Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0

[Prospect Dong]

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Full circle!

[Prospect Dong]

Matthews is better than Green.

Not sure Matthews is better than Green, but there is plenty of evidence that they're about equal value. Last year, Green had a better regular season, while Matthews had a better playoffs.

(And as has been pointed out in other threads, Green has struggled in at least his last 4 playoff appearances, shooting 34%, 25%, 33%, and 34% from 3 in those years.)

2019-20 stats:

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Danny+Green&player_id1_select=Danny+Green&player_id1=greenda02&idx=bbr__players&p1yrfrom=2020&player_id2_hint=Wesley+Matthews&player_id2_select=Wesley+Matthews&player_id2=matthwe02&idx=bbr__players&p2yrfrom=2020

Highlights:

Regular Season 3p %: Matthews 36.4%, Green 36.7%
Regular Season OBPM/DBPM/BPM: Matthews -2.6/.7/-1.8, Green -1.5, .5, 1.1
Regular Season TS%: Matthews .55, Green .55

Playoffs 3p%: Matthews 39.5%, Green 33.9%
Playoffs OBPM/DBPM/BPM: Matthews -1.6/1.7/.2, Green -1.2/.5/-.7
Playoffs TS%: Matthews .596, Green .473

I think it's fair to say that in swapping Green for Matthews, the Lakers got essentially the same player, but saved $11.5mil.

OTOH, Wes has never been in a situation where fans send his family death threats if he has a bad game. So maybe he gets rattled.

Green at his peak was better than Matthews, but he has a lot of mileage on him. He played like ass in the playoffs. Matthews is a big step above the level that Green was at in the playoffs. Better shooter and better at defending guards, about equal at defending wings like Butler.

I don't know that you can really give Matthews the edge in functional mileage. He's older and has a worse injury history. And I feel like people are placing a lot of weight on a very small sample in the playoffs for Matthews. It's entirely possible that Green was used-up, particularly by the end of a long, grueling playoff run. But the apparent improvements in Matthew's play in the playoffs are much more likely to be random/opponent effects than a reproducible extra playoff gear.

[codydaze]

Do you not have capspace? I thought the whole deal with the Kings looking to operate over the cap was because of the Bogdanovic hold. With that gone and no salary received in return, you should have room.

Or am I completely wrong, not for the first time?

Yeah, I think we have something like 7 million in cap space and the full MLE and BAE. At this point our rotation is pretty much set so the space should allow us to eat some money at the deadline if we move off of a contract like Joseph/Hield/Barnes.

You can't have capspace and the full MLE. Either you operate under the cap and have space plus the "room" MLE, or you operate over the cap and have no space but get the "full" MLE. Not sure if that's what you meant.

Yes, you're right. Room exception is what I meant since we are under the cap. I doubt we use our exceptions though. We probably pick up another minimum contract and call it a day.

[Resistance]

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We have more space than the minimum, pretty sure we still have our full MLE available.

Do you not have capspace? I thought the whole deal with the Kings looking to operate over the cap was because of the Bogdanovic hold. With that gone and no salary received in return, you should have room.

Or am I completely wrong, not for the first time?

Yeah, I think we have something like 7 million in cap space and the full MLE and BAE. At this point our rotation is pretty much set so the space should allow us to eat some money at the deadline if we move off of a contract like Joseph/Hield/Barnes.

At the moment, something like this...


Buddy Hield...........$24,431,818
Harrison Barnes.......$22,215,909
Cory Joseph...........$12,600,000
Marvin Bagley III........$8,963,640
De'Aaron Fox............$8,099,627
Nemanja Bjelica........$7,150,000
Jabari Parker............$6,500,000
Richaun Holmes.........$5,005,350
Justin James.............$1,517,981
Halliburton...............$3,831,840
Whiteside.................$1,620,564

Min Salary...................$898,310
----------------------------------------------
..........................$102,835,039


With a salary cap of $109.140 million, there is about $6.3 million in cap space and then a Room Exception.

