade.
3) other teams can offer better packages
4) Giannis, if he asks out, likely prefers to play for those other teams when factoring in location alone. Toronto is a nice city, but it's not a FA destination. It won't be able to compete with places like Brooklyn, and he already said his favourite place to go was Florida
5) The Raptors best young player, assuming they could keep him in the trade, is a horrible fit with Giannis

That's 5 pretty compelling reasons it's not happening. There is no way to fix the trade, because of the fundamental problem that Giannis is not motivated to leave his hometown team to play for another weak support cast. The teams are just not good trade partners.

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[zimpy27]

I hate to parrot on about it but you'll forgive me if I don't listen to people telling me not to keep pushing a trade idea because they don't like it. Arguing points is all we ask.

[cgf]

I think the Raptors need to keep Barnes, IQ, Dick, and RJ or BI to contend with Giannis. Can they put together a package around RJ or BI + Poeltl + their picks?

[Texas Chuck]

I think the Raptors need to keep Barnes, IQ, Dick, and RJ or BI to contend with Giannis. Can they put together a package around RJ or BI + Poeltl + their picks?

Would you trade Giannis for bad salary and some picks? I can't think they would say hold back your best pieces and we'll take RJ/Poeltl or BI instead. Feels awful for the Bucks.

[zimpy27]

I think the Raptors need to keep Barnes, IQ, Dick, and RJ or BI to contend with Giannis. Can they put together a package around RJ or BI + Poeltl + their picks?

Davis deal:
Lonzo/BI/Hart (no all stars but BI and Lonzo were coveted players expected to be elite starter level)
#4, 2 future FRPs


I think Barnes, RJ, #9 is equal to Lonzo, BI, Hart, #4
I think Raptors give 3-4 future FRPs also.

[zimpy27]

The recent Zion issues might make this a gold time to strike a deal.

Pels get Barnes

Bucks get Zion, RJ (duke guys) and their picks via NOP, plus #9, plus future picks

Raps get Giannis

[Arsenal]

I think the Raptors need to keep Barnes, IQ, Dick, and RJ or BI to contend with Giannis. Can they put together a package around RJ or BI + Poeltl + their picks?

There's no way they keep Barnes in a Giannis trade. Barnes' skillset overlaps with Giannis and he's the best piece MIL would want in a return.

Barnes MUST go in any Giannis trade. The only question is what else goes with him.

[jayjaysee]

I think you trade for Giannis if you can. Obviously, would love to leave the 2032 first out of it but think it’s all needed.

Would guess Milwaukee can get a good return for Barnes.. Or the opposite direction and trade some of the future Toronto picks for win now piece and hope Barnes develops..

[cgf]

I think the Raptors need to keep Barnes, IQ, Dick, and RJ or BI to contend with Giannis. Can they put together a package around RJ or BI + Poeltl + their picks?

Would you trade Giannis for bad salary and some picks? I can't think they would say hold back your best pieces and we'll take RJ/Poeltl or BI instead. Feels awful for the Bucks.

Depends on how much term he has left and how many places he wants to go. If he's in the last season before his opt out and only wants to go play for Masai, it becomes a question of how I can pivot before losing him for nothing...with no picks.

Plus I don't think RJ or Poeltl are bad salary...but we've argued RJ enough times not to repeat the exercise ...and even if I'm not an Ingram fan, this next 3 years are at a defensible rate.

But I was also asking about how their non IQ/Barnes kids looked / what their pick situation was because I stopped watching Toronto after I realized that IQ & RJ would be missing every other game to help the tank. So don't remember if they have any spare picks and don't know if they got someone like Agbaji to look like a player / which of their rookies flashed enough to be interesting.

I also feel like Giannis might wait another year, giving Toronto a better chance to intrigue him + build up the value of their pieces by winning 40-45 games before a tough first round exit like the PIstons & Magic this year.

[JMAC3]

This deal looks solid for Bucks, you get a building block piece in Barnes, plus a bunch of picks. Get a top 10 pick too. That is probably better than Houston offers.

Ingram and IQ are much better players than Bucks were going to put around Giannis this year. If they hold onto Dick and Walter too they have a few young guys that could develop or have trade value to bring in some more playoff pieces.

[cgf]

I think the Raptors need to keep Barnes, IQ, Dick, and RJ or BI to contend with Giannis. Can they put together a package around RJ or BI + Poeltl + their picks?

There's no way they keep Barnes in a Giannis trade. Barnes' skillset overlaps with Giannis and he's the best piece MIL would want in a return.

Barnes MUST go in any Giannis trade. The only question is what else goes with him.

Do they overlap? Barnes struggles at creating for himself and he's not as forceful on the glass as I'd like him too be, but he has shot the 3 well for stretches...especially when they're created for him, with the kind of FT numbers that suggest his mechanics are sound...and passes the ball well. So I think he'd fit very well in the front court next to Giannis like a better defending Portis.

Maybe I'm just not as high on him but I don't think he's a particularly great centerpiece, despite him being an exciting defender with playmaking chops, and see him in that same '2b/3a on a good team' tier that I see Ingram, Barrett, and Quickley; I just don't know that he has the tools to become a 1b/2a caliber scorer.

So if Giannis wants and is able to force his way to Toronto, I'm not sure which of those 2b/3a guys you get makes a meaningful difference unless one just fits better with a post-Giannis Bucks. So if Bropez dips + Dame is done as an elite player, I don't see why Barnes would be any better a fit than Ingram or Barrett

[jredsaz]

I think the Raptors need to keep Barnes, IQ, Dick, and RJ or BI to contend with Giannis. Can they put together a package around RJ or BI + Poeltl + their picks?

