Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans

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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#61 » by nykballa2k4 » Tue Jun 17, 2025 11:48 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:[
It does not cost that much to move up one spot in the mid-lottery, especially when many believe the players from 3-10 in this draft are all pretty comparable.


Not speaking to the offer(didn't even look at it), but strong disagree that actual NBA front offices have players 3-10 written on their draft board with a big circle around them with a note, basically all the same.

This is what draft pundits do because they aren't in the business of evaluating draft talent, they are in the business of looking right so they can tout it next year so you consume their content, then the aggregators regurgitate the work of just two or three people putting together boards and we get this trope every single year.

The reason the draft touts use a tier system is so when they have players projected at 6 who end up at 12 and players at 14 who end up at 8, instead of acknowledging how wrong they were, they use this as more evidence they were right, by claiming later, see I told you all these players were on the same tier...

Don't fall for it. Every single front office has these players listed in a clear order and I guarantee not one of them think as highly of their 10th rated guy as their 3rd or even close.

I will take it a step farther (further?)

We (media, consumers of media) look at players as some numerical draft value.
Flagg? 97
Harper/Bailey? 89
etc

To some extent, each team has their board with that sort of NBA 2K value, but the real people are looking at actual players, fit, etc.
A kid who is an athletic freak, some scoring ability, but a ft% in the 60's so you know he's a project there is probably not who you pick to play next to a Thompson brother.

I don't think the Hornets take Fears (assuming they are not trading Ball) even if he might be BPA because they would not be able to develop him to reach his potential.

The concept of range is fair, because your sources might have teams picking #5 and #9 both interested in player X (let's say Kon), but also that teams 6-8 all are largely disinterested in him. Therefore you now have a range. It's not lazy, hedging, or bad intel.

OTOH, the way that punditry works is a giant circle jerk. All the media ya-hoos say who their list is (picture comic book guy) and if a pick is made out of the order of the list it's a bad pick. Then after the draft, they grade actual GM's who have money/careers at risk, vs their 3rd party accounts. "oh they really reached for X"
Reached says who? For all you know there was another team ready to take him the very next pick, maybe a rival GM who they knew had interest, but didn't know was willing to trade up, right there hoping to get the guy.

But it's a show and a spectacle, and we are all going to ride the hype train in just a bit lol so there's that.
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#62 » by SkyHook » Tue Jun 17, 2025 11:57 pm

Devilanche wrote:
Wizop wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:The reason the draft touts use a tier system


I think the tier system has a purpose in both football and basketball. It answers the BPA versus need decision. You take a player who plays the position you need as long as he is in the top tier of players on the board at your pick.

The draft is basically a pretty long interview session and there’s sometimes not that clear cut candidate who is above and way better than the rest .

Just a matter of fit. I might value candidate A who offers more experience and has been doing this exact role for 4-5 years but my counterpart might prefer candidate B who is an enthusiastic go getter who’s willing to do more and have a great learning mindset whatever that might means.

Another counterpart could prefer candidate C who just looks the best while the last manager who was roped in as an interviewer just wants a warm body in to get this whole thing done and over with. It’s just some minor role in the department and we already have our star contributor and other contributors as well. Just to fill up headcount availability.


This. Every team is going to have their own big board; there will be 30 different versions guaranteed. Each team will have strong and weak preferences between each of the players slotted on their lists. Those strong/weak preferences will help determine their appetite for moving up or down vs the compensation exchanged.
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#63 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 18, 2025 12:36 am

mg wrote:It won't be official until the Pacers are finished in the playoffs.


Pacers have announced it so it is official. Because no players were involved, it could be made now.
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#64 » by mg » Wed Jun 18, 2025 12:37 am

Wizop wrote:
mg wrote:It won't be official until the Pacers are finished in the playoffs.


Pacers have announced it so it is official. Because no players were involved, it could be made now.


Got it.
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#65 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 18, 2025 12:58 am

Wizop wrote:
mg wrote:It won't be official until the Pacers are finished in the playoffs.


