Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 4.0

[doctor him]

For all the people who were waiting for the discounted Ben Simmons deal, they always needed to understand that you can’t win this kind of war if you have 4 years left on your deal.

The “let’s package all of the stuff we don’t want and get a top 30 player” type of deal was never going to happen.

Simmons will be elsewhere soon enough, but the leverage on when and where always sat in the Sixers front office.

I’d love to be a fly on the wall in Camden when he slinks back into the practice facility.


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I mean there's a middle ground here. Ben can't be traded for pennies on the dollar but your assertion that PHI holds all the cards here and tons of leverage is delusional.

The Sixers hold all the cards when it comes to Simmons and his camp. If he wants to get paid, he's going to have to fall in line with whatever the Sixers need him to do for as long as he's here. He can't "dog it" or be outwardly disruptive because he not only doesn't have that kind of clout, he also doesn't have anyone (players, league office, media, fans, etc...) waving the flag for him. He's on an island and that's all his own making.

Now...with respect to the rest of the league...it is as it's always been. Ben is an asset as a top 30 level player with some glaring flaws and issues that shade that value to a degree. The Sixers should (and will) get something good back for him and likely that/those piece(s) fit better on the offensive end. Defensively, Simmons is so incredibly disruptive and versatile that nothing will offset his loss there.

A deal will be made and I'm guessing it'll be a "win-win" for both teams. The team acquiring Simmons will increase their talent level, and the Sixers will get better fit(s) on the roster without taking a huge hit in talent.

[doctor him]

If weren't for the Ben Simmons situation, I wonder how much more heat would be on Kyrie right now?

Probably not much more. New York media market still cuts through everything.

Kyrie has pulled this kind of stuff before and frankly I'm wondering if he doesn't just do it for attention.

He'll be there eventually, and even if he misses a handful of regular season home games it won't impact the Nets all that much. Their season doesn't really begin until April/May.

[Roy The Natural]

For all the people who were waiting for the discounted Ben Simmons deal, they always needed to understand that you can’t win this kind of war if you have 4 years left on your deal.

The “let’s package all of the stuff we don’t want and get a top 30 player” type of deal was never going to happen.

Simmons will be elsewhere soon enough, but the leverage on when and where always sat in the Sixers front office.

I’d love to be a fly on the wall in Camden when he slinks back into the practice facility.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I mean there's a middle ground here. Ben can't be traded for pennies on the dollar but your assertion that PHI holds all the cards here and tons of leverage is delusional.

The Sixers hold all the cards when it comes to Simmons and his camp. If he wants to get paid, he's going to have to fall in line with whatever the Sixers need him to do for as long as he's here. He can't "dog it" or be outwardly disruptive because he not only doesn't have that kind of clout, he also doesn't have anyone (players, league office, media, fans, etc...) waving the flag for him. He's on an island and that's all his own making.

Now...with respect to the rest of the league...it is as it's always been. Ben is an asset as a top 30 level player with some glaring flaws and issues that shade that value to a degree. The Sixers should (and will) get something good back for him and likely that/those piece(s) fit better on the offensive end. Defensively, Simmons is so incredibly disruptive and versatile that nothing will offset his loss there.

A deal will be made and I'm guessing it'll be a "win-win" for both teams. The team acquiring Simmons will increase their talent level, and the Sixers will get better fit(s) on the roster without taking a huge hit in talent.

76ers can't suspend him for not playing well. He's fully capable of "dogging it" and getting paid. Whether he will or not is another story altogether. He could also refuse to play "team ball" and still get paid. Just go out there and do his own thing.

[doctor him]

76ers can't suspend him for not playing well. He's fully capable of "dogging it" and getting paid. Whether he will or not is another story altogether. He could also refuse to play "team ball" and still get paid. Just go out there and do his own thing.

No. He's not able to go out and "dog it".

He doesn't have Harden or AD leverage.

1. He has 4 years on his contract.
2. He hasn't proven as much as either player.
3. He's supposed to be coming into the prime of his career now.

So let's suppose he were to "jake" it for the first half of the season. How exactly does that help him and how does that impact his standing in the game? What does that do to his legacy and how exactly would that increase his leverage?

It makes no sense for him to do anything other than play.

Now...he won't be a happy camper and I'm sure that would/will impact his performance.

But when Ben came in last night (without anyone knowing he was coming INCLUDING Klutch), that tells you that he's breaking away from the strategy that was employed by Klutch.

Rich P. and the guys thought they'd put a gun to the Sixers head and force a trade. They leaked all sorts of stuff and had their media mouthpieces try so very very hard to spin the story.

(Remember when Maxey was going to be leaving with Simmons a month ago?)

In the end, Simmons will be elsewhere and that'll be for the best. But there's no chance - none whatsoever of him pulling some kind of powerplay now. He (and especially Klutch) lost.

[Texas Chuck]

He absolutely can dog it. I don't personally think he will, but of course he can. He can invent minor injuries as well. I don't think he will, but of course he can.