How do they keep Barnes? Why would they keep Barnes. He doesn’t fit with Giannis and he is the most valuable asset the Raps have.

[cgf]

I think the Raptors need to keep Barnes, IQ, Dick, and RJ or BI to contend with Giannis. Can they put together a package around RJ or BI + Poeltl + their picks?

How do they keep Barnes? Why would they keep Barnes. He doesn’t fit with Giannis and he is the most valuable asset the Raps have.

One post above you, in response to someone saying Barnes & Giannis overlapped and that he had to be in the trade, I wrote:

Do they overlap? Barnes struggles at creating for himself and he's not as forceful on the glass as I'd like him too be, but he has shot the 3 well for stretches...especially when they're created for him, with the kind of FT numbers that suggest his mechanics are sound...and passes the ball well. So I think he'd fit very well in the front court next to Giannis like a better defending Portis.

Maybe I'm just not as high on him but I don't think he's a particularly great centerpiece, despite him being an exciting defender with playmaking chops, and see him in that same '2b/3a on a good team' tier that I see Ingram, Barrett, and Quickley; I just don't know that he has the tools to become a 1b/2a caliber scorer.

So if Giannis wants and is able to force his way to Toronto, I'm not sure which of those 2b/3a guys you get makes a meaningful difference unless one just fits better with a post-Giannis Bucks. So if Bropez dips + Dame is done as an elite player, I don't see why Barnes would be any better a fit than Ingram or Barrett

[JonHeist]

If Giannis asked for a trade, it will likely to a short list of teams and I suspect Raptors, along with Spurs, Rockets, OKC will be on the list. But these other teams can come up with a better offer than the Raptors can and Nico doesn't work for the Bucks. So the chances Giannis end up with the Raptors is close to zero.

I disagree. Oh not that other teams can't make better offers. They absolutely can. But I believe that if Giannis comes to the Bucks and says trade him he is going to have a specific team in mind(not saying its the Raptpors, but it will be a team) and I think as long as that team puts together a real serious offer(Barnes + picks/swaps is serious enough even if not ideal) then I think the Bucks help Giannis gets where he wants.

I could be wrong and I know people are going to point out Dame to the Bucks and not the Heat so I'm freely conceding I could be very very wrong. But that's my read on it. That the Bucks will really try and work with him rather than just coldly taking the best offer without concern for what he wants.

you're very wrong

first about giannis requesting a specific team

and also about the owners being willing to go along with that

doing giannis a favor would cost the owners at least a billion dollars

[mlloyd10]

This deal looks solid for Bucks, you get a building block piece in Barnes, plus a bunch of picks. Get a top 10 pick too. That is probably better than Houston offers.

Ingram and IQ are much better players than Bucks were going to put around Giannis this year. If they hold onto Dick and Walter too they have a few young guys that could develop or have trade value to bring in some more playoff pieces.

You really think a guy like Barnes, #9 pick in a weak draft ( outside top 3) and so low end picks is good?

Barnes is basically Draymond Green

[HadAnEffectHere]

This is probably enough, but wow, this would be a really underwhelming team.

Giannis
Ingram
IQ
Poetl

Random collection of ehh young guys in Dick, Walter, Mogbo, Mitchell, and Agbaji with maybe one of them turning into a good player next year.

.... I don't know.

Do they win more than like 48 or 49 games and maybe get to the second round?

[mademan]

I see Harper and Amen as the top line targets for the Bucks, but it's also not clear to me if they get put on the table. Failing that, you can do much worse than Barnes + big pick package. It's basically in line with what AD went for, and while AD wasnt as good, he also was only 25

That said, i dont want to be the new Milwaukee. MVP , injury prone co-star, shallow depth with no assets to improve

[jbk1234]

The recent Zion issues might make this a gold time to strike a deal.

Pels get Barnes

Bucks get Zion, RJ (duke guys) and their picks via NOP, plus #9, plus future picks

Raps get Giannis

I'd be surprised if you got the Pelicans to agree with that evaluation of Barnes' trade value. It's one thing for the Bucks to consider him if Giannis walks in with a list of 3 teams and Barnes is the best centerpiece, it's quite another for the Pelicans who are under no pressure to execute such a trade. If I'm the Pelicans, I'm letting Bucks run with Barnes as their best players and seeing where their picks land.

[Texas Chuck]

If Giannis asked for a trade, it will likely to a short list of teams and I suspect Raptors, along with Spurs, Rockets, OKC will be on the list. But these other teams can come up with a better offer than the Raptors can and Nico doesn't work for the Bucks. So the chances Giannis end up with the Raptors is close to zero.

I disagree. Oh not that other teams can't make better offers. They absolutely can. But I believe that if Giannis comes to the Bucks and says trade him he is going to have a specific team in mind(not saying its the Raptpors, but it will be a team) and I think as long as that team puts together a real serious offer(Barnes + picks/swaps is serious enough even if not ideal) then I think the Bucks help Giannis gets where he wants.

I could be wrong and I know people are going to point out Dame to the Bucks and not the Heat so I'm freely conceding I could be very very wrong. But that's my read on it. That the Bucks will really try and work with him rather than just coldly taking the best offer without concern for what he wants.

you're very wrong

first about giannis requesting a specific team

and also about the owners being willing to go along with that

doing giannis a favor would cost the owners at least a billion dollars

I could be wrong
How do you know with such certainty what Giannis might do in the future?
How do you know the Bucks governor wouldn't? I'm not saying you are wrong and I am right, but how do you know this with such certainty?
And finally I'm going to need to see your math. That's a bold statement. I'd love to see you back it up with some hard numbers.

I can only read it how I read it. But openly admit I could be way off. You have a lot of absolutes.