Pacers have announced it so it is official. Because no players were involved, it could be made now.


I won't be shocked if the Pacers and Pelicans make another trade after the Finals. And to be clear it isn't official because they announced it; we know it's official because they wouldn't have made an announcement if it were not.
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#66 » by Troubadour » Wed Jun 18, 2025 2:15 am

Tripod wrote:
Troubadour wrote:Pacers basically traded the 17th pick and 29th pick in 2024, the 23rd pick in 2025 and Bruce Brown for Pascal Siakam

Robbery

And the Raps turned those picks into:

A 22+ pt Ingram
A 40% 3+D Ochai
A rookie Walter who looks like he will be a starter in the next few years

Raps made out quite ok


Ingram: Will he appear in enough games to make that worthwhile? Can he play winning basketball? He's played >60 games in a season four times in nine seasons.

Agbaji: Can't shoot on the move or from above the break. Not really certain he's there yet.

Walter: Starter for the Raptors? Toronto seems certain about Ingram and Barnes at the 3/4 and flipping Barrett and/or Quickley for a star who would presumably occupy the third wing spot in the starting lineup. Don't think we've seen anything from Walter to warrant crowing about how the Raptors made out well in this trade.

But yes, those three pieces are the core of the Pascal Siakam trade tree. Let's hope it works out for them.
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#67 » by DowJones » Wed Jun 18, 2025 10:13 pm

Pels should have waited until after the Finals. Haliburton will likely play game 6 on a bad calf. You saw how that impacted Durant.
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#68 » by Wizop » Wed Jun 18, 2025 10:37 pm

DowJones wrote:Pels should have waited until after the Finals. Haliburton will likely play game 6 on a bad calf. You saw how that impacted Durant.


What would the Pels gain by waiting?
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#69 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Jun 18, 2025 11:18 pm

Wizop wrote:
DowJones wrote:Pels should have waited until after the Finals. Haliburton will likely play game 6 on a bad calf. You saw how that impacted Durant.


What would the Pels gain by waiting?


He's implying that Haliburton is going to suffer a far more serious injury because it once happened to this other guy and so the Pels should hold the 26 pick because the Pacers will play a season without Hali.

Stretchhhhhhhhhhhh
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#70 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Jun 19, 2025 4:41 am

Texas Chuck wrote:for their own 26 1st back.

So Chuck has to retire his trope about teams not trading for their own picks back....Here is another team doing it.



Pacers tanking in 2026!!! :lol:


No not really. Looks like a 2025-26 cost cutting move to me. They need to sign Turner and they don't want to pay tax. They'll still probably have to make a move to cut some salary.
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#71 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Jun 19, 2025 4:43 am

hsfolk wrote:is Mojave King just a throw in player? I couldn't find anything about him other than what's listed on his wikipedia page


The Pacers picked him 2023 but he never played, might have did some reps with the Mad Ants but IDK? :lol:
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#72 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Jun 19, 2025 4:46 am

kobe_vs_jordan wrote:Don't understand it for the Pels at all , Not guarantee to get your guy at 23. Pacers pick top 4 protected has much better upside potential. Never know what can happen . Mavs went from the finals to landing cooper flag next season.


Yeah but that was Dallas getting the #1 over all. That will never happen to the Pacers.
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#73 » by kobe_vs_jordan » Thu Jun 19, 2025 2:35 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:
kobe_vs_jordan wrote:Don't understand it for the Pels at all , Not guarantee to get your guy at 23. Pacers pick top 4 protected has much better upside potential. Never know what can happen . Mavs went from the finals to landing cooper flag next season.


Yeah but that was Dallas getting the #1 over all. That will never happen to the Pacers.

True but even getting a top 15 pick some how would be a blessing. Especially with lottery odds.

Pelicans also deferred pick 17 last year from the lakers for upside variance. Didn’t work out but Seems odd they switch their mindset to locking in pick 23.

This type of deal makes sense on draft night for me. Maybe you get the guy you want then
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#74 » by DowJones » Thu Jun 19, 2025 3:07 pm

Wizop wrote:
DowJones wrote:Pels should have waited until after the Finals. Haliburton will likely play game 6 on a bad calf. You saw how that impacted Durant.


What would the Pels gain by waiting?


The value of that pick isn’t going to drop between now and the end of the NBA Finals. While it’s unlikely the value will increase, there is still a non-zero chance it could. New Orleans should have waited until after the Finals to fully assess the pick’s value before trading it.
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#75 » by Wizop » Thu Jun 19, 2025 4:01 pm

DowJones wrote:
Wizop wrote:
DowJones wrote:Pels should have waited until after the Finals. Haliburton will likely play game 6 on a bad calf. You saw how that impacted Durant.


What would the Pels gain by waiting?


The value of that pick isn’t going to drop between now and the end of the NBA Finals. While it’s unlikely the value will increase, there is still a non-zero chance it could. New Orleans should have waited until after the Finals to fully assess the pick’s value before trading it.


Unless there are cap or tax considerations, a pick in one year has a value equal to a somewhat higher pick the next year. The Pacers did have tax consideration this year plus Stepien considerations gave extra value to their 2026 pick for them and only them.

I understand that Haliburton's injury could affect next year but that is true of every player. For example, Paul George was injured playing for Team USA in the summer. I assume the Pelicans made the deal knowing they liked players that should be there at 23 or that bundling it with the 7 made a trade up possible.
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#76 » by DowJones » Mon Jun 23, 2025 5:40 pm

Wizop wrote:
DowJones wrote:
Wizop wrote:
What would the Pels gain by waiting?


The value of that pick isn’t going to drop between now and the end of the NBA Finals. While it’s unlikely the value will increase, there is still a non-zero chance it could. New Orleans should have waited until after the Finals to fully assess the pick’s value before trading it.


Unless there are cap or tax considerations, a pick in one year has a value equal to a somewhat higher pick the next year. The Pacers did have tax consideration this year plus Stepien considerations gave extra value to their 2026 pick for them and only them.

I understand that Haliburton's injury could affect next year but that is true of every player. For example, Paul George was injured playing for Team USA in the summer. I assume the Pelicans made the deal knowing they liked players that should be there at 23 or that bundling it with the 7 made a trade up possible.


It was never about Haliburton’s calf injury. The issue was Halliburton playing on the calf injury, and the associated risk that comes with it. Good on Indiana for making the trade.
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#77 » by esvl » Mon Jun 23, 2025 5:51 pm

esvl wrote:Was Ind 1st 26 protected? If not, the Pels FO made a strange move

Exactly what happened. NOLA should fire their stupid GM effective inmidiately.
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#78 » by hugepatsfan » Mon Jun 23, 2025 5:56 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Wizop wrote:
DowJones wrote:Pels should have waited until after the Finals. Haliburton will likely play game 6 on a bad calf. You saw how that impacted Durant.


What would the Pels gain by waiting?


He's implying that Haliburton is going to suffer a far more serious injury because it once happened to this other guy and so the Pels should hold the 26 pick because the Pacers will play a season without Hali.

Stretchhhhhhhhhhhh


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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#79 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Jun 23, 2025 5:59 pm

esvl wrote:
esvl wrote:Was Ind 1st 26 protected? If not, the Pels FO made a strange move

Exactly what happened. NOLA should fire their stupid GM effective inmidiately.



NO owned it but Indy had top 4 protections
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Re: Official [Shams] Pacers trade #23 to New Orleans 

Post#80 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Jun 23, 2025 6:40 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
Wizop wrote:
What would the Pels gain by waiting?


He's implying that Haliburton is going to suffer a far more serious injury because it once happened to this other guy and so the Pels should hold the 26 pick because the Pacers will play a season without Hali.

Stretchhhhhhhhhhhh


Awkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkward


:lol:

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