Right now all we know for sure is he likes money. And so he's back. And despite the narrative that he doesn't care/doesn't try I think he's probably a pretty competitive and proud dude. Remember this isn't a guy with just overwhelming skill who can coast through games dominating them. It's ironic that the very parts of his game that get him the most criticized are what hurts their other favorite narrative--he doesn't care. When you make your way largely through defensive effort....

But obviously he can take a very passive aggressive approach back in Philly and we have to acknowledge that possibility.

[Roy The Natural]

76ers can't suspend him for not playing well. He's fully capable of "dogging it" and getting paid. Whether he will or not is another story altogether. He could also refuse to play "team ball" and still get paid. Just go out there and do his own thing.

No. He's not able to go out and "dog it".

He doesn't have Harden or AD leverage.

1. He has 4 years on his contract.
2. He hasn't proven as much as either player.
3. He's supposed to be coming into the prime of his career now.

So let's suppose he were to "jake" it for the first half of the season. How exactly does that help him and how does that impact his standing in the game? What does that do to his legacy and how exactly would that increase his leverage?

It makes no sense for him to do anything other than play.

Now...he won't be a happy camper and I'm sure that would/will impact his performance.

But when Ben came in last night (without anyone knowing he was coming INCLUDING Klutch), that tells you that he's breaking away from the strategy that was employed by Klutch.

Rich P. and the guys thought they'd put a gun to the Sixers head and force a trade. They leaked all sorts of stuff and had their media mouthpieces try so very very hard to spin the story.

(Remember when Maxey was going to be leaving with Simmons a month ago?)

In the end, Simmons will be elsewhere and that'll be for the best. But there's no chance - none whatsoever of him pulling some kind of powerplay now. He (and especially Klutch) lost.

He 100% can dog it. I'm not saying he will. However, given the situation currently, if he goes out there and plays in a general malaise and generally not well. Falls asleep off ball... Dies on screens... Gives up the ball on offense without doing anything . There's not much the NBA or the 76ers can do.

They can try and suspend him for not giving max effort. But I can see that getting smashed in arbitration very quickly. Hostile work environment, depression, anxiety, those words will get thrown around as an excuse. They're not going to be able to not pay him because he's not playing as well as last year.

[Scoot McGroot]

He absolutely can dog it. I don't personally think he will, but of course he can. He can invent minor injuries as well. I don't think he will, but of course he can.

Right now all we know for sure is he likes money. And so he's back. And despite the narrative that he doesn't care/doesn't try I think he's probably a pretty competitive and proud dude. Remember this isn't a guy with just overwhelming skill who can coast through games dominating them. It's ironic that the very parts of his game that get him the most criticized are what hurts their other favorite narrative--he doesn't care. When you make your way largely through defensive effort....

But obviously he can take a very passive aggressive approach back in Philly and we have to acknowledge that possibility.

Yup. He essentially only has to be present to be paid, so he is. He doesn’t have to be a perfect employee who exemplifies hard work and the Sixers way. He doesn’t have to play All NBA basketball and profess he wants to stay a Sixers so the Sixers can get maximum value. He just has to be present.

The Sixers have full choice of whether tot keep him or where to trade him. But Ben has a lot of leverage he could exert in terms of legally forcing a move, too, just by making it uncomfortable or untenable.

[Texas Chuck]

I think everyone probably already heard, but Nets aren't letting Kyrie be a part-time player.

[parsnips33]

Seems like there is a non-zero chance Kyrie simply retires at this point. If so, man what a career

[VCfor3]

76ers can't suspend him for not playing well. He's fully capable of "dogging it" and getting paid. Whether he will or not is another story altogether. He could also refuse to play "team ball" and still get paid. Just go out there and do his own thing.

No. He's not able to go out and "dog it".

He doesn't have Harden or AD leverage.

1. He has 4 years on his contract.
2. He hasn't proven as much as either player.
3. He's supposed to be coming into the prime of his career now.

So let's suppose he were to "jake" it for the first half of the season. How exactly does that help him and how does that impact his standing in the game? What does that do to his legacy and how exactly would that increase his leverage?

It makes no sense for him to do anything other than play.

Now...he won't be a happy camper and I'm sure that would/will impact his performance.

But when Ben came in last night (without anyone knowing he was coming INCLUDING Klutch), that tells you that he's breaking away from the strategy that was employed by Klutch.

Rich P. and the guys thought they'd put a gun to the Sixers head and force a trade. They leaked all sorts of stuff and had their media mouthpieces try so very very hard to spin the story.

(Remember when Maxey was going to be leaving with Simmons a month ago?)

In the end, Simmons will be elsewhere and that'll be for the best. But there's no chance - none whatsoever of him pulling some kind of powerplay now. He (and especially Klutch) lost.

If Ben is out there "dogging it", it definitely puts more pressure on the team to move him. Embiid's time is now. Philly isn't wasting years of his career holding onto Simmons just to make sure they extract what they deem fair value. If Simmons is hurting the team by being on the court, at some point it will force Philly's hand and get him moved. I think that will either be this season as a team unexpectedly struggles or at the latest next offseason, but either way Simmons definitely has some leverage by simply being a detriment to the team.

