Mavericks Players

[ddavmor]

Reaves for Gafford is a beneficial trade for both teams and value neutral. But that isn't what the Lakers want, they want another lopsided trade.

[Texas Chuck]

Reaves for Gafford is a beneficial trade for both teams and value neutral. But that isn't what the Lakers want, they want another lopsided trade.

It's not. It heavily favors Dallas. And yes, every team wants a lopsided trade if they can find a team willing to make it. Dallas got Luka for just one additional protected first. Then LA got him for way cheaper than if Dallas had let every team bid. Dallas doesn't owe Atlanta an apology nor do the Lakers owe Dallas one.

That's not the insult you think it is...

[jbk1234]

Reaves for Gafford is a beneficial trade for both teams and value neutral. But that isn't what the Lakers want, they want another lopsided trade.

It's not. It heavily favors Dallas. And yes, every team wants a lopsided trade if they can find a team willing to make it. Dallas got Luka for just one additional protected first. Then LA got him for way cheaper than if Dallas had let every team bid. Dallas doesn't owe Atlanta an apology nor do the Lakers owe Dallas one.

That's not the insult you think it is...

I think Reaves will get $30M+ on the open market next summer, but I'm a little skeptical the line of teams eager to give it him will be very long. His best attribute is his size, as it gives him the ability to see over defenders, but it doesn't translate on the defensive end. Hayward was a better defender pre-injury, and post injury he ended up having to get his money by signing with Hornets.

[babyjax13]

Reaves for Gafford is a beneficial trade for both teams and value neutral. But that isn't what the Lakers want, they want another lopsided trade.

It's not. It heavily favors Dallas. And yes, every team wants a lopsided trade if they can find a team willing to make it. Dallas got Luka for just one additional protected first. Then LA got him for way cheaper than if Dallas had let every team bid. Dallas doesn't owe Atlanta an apology nor do the Lakers owe Dallas one.

That's not the insult you think it is...

I think Reaves will get $30M+ on the open market next summer, but I'm a little skeptical the line of teams eager to give it him will be very long. His best attribute is his size, as it gives him the ability to see over defenders, but it doesn't translate on the defensive end. Hayward was a better defender pre-injury, and post injury he ended up having to get his money by signing with Hornets.

Hayward was better in every way pre-injury. In 16-17 he had taken a major step forward, and his playoffs were incredible.

[Golabki]

Kornet's got a different physical profile than Gafford (bigger, but much less athletic). But both guys are VERY efficient finishers if someone else is creating a dunk for them, but not very good at anything else (although Kornet is actually more versatile in terms of ball skills). And both are okay rim protectors, but not really able to do anything else on defense. I think both guys are about the same. If they're starting then you need to upgrade to be a serious team, but if he's a backup that you can DPCD against certain opponents, they're awesome.

Gafford definitely has more to his offensive game than catching lobs. Now he can't shoot from any distance and he's not a passer. But he's got a complete scoring game in the paint. There is a reason he is among FG% leaders every year and its not just that he only dunks.

Kornet shoots 54% for his career. Gafford 71%. Massive difference.
Gafford has 50% higher volume per 100. Massive difference.
Gafford is the stronger offensive rebounder 12% to 10%
FTR more than twice as high for Gafford
Kornet does have the asst% edge at a bit over 10% while Gafford is a bit under 8%

I think in terms of offensive impact they are not particularly close or similar. I think its a pretty clear edge to Gafford. Not just in the production but in the space it creates as teams have to sag off the corners to hedge the rim against him in ways they don't against Kornet.

Defensive impact is more similar. Though Gafford is far more mobile so while the Kornet 3-pt challenge is great fun, Gafford is actually able to more credible close out or switch. His less than stellar instincts though can sometimes make that a liability over Kornet who understands his own limitations and sticks to his strengths mitigating some of the negative plays Gafford has through misguided hustle and effort.

I don't see much argument that Gafford isn't a meaningfully better player at this point. On offense its clear via eye test or metrics. And I think we both agree that defensively both guys aren't terrible, but they aren't good enough to be a good team's defensive anchor.

You can’t really judge Kornet’s career FG% because early on he was trying to be a 3-point specialist. That clearly didn’t work, and he cut it out of his game three years ago. Since then, he’s been at 68% FG%, driven by solid finishing around the basket — very similar to Gafford. That early perimeter focus also hurt his rebounding numbers. I’d say Kornet and Gafford are pretty similar there: fine for a rotation center, not elite. Some of the scoring volume difference comes down to role, though I do agree Gafford is a significantly better scorer. Defensively, I don’t see Gafford as much better on close-outs, and while he may be better on switches, both are weak enough there that you can’t realistically build switching into your scheme with either on the floor.

All that said, my point isn’t that Kornet is underrated so much as that both are non-shooting play finishers on offense, and decent rim-protectors without a lot of versatility on defense. While I agree Gafford is probably better, it's a player type where (1) the lack of versatility limits how you can use them, and (2) the replacement level is high — plenty of teams have a guy who can give you ~80% of what Gafford provides at half the cost.

That’s why I compared him to Monk. Monk is an undersized, defensively limited scoring guard who isn’t good enough to be the focal point of an efficient offense. He’s still valuable and better than many in that mold, but like the non-shooting rim-protecting center, it’s a player type that (A) lacks versatility and (B) has high replacement value.

[chrbal]

Stein reporting Mavs are increasing their efforts to clear the roster spot for Exum with an emphasis on trading OMax Prosper.

It’ll be interesting to see if there’s any kind of interest in him. But it’s probably Prosper/2nd to some lottery team for a top 55 protected 2nd. So maybe just what team wants a 2nd round pick or two

[ddavmor]

Imo Reaves is overrated as much as you believe that Gafford is. The fact is there are plenty of players at the 2 that give you what Reaves does. With him expecting to get overpaid, are the Lakers going to let him walk. I would prefer to keep Gafford, but in both cases it's a matter of need. The trade is equal value because of the amount Reaves is going to cost. And by the way, Mavs did not get back enough for Luka.

[SlimShady83]

I will post thread later today with poll

[Devilanche]

Imo Reaves is overrated as much as you believe that Gafford is. The fact is there are plenty of players at the 2 that give you what Reaves does. With him expecting to get overpaid, are the Lakers going to let him walk. I would prefer to keep Gafford, but in both cases it's a matter of need. The trade is equal value because of the amount Reaves is going to cost. And by the way, Mavs did not get back enough for Luka.

I think reaves is more overrated than Gafford is.

But I still think reaves is still the more valuable player of the 2. Probably a single second round pick difference in value ?

[Vae Victus]

As a Laker fan the hope for next offseason is to either lure an impact max FA using cap space or absorb outright an impact max level disgruntled with his old team running mate for Luka while trading out future picks. Then while keeping AR15 on his 22mil cap hold, find out his market isn’t all that strong and re-sign him to a 4yr/100mil deal with 4th year player option to be the 3rd guy to Luka + max contract running mate. Then fill out the roster with exceptions and ring chaser mins.

Another scenario is that Austin plays real well and wants big money but the teams with big money available don’t view Austin is a true max contract player. However a team with a disgruntled star player wants out and they’re willing to pay Austin near max money in a S&T + all the picks. Essentially the most important thing is that the best running mate for Luka needs to be secured by any means necessary. Austin is totally expendable if needed.

[jbk1234]

I will post thread later today with poll

In a vacuum, Reaves has more value, but Gafford is probably the best center he returns this season. The Bucks are a wild card if there's a mid season blow up.

[Texas Chuck]

Stein reporting Mavs are increasing their efforts to clear the roster spot for Exum with an emphasis on trading OMax Prosper.

It’ll be interesting to see if there’s any kind of interest in him. But it’s probably Prosper/2nd to some lottery team for a top 55 protected 2nd. So maybe just what team wants a 2nd round pick or two

Oh I expect Dallas to have to send cash at a minimum, but probably a 2nd. Of course at that point I wish they'd trade Dwight Powell instead. But yeah Dallas is giving not getting in a Prosper trade.

[SlimShady83]

Reaves for Gafford I would do this

Yeah, but Jeanie wouldn't. Out of curiosity, does she still have veto rights after the sale?

On lunch break it's also my Friday yay day almost over.

As for your question that's not my area lol

[SlimShady83]

I will post thread later today with poll

In a vacuum, Reaves has more value, but Gafford is probably the best center he returns this season. The Bucks are a wild card if there's a mid season blow up.

Why the Bucks just curious? They just got Turner adding Gafford trade won't work.

[jbk1234]

I will post thread later today with poll

In a vacuum, Reaves has more value, but Gafford is probably the best center he returns this season. The Bucks are a wild card if there's a mid season blow up.

Why the Bucks just curious? They just got Turner adding Gafford trade won't work.

I meant Turner to the Lakers if the Bucks end up pulling the trigger on a Giannis trade.

[Devilanche]

Stein reporting Mavs are increasing their efforts to clear the roster spot for Exum with an emphasis on trading OMax Prosper.

It’ll be interesting to see if there’s any kind of interest in him. But it’s probably Prosper/2nd to some lottery team for a top 55 protected 2nd. So maybe just what team wants a 2nd round pick or two

Oh I expect Dallas to have to send cash at a minimum, but probably a 2nd. Of course at that point I wish they'd trade Dwight Powell instead. But yeah Dallas is giving not getting in a Prosper trade.

Pretty sure he will retire a mavs

[Devilanche]

I will post thread later today with poll

In a vacuum, Reaves has more value, but Gafford is probably the best center he returns this season. The Bucks are a wild card if there's a mid season blow up.

Why the Bucks just curious? They just got Turner adding Gafford trade won't work.

I think he’s hoping Turner become available in a mid season blow up for the bucks .

[SlimShady83]

I meant Turner to the Lakers if the Bucks end up pulling the trigger on a Giannis trade.

Ahh I got you, I doubt Bucks do it

[jbk1234]

In a vacuum, Reaves has more value, but Gafford is probably the best center he returns this season. The Bucks are a wild card if there's a mid season blow up.

Why the Bucks just curious? They just got Turner adding Gafford trade won't work.

I think he’s hoping Turner become available in a mid season blow up for the bucks .

I'm not hoping for that, but the Bucks have to improve their backcourt and their options for doing so aren't that attractive with Giannis as a flight risk.

[toooskies]

Why the Bucks just curious? They just got Turner adding Gafford trade won't work.

I think he’s hoping Turner become available in a mid season blow up for the bucks .

I'm not hoping for that, but the Bucks have to improve their backcourt and their options for doing so aren't that attractive with Giannis as a flight risk.

I could see the Bucks turning Kuzma into Simons.