[Scoot McGroot]

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Indy’s max offer was allegedly Turner, Lamb, and a 1st*, or Turner/McDermott, but Ainge thought he could finagle a second starter out of it and was surprised by Charlotte jumping in.


* JMichael reported specifically Turner, rotation player and a 1st, and I’m putting this together from the other Indy reporting as well that the standing offer was Myles/Doug. Also, reports that Simon was willing to pay the tax for Hayward.

[gflem]

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Full circle!

Nothing to add, just really enjoyed the Mcfly quote!

[mademan]

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Indy’s max offer was allegedly Turner, Lamb, and a 1st*, or Turner/McDermott, but Ainge thought he could finagle a second starter out of it and was surprised by Charlotte jumping in.


* JMichael reported specifically Turner, rotation player and a 1st, and I’m putting this together from the other Indy reporting as well that the standing offer was Myles/Doug. Also, reports that Simon was willing to pay the tax for Hayward.

Ainge really wont make a trade he doesnt completely win, lol.

[babyjax13]

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Indy’s max offer was allegedly Turner, Lamb, and a 1st*, or Turner/McDermott, but Ainge thought he could finagle a second starter out of it and was surprised by Charlotte jumping in.


* JMichael reported specifically Turner, rotation player and a 1st, and I’m putting this together from the other Indy reporting as well that the standing offer was Myles/Doug. Also, reports that Simon was willing to pay the tax for Hayward.

Every year Ainge does something absolutely obnoxious. Honestly he should have taken this, it's way too much.

[Scoot McGroot]

Do you not have capspace? I thought the whole deal with the Kings looking to operate over the cap was because of the Bogdanovic hold. With that gone and no salary received in return, you should have room.

Or am I completely wrong, not for the first time?

Yeah, I think we have something like 7 million in cap space and the full MLE and BAE. At this point our rotation is pretty much set so the space should allow us to eat some money at the deadline if we move off of a contract like Joseph/Hield/Barnes.

At the moment, something like this...


Buddy Hield...........$24,431,818
Harrison Barnes.......$22,215,909
Cory Joseph...........$12,600,000
Marvin Bagley III........$8,963,640
De'Aaron Fox............$8,099,627
Nemanja Bjelica........$7,150,000
Jabari Parker............$6,500,000
Richaun Holmes.........$5,005,350
Justin James.............$1,517,981
Halliburton...............$3,831,840
Whiteside.................$1,620,564

Min Salary...................$898,310
----------------------------------------------
..........................$102,835,039


With a salary cap of $109.140 million, there is about $6.3 million in cap space and then a Room Exception.

Could still operate as over the cap with no cap space and the full MLE and BAE if they so choose, too.

[Scoot McGroot]

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?s=21

Indy’s max offer was allegedly Turner, Lamb, and a 1st*, or Turner/McDermott, but Ainge thought he could finagle a second starter out of it and was surprised by Charlotte jumping in.


* JMichael reported specifically Turner, rotation player and a 1st, and I’m putting this together from the other Indy reporting as well that the standing offer was Myles/Doug. Also, reports that Simon was willing to pay the tax for Hayward.

Hell, it might have even been Turner/McDermott/1st.

[Buzzard]

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Indy’s max offer was allegedly Turner, Lamb, and a 1st*, or Turner/McDermott, but Ainge thought he could finagle a second starter out of it and was surprised by Charlotte jumping in.


* JMichael reported specifically Turner, rotation player and a 1st, and I’m putting this together from the other Indy reporting as well that the standing offer was Myles/Doug. Also, reports that Simon was willing to pay the tax for Hayward.

I can't believe Ainge did not take Turner while he could. I don't care if he is a little overpaid in some peoples opinions. Defensive bigs who can shoot a free throw and a three are hard to get.

[jbk1234]

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Indy’s max offer was allegedly Turner, Lamb, and a 1st*, or Turner/McDermott, but Ainge thought he could finagle a second starter out of it and was surprised by Charlotte jumping in.