I don't expect him to take that route and think if he does play it will be him actually trying, but in the off chance he does dog it he certainly could be doing so with a valid plan in mind.

[bondom34]

If I had to guess, Simmons won't "dog it" in part because its not his personality, in part because it won't help him. I don't think Morey will rush into anything either way. So him slacking off would make it harder to trade him. His best play is to do his best, try to regain some trade value and get a better deal for Philly and Morey's more likely to move him if/when a star becomes available. Him slacking just reduces that probability greatly.

And if I'm honest the Sixers will be a fine regular season team as long as Embiid is healthy, Simmons isn't even their best player so he doesn't hold the same amount of power.

Saying all this first, I appreciate the Sixers for being semi-dysfunctional but doing it in the funniest way possible and I also know it won't happen but the funniest possible outcome is Simmons coming back, playing and deciding to actually shoot (not like in a hurting the team way but in a making real strides way) because of all things this pushed him.

[parsnips33]

If I had to guess, Simmons won't "dog it" in part because its not his personality, in part because it won't help him. I don't think Morey will rush into anything either way. So him slacking off would make it harder to trade him. His best play is to do his best, try to regain some trade value and get a better deal for Philly and Morey's more likely to move him if/when a star becomes available. Him slacking just reduces that probability greatly.

And if I'm honest the Sixers will be a fine regular season team as long as Embiid is healthy, Simmons isn't even their best player so he doesn't hold the same amount of power.

Saying all this first, I appreciate the Sixers for being semi-dysfunctional but doing it in the funniest way possible and I also know it won't happen but the funniest possible outcome is Simmons coming back, playing and deciding to actually shoot (not like in a hurting the team way but in a making real strides way) because of all things this pushed him.

This is actually funny to think about. If Simmons comes back and starts shooting a couple 3s a game, would 6ers fans see that as him sabotaging the team or finally doing what they've been begging for?

[MoneyTalks41890]

Kyrie is the one true wildcard with diverse and sometimes illogical motivations. I have him getting vaccinated as perhaps not the most likely outcome here.

[parsnips33]

Kyrie is the one true wildcard with diverse and sometimes illogical motivations. I have him getting vaccinated as perhaps not the most likely outcome here.

Say what you will about him, it does seem like he has priorities outside of the NBA or his "brand"

I felt pretty confident Wiggins would get the shot, with Kyrie I just don't know

[dukeknicksirish]

I like what the Raptors have in young pieces / projects. I wonder when they will make a move from Siakam . Go for smaller salaries/picks and build around VanFleet/Trent/OG/Barnes/Precious . If I were them, I would look at a contender that may have a need for Siakam to take the next step and that might have young prospects they aren't willing to wait for.

Golden State has Wiseman, Moody, Kuminga
Phoenix (if they wont pay him) has Ayton
Indiana has Turner
Atlanta has Okungwu , Reddish, etc

[babyjax13]

Kyrie to Philly just makes so much sense now, IMO

[Resistance]

I like what the Raptors have in young pieces / projects. I wonder when they will make a move from Siakam . Go for smaller salaries/picks and build around VanFleet/Trent/OG/Barnes/Precious . If I were them, I would look at a contender that may have a need for Siakam to take the next step and that might have young prospects they aren't willing to wait for.

Golden State has Wiseman, Moody, Kuminga
Phoenix (if they wont pay him) has Ayton
Indiana has Turner
Atlanta has Okungwu , Reddish, etc

Siakam has a large salary, so it could be more difficult to get a trade done during the season because of the rather hefty amount of salary the team trading for Siakam would need to send out.


Pascal Siakam $33,003,936

$33,003,936 - $100,000 = $32,903,936

$32,903,936 / 1.25 = $26,323,149


Go in the other direction to prove.

$26,323,149 * 1.25 = $32,903,936

$32,903,936 + $100,000 = $33,003,936

$26,323,149

[MoneyTalks41890]

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[Resistance]

THT is getting surgery for a torn ligament in his thumb and Ariza is out with his ankle.

So Doumbouya might get some minutes with the Lakers.

[BlazersBroncos]

I like what the Raptors have in young pieces / projects. I wonder when they will make a move from Siakam . Go for smaller salaries/picks and build around VanFleet/Trent/OG/Barnes/Precious . If I were them, I would look at a contender that may have a need for Siakam to take the next step and that might have young prospects they aren't willing to wait for.

Golden State has Wiseman, Moody, Kuminga
Phoenix (if they wont pay him) has Ayton
Indiana has Turner
Atlanta has Okungwu , Reddish, etc

I proposed OO, Reddish and Gallo for Pascal on the TOR board and they hated it.

My thinking is it gets them a potential long term 5 (Albeit they may see Precious as that guy now) and a defensive swing GF who compliments GTJ pretty well in Cam, not to mention a scoring PF that compliments Barnes game as well IMO.

I think they expect a star of blue chip level guy for Pascal. I dont see either being avaliable ATM.