* JMichael reported specifically Turner, rotation player and a 1st, and I’m putting this together from the other Indy reporting as well that the standing offer was Myles/Doug. Also, reports that Simon was willing to pay the tax for Hayward.

I can't believe Ainge did not take Turner while he could. I don't care if he is a little overpaid in some peoples opinions. Defensive bigs who can shoot a free throw and a three are hard to get.

There's an old business saying about greed: pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[Resistance]

Yeah, I think we have something like 7 million in cap space and the full MLE and BAE. At this point our rotation is pretty much set so the space should allow us to eat some money at the deadline if we move off of a contract like Joseph/Hield/Barnes.

At the moment, something like this...


Buddy Hield...........$24,431,818
Harrison Barnes.......$22,215,909
Cory Joseph...........$12,600,000
Marvin Bagley III........$8,963,640
De'Aaron Fox............$8,099,627
Nemanja Bjelica........$7,150,000
Jabari Parker............$6,500,000
Richaun Holmes.........$5,005,350
Justin James.............$1,517,981
Halliburton...............$3,831,840
Whiteside.................$1,620,564

Min Salary...................$898,310
----------------------------------------------
..........................$102,835,039


With a salary cap of $109.140 million, there is about $6.3 million in cap space and then a Room Exception.

Could still operate as over the cap with no cap space and the full MLE and BAE if they so choose, too.

Yes and I have been experimenting with Sacramento trades today as both a cap space team and as an over the cap team in taking salary from Charlotte and generating a TPE for Boston.

When saw the mention of Sacramento and remaining cap space, I already had most of the numbers readily available. Stuck in Whiteside and a two year veteran minimum salary then did a headcount to see how many minimum salary cap holds were needed to bring the roster to 12.

[Resistance]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Indy’s max offer was allegedly Turner, Lamb, and a 1st*, or Turner/McDermott, but Ainge thought he could finagle a second starter out of it and was surprised by Charlotte jumping in.


* JMichael reported specifically Turner, rotation player and a 1st, and I’m putting this together from the other Indy reporting as well that the standing offer was Myles/Doug. Also, reports that Simon was willing to pay the tax for Hayward.

So now Boston might be trying to get a TPE from a Hayward trade. Other than a few extra seconds, the Piggy Bank is empty on draft picks from other teams.

[Scoot McGroot]

At the moment, something like this...


Buddy Hield...........$24,431,818
Harrison Barnes.......$22,215,909
Cory Joseph...........$12,600,000
Marvin Bagley III........$8,963,640
De'Aaron Fox............$8,099,627
Nemanja Bjelica........$7,150,000
Jabari Parker............$6,500,000
Richaun Holmes.........$5,005,350
Justin James.............$1,517,981
Halliburton...............$3,831,840
Whiteside.................$1,620,564

Min Salary...................$898,310
----------------------------------------------
..........................$102,835,039


With a salary cap of $109.140 million, there is about $6.3 million in cap space and then a Room Exception.

Could still operate as over the cap with no cap space and the full MLE and BAE if they so choose, too.

Yes and I have been experimenting with Sacramento trades today as both a cap space team and as an over the cap team in taking salary from Charlotte and generating a TPE for Boston.

When saw the mention of Sacramento and remaining cap space, I already had most of the numbers readily available. Stuck in Whiteside and a two year veteran minimum salary then did a headcount to see how many minimum salary cap holds were needed to bring the roster to 12.

I always appreciate the work you put into your posts. Thanks!

[giannis and 1]

Not sure Matthews is better than Green, but there is plenty of evidence that they're about equal value. Last year, Green had a better regular season, while Matthews had a better playoffs.

(And as has been pointed out in other threads, Green has struggled in at least his last 4 playoff appearances, shooting 34%, 25%, 33%, and 34% from 3 in those years.)

2019-20 stats:

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Danny+Green&player_id1_select=Danny+Green&player_id1=greenda02&idx=bbr__players&p1yrfrom=2020&player_id2_hint=Wesley+Matthews&player_id2_select=Wesley+Matthews&player_id2=matthwe02&idx=bbr__players&p2yrfrom=2020

Highlights:

Regular Season 3p %: Matthews 36.4%, Green 36.7%
Regular Season OBPM/DBPM/BPM: Matthews -2.6/.7/-1.8, Green -1.5, .5, 1.1
Regular Season TS%: Matthews .55, Green .55

Playoffs 3p%: Matthews 39.5%, Green 33.9%
Playoffs OBPM/DBPM/BPM: Matthews -1.6/1.7/.2, Green -1.2/.5/-.7
Playoffs TS%: Matthews .596, Green .473

I think it's fair to say that in swapping Green for Matthews, the Lakers got essentially the same player, but saved $11.5mil.

OTOH, Wes has never been in a situation where fans send his family death threats if he has a bad game. So maybe he gets rattled.

Green at his peak was better than Matthews, but he has a lot of mileage on him. He played like ass in the playoffs. Matthews is a big step above the level that Green was at in the playoffs. Better shooter and better at defending guards, about equal at defending wings like Butler.

I don't know that you can really give Matthews the edge in functional mileage. He's older and has a worse injury history. And I feel like people are placing a lot of weight on a very small sample in the playoffs for Matthews. It's entirely possible that Green was used-up, particularly by the end of a long, grueling playoff run. But the apparent improvements in Matthew's play in the playoffs are much more likely to be random/opponent effects than a reproducible extra playoff gear.

He played at basically the same level in the playoffs as he did in the regular season, it's just that he brought a little more intensity on the defensive side and we used him to match up against Butler a lot.

[NYG]

So are the Knicks just going to operate under the cap until the trade deadline?

[SmartWentCrazy]

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Indy’s max offer was allegedly Turner, Lamb, and a 1st*, or Turner/McDermott, but Ainge thought he could finagle a second starter out of it and was surprised by Charlotte jumping in.


* JMichael reported specifically Turner, rotation player and a 1st, and I’m putting this together from the other Indy reporting as well that the standing offer was Myles/Doug. Also, reports that Simon was willing to pay the tax for Hayward.

Hell, it might have even been Turner/McDermott/1st.

We’ve had multiple reporters [Indy based, Boston based and National based] talk about the packages for this trade and this is the first one to come out and mention the involvement of a FRP. Color me skeptical.

[SmartWentCrazy]

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Indy’s max offer was allegedly Turner, Lamb, and a 1st*, or Turner/McDermott, but Ainge thought he could finagle a second starter out of it and was surprised by Charlotte jumping in.


* JMichael reported specifically Turner, rotation player and a 1st, and I’m putting this together from the other Indy reporting as well that the standing offer was Myles/Doug. Also, reports that Simon was willing to pay the tax for Hayward.

Every year Ainge does something absolutely obnoxious. Honestly he should have taken this, it's way too much.

Rumors are funny— Boston leaks something and its ‘there Ainge goes with his self serving leaks again’. Meanwhile, Indy leaks something completely self serving and its ‘Hah! Ainge is an idiot!’

[Resistance]

Could still operate as over the cap with no cap space and the full MLE and BAE if they so choose, too.

Yes and I have been experimenting with Sacramento trades today as both a cap space team and as an over the cap team in taking salary from Charlotte and generating a TPE for Boston.

When saw the mention of Sacramento and remaining cap space, I already had most of the numbers readily available. Stuck in Whiteside and a two year veteran minimum salary then did a headcount to see how many minimum salary cap holds were needed to bring the roster to 12.

I always appreciate the work you put into your posts. Thanks!

I am skeptical about some of the stuff that I see posted in this Forum, so I investigate to clear the fog. Since I have already done the work on salaries and/or CBA FAQ stuff, just have to copy and paste to share with others that might also have doubts about what they see in this